If you go to a pet food store you should be able to find at least 5-6 different canned foods with NO by-products. I went through most of them while I was trying to find one our cats would like.
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What's so bad about by-products?
- Thread starter godiva
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Moggiegirl, I just wanted to make one statement about a part of your post. The fact that any meat in ANY pet food is USDA inspected means very little, as any food leaving the human food chain for the pet food industry is inspected. Everything. From the whole clean chicken breasts to any meat being turned into by-products, to any fruits and veggies, etc. It needs to be inspected and marked as unfit for human consumption, because of where it's intended to go (even if it is indeed exactly the same meat as you'd be served in a restaurant).
I had a lovely discussion with the president of Natura (who make Innova) about definitions and terms and how it's very tricky from the names written on the bag to determine a quality of any ingredient. He pointed this out as a trick often used to make people think an inferior product was better.
I had a lovely discussion with the president of Natura (who make Innova) about definitions and terms and how it's very tricky from the names written on the bag to determine a quality of any ingredient. He pointed this out as a trick often used to make people think an inferior product was better.
Moggiegirl knows what she is talking about. We talk about nutrition together all the time for years. She is pretty good at that.
The AAFCO standards of byproducts have changed, really.
The AAFCO standards of byproducts have changed, really.
I'm not doubting that moggiegirl knows any less than the rest of us! We just seem to have different knowledge when it comes to some things.Originally Posted by shengmei
Moggiegirl knows what she is talking about. We talk about nutrition together all the time for years. She is pretty good at that.
The AAFCO standards of byproducts have changed, really.
Shengmei, please, I'm interested to know if infact they have changed. Do you by any chance have the old standards so I can compare?
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Has anyone ever seen the episode of Dirty Jobs where he goes out to slop the pigs? If not, at the beginning there is basically a big heated tub full of garbage-- mostly food, sometimes not, including the styrofoam and plastic it came in, just like by-products in our cat food. Then they rake out the plastic bags and such, hoping they get it all but they don't. Then they cool it and scrape the various fats together that have floated to the top to sell them to cosmetics companies (yes, that is exactly what he said), and feed the rest of the mud-looking stuff to the pigs. Well, this is almost the same process of making byproducts for pet food. All the stuff they couldn't put on the market for humans is thrown together and cooked and denatured, styrofoam trays and plastic bags raked out, etc etc.
There are not people in the cat food factory patiently separating the bits of whole animal that come in, stripping of the meat and then carefully plucking the useable stuff and putting that in a different pile, to be used as by-product. If that is what was going on, then I would be all for it. Nobody is debating that organ meats, even gross stuff like cleaned intestines, are good for cats to eat, what I don't believe is that the mystery substance labelled "by-product" in our cats food is what some people seem to want to believe it is.
There are not people in the cat food factory patiently separating the bits of whole animal that come in, stripping of the meat and then carefully plucking the useable stuff and putting that in a different pile, to be used as by-product. If that is what was going on, then I would be all for it. Nobody is debating that organ meats, even gross stuff like cleaned intestines, are good for cats to eat, what I don't believe is that the mystery substance labelled "by-product" in our cats food is what some people seem to want to believe it is.
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I have seen the a more recent AFFCO manual and they have changed the definitions slightly... ie chn meal is meat only not meat and bone like some companies had ... I am looking for the newest addition to buy and get the real updated definitions... I do know a few higher end companies are moving away from saying by products at all in comparing ingrediants so I would think they may be changing again ...
I think sharky is correct. If memory serves me right blood, lymph system, hoofs, and the central nervous system are no longer allowed due to fears of mad cow disease and foot and mouth disease.
Hmm, interesting! Thanks for that info!
Unfortunatley, they're still made and processed the same way, which is practically worse than what went into them IMO. So not much change in my opinion regarding by-products until they stop that process, which isn't likely.
Unfortunatley, they're still made and processed the same way, which is practically worse than what went into them IMO. So not much change in my opinion regarding by-products until they stop that process, which isn't likely.
So if all this garbage is being put into cat food then why are the majority of cats living well into old age? If the food was toxic this would not be possible and we certainly wouldn't be seeing shiny, glossy coats, bright clear eyes and lots of energy. Rather pets would be getting sick by the millions. And considering the millions of dollars and years of research that they put into making pet food, I doubt they would ever want to make our pets sick. They would have so much to lose.
I think a lot of it is rumor, unless it's a cheap unknown brand. Could be from this country or another country, but perhaps a company with no long-standing reputation, one with no phone number on the label or package where you can ask the company questions about its product. That kind of company would have more to hide.
I think a lot of it is rumor, unless it's a cheap unknown brand. Could be from this country or another country, but perhaps a company with no long-standing reputation, one with no phone number on the label or package where you can ask the company questions about its product. That kind of company would have more to hide.
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The millions they spend researching pet food allows them to figure out how to make food that will keep cats reasonably healthy the cheapest way possible. Also, pets aren't as healthy as they could be, so many are obese, CRF, etc. Not enough people feed non-commercial pet foods to have any comparable differences. I do know that for the month Zissou was eating a food which has by-products as a first ingredient, she had less energy and she smelled terrible, had an oily coat, and was a little dehydrated. Within three days of switching back to a food with less by-product, she was perfectly healthy once again. And this is not an unknown brand with no phone number on the can.
I do not trust industry to do what is best for the consumer, because that isn't what they do. Big tobacco did a bunch of studies saying smoking was healthy for you too. Drug companies hide results of studies that show things wrong. The human meat industry packs their animals in feed lots and fills them with steroids and antibiotics and feeds herbivores meat. This is not better for humans. But as long as the people eating it are healthy enough to still eat it, they're not losing business.
I do not trust industry to do what is best for the consumer, because that isn't what they do. Big tobacco did a bunch of studies saying smoking was healthy for you too. Drug companies hide results of studies that show things wrong. The human meat industry packs their animals in feed lots and fills them with steroids and antibiotics and feeds herbivores meat. This is not better for humans. But as long as the people eating it are healthy enough to still eat it, they're not losing business.
I agree - kidney disease, bladder stones, tooth and gum diseases, obesity, diabetes, thyroid problems... all very common in older cats. Just like in humans, nutrition plays an role in ill health rather than causes it outright, so it's difficult to prove a link. Pet companies aren't altruistic organisations committed to enhancing our pets' health, they're out to make profit and most will produce as poor a product as they can get away with. If they use better ingredients then the price goes up and fewer people buy the product. The mass market is where the money's at and most mass market customers are too poorly educated re pet nutrition to even bother reading the labels.
The term by-products is too vague for my liking. I'm too worried that there will be stuff from diseased animals in there etc. to trust it. I don't have any problem with organ meat and yukky stuff like intestines etc. in principle as I know those are things an animal would eat if it caught it's own food. But when it's 'caught' by someone else then processed and packaged so that it doesn't resemble it's contents I err on the side of caution.
DITTO
Follow the money.
The quality of life is about as important as the length of life.
Because of forums like this, and the "brainstorming" that happens, we all can be better informed, try to do the best that we can with the information that we've gained, and always question "status quo"....even the companies that have the healthier food may "slide" into something less if we, the consumer, get complacent and don't challenge them, too.
These companies, if you ask them if they use diseased meat they will deny it and say that they don't. The Iams company told me that they do not use diseased meat and that their standards for the meat and ingredients that they use in their foods mirror human standards. Can they legally lie to us over the phone in customer service?
I know generally in the workplace you cannot give wrong information to a customer in the business world.
I know generally in the workplace you cannot give wrong information to a customer in the business world.
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Do you honestly believe everything somebody tells you just because they work there? I don't know if they are truly lying, just ignorant, or possibly telling the truth about diseased meat. I do know that if they buy their by-products from someone they don't really know what's actually in there. I also know that when you work in customer service your job is to make the company look good.
If it is an outright lie (and probably any company you called would say the same thing, not just Iams) it is not uncommon. I've been told to lie to customers as a policy. I'm a campus tour guide right now, and I know that there is another school in Ohio that consistently lies on the tour about freshman dorms. Many businesses wouldn't make any money if they didn't lie to you.
And anyway, just because it isn't diseased doesn't make it any better.
If it is an outright lie (and probably any company you called would say the same thing, not just Iams) it is not uncommon. I've been told to lie to customers as a policy. I'm a campus tour guide right now, and I know that there is another school in Ohio that consistently lies on the tour about freshman dorms. Many businesses wouldn't make any money if they didn't lie to you.
And anyway, just because it isn't diseased doesn't make it any better.
I'm comfortable with what I'm feeding. I trust the company. They've been around for a long time. Cats have done well on their foods so lets agree to disagree.
As a geneticist, I believe that kidney diseases are due to aging and the lack of clean water in the environment rather than substrates in the food.
Cats in wild only live about six years. Nowadays they can live well into their 20s.
Cats in wild only live about six years. Nowadays they can live well into their 20s.
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Like I said before, I feed the same food you do. I just wish you could provide some back-up to your argument that by-products are healthy besides simply retelling what the pet food companies have told you. I'd be interested if you could.
You feed Drs. Foster and Smith? WOW. I thought I am the only one on this forum.
When I was working, I worked at a few different 'reputable' places, places that have been around for decades and are doing a booming business.
All three offered lunch type foods for the working crowd on the go, two had hotdogs as well.
When questioned about the food freshness, we were told to ALWAYS tell the customer what they wanted to hear.
"Yes, we make those sandwhiches fresh each morning"
"Yes those hotdogs were just put on the grill 30 minutes ago"
You see the point I'm getting at?
Businesses are just that, businesses, they are NEVER, without a court order, going to tell you, the customer, ANYHTHING that may jeopardize their business with you.
