Vaccinations

[xocats]

I am sure that in many cases, people want to do their own vax for financial reasons.
But also I think that it is important to keep in mind---
in some some cases, people sometimes consider giving their own vax because they live in a rural or isolated area & taking a lot of animals to a vet to be checked & inoculated would be extremity difficult.

Because inoculating animals ourselves may be dangerous to their health, a farm/ranch vet might be an option for those people.
One of my daughters has a ranch with horses, cats, dogs, goats and other assorted animals.
A vet, who specializes in ranch animals, does their inoculations and check-ups.
If one of their cats or dogs, become ill, they are taken to a small animal vet in town.

Because pet care is expensive, it must be included in our budgets, including how to pay for emergencies, which always happen at the most inconvenient times.
That seems to be a universal law.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge about this critical subject MA.

 

[shorty14788]

Hissy is right about the Merial Vaccines. Merial does NOT make a 4 in 1 plus FeLV. They have recently (within the past couple of YEARS) come out with a new needless system for the delivery of the FeLV vaccine. Its called the "vetjet" . It delivers the vaccine with pressurized air. It also requires a MUCH smaller amount of the vaccine to be given. Its probally the safest FeLV vaccine out there.

I would NOT buy the vaccines you saw for sale. Like I said, I do not believe Merial sells its vaccines to anyone other then licensed vet. Mostly because there is no way for them to garantee (spelling?) the product unless it is administered by the vet.

Hissy has the best suggestion, in my opinion. We have had several people who are "breeders" (mostly dogs) come into our clinic claiming they home vaccinated, only to find out their puppies have parvo,or distemper because the vaccine didn't work. MANY vets are willing to make house calls (most for an extra fee).

Lastly, the reason cats who go outside, or in screened-in enclosures should be vaccined for FeLV is that FeLV is MUCH, MUCH more easy transmitted then FIV. For FIV to be spread, the uninfected cat must come into contact with the infected cats blood. Which can be difficult if your cats are in a screened in enclosure. FeLV on the other hand, can be transmitted through saliva. Cats hissing at one other, sharing the same water bowl, or any other contact with the infected cats bodily fluids can infect your cats.

This is why I NEVER take in a stray cat without first taking it for at LEAST and FIV/FeLV test. These diseases are a HORRIBLE way for a cat to go. I have seen the end result too many times. If any of my cats went outside (all of mine have to many issues as it is) I would rather vaccinate them and risk the 1 in thousands chance of them getting a fibrosarcoma then to have them get one of these diseases. As long as you vaccinate in the leg, you can amputate the leg if a fibrosarcoma should occur. There is NO cure or treatment for FIV/FeLV. I think its the better of two evils.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by xocats

I am sure that in many cases, people want to do their own vax for financial reasons.
But also I think that it is important to keep in mind---
in some some cases, people sometimes consider giving their own vax because they live in a rural or isolated area & taking a lot of animals to a vet to be checked & inoculated would be extremity difficult.

Because inoculating animals ourselves may be dangerous to their health, a farm/ranch vet might be an option for those people.
One of my daughters has a ranch with horses, cats, dogs, goats and other assorted animals.
A vet, who specializes in ranch animals, does their inoculations and check-ups.
If one of their cats or dogs, become ill, they are taken to a small animal vet in town.

Because pet care is expensive, it must be included in our budgets, including how to pay for emergencies, which always happen at the most inconvenient times.
That seems to be a universal law.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge about this critical subject MA.

Most farmers and ranchers arent from my experience going online or to a farm store for there vax ... they often get them froma vet who has shown them how to use them

 

[jcribbs]

ok... this is wonderful advice and I very much appreciate all the information. It has been very very helpful!! I partially took your advise Hissy and purchased my shots from the vet. Eight of them. They are core shots only. No leuk, no mixing of anything and no update on rabies at this time.. These particular cats were seen by the vet approx a month ago when they were fixed but their shots weren't given at that time. I gave the shots today here at home and it went without a hitch..... MY personal vet showed me how to administer the shots and I did it the way he told me. I have been at his office a lot the last couple of days with another cat of mine.

I guess the only good thing about being sick for 4 years was learning to to give yourself shots.

I appreciate all the advice. I realize you are against someone giving their own shots but I got them from the vet at a reputable place and the cats were seen by a vet very recently. I also have a chart of all their shots and when were given with by whom and what brand.. We had no adverse reactions.

My vet also told me in all his years of practice he has never seen one sarcoma related to a single vaccination in 20 years. He said the info and hype on the net makes it sound like it is occuring all the time. He said it is extremely rare. He said the companies like Purevax are preying on the fears of the public which is wrong.

Once again thanks,
Jenn

p.s. I grew up on a farm. My dad always gave our animals their shots...He grew up on a farm too where his family did the same. But when I was a kid if our horses got sick, we called a vet out. But not for the shots. I had just never thought about a farm visit for cats however...

If one ever get sick, I haul them to the vet. Thank god, never more than one has ever been sick. And only three have ever been sick period in the last few years. JJ, Toe and Yellow.

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by jcribbs

My vet also told me in all his years of practice he has never seen one sarcoma related to a single vaccination in 20 years. He said the info and hype on the net makes it sound like it is occuring all the time. He said it is extremely rare. He said the companies like Purevax are preying on the fears of the public which is wrong.

Jenn, I am in no way directing this at you, so please ... don't take this personally. But for those people who have lost a VAS-positive cat, what your vet said is such a rude slap in the face. It DOES happen, it's ISN'T as rare as your vet wants you to think it is, and the pharmacutical companies aren't preying on the public's fears, they are conspiring to hide the evidence, IMO.

That all now being said, I am glad your kitties are all taken care of and that you are comfortable with how it was handled. You did your homework and made the decision that worked best for your individual set of circumstances based on sound knowledge of both sides of the story. Good on you, Girl!

 

[jcribbs]

Peoples knowledge and statements they make are usually based only on their own experiences.... I believe that's what my vet meant when he said that.. His opinion was based on his own experiences in the last 20 yrs. And I take nothing personal.. Don't worry about it...

And I am truely sorry for the loss of your cat... Or were you speaking in a general sense???

I am confused by your post.

And yes, I do feel comfortable in my decision concerning the vax...

Jenn

This is an interesting link....
http://www.dvmvac.org/sarcomas.asp

 

[shorty14788]

Vaccine related sarcomas are not common but they do occur. I have worked at a Vet's office as a veterinary assistant for almost 2 years now. I have seen 3 cases of VAS. All of the cats were vaccinated between the sholders (they were all about 7 years old so they were vaccinated there before the newer vaccine protocols were in place) and all of them had to be put to sleep. Mostly because the owners waited to long to bring them in.
VAS occurs in ABOUT 1 in 10,000. Research is still being done on it so this is a rough figure. It sounds about right though. Were I work has over 10,500 clients most of which have more then one animal. So for me to seen three of them in a little less then two years works out to about that.

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by jcribbs

Peoples knowledge and statements they make are usually based only on their own experiences.... I believe that's what my vet meant when he said that.. His opinion was based on his own experiences in the last 20 yrs. And I take nothing personal.. Don't worry about it...

And I am truely sorry for the loss of your cat... Or were you speaking in a general sense???

I am confused by your post.

And yes, I do feel comfortable in my decision concerning the vax...

This is an interesting link....
http://www.dvmvac.org/sarcomas.asp

No, I haven't lost a cat due to VAS, but I know several people who have.

Thanks for the link.

 

[hissy]

I am not against you self-vaccinating because you made the wise decision and consulted your vet first. I am leery of any vaccine that can be bought over the internet from a less that reliable source because of all that can go wrong with that scenario. I understand that taking semi-feral cats into the vet for routine vaccinations can cause a lot of problems, which is why I am thankful my vet makes a farm call when needed. You do what you can to keep your cats safe by using your head and not cutting corners when it comes to their health.

 

[jcribbs]

I am not against you self-vaccinating because you made the wise decision and consulted your vet first. I am leery of any vaccine that can be bought over the internet from a less that reliable source because of all that can go wrong with that scenario. I understand that taking semi-feral cats into the vet for routine vaccinations can cause a lot of problems, which is why I am thankful my vet makes a farm call when needed. You do what you can to keep your cats safe by using your head and not cutting corners when it comes to their health.

amen to the above......... And I might add I feel 100 percent about the shots because they did come from the vet. That was a wonderful suggestion. I am saving the bottles and have them marked as to what cat received which dose and on what date.

I am also firm believer in rather being safe than sorry. But I would rather risk a sarcoma than not give a shot and risk the disease. There is a much greater chance of a disease from not vaccinating than getting a sarcoma with vax. From a personal standpoint, I think if you have a cat that never comes into contact with another cat and NEVER goes outside, maybe they could choose not to vaccinate but on the other hand, that cat does go to the vet and comes into contact with other animals there. We aren't in a sterile world and there is no way we can make it one. I or my vet will always vaccinate. And I will always follow the protocol as to where the shots need to be given based on the knowledge that we have now. I would hate to have a colony of three legged cats but when the alternative is death sometimes there is no choice. I do my best to keep them healthy and will continue to do so.

And for anyone interested, I'm been searching around and found [finally] a round table discussion with the members of the Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force. It was written in June 2005. There might be updates on it but basically what I got out of it was that the sarcomas were more related to inflammation and not due to the shot themselves. And it is believed that this inflammation is more due to the aluminum adjuvant that was was introduced in vaccines in the 80's. That is when the increase in sarcomas first began being noticed. They believe there is a link to that. And ....... this was when killed virus first begin being used in vaccines as well.... Everyone can think what they want .....

But anyway, this is a great article here... Really great. But it is long.
http://www.avma.org/journals/javma/a...stf_050601.asp

 

[littleraven7726]

my vet clinic only gives the Purevax Rabies vaccine. they told me when i asked about the 3-yr one (because before we moved across state lines my guys got the 3-yr rabies shot) that they had seen too many problems with the 3-yr shot. by that i figured they meant VAS and reactions.

raven and nabu have allergic reactions to the distemper shot, and are due for it this year. they usually have to have a antihistamine before they get it. actually all 3 of my guys are due for distemper vax this year. i will have to ask the clinic when i call to set up stimpy's appointment about the purevax distemper shot. i didn't even know they made one before i read this thread. so thanks guys.

 

[jcribbs]

That's wonderful!!! That's what this place is all about......

 

[booktigger]

I am glad you managed to find a good solution Jenn. In response to vets saying they haven't seen certain things, the locum vet at my practice said she had never seen really serious side effects from the FeLV jab, yet I know 2 rescue people in different areas who have both seen it, so I do wonder if they are saying that to reassure you and get you to do it.

 

[jcribbs]

You could be right....... It's just hard to know sometimes. And you are probably right.

I will probably look into some form of a leuk vaccine but I want to be extremely careful. I am going to research a little before I buy anything.

I seriously doubt I will do a revax of the rabies however. They have all had it once... They are not loose so the chance of them getting bit by a rabid animal are nearly nil.

But the leuk is a different story. There is one loose cat in our area. He is fat so probably not a stray and he sits in our yard teasing our cats. we have seen him a couple times but yesterday Yellow was all bristled up wanting to kick butt through the enclosure wire. So I think a leuk shot is in order in case they touch noses.

 

[yosemite]

Our vet won't do the 3 year rabies shot - she says she thinks it's too much vaccine at one time.

 

[xocats]

My kitties don't get the Rabies vax because they had a bad reaction to it the first time but....
they are indoor only babies.
We do have rabies in our geographical area.

In some areas it is the law that they must have it.
Fortunately for my kitties... it not required were I live.

I don't know what kind of rabies vax was given, when they had their bad reaction.

 

[jcribbs]

It would have to be pretty strong to work for three years. I had an animal control officer where we live tell me that the "regular rabies shot" lasts three years.....

I am on a worming day right now. At the same time I bought their shots, I got worm meds for all the cats. some take 1, some take 1.5 and some take 2..

Good lord, it's a job... I am doing all 24 at one time. today and tomorrow. I have wormed 11 so far.

The vet would never have been able to do this I don't think. One cat will have to eat it in his food....

Then all will be done for a while as far as meds..... thank goodness... the ones that are the tamest give me the hardest time. And I don't mean they literaly fight me or try to scratch me. They just try harder to get away... The more feral ones don't fight me or try to get away. Believe it or not, they are more docile when I have them in my hands.

 

[jcribbs]

I just reread what I wrote in the last post. boy oh boy.........that was before I tried Star...... I still don't have her wormed. Juan and I both have kitty scratches.....and he had gloves on.

She has "allowed" me to brush her since we scared her to death. We will try her again in a few days. She is a booger.....

 

[fantastic feral]

I  want  to  buy  on line  vaccines  for  my  feral  cats  too. One  place where  I  have  them fixed offers  just  spay/neuter  surgery  and  rabies.  The other  place let care takers buy  FeLv test  ( $ 10 ) and    FVRCP and chlamydia  for  $8.  I  would  prefer  to administer myself MLV  vaccine without  chlamydia  to which  cats  have often adverse  reaction. Also chlamydia  is killed vaccine and  probably  need buster. Not  possible  with  most  of  feral  cats. The easy  nasal vaccine  does  not  protect  enough against  deadly pan-leukemia some vets say..  But it  is  sold  out  everywhere, so it must be popular.  Any  experience ?

 I  do not  have  link to  this  side , so here is copy : 

Distemper and Respiratory Virus Vaccines (FVRCP) Protocol for Feral Cats
Are Vaccines Worth It?*   By Christine Wilford, DVM
There are two basic types of FVRCP vaccines: killed virus (KV) and modified live virus (MLV). To get immunity from killed virus vaccines, at least two doses are required.  KV vaccines prime the immune system for creating protective immunity after a subsequent booster. The first dose shows the body the enemy and a second dose is given to generate protective immunity. Paired doses are required 3-5 weeks apart. Using killed virus vaccines for free-roaming cats is clearly undesirable, because giving boosters is impractical.
On the other hand, MLV vaccines begin stimulating immunity the first day they are given. The vaccine contains viruses that replicate in the cat’s body but do not cause disease. A booster 3-4 weeks later is never required nor recommended in cats over 14 weeks of age. Another benefit is that vaccinated cats can shed attenuated vaccine virus particles in the feces. These viruses do no harm, and actually stimulate immunity in other cats/kittens coming in contact with the feces. This is potentially valuable in colonies of free-roaming cats.
The only caution with MLV vaccines is hygiene. If the vaccine accidentally gets ON the cat instead of IN the cat, then it may cause some mildly runny eyes of mild sneezing. Vaccine virus cannot cause symptoms of distemper. MLV vaccine that gets topical should be cleaned off with a swab of alcohol.
Kittens under 14 weeks of age have varying levels of immunity from antibodies passed from their mother. Early in kittenhood, antibody levels are highest. As the weeks pass, antibodies gradually decline. For several weeks, antibody levels drop too low to protect from disease but remain too high to allow a vaccine to work. The antibodies “fight off” the vaccine. Known as the "critical period" or "vulnerable period" between 6-12 weeks, this stage of uncertainty is why tame kittens are vaccinated every 3-4 weeks until after 14 weeks of age. Vaccines given at the earliest point where the body can respond shortens the period that the kittens are vulnerable to diseases. By 14 weeks of age, the mother’s antibodies wear off enough to allow the vaccine to work. Therefore, any normal kitten over 14 weeks can receive one MLV vaccine and not need a booster.
So when considering vaccines, MLV vaccines can be effective with one injection.

   Also  MLV  vaccines have  less  VAS  vaccines  associated   sarcomas.

 

[floridakitty]

I just posted a question regarding HESKA Intranasal vaccine that I intend to use on my rescued kittens and cats.

Learned some information here and wanted to leave my feedback regarding the argument that vaccinating at a vet is safer.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Your vet might have ordered the vaccine from the same place you are ordering it from and since they are running a business if someone forgets to refrigerate the package - for instance a vet tech that is busy or not paying attention - vaccines will go bad but they won't discard them because it costs them money.
I question pretty much everyone and everything lately based on my recent experiences with how incompetent people can be in their line of work and the same pertains to veterinarian offices. Where I live vet care is extremely expensive and we have the highest euthanasia rates of stray and feral cats in the country, so I am fighting to save as many lives as I possibly can and the budget is always thin.

By going to the vet I am paying for services that I can absolutely do at home with the same accuracy (weighing, temperature, general exam) as any vet or vet tech and I don't see ANY reason whatsoever why I should trust someone else to vaccinate my rescued kittens because I have no idea where THEIR vaccines came from.

At least at home I can control what happens and pay attention and I KNOW EXACTLY what medicines I have in stock, where I keep them and their expiration date.

With HESKA - I just would like to know what happens if I spill some of that vaccine on a kitten and I see that the majority of the responses say that it will NOT cause them to catch the actual disease, which was my only concern.

I think when it comes to your own pets then one should look for the vet they trust (I haven't found one yet) and stick to annual check ups and ferals. And rabies of course.
But routine matters can be handled at home if you dedicate some time to do your own research instead of blindly trusting a vet, that might not know enough or not care.

And FINALLY: why every time I bring my cats to ANY VET I have to bring thermometer covers because they just stick the same instrument in every animals rectum and I am not exactly sure if they disinfected it well enough to use on my cat.
Every time I do that they kind of give me an attitude but isn't it COMMON SENSE?...

I have dealt with parasites enough in my life and do my best to protect my cats from catching anything from my rescued kittens and I am pretty pissed when such a simple sanitary precaution is being ignored routinely in EVERY vet office I have been to so far...

If they don't have enough brain to use disposable covers for their thermometers - I do not feel like trusting their opinion on ANYTHING ELSE.

am I the only one who is bothered by this issue?.. I mean using disposable thermometer covers?...

This is the exact reason why I STAY AWAY from vet offices unless my kitties need a fecal, blood work, X-Ray or something that I cannot do. But if there is an option of doing it myself - I am in.

Sorry for ranting but It's been really hard experience for me taking kittens to 3 vets and NONE was able to diagnose scabies. I did it myself by using a magnifying glass and chose to give Revolution to 5 week olds - it resolved... I wasted about $250 on vets though .... So maybe it is just my luck but damn - incompetence of people responsible for saving animals lives gets me so so mad!....