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Vaccinations - Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter thevegancuddler
- Start Date
Well, go figure! Rhys had his rabies shot 2 weeks ago, and l took him back today for his 18 month URI booster,
Our vet asked if l wanted it. She said she would give it if l wanted it, but that she was not going to "recommend" it since my pets are all indoor only.
So we didn't get it.
l picked up some Cosequin and we talked about the plan for my pets' health, Rhys' inevitable cartilage/arthritis issues with age since he's a Fold - how to monitor and manage that, homemade diet, supplements, etc. l was there for 20 minutes, and she only charged me for the Cosequin!! l love this vet hospital, l wish l lived closer.
Our vet asked if l wanted it. She said she would give it if l wanted it, but that she was not going to "recommend" it since my pets are all indoor only.
So we didn't get it.
l picked up some Cosequin and we talked about the plan for my pets' health, Rhys' inevitable cartilage/arthritis issues with age since he's a Fold - how to monitor and manage that, homemade diet, supplements, etc. l was there for 20 minutes, and she only charged me for the Cosequin!! l love this vet hospital, l wish l lived closer.
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Ive always gotten all of my animals' annual shots. I took a CNA class last year and passed. I also started work at a vet's office August this year. I am a vet assistant so I work 1-on-1 with the docotor on sick dogs and cats. Therefore I am a greater carrier of animal viruses than I was before I started work here.
We can all be carriers of viruses without our own knowledge. If you own a cat that isnt vaccinated and take your dog to the dog park and socialize it with another owner's dog, that other dog could be carrying a virus and not even know it. Lets say this stranger you just met and had your dog socialize with and with their dog also owns a sick cat back at their home whom isn't vaccinated. He doesn't mention his cat bc yall are talking about how well your dogs get along, etc. So when you come home after about a week (a virus takes about 3 days to a week to settle in a body system) your cat is terribly sick and you can't figure out why. You take him to your vet and the doc questions where your cat had been. But you claim he's an indoor only cat so its impossible how he could even get sick. So he asks about where you went with your dog and you explain. Then the doc explains what I just said.
Household cleaners, airwick plug ins, preservatives, etc cause health problems. Not these vaccines. These vaccines have a killed virus in them so when your pet is injected with it your pet's memory cells take note of what type of virus it is and remember so they can better fight it off if it comes in contact with the live virus.
If you work at an office, & someone has a sick animal at home, they can carry the virus on their hands or clothing. When they hug you or pass you a pen bc you lost yours-anything that involves touching-you also become that carrier without realizing. We all have the right to refuse any healthcare. So its all up to the owner's decision
We can all be carriers of viruses without our own knowledge. If you own a cat that isnt vaccinated and take your dog to the dog park and socialize it with another owner's dog, that other dog could be carrying a virus and not even know it. Lets say this stranger you just met and had your dog socialize with and with their dog also owns a sick cat back at their home whom isn't vaccinated. He doesn't mention his cat bc yall are talking about how well your dogs get along, etc. So when you come home after about a week (a virus takes about 3 days to a week to settle in a body system) your cat is terribly sick and you can't figure out why. You take him to your vet and the doc questions where your cat had been. But you claim he's an indoor only cat so its impossible how he could even get sick. So he asks about where you went with your dog and you explain. Then the doc explains what I just said.
Household cleaners, airwick plug ins, preservatives, etc cause health problems. Not these vaccines. These vaccines have a killed virus in them so when your pet is injected with it your pet's memory cells take note of what type of virus it is and remember so they can better fight it off if it comes in contact with the live virus.
If you work at an office, & someone has a sick animal at home, they can carry the virus on their hands or clothing. When they hug you or pass you a pen bc you lost yours-anything that involves touching-you also become that carrier without realizing. We all have the right to refuse any healthcare. So its all up to the owner's decision
The current AVMA recommendations for core vaccines are "no more often than once every 3 years" after the kitten series. That means they have been definitively proven to confer immunity for at least that long. Any vet still giving annual vaccines isn't even keeping up with his/her own association's recommendations 
.
Even if someone believes wholeheartedly in the safety and efficacy of vaccines, giving them too often is at least pointless and at worst harmful. There is no reason cat vaccines need to be given annually when they confer immunity for far longer. Humans are supposed to get boosters, I think, every 10 years for the usual things like DTaP and MMR. What makes anyone think cat vaccines need to be given more often than human vaccines? :dk:
.Even if someone believes wholeheartedly in the safety and efficacy of vaccines, giving them too often is at least pointless and at worst harmful. There is no reason cat vaccines need to be given annually when they confer immunity for far longer. Humans are supposed to get boosters, I think, every 10 years for the usual things like DTaP and MMR. What makes anyone think cat vaccines need to be given more often than human vaccines? :dk:
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I too am leery of the over-vaccinating of pets. It seems that rabies is also only required by law for our benefit, not the pets. It's been noted that the 3-year rabies vaccine can actually give immunity for 7-10 years. Our vets told us titer tests can be done instead of re-vaccination to show the pets have immunity to rabies still (but then he told me that titer tests don't hold up with the law and animal control even though it proves they have immunity). So it's really not about their health, or about rabies, at all. It's about making money at the expense of our own pets. And they make it sound horrible to go through all the shots. When I was a kid I got bitten by a cat and we quarantined him because we refused to kill him, and I got a series of 13 shots, and you know, it's not at all bad. They make it sound horrific. It can be, if, they REALLY have rabies, which is rare. And I've never heard of a pet who's had even a passed-due rabies vaccine ever contracting rabies, only pets who've never had the vaccine, so maybe one shot gives them a heck of a lot more immunity than people want to admit. Actually, the federal association that regulates pet vaccines just made rabies vaccine a NON-CORE vaccine, just as of this year. See the article here: http://consciouscat.net/2013/09/23/aafp-releases-new-feline-vaccination-guidelines/
For our guys, they're all indoor-only, so I generally give them the distemper/Fvrcp combo vaccine once when they're little, and maybe every 5 years or so after that, if again (they actually say to do this one no more often than every 3 years). Leukemia we usually test them for initially, but only vaccinate if we think they're likely to get out and get exposed. Plus they've found that feline leukemia is actually rare in the general outdoor cat population, although it can happen. The odds of your lost pet getting out and wandering off and finding a sickly pet and getting into a fight or cuddling with it aren't as great as people think, but it COULD happen. So maybe getting the vaccine and its boosters once is a good idea. But they also claim it only has an 80% chance of being effective. That's 20% that even if it comes in contact with a positive cat, it's still likely to get it 1 out of 5 times, even with current vaccination. Usually leukemia is spread from close intimate exposure like grooming each other, eating out of the same bowl as an infected cat, and severe fighting. I would go by how common leukemia is in your area. And as for rabies, we have to follow the **** rabies law for our area for "our" own good, which is every 1 year or every 3 years (though there is a 4-year shot for rabies available, PA doesn't offer it as an option). They have to have had a 1-year one at some point in time to start 3-year 'boosters', but after that we stick with the 3-year usually, unless the pet is getting older or ill, in which case the vet will either give you exemption medically for one year (that's as long as they can give you, then you have to go in to pay for an exam again to be re-assessed the next year, so either way it's a money maker), or the vet will say to give them a 1-year shot because it's supposedly easier on them. I've heard of site sarcomas, but have heard of them with 1 and 3-year shots, so I'm not sure just how true that really is that the 3 year is any more dangerous. I would think over-vaccination is more dangerous. Maybe that's why there's so many issues with the 3-year, because it lasts 2 to 3 times as long, and we just keep sticking another needle in there to put more juice in when they already are immune. Why over-do it?
I don't know many people who vaccinate their cats at all besides us, and of those who do it's usually just kitten shots and then rabies. I know a lot of people who vaccinate their dogs every year because dogs go out every day, but then again, so do some people's pet cats, without a leash and unsupervised. But in general, cats tend to outlive dogs, especially indoor-only ones, but dogs receive more vaccines.
Rabies vaccines are definitely controlled because pets are supposed to get them, at least once. I'm not sure every year or 3 is necessary. The laws definitely have too much control over our pets, kids, and our own bodies. Where does it end? It's my family, not theirs. They are also definitely in it for the money. In our area, I've tried several different vets for quotes and it runs about $21 for 3 years per pet, or about $30 for just 1 year per pet. So after 3 years the 1 year shots would cost $90, and the 3 year would cost $63. That doesn't even include the cost of the exams. To me that explains itself, just how stupid the system is.
For our guys, they're all indoor-only, so I generally give them the distemper/Fvrcp combo vaccine once when they're little, and maybe every 5 years or so after that, if again (they actually say to do this one no more often than every 3 years). Leukemia we usually test them for initially, but only vaccinate if we think they're likely to get out and get exposed. Plus they've found that feline leukemia is actually rare in the general outdoor cat population, although it can happen. The odds of your lost pet getting out and wandering off and finding a sickly pet and getting into a fight or cuddling with it aren't as great as people think, but it COULD happen. So maybe getting the vaccine and its boosters once is a good idea. But they also claim it only has an 80% chance of being effective. That's 20% that even if it comes in contact with a positive cat, it's still likely to get it 1 out of 5 times, even with current vaccination. Usually leukemia is spread from close intimate exposure like grooming each other, eating out of the same bowl as an infected cat, and severe fighting. I would go by how common leukemia is in your area. And as for rabies, we have to follow the **** rabies law for our area for "our" own good, which is every 1 year or every 3 years (though there is a 4-year shot for rabies available, PA doesn't offer it as an option). They have to have had a 1-year one at some point in time to start 3-year 'boosters', but after that we stick with the 3-year usually, unless the pet is getting older or ill, in which case the vet will either give you exemption medically for one year (that's as long as they can give you, then you have to go in to pay for an exam again to be re-assessed the next year, so either way it's a money maker), or the vet will say to give them a 1-year shot because it's supposedly easier on them. I've heard of site sarcomas, but have heard of them with 1 and 3-year shots, so I'm not sure just how true that really is that the 3 year is any more dangerous. I would think over-vaccination is more dangerous. Maybe that's why there's so many issues with the 3-year, because it lasts 2 to 3 times as long, and we just keep sticking another needle in there to put more juice in when they already are immune. Why over-do it?
I don't know many people who vaccinate their cats at all besides us, and of those who do it's usually just kitten shots and then rabies. I know a lot of people who vaccinate their dogs every year because dogs go out every day, but then again, so do some people's pet cats, without a leash and unsupervised. But in general, cats tend to outlive dogs, especially indoor-only ones, but dogs receive more vaccines.
Rabies vaccines are definitely controlled because pets are supposed to get them, at least once. I'm not sure every year or 3 is necessary. The laws definitely have too much control over our pets, kids, and our own bodies. Where does it end? It's my family, not theirs. They are also definitely in it for the money. In our area, I've tried several different vets for quotes and it runs about $21 for 3 years per pet, or about $30 for just 1 year per pet. So after 3 years the 1 year shots would cost $90, and the 3 year would cost $63. That doesn't even include the cost of the exams. To me that explains itself, just how stupid the system is.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #46
I can see the value in certain vaccinations, I suppose. Puppy parvo shots are something I'd never forego. Dogs need to be walked, which means they need to be outside. And even if they're really tiny dogs and not really outside a lot, I'd still get it done, because as someone mentioned above, parvo is so deadly, and the vaccine is very effective.
I know here in Massachusetts, rabies is also required to treat an animal, same as Texas. But when I took one of my kitties in, I only said 'He is probably current on it since he was last in a shelter in September 2012.' They took my word for it... Haha. I have no interest in most of the cat vaccinations, though if I got a kitten again, I might go ahead and do their initial shots? Idk. Maybe just rabies, panleuko, and FeLV. I would have to think about it long and hard though. I always think about bucking the system and refusing to do shots, law or no, but then, I think it's better for my animals to risk the shot and be able to have a nice home with me, rather than risk having them taken away or having them denied care because of no rabies shot.
I know here in Massachusetts, rabies is also required to treat an animal, same as Texas. But when I took one of my kitties in, I only said 'He is probably current on it since he was last in a shelter in September 2012.' They took my word for it... Haha. I have no interest in most of the cat vaccinations, though if I got a kitten again, I might go ahead and do their initial shots? Idk. Maybe just rabies, panleuko, and FeLV. I would have to think about it long and hard though. I always think about bucking the system and refusing to do shots, law or no, but then, I think it's better for my animals to risk the shot and be able to have a nice home with me, rather than risk having them taken away or having them denied care because of no rabies shot.
What other vaccines are there? :tongue2:
Only the Panleuk combo is considered a core vaccine by the cat vaccine experts. Rabies where required by law or risk of exposure. The FeLV vaccine is not recommended for indoor cats, and carries the highest risk for causing problems. It's definitely one you'd skip if you were going for a limited vaccine schedule.
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Vaccines protect your cat against disease. There is no evidence to suggest that vaccines cause cancer. I vaccinate my cat yearly. Choosing not to vaccinate your cat is extremely dangerous. Apartments want to see yearly vaccination records for the health of other animals and people in the building.
The AVMA believes that there is evidence that vaccine-associated sarcoma is a risk (they formed a task force to study it), and that vaccines are not risk-free and should not be given unnecessarily. Here's their little brochure about it: https://www.avma.org/About/AlliedOrganizations/Pages/rbbroch.aspx
I agree. And Cornell seems to think so, too: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/vaccsarc.html
There IS evidence that vaccines cause cancer, as Willowy said, AVMA formed a task force to study it. I can't post links yet but If you google AAHA Vaccination for cats, you will find a lot of information on the recommended core vaccination schedule for cats.
That is why they started vaccinating in the leg. They used to give the vaccinations between the cats equivalent of shoulder blades. The only chance that a cat has of surviving an aggressive sarcoma from a vaccination is by cutting all of it out early. By vaccinating in the leg they can amputate so the cat has a chance at survival.
I am a proponent of the kitten series and the boosters at 1 year of age. I know what a killer some of these diseases are particularly distemper. I seriously question vaccinating past the boosters given at 1 year particularly for an indoor cat that isn't a show cat and risks exposure at cat shows.
I am a proponent of the kitten series and the boosters at 1 year of age. I know what a killer some of these diseases are particularly distemper. I seriously question vaccinating past the boosters given at 1 year particularly for an indoor cat that isn't a show cat and risks exposure at cat shows.
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Choosing not to vaccinate your cat for WHAT is extremely dangerous, under what circumstances? If someone doesn't foster cats, doesn't rescue cats, doesn't show cats, and has an indoor-only cat, can you please explain the risk?
BTW, there was a study just recently published - the news reports were out on October 31. They're now suggesting vaccinations be given in the tail to make it easier to manage vaccination-site sarcomas: http://www.aahanet.org/blog/NewStat...ine-injections-in-cats-tails-after-study.aspx (This is the American Animal Hospital Association site, and the study is from The University of Florida: http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2013/10/31/uf-researchers-tail-vaccinations-in-cats-could-save-lives/
???? :lol3: Where I live, kennels only require proof of rabies - and it's not even required by law here.
Mosismom, I vaccinate my cats but they get kitten shots, their 1 year vaccines (only the Fvrcp and Rabies) then they are vaccinated every 3 years. I personally believe that they do need the Fvrcp as an adult to help strengthen their immunity against the vaccines. Since she is indoors she won't need leukemia. That being said, I would wait to vaccinate Mosi for a few months since Mosi just had surgery. You don't want to overload her system.
My two-cents 
In my rescue, I have these guidelines.
Kittens get an FVRCP vax at 9 weeks, 12 weeks, 15 weeks.
If a kitten comes to me at a few months old, then I will do 2 vaxs rather than the 3, as I do in very young kittens. Teenager, they get 1 vax then a one year vax.
Anyone who does not believe kittens should be vaccinated is sorely misinformed. Panleukopenia (feline version of puppy parvovirus) which is the "P" in the FVRCP vax, is HUGE, extremely hearty and is everywhere. Indoor only you say? Doesn't matter.
Walk on the grass and into the house, boom, there it is. No cure. Deadly.
Same with the "R" and the "C" which are Rhinotracheitis and Calicivirus, the top 2 and most common of the uri, Rhinotracheitis is also called herpevirus. Lifelong/recurring. Same with Calici.
Kittens have no defense/immunity against these diseases until they are grown.
Then are advised to their adoptors to get their 1 year FVRCP and possibly a rabies, but don't push that one, depends on several diff factors.
Once they are fully vaccinated at one year, afterwards I do NOT advise a yearly, even if they will have access to outdoors. That is old school and unneccesary. Every 3, even 4 years is sufficient.
I am not pro-felv vaccines either.
As for the vaccine-induced sarcoma/cancer, this is quite rare anymore with the modified live vaccines.
Still can happen but highly unlikely. The felv vax still has this problem though.
In my rescue, I have these guidelines.
Kittens get an FVRCP vax at 9 weeks, 12 weeks, 15 weeks.
If a kitten comes to me at a few months old, then I will do 2 vaxs rather than the 3, as I do in very young kittens. Teenager, they get 1 vax then a one year vax.
Anyone who does not believe kittens should be vaccinated is sorely misinformed. Panleukopenia (feline version of puppy parvovirus) which is the "P" in the FVRCP vax, is HUGE, extremely hearty and is everywhere. Indoor only you say? Doesn't matter.
Walk on the grass and into the house, boom, there it is. No cure. Deadly.
Same with the "R" and the "C" which are Rhinotracheitis and Calicivirus, the top 2 and most common of the uri, Rhinotracheitis is also called herpevirus. Lifelong/recurring. Same with Calici.
Kittens have no defense/immunity against these diseases until they are grown.
Then are advised to their adoptors to get their 1 year FVRCP and possibly a rabies, but don't push that one, depends on several diff factors.
Once they are fully vaccinated at one year, afterwards I do NOT advise a yearly, even if they will have access to outdoors. That is old school and unneccesary. Every 3, even 4 years is sufficient.
I am not pro-felv vaccines either.
As for the vaccine-induced sarcoma/cancer, this is quite rare anymore with the modified live vaccines.
Still can happen but highly unlikely. The felv vax still has this problem though.
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One of my kitties gets the FVRCP every three years and rabies yearly. The rabies being a legal requirement unless there is a health reason not to. My other kitty doesn't get vaccinated anymore because of probable liver damage from fatty liver. They both got three of the FVRCP as small kittens and then a 1 year booster. Neither of them have been vaccinated against leukemia because they are indoor cats.
I do believe that kitties need that kitten series and one year booster for FVRCP. I know people have started advocating fewer shots or forgoing them all together, I even seen one breeder advocating this. At some point they will pay dearly for making that choice.
I do believe that kitties need that kitten series and one year booster for FVRCP. I know people have started advocating fewer shots or forgoing them all together, I even seen one breeder advocating this. At some point they will pay dearly for making that choice.
Yes, her recent surgeries was a concern as well. I think I'll just go with the 1 yr booster for the fvrcp only. Won't do the rabies. Is there a non rejuvenated fvrcp vaccine? Where should the shot be given on the body for this shot?
Hi CPRCheetah,
My 4 yr. old boy's veterinary history is spotty at best, since I got him from a shelter - a surrendered cat.
He received FVRCP / Revolution / Strongid T / Rabies shot at the shelter.
A month later - I took him to the Vet's and he was given - FVRCP/C & FLV#2, Fel-O-Vax LvK IV + CaliciVax. A stool sample was also sent away to look for worms
Does this sound normal?
It looks like they're treating him as if he's never had shots before, which I suppose is the safe thing to do.
Does this mean he's got one more round of shots before the 3 year Vaccination rotation? + yearly Rabies?
Edit - I should mention. He's an indoor only cat. Or, will be from now on. I have no idea what he did for the first 4 yrs. of his life.
Or, how would you approach this. I don't want to go in naked to the Vet's office. I'd like to arm myself with a bit of knowledge.
Thanks in advance,
Marc
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I wouldn't give him any more vaccines right now, He should be good for 3 years. Adult cats do not need boosters like kittens do because their immune system is fully developed. If he is indoors you do not need the Felo Vax LvK vaccine (Leukemia).
