Urgent :: Pet Food Recall... Urgent!!! - TOXIN FOUND

[pamela]

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Pamela, I know the feeling. I am looking at 5 cats to be tested. I've got other vet expenses right now & I just don't know that I can ever afford complete blood work on them all right now.

I'm going to have to settle for urine samples. It irritates me that this is costing me my bonus paycheck(which was paying for a premium membership to TCS) for something that should have been prevented in the first place.

*sigh* I have been saving up to buy a home for myself and my furbabies so if needed, I can use my savings for cat care and postpone buying a home.. Hang in there- hope none of ur cats are affected!!!

Originally Posted by xocats

We live in an area of California where vet cost are really high.
I hope that in your area...they a lower.
If you need to take your kitties in to be tested,
try talking to your vet's office manager before you make your appointment.
Tell her your kitties need the tests because of the recall.
Maybe they will give you a group discount.
It can't hurt to ask.

Sadie's larger pee ball in her clumping litter was the deciding factor for me.
That might mean that her urine is diluted so she is putting out a larger volume. Plus she has vomited a few times recently.I had Dexter tested to be safe.
Thanks for your support...
I hope that your kitties are OK.

That is a very good point about vet care cost differences in where we live. I know that my vet has a policy of paying first and not have payment plans BUT since I have been with my vet for a long time, maybe they will be willing to work with me on this if needed. That is a good idea to ask about a group discount.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that Sadie & Dexter will be okay!!!

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

If you want to avoid the huge price of a complete blood test or a full blood panel, you can request just a BUN and Creatinine. The only urine test you need to have done is a Urine Specific Gravity (USG).

If the BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) or Creatinine are elevated, or the USG is low, then I would recommend the full blood panel. BUN and Creatinine are the two best indicators of renal function (USG, by itself, is less accurate.) By knowing those numbers, you will know whether or not renal failure has occurred.

~Hope this helps~


Pookie & the girls

Pookie- that is a HUGE help!!! THANK YOU! I will definitely ask for BUN and/or Creatinine testing when I call my vet tmr.

Originally Posted by lunasmom

I just want to send major vibes to all of you whose canned wet food is on the list. Whitey, Luna, Patches, Beauty and I all hope that your kitties are OK and if they do test positive that they have a quick recovery and continue to live a long life. :hug:

THANKS! We need it.. I just cleaned out my litterboxes and decided to compare urine and there were definitely some BIG clumps (mostly in the bedroom so it's very likely Heidi since she lives in my bedroom and uses the litterbox the most). The only issue with that is Heidi is VERY FAT (I've been trying to get her to lose weight but it's HARD) so my question is could her urine be bigger than others due to her weight?? I have also found 2-3 big clumps in other litter boxes so it's not just Heidi...

Originally Posted by LokisMum

I was freaking out when I heard that Nestlé Purina was doing a voluntary recall, but the Fancy Feast wasn't on it! The boys eat the grilled chicken and the grilled beef Fancy Feast every morning for breakfast! It has wheat gluten in it, but their site doesn't list it as being recalled. I hope it doesn't go on the list, because that's all they'll eat other than their dry which is from the vet.

Fancy Feast too????????????????????????????????????? That's the other wetfood I give to my cats!!!

 

[pamela]

Originally Posted by Bella713

Pamela, just to let you know I am thinking about you and your babies...many prayers headed your way

THANK YOU!!!

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

Hah..now you know better than to ask for a guarantee that a cat will eat anything you want them to! Sharky has done homecooked diets, as has DawnofSierra...there are many recipes out there...one great book is by Dr.Strombeck who has recipes in many variations (some are low protein, low phos, some are lower in sodium etc.)

a great overall site on cat nutrition (even though it's author does raw for those NOT interested in doing raw I don't want you to be surprised..still a site to go to for the discussion on diabetes, ibd, crf and diet) is by a vet and is www.catinfo.org, it is kept upated and is an excellent site. She gives her recipe for feeding raw and much more re raw.

ps there are great *small* companies out there doing raw - frozen or dehydrated. They include Aunt Jenies - Honest Kitchen, and Raw Advantage out of WA state which has their OWN facility for production and packaging.

Frankly I am even more interested now in products such as the Trout Pate by IcelandPet, and food from ZiwiPeak.

Aunt Jenie's, Raw Advantage, Trout Pate & ZiwiPeak- they have to be ordered online?

 

[pamela]

Another question- how long do we need to watch our cats before we're sure they're ok? What I mean is if I don't see anything wrong after a week, then are the cats safe? When does the symptoms start appearing? Within a couple days or weeks??

 

[renovia]

it sounds like avoderm could be ordered online too...i just looked those other brands up and they seem easy to order.

 

[lokismum]

So far Purina's seems to be the Mighty Dog chunks. I'm going to watch the web-site to make sure nothing else gets added.

http://www.purina.com/

 

[jcat]

Originally Posted by vanillasugar

Just because it was easy and natural for you does not mean that will be everyone else's experience. It took me nearly 6 full months to convince my cats that they wanted to eat REAL food. Just because I knew what they should be eating, and what I wanted them to be eating, doesn't mean they understood that.

I understand your sentiment, but don't think now is the time to be lecturing people on what they should be feeding their cats. We've got members of this forum who are seriously concerned about the health of their cats because of this recall, and don't need to be made to feel like it's their FAULT for feeding their cats a certain food.

If, because of this, people want to change their cats diet (as I'm sure many will) that is when we have the opportunity to discuss fresh, real diets with them.

Until then, we should all be sensitive about what others may be going through at this time.

I didn't interpret the post you're referring to as "lecturing", but simply an attempt to help. Many posters are simply afraid to feed any commercial cat foods while the lists of recalled articles are being extended.
A homemade diet, even if not balanced as far as amino acids, minerals, etc., are concerned, is a short-term alternative. Stewing beef or chicken, served in its "juice", without cooked bones, or a boned salmon or a few slices of baked ham, might be just the thing to entice your fur babies to eat something other than their usual cat food until the root of the problem has been found.
If it takes more than a few days, supplements recommended by raw feeders should probably be added to the meat/fish diet.

 

[strange_wings]

The suspected ingredient, wheat gluten meal, is not generally tested. Neither is corn gluten meal, because it's the inside of the grain. That's how this happened.

The gluten feed is tested, since stuff like corn gluten feed is fermented husk. I'll find out soon if the plant DH works at has had to add gluten meal to the list of ingredients tested.

He just informed me earlier that they ran barley for 6 years without toxin testing because they didn't know they had to test it! After testing they discovered several batches had to be recalled. So I suspect this happens more often then we know about. Supposedly most of it is caught before it makes it out of the plant, but it does happen at least a few times a year.

As for who owns the plants. His is owned by Mars, yes the candy makers. They own whiskas and a few other brands as well as doing a lot of contracted brands.
Now here's a nice thought for everyone, these companies do make human foods and they do reuse tankers, such as using a milkyway tanker to haul animal digest. Anyone's candy bars tasted like chicken lately?

 

[beandip]

Originally Posted by Pamela

THANKS! We need it.. I just cleaned out my litterboxes and decided to compare urine and there were definitely some BIG clumps (mostly in the bedroom so it's very likely Heidi since she lives in my bedroom and uses the litterbox the most). The only issue with that is Heidi is VERY FAT (I've been trying to get her to lose weight but it's HARD) so my question is could her urine be bigger than others due to her weight?? I have also found 2-3 big clumps in other litter boxes so it's not just Heidi...

You certainly have a reason to be concerned because of the recall...however, are the clumps always "Big"?...what you're looking for is a sudden increase in size in each cat's clumps. Some cats pee "bigger" than others. In my group, anything from a ping-pong ball sized clump to a clump the size and shape of a chicken breast (sorry that's the only thing I could think of

) is normal. It just depends on what is normal for each of your cats.

I hope they are all OK.

And yes, my bigger cats do make bigger clumps, normally.

 

[xocats]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Now here's a nice thought for everyone, these companies do make human foods and they do reuse tankers, such as using a milkyway tanker to haul animal digest. Anyone's candy bars tasted like chicken lately?

OMG

The food industry, human & pet, is seriously broken.

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[lionessrampant]

Originally Posted by xocats

You have a point but I think that most of us, if not all, did not know that pet food supplied to North American consumers, came from one central company...
Menu Foods.

Until Friday night when the recall was announced I thought that the food my kitties ate was manufactured at plants owned by Nutro.
I was led to believe that because of Nutro's advertising and innuendo.
The pet food industry lobby spends millions to help pet food companies distort what they are doing.

The labs my kitties had yesterday not only caused them pain, trauma and suffering,they cost me $400 plus emotional trauma.
If either one of my precious babies had been injured by the greed of Nutro...
I will be mad.

Of course I am focusing on finding a new source for their food but until there is truth in advertising forced on Pet Food companies....
It will be difficult to know what I am buying.

Dexter & Sadie are really missing their chunks and gravy.
I wish that was our only problem with this.

Still waiting for the lab report.

The way they do it is that they formulate it at their headquarters (and as far as I know, Nutro and Hill's are the only ones self-owned, the others all have a major parent company, like Iams and Euk are from Proctor and Gamble, Nestle owns Purina, Mars owns Whiskas, etc) and then they commission a large canning plant to actually make the food using their designated formulas. When I went to Evanger's, they said there were only something like 3 or 4 canning companies that operate out of several plants. Evanger's is the only one she was aware of that manufacuted its own house brand (meaning, they formulate it, make it, can it and chip it all from the same location), in addition to doing private label things (they'll help you formulate your own cat or dog food and get it AAFCO certified and sell it to you...for a price, anyway).

 

[beandip]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Now here's a nice thought for everyone, these companies do make human foods and they do reuse tankers, such as using a milkyway tanker to haul animal digest. Anyone's candy bars tasted like chicken lately?

All I can say is *urrrp*

That's disgusting. Thank you for the info, though.

 

[nellers]

I just spoke to a Nutro rep who was at the Petco trying to educate people about the recall. Apparently, Nutro products were not directly affected, but because there is still some uncertainty to origin of the problem, they voluntarily recalled their wet food to be safe until they test it to verify it is safe.

Not sure how accurate it is but I wanted to pass it on since it was from a rep.

 

[petcrazy]

SYMPTOMS FYI- To my understanding, in this case we would be dealing with ACUTE renal failure rather than chronic.

So in this case you will be looking for LESS urine output rather than more. In crf the urine output is higher than usual but with acute it is diminished.

Eventually in ARF the urine increases but this isn't until the disease has progressed.

The good thing about acute, as opposed to chronic, is that there is a window of recovery for pets diagnosed depending on the cause and time of treatment. So if you do notice anything unusual I would highly recommened getting a CBC or just the renal labs checked out.

The bad news is that acute can turn into chronic

If that is the case, there is no recovery but it doesn't mean all hope is lost. Our kitty was given 1 year at the most to live when she was diagnosed with CRF. That was 3 years ago and despite the daily fluid injections you wouldn't be able to tell she was sick!

Here is a great website on arf-although, just to warn you it is a medical website so it gets very clinical and may be difficult to read:

http://courses.vetmed.wsu.edu/vm552/urogenital/arf.htm

Clinical information from website if interested

The clinical course of ARF proceeds through a sequence of overlapping phases:

initiation phase
oliguric phase
polyuric phase
phase of functional recovery
The initiation phase is defined as the time from renal insult to recognition of decreased GFR, decreased urine output and increased BUN and creatinine. This phase lasts 1-2 days.

The oliguric phase which is also called the maintenance phase, is the period of time during which oliguria persists. Some ARF patients are never oliguric. Whether an ARF patient is oliguric or polyuric probably reflects the severity of insult which caused the ARF. As the majority (80 to 90%) of ARF dogs and cats become oliguric, it indicates that the situations which cause ARF in these species are severe and correlates with the poor prognosis for ARF patients.

In those patients which can repair the renal damage, the oliguric phase lasts 1-2 weeks. Many animals die or are euthanized during the oliguric phase because of the poor prognosis. The most life-threatening consequences of the oliguric phase include hyperkalemia (this would be increased potassium) and overzealous fluid therapy resulting in overhydration (from subq's).

The polyuric phase = high output phase = diuretic phase is characterized by a progressive increase in urine volume in patients which were initially oliguric. The patients still have an increased BUN and creatinine and isosthenuric USG. The polyuric phase may indicate the beginning of renal repair and return of function or may be indicative of a less severe insult to the kidneys. This phase lasts a few days to several weeks or longer.

The phase of functional recovery has neither a clearly defined beginning or end. In patients capable of repairing the renal injury, BUN, creatinine, and urine volume gradually return to normal. Concentrating ability is the slowest to return. Permanent defects in concentration, acidification, or permanent decreases in GFR may persist.

Some ARF patients progress to CRF

 

[xocats]

Thank you for that educational post petcrazy.
It adds some important information about a subject that is new to many of us.

 

[pookie-poo]

I want to try to give people a little hope here too. My Cleo was diagnosed with renal failure when she was 6 months old. We don't really know the reason why, perhaps it is a congenital problem, or perhaps she was exposed to lily plants. I had a bouquet of them in my house when I first adopted her from the animal shelter. Lily plants are extremely nephro-toxic...only a miniscule amount needs to be ingested to cause renal failure. Cleo will be celebrating her 7th birthday in May, so cats can live a full and 'healthy' life even with the diagnosis of renal failure. She gets sub-Q fluids, low protein/low phosphorus foods, medications and supplements, but she is thriving despite the diagnosis of renal failure. It's not automatically a death sentence, but you do have to act quickly in the event of acute renal failure, which is, I assume, what we are dealing with regarding the food recall. And as mentioned, acute renal failure can progress into chronic renal failure...or it can resolve completely. I think a lot has to do with the animal, and how quickly the acute episode is treated. As always, my thoughts and prayers are with everyone (people & kitties) who have been affected by this recall!


Pookie & the girls

 

[icklemiss21]

Originally Posted by Nellers

I just spoke to a Nutro rep who was at the Petco trying to educate people about the recall. Apparently, Nutro products were not directly affected, but because there is still some uncertainty to origin of the problem, they voluntarily recalled their wet food to be safe until they test it to verify it is safe.

Not sure how accurate it is but I wanted to pass it on since it was from a rep.

It is my experience that reps know very little and should have little attention paid to them.

Regardless, it is on the recall list and it is not worth the risk to feed it to kitties IMO

 

[sylorna]

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

I want to try to give people a little hope here too. My Cleo was diagnosed with renal failure when she was 6 months old. We don't really know the reason why, perhaps it is a congenital problem, or perhaps she was exposed to lily plants. I had a bouquet of them in my house when I first adopted her from the animal shelter. Lily plants are extremely nephro-toxic...only a miniscule amount needs to be ingested to cause renal failure. Cleo will be celebrating her 7th birthday in May, so cats can live a full and 'healthy' life even with the diagnosis of renal failure. She gets sub-Q fluids, low protein/low phosphorus foods, medications and supplements, but she is thriving despite the diagnosis of renal failure. It's not automatically a death sentence, but you do have to act quickly in the event of acute renal failure, which is, I assume, what we are dealing with regarding the food recall. And as mentioned, acute renal failure can progress into chronic renal failure...or it can resolve completely. I think a lot has to do with the animal, and how quickly the acute episode is treated. As always, my thoughts and prayers are with everyone (people & kitties) who have been affected by this recall!


Pookie & the girls

I'd like to second the motion of comfort. Our cat Rasha was diagnosed when he was 15 years old with severe Renal failure, and after some water transfusions mom was dilligent about his medications and food...they gave him a week and he lived for a further 3 years! When he was 18 Rasha died from what the vet thinks was conjestive heart failure...point is NOT renal failure. Don't give up hope to those who have sick kitties, miricles can happen.

 

[dawnofsierra]

Excellent information, Petcrazy! Thank you!

 

[pamela]

Originally Posted by beandip

You certainly have a reason to be concerned because of the recall...however, are the clumps always "Big"?...what you're looking for is a sudden increase in size in each cat's clumps. Some cats pee "bigger" than others. In my group, anything from a ping-pong ball sized clump to a clump the size and shape of a chicken breast (sorry that's the only thing I could think of

) is normal. It just depends on what is normal for each of your cats.

I hope they are all OK.

And yes, my bigger cats do make bigger clumps, normally.

To be honest..... I THINK the clumps have always been big for Heidi... I have a terrible memory so I can't really recall for certain in the past the sizes.... Today, I saw clumps the size of a ping-pong ball up to the size of a chicken breast (I LOVED how you described that!! Better than I could've tried to explain!).

I just saw another post here saying that the symptoms are a bit different in acute renal failure compared to CRF so 1 symptom is LESS urine.. That got me curious so I googled ARF and she's right- if cats have ARF then they'd have less urine...

Here's the link- http://www.petplace.com/cats/acute-r...ats/page1.aspx

It has a list of symptoms to look for.. Hope it helps!!

 

[jazzpicker]

At this point, I don't know if anyone knows the cause of renal failure other than it is something related to certain brands of food. Maybe it is glutens and maybe not. From my understanding the moist foods are suspected as causing the problem. Please post if you find something different.
Renal failure is not a new problem in cats, as mentioned before. I was floored when I found out how many cats die of renal failure every year. Maybe this current epidemic will bring the causes to light and give more understanding and hopefully a way to stop the problem,
I'd bet my boots that the cat food companies know something about the cause of the problem and are keeping quiet for legal and business reasons but that is just my opinion and not a fact.
I'm not a vet but I know that renal failure can be present with symptoms or without symptoms. Because my cats are running around and acting normally, it doesn't mean they have normal kidney function. When symptoms appear I think the the disease is advanced or the renal failure is acute.
A prudent idea for those who have cats that have been exposed to the foods on the list or have concerns otherwise would be to contact your vet and ask if it is a good idea to have blood studies done to determine the kitty's renal(kidney) function and follow the advice given.
This is a complex issue with acute vs chronic renal failure and better left for qualified vets to diagnose. I'm in he same boat as as the rest of the forum with 5 cats that I love dearly and now have worries about their health.