Tylosin For Undiagnosed Cause Of Diarrhea?

[Richard2121]

So Richard and the whole gang are finally done with their course of doxycycline treatment for the chlamydophila felis. It was 4 weeks of daily dosing in the morning with food. A week later no symptoms have returned and Richard went in for a follow up and pre-operative exam for getting neutered. For those of you who did not see my last posts Richard is 7 months old and had been getting repeat URIs, diarrhea, eye infections, etc. and was in the vet pretty much on a weekly basis for 3 months. We finally got everything under control aside from the diarrhea which has been terrible. It smells bad, it looks like pudding or soup most of the time and it never seems to get much better than that. I know antibiotics can do a number on a kitty's gut so I am willing to be patient. The vet prescribed Tylosin powder last night and told me to give it to Richard every 12 hours with food. I am putting the powder in gelatin capsules and forcing him to swallow them. It is not fun but its the only way I can get him to ingest this bitter powder! My question is: has anyone had experience with Tylosin powder and can you speak on the efficacy of it? Does this seem to treat loose stools? We have no idea what is causing it but I may also start feeding Richard only Primal nuggets to eliminate all the processed nonsense in the Fancy Feast and other canned foods we feed. I could also try probiotics again but those seem to have no real effect one way or the other.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I have no experience with Tylosin. As, I am sure you are already aware, it is a antibiotic used to treat all kinds of infections, including intestinal bacteria. (Which may be why Richard is being given it, since all of his others issues seems to be under control?) However, I read that one of the side effects might be an initial worsening of the diarrhea before improvements are seen. Also, potential stomach upset was listed on a couple of sites related to Tylosin. How long is he due to be on it, and did the vet give you any type of timeline as far as when you might expect to see improvement?

Seems like all too often a med being used to treat a condition can have side effects the same as the condition. Go figure... Hope this is not the case with Richard!!

 

[Richard2121]

I know I was NOT looking forward to giving any more medication for awhile.....I have 4 kittens and they are all so young and under a year old still. I hope all these issues can work themselves out and we can just move on. Richard has been the "chronic everything" guy. Chronic respiratory symptoms, chronic diarrhea, etc. I need a break!! But I push onward because I love them all so much

 

[Noirele]

I know I was NOT looking forward to giving any more medication for awhile.....I have 4 kittens and they are all so young and under a year old still. I hope all these issues can work themselves out and we can just move on. Richard has been the "chronic everything" guy. Chronic respiratory symptoms, chronic diarrhea, etc. I need a break!! But I push onward because I love them all so much

Chronic respiratory diseases go hand in hand with diarrhea. And I know that well, because it's (was?) exactly our problem. Four months of antibiotic and voilà! Tree months of diarrhea, simple as that. We destroyed his gut bacteria...
Probiotics help a lot, and also changing diet. You have to consider that gut dysbiosis can lead to food intollerance as well. Anyway, sometimes diarrhea does respond well to antibiotics, and tylosin is a classic example. We tried kanamycin, which share the same characteristic: it's mainly absorbed in the intestine and not anywhere else. Another "classic" is metronidazole, which would be our next try. But with the new food, no diarrhea! 7 days in a row! Yu-uh!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Did you ask the vet if there is another antibiotic like Tylosin that doesn't taste so bad. I read it is in the same class of antibiotics like: erythromycin, clarithromycin or roxytromycin. If you have to give Richard an antibiotic, it would be nice if it didn't taste so nasty.

 

[Richard2121]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and the hope everyone has sent me so far! I love this site for the short time I have been here

 

[Richard2121]

Did you ask the vet if there is another antibiotic like Tylosin that doesn't taste so bad. I read it is in the same class of antibiotics like: erythromycin, clarithromycin or roxytromycin. If you have to give Richard an antibiotic, it would be nice if it didn't taste so nasty.

I am planning to call them this morning when I have a chance to update them on things and let them know about the taste issue. I know the vet really only gave me two options, Metrodinazole or Tylosin powder and I chose tylosin because there is less negative stuff circulating about that drug. I was essentially trying to choose the lesser of two evils because if it were my choice he would not take any more antibiotics!

 

[She's a witch]

I don’t think I would give my cats antibiotics without knowing what it’s supposed to cure. Do you trust your vet enough that his guess is right? Have you considered some PCR tests of the stool to find out what bacteria (if any) can be there to treat?

 

[FeebysOwner]

I believe I heard Metro is also equally bad in terms of taste. So, sad to say, you might as well stick with what you've got. Bummer! But, do ask the vet what the s/he is treating specifically - diarrhea because of what?

Oh, just now saw post by She's a witch - ditto on fecal test if not already done. You could even collect the sample and take it to the vet's office if you would like to avoid another vet visit right now for poor Richard.

 

[Richard2121]

I was intending on doing the PCR panel if the diarrhea persisted so maybe I will be persistent on that and request the lab work be done. The vet we go to now we have only seen twice, but he managed to tackle an issue no other vet could for 3 months. So I do trust him to a certain extent and he seems very knowledgeable in modern medicine for cats. I am also weary to trust any vet due to my past experiences but I respect this one enough to sort of follow his care plans and stay out of his way. The thing about Richard is that he may not have anything infectious to deem a PCR panel necessary. He has been on Clavimox twice and Doxycycline for 4.5 weeks straight. So over 4 months he has been on antibiotics for about 45-50 days total with intermittent gaps in between. I imagine this is contributing if not totally causing his loose stools.

 

[LTS3]

Try the ham baby food method to get nasty tasting pills into a cat: The Best Pill-taking Secret I Know...

Pill Pockets work well, too.

Probiotics can be helpful but it may take trying a few different ones to see what helps. There's info on probiotics here: Probiotics for Cats - Why and Which Ones On page 9 of that article, there is info on using Saccharomyces boulardii (a yeast, not bacteria) to help with diarrhea. Probiotics should be given about 2 hours before or after the antibiotic to be effective. S. boulardii isn't affected by antibiotics.

 

[Richard2121]

I will also mention that about 2 or 3 months ago Richard had gotten a fecal exam done in the vet office and I also requested a Giardia test be done at the same time. The vet called me with results and they said he had no signs of worms or any identifiable parasites. He also tested negative for Giardia which I know is hard to test for to begin with. BUT the vet said that they saw something in his stool during the Giardia test but could not determine what it was. We never did a PCR panel at the time because Richard was still sick and using antibiotics so I wanted to treat one thing at a time. Thinking back I wonder if that "organism" they saw could be some type of coccidia (gram-positive bacteria)? If this is correct, then Tylosin would effectively treat this. Tylosin can also be used to treat chronic diarrhea caused by other issues. So I am hesitant to pull the plug now that I forked over $76 for a tub of this powder!

 

[She's a witch]

The thing about Richard is that he may not have anything infectious to deem a PCR panel necessary. He has been on Clavimox twice and Doxycycline for 4.5 weeks straight. So over 4 months he has been on antibiotics for about 45-50 days total with intermittent gaps in between. I imagine this is contributing if not totally causing his loose stools.

If so, what's the point of adding another antibiotics? What would that possibly do? I am just wondering what the logic behind it is, I may lack the knowledge :-) Wouldn't it further mess with the bacterial flora?

I don't know how does it work in US, because I've seen couple of times that they seem to make you do the whole so called panels, but back in Europe you wouldn't have to do the whole "panel" in Idexx and test for all kind of pathogens that have already been ruled out one way or another, but for some chosen pathogen that you indicate. Maybe you can discuss this with your vet to avoid testing for something that has already been ruled out.

 

[FeebysOwner]

You probably have the best strategy - "stick with one thing at a time".

 

[Richard2121]

If so, what's the point of adding another antibiotics? What would that possibly do? I am just wondering what the logic behind it is, I may lack the knowledge :-) Wouldn't it further mess with the bacterial flora?

I don't know how does it work in US, because I've seen couple of times that they seem to make you do the whole so called panels, but back in Europe you wouldn't have to do the whole "panel" in Idexx and test for all kind of pathogens that have already been ruled out one way or another, but for some chosen pathogen that you indicate. Maybe you can discuss this with your vet to avoid testing for something that has already been ruled out.

The specific antibiotic being used is necessary to treat both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria in the gut. Other antibiotics would not be effective. So If he does have an infection of coccidia or something else then this would be the effective treatment and it would eradicate his chronic diarrhea. It would also explain why he has had diarrhea without cure for so long even when strong probiotics are used. I hate guessing as much as the next cat owner but after spending closed to $250 at the vet last night I am hesitant to spend another $200 on the PCR panel just to determine he needs the medicine he is already taking.

 

[She's a witch]

I will also mention that about 2 or 3 months ago Richard had gotten a fecal exam done in the vet office and I also requested a Giardia test be done at the same time. The vet called me with results and they said he had no signs of worms or any identifiable parasites. He also tested negative for Giardia which I know is hard to test for to begin with. BUT the vet said that they saw something in his stool during the Giardia test but could not determine what it was. We never did a PCR panel at the time because Richard was still sick and using antibiotics so I wanted to treat one thing at a time. Thinking back I wonder if that "organism" they saw could be some type of coccidia (gram-positive bacteria)? If this is correct, then Tylosin would effectively treat this. Tylosin can also be used to treat chronic diarrhea caused by other issues. So I am hesitant to pull the plug now that I forked over $76 for a tub of this powder!

I would think they could tell coccidium cysts under the microscope. I'd repeat the simple fecal if you suspect this, it's cheap enough.
I am forgetting sometimes how ridiculously expensive vet services are in here

 

[Richard2121]

Yes! SO expensive I am saddened every time we go to the vet because I will prioritize Richard's health over anything else. The price hurts sometimes!! The fecal exams came back with "something" as I mentioned above but they did not know what it was. This was also the same vet that didn't give Richard antibiotics for an obvious URI and sent me away with instructions to take him to the emergency vet if he still was not eating the next day. Needless to say I am sure they saw "something" but their ability to identify it properly is definitely questionable at best.

 

[LTS3]

Can you have the fecal results looked at by another vet?

 

[Richard2121]

Can you have the fecal results looked at by another vet?

The results are so old now there are notes on it but my new vet already reviewed all of Richard's medical history so I would imagine he has those notes too!

 

[She's a witch]

I hate to add that maybe you should also consider tritrichomonas foetus if the diarrhea is smelly. It is not rare yet many vet fail at identifying it. But both coccidia and tritrichomonas foetus are transmissible and if you have other kittens at home, they should show symptoms too, unless they are significantly stronger than Richard.