Tom cat tries to mate with pregnant female.

[lazer]

 
Hi!   Im a little surprised you being in Sweden and inside the purebred circles havent heard about such arrangements.  Perhaps they arent THAT common. Perhaps its a little hush hush about them.  But its quite common as far as I know.   The question is only, if the new owners get 50% in price reduction, or if they gets 100% - which also happens. It may also differ in the litters agreed upon, esp for a stud.

Of course, it surely happens with tries for "kidnapping"  = a not so very good deal.

That part of showing differs somewhat.  And may depend on the exact circumstances.  If the now owner fancy showing, he surely may show himself.  If he doesnt fancy, the breeder is showing them, in own name as products of his breeding, or as being a "friend"  of the owner, carrying forward the cat.   And yes, as its custom to show cats before breeding (not mandatory, thought) so some sort of Showing is usual.   Also, its expected, as part of the fun being a part of the purebred owning....        The will to show is often a strong argumet to buy the cat, if there are several wanting to buy.

The new owner doensnt need to be very experienced, as the breeder is typically responsible for all the practicals, with mating, and with delivering.  Unless the owner is exprienced.

And thus, for a wannabe  new breeder, this is a nice and comfortable step in.  Getting a mentor and experience....

Im not sure what you mean by what I put in bold letters.  Sweden or "USA"?   As the practice differs both these countries.

Thank you for the information! It's very interesting. I'm not really "inside" the purebred circles - we do not show and just wanted to find a good breeder to get two healthy Maine Coon kittens as pets, for companionship. And not being native Swedish speakers aside from our breeders and some coworkers who happen to breed Siamese we aren't really that familiar with many serious cat people in Sweden. So it's very possible that this very common as you said and we simply haven't been aware of it.

 

[plutosangel]

Hello everyone I'd like to inform you that my Cat had 6 kittens - but there were complications and we opted to get a c-section done. She took some time to recover and only 2 kittens made it. (Two died during the surgery - one was a blue baby and the other was in the birth canal) while two died after a few days of birth because they were unable to latch and the mother had very little milk - they weren't even able to latch on to bottles with KMR - I'm guessing these were premature because they were extremely tiny. Eventually, they went cold they died of hyperthermia. In fact 4 of her teats were producing virtually no milk - and I won't blame her - a c-section is a major surgery.

I think you'll be happy to know that I even got her spayed - during the c-section. It has been a very stressful time for me and my family but we have learned the importance of spaying/neutering at a younger age. I have postponed the neutering of the tom cat a bit for now as it's already difficult to take care of one cat post-operation. I'll get it done as soon as the female is doing better. The male cat is an indoor only cat. I will tolerate the spraying a little while more I just can't handle another weak cat right now.

It's over a week and she's recovering slowly. Luckily, she is still able to nurse the remaining two kittens. One kitten is substantially larger than the other so I'm keeping a close eye on the small guy. Hopefully, they'll even out in size and they'll be fine.

Thanks for all your messages.

 

[StefanZ]

 
Hello everyone I'd like to inform you that my Cat had 6 kittens - but there were complications and we opted to get a c-section done. She took some time to recover and only 2 kittens made it. (Two died during the surgery - one was a blue baby and the other was in the birth canal) while two died after a few days of birth because they were unable to latch and the mother had very little milk - they weren't even able to latch on to bottles with KMR - I'm guessing these were premature because they were extremely tiny. Eventually, they went cold they died of hyperthermia. In fact 4 of her teats were producing virtually no milk - and I won't blame her - a c-section is a major surgery.

I think you'll be happy to know that I even got her spayed - during the c-section. It has been a very stressful time for me and my family but we have learned the importance of spaying/neutering at a younger age. I have postponed the neutering of the tom cat a bit for now as it's already difficult to take care of one cat post-operation. I'll get it done as soon as the female is doing better. The male cat is an indoor only cat. I will tolerate the spraying a little while more I just can't handle another weak cat right now.

It's over a week and she's recovering slowly. Luckily, she is still able to nurse the remaining two kittens. One kitten is substantially larger than the other so I'm keeping a close eye on the small guy. Hopefully, they'll even out in size and they'll be fine.

Thanks for all your messages.

Ouch, you had got a rough time..   Im happy momma is OK, even if still recovalescent, and at least two kittens are alive, and hopefully well.

As you say, you must observe especielly the smallest one.  Keep an eye he is growing and adding at least 6grammes every day, but 10g is better.

Return with new questions as soon there is any need!

The neutering of toms is no big deal, they are  a little down the weather one or max two days.  If there is no complications, they are perfectly fine after latest two days.  Its essentiely they are dizzy after the narcose the first half day, that is what it usually is.

A quite minor surgery, compared with spaying or cesarean.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I'm so sorry this happened. Are you considering having the kittens spayed before they go to their new homes?

And the above is correct. Having the male spayed is quick and easy.

 

[talkingpeanut]

And has the breeder been involved with any of this?

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, you've certainly had a big time of it lately.
Sounds like mom is recovering nicely, and two kittens have made it thus far.

As Stefan said, male neutering is a simple, external procedure, that your cat will recover from in a day or two. As he will still have viable sperm for a couple weeks after the surgery, he should be fixed as soon as possible.

Are you weighing the kittens daily? If you see the smaller one is not gaining weight, you'll need to supplement with KMR but using a needleless syringe. The kitten is fed tummy down, head up, couple drops in the side of the mouth at a time, let the kitten swallow, breathe and go again. Kittens with moms will never take a bottle, and there is no latching required in syringe feeding.

Also, an electric heating pad set on low and placed under a blanket, or a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel, or a warmed raw rice sock will provide an external heat source for the kittens. They cannot eat or digest properly if they are cold, and they cannot regulate their own body temperature for a good three weeks after birth.

Best wishes and please ask questions as they arise.

 

[plutosangel]

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• plutosangel
• Dec 8, 2015

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• plutosangel
• Dec 8, 2015

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• plutosangel
• Dec 8, 2015

Here are some pictures of the kittens. They areally terrible ones but when you have an angry mother cat staring at you while you do this, you can't help but do a rushed job! These fellas were born on the 30th of Nov, and the vet said that she was already late to deliver by 4 days. Today is the 8th so they are just over a week old. Is the little one too little?

 

[plutosangel]

Mom is doing much better today - her appetite has increased. She had a vomiting fit only 3 days ago and we had to put her on IV. So her walking around and eating by herself is a major achievement!

A few more days of observation and then I'll get the male cat neutered.

Thank you all for your very helpful comments. Ive cleared out the lower shelf of my cupboard and have set her kittening box there. It's warm and toasty and I've also got a heating pad handy for the colder days. The weather is not too cold here right now and I fear that if it gets too hot the mom cat might get dehydrated especially after the vomiting three days ago.

 

[handsome kitty]

The trick is to put the heating pad on one side of the box so the cat and kittens can move away from it if they get too warm.  Food and water s/b nearby and the litter box close as well.  Nursing mom's don't like to leave the kittens for long periods of time when they are very young.

The way to tell if the small one is too small is to weigh the kittens.  Use a small kitchen scale that weighs in grams or 1/10 ounces.  Weigh the kittens in front of mom and at the same time every day so you get an accurate weight gain every day.

they are adorable.

 

[Willowy]

The kittens don't look longhaired---are you sure your cats are Persians? Persian kittens are usually little fluffballs even as newborns . It's so sad that most of the babies didn't make it but at least you have the 2 survivors, and hopefully they'll grow up big and strong.

Have you been able to tell if they're boys or girls yet?

If one doesn't seem to be getting enough to eat, you can put the bigger kitten in a separate box (nice and warm, and after he's eaten, so he doesn't squall and stress the mama cat) a few times a day and let the little guy have some alone time with Mama so he can get a decent meal. Sometimes the bigger kittens will push the smaller guys off the teat so they don't get enough.

 

[plutosangel]

@Willowy  you're probably  right about the persian thing - after posting about the cats here and when people pointed out that they don't look like doll face persians I did a lot of research and found out that indeed my cats are mixed breed. I don't mind anyway - they're family now and I love them to bits - long or short or medium hair!  

The separate box suggestion is a really good one! I do think the big guy pushes the little one away.

@Handsome Kitty  I have a kitchen scale and I'll do that right away! Thanks for the suggestion. I have placed some food and water near the mama cat. But is it normal for mama cat to spend a lot of time outside the kittening box? She visits the box several times a day but has started to spend considerable time outside of the box either lounging on my bed or staring out the window.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Do you plan to give them back to the original breeder though? It just sounds like a bad situation for all cats involved.

 

[plutosangel]

Do you plan to give them back to the original breeder though? It just sounds like a bad situation for all cats involved.

No, I'm going to keep them with me. I have a close friend who is very passionate about cats and she takes really good care of her cats. She wanted to get one more. I might give one to her if it gets too hard to manage.

I know! it turned out really bad - not just for the cats but for my entire family. It's been very stressful and being first time cat owners I had no idea that cat breeding can get so messy. But the good thing is that mama cat is doing better and she's spayed. We still have two surviving kittens although out of them one is a bit small, I know he will catch up soon

 

[talkingpeanut]

 
No, I'm going to keep them with me. I have a close friend who is very passionate about cats and she takes really good care of her cats. She wanted to get one more. I might give one to her if it gets too hard to manage.

I know! it turned out really bad - not just for the cats but for my entire family. It's been very stressful and being first time cat owners I had no idea that cat breeding can get so messy. But the good thing is that mama cat is doing better and she's spayed. We still have two surviving kittens although out of them one is a bit small, I know he will catch up soon

Again, so sorry this happened to all of you.  Breeding is a big risk.  Has the breeder you got your cats from had anything to say about any of this?

Are they both gaining weight every day?  If not, you'll want to supplement the little guy.

 

[plutosangel]

Hi all this is an old post but I just thought I'd give you all an update. I've got the male cat neutered as well and we've never been more at peace. Why did I think so many times before I did this? He's the sweetest most loving cat now and best of all there's no more spraying! Additionally, he is so relaxed and his shedding has dramatically reduced. It's a pleasure to have such a lovely kitty around. It's been a good 3 months since we did the procedure and his activity levels are not terribly different and I've made sure that both cats are fed some raw and some kibble in the right portions.

About the kittens - well we have just one kitten surviving but she's a star! We're still on the fence about keeping her she's a bit more than 3 months old we should be taking a decision soon.

Thank's everyone for your comments and suggestions they have been helpful. I've become an advocate of neutering because it's really a big boon and not as bad as it sounds to a first time cat owner. I've even pushed my friend to get her Tom neutered.

Here's a picture of the kitten!

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• plutosangel
• Feb 18, 2016

 

[princesspippa]

Gorgeous kitten

 

[talkingpeanut]

What a great story, but sorry to hear only one kitten survived. Do you know what happened to the others?

 

[Kat0121]

That's fantastic news about your boy. I hope your friend takes your advice about neutering her tom.

I'm sorry that the rest of the litter didn't make it. Unfortunately, this does happen sometimes. The kitten  is adorable!! 

 

[Sarthur2]

He's a gorgeous fellow! And thanks for the update! I hope you can keep him. [emoji]128149[/emoji]

We always advocate spaying and neutering on TCS. Cats are much happier and healthier, live longer, and it helps with population control. So glad you and your boy are happier now since his neuter.

The kitten can be neutered now too. I had my 3 males done at 12 weeks. They came home same day and resumed playing immediately. They are turning a year next month, and no spraying or aggression of any kind ever!

Let us know how your precious kitten grows! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[plutosangel]

What a great story, but sorry to hear only one kitten survived. Do you know what happened to the others?

the vet said that the kittens were underweight to begin with and the mother was quite neglectful. She even refused to feed a few of the kittens. The surviving kitten was very aggressive with nursing. She would make sure that she got her fill even if it meant pushing away the other kittens. We tried to bottle feed but it wasn't easy and a lot of them would just not latch. The vet also said that mother cat wasn't too maternal - neither did she warm the kittens up too much nor did she care much about nursing. She spent a ton of time outside the box. We had to remind her and put her in the box ever so often. We did everything we could but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.