Toby vomiting and losing weight, fine otherwise

[mrsgreenjeens]

Ohhh that is horrible! I'm so sorry that happened, even 8 yrs ago. I know what you mean though :-(. Years ago when my mom was in the hospital for chemotherapy they punctured her lung bc they could not get the tube in right. And she was so weak even before that, she never really bounced back. Here are a few other Toby pix- one where he is chubby, and one last night when I was giving treats to my kitties. 

Wow, now that's some CAT room!  Look at all those boxes to play in/jump on.  Look at the cat trees!  OMG, my cats would be in 7th heaven

.  And the "flying" Toby in the first picture.  Be still my heart! 

  What a great picture!

Now, back to business. 

that it's not lympho, but what did the surgeon say it could be if it's not?

 

[barbb]

LOL that is the part of our kitchen where there is usually a kitchen table. But since we never used it, we converted that area to a large kitty play area. We got the boxes from CostCo since groceries are packed in them. I felt like I hit the jackpot when I found the Heinz ones that made a little tunnel with three together! We rearrange them everyday and they extend into our den where we have an enormous "snake" of brown wrapping paper that they all play in LOL.

My sister took the picture of "flying" Toby, he was jumping from the counter to his cat tree, you can actually see the tree in the other picture and the counter. She is a cameraman for the news in Philadelphia and was at my house taking care of me back when I had MY cancer- all better now. And she took gorgeous pix of my kitties then too. 

I started reading your thread Laurie and it sounds very much the same as our experience with Toby. I have to read more of it because I think it will help me a  lot along with the support info link.

I want to thank everyone for their advice and good wishes again. I can't write more now becuase I have to go to the adoption center and help the kitties there and Toby is on my keyboard and I was supposed to be there 20 minutes ago. I will write more later. Thank you everyone though! It is getting me through this time right now. 

 

[barbb]

Thank you Diane, after I read your suggestion I did put the soundscapes music channel on for Toby yesterday, and it seemed to really help him. He seemed achy and was on my PC early in the afternoon, and when I picked him up, he just started purring so I took him to the bedroom and cuddled with him. That is why I was late on my posts yesterday!

 

[barbb]

Wow, now that's some CAT room!  Look at all those boxes to play in/jump on.  Look at the cat trees!  OMG, my cats would be in 7th heaven

.  And the "flying" Toby in the first picture.  Be still my heart! 

  What a great picture!

Now, back to business. 

that it's not lympho, but what did the surgeon say it could be if it's not?

The surgeon didn't say what it could be if it isn't lymphosarcoma, since there is a 99% chance that it is lympho. They need to find out what type of lympho, I think. LDG was saying only 15% are small cell and those are very treatable. But there is large cell too and I have read that doesn't respond very well to chemo. 

It would be miraculous if it is not lymphosarcoma, I will pray for a miracle. Toby is such a sweet, loving, wonderful boy, he deserves a miracle. He has never lifted a claw to any person. I always have to watch out if he is around babies bc they could pull on him and he would do nothing. 

 

[barbb]

He didn't die immediately either, he was in a coma for 2 weeks and it was NOT pretty. And that doctor is still practicing. None of us will ever get over it. My sister turned into a big mess after that. They were together 38 years of marriage and together since children. sigh. anyway, Toby is so precious, also sending positive vibes your way. 

That is very sad! I can't believe they got away with it too :-(.

It is hard to believe sometimes, how things are in this world. I live by these words lately: "we must not be disheartened by human failure". 

Toby has not vomited lately and he seems to be eating ok, I am giving him his "treat" food, fancy feast and I ordered small pet multi vitamins and cell support from the 2docs pet wellness site. I will try putting this on his food or maybe just syringe it into his mouth with a lot of water. It is liver flavored, I just don't want him to start avoiding his favorite foods. I do notice he has a lot of stomach gurgling and may see about "upping" his pepsid. http://www.2docspethealth.com/green-label-formulas/cell-support-for-pets-200-gm.html

 

[ldg]

I don't remember how much Toby weighs now. But at around 10 pounds, Lazlo was on a 10mg pepcid a/c daily.

I'm still hoping for that miracle!

BTW, Lazlo had the large cell lympho. The literature, according to our oncologist, indicates that chemo sends it into remission about 60% of the time, but his experience is that it's really about 50% of the time. And "remission" means it's on average 8-9 months before tumor growth returns. We did it anyway, and when Lazlo completed 6 months of chemo, his tumor had gone into complete remission. We're hoping it stays that way, but if all it bought him will be 8-9 months.... :heart2:

 

[barbb]

Thank you Laurie, this is extremely helpful info too. I had thought Lazlo had the small cell and that if Toby's was large cell he would not be a good candidate- so this makes a lot of difference to know.

I'm glad you said that about the pepsid too. Toby is about 13lbs so maybe I will see about giving him more. I don't know if that will make it harder for him to digest/move food through his bowels though. I will ask the surgeon when we talk tomorrow and in the meantime I will give him more. 

I feel the same way about Toby, any significant time we can have with him is so worth it. He is such a sweetheart. I just hope we will have that opportunity!

 

[ldg]

Another FYI. :lol3: Lazlo had issues with constipation, and the pepcid didn't seem to have an impact. I also feed him raw food now, and because it takes more acid to digest, but I don't want him to develop ulcers again, we keep him on the pepcid a/c. I give him the one pill at night before bed - at least an hour after food (if you give it with food, it helps prevent problems with that meal, but it doesn't provide the 24 hour coverage it does if given at least an hour before and an hour after food). This helps him go through the night without too much acid build-up before the morning meal. :nod: When eating canned food, I had to give him pumpkin to help keep him regular, but that does increase the volume of stool. I think slippery elm is the better choice - it seems to help keep kitties regular without the volume impact of pumpkin. But now that he's on raw, I've found the right level of calcium to keep his stool "just right." (I don't feed bones, I use a calcium supplement) I think I already mentioned this, but if you need to reduce the volume of stool, you MUST go grain-free, low carb, high protein. And the volume of stool on raw just drops off the map. They poop maybe every 2-3 days now. Some continue to poop daily, just MUCH, much less. If you want to consider it, there are commercial raw foods that are guaranteed pathogen free.

and as always, more

P.S. Re: the small cell lympho and chemo. It goes into remission about 85% of the time, and once it's in remission, it stays there forever. :nod: So yeah, small cell is the better diagnosis of the two, but if Toby is good about pills and vet visits, then there is simply no reason not to try chemo if it is large cell. For kitties that stress for vet visits or for medication, chemo is a problem, period. It's a lot of work, and both appetite stimulants and anti-nausea medication are usually needed. And prednisolone at a low dose is also usually used in conjunction with chemo (we're keeping Lazlo on a low dose of pred now that chemo is done).

.....But I'm still praying for that miracle! !!!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Here are a few other Toby pix- one where he is chubby, and one last night when I was giving treats to my kitties. 

OH Barb :lol3: That picture of flying Toby is just priceless. Perfect shot Your house looks like my house.... cat furniture, boxes, toys - more things for cats than people! I have been keeping up here with your reports on Toby. Tons of vibes for Toby tonight.. and hugs to you... and hoping for that miracle :cross:

 

[barbb]

Another FYI.

Lazlo had issues with constipation, and the pepcid didn't seem to have an impact. I also feed him raw food now, and because it takes more acid to digest, but I don't want him to develop ulcers again, we keep him on the pepcid a/c. I give him the one pill at night before bed - at least an hour after food (if you give it with food, it helps prevent problems with that meal, but it doesn't provide the 24 hour coverage it does if given at least an hour before and an hour after food). This helps him go through the night without too much acid build-up before the morning meal.

When eating canned food, I had to give him pumpkin to help keep him regular, but that does increase the volume of stool. I think slippery elm is the better choice - it seems to help keep kitties regular without the volume impact of pumpkin. But now that he's on raw, I've found the right level of calcium to keep his stool "just right." (I don't feed bones, I use a calcium supplement)

I think I already mentioned this, but if you need to reduce the volume of stool, you MUST go grain-free, low carb, high protein. And the volume of stool on raw just drops off the map. They poop maybe every 2-3 days now. Some continue to poop daily, just MUCH, much less. If you want to consider it, there are commercial raw foods that are guaranteed pathogen free.

and as always, more

P.S. Re: the small cell lympho and chemo. It goes into remission about 85% of the time, and once it's in remission, it stays there forever.

So yeah, small cell is the better diagnosis of the two, but if Toby is good about pills and vet visits, then there is simply no reason not to try chemo if it is large cell. For kitties that stress for vet visits or for medication, chemo is a problem, period. It's a lot of work, and both appetite stimulants and anti-nausea medication are usually needed. And prednisolone at a low dose is also usually used in conjunction with chemo (we're keeping Lazlo on a low dose of pred now that chemo is done).
.....But I'm still praying for that miracle!

!!!!!!!!!

Toby is pretty laid back. He cries in the car all the time but I started giving him treats while in his carrier so this last time he was a little better. He is scared at the vet but not horrendous. And it is easy to give him medicine.

I gave him three half- pepsids today, so 15 mg total. I will do as you suggest as far as giving it to him 1 hour apart from meals.

Plus I am giving him a lot of laxatone tuna flavor to help move his stool since the tumor is distending his bowels.

I do want to switch him to raw food. What kind of raw do your kitties eat? I don't feed my kitties any beef. I give them mostly fish or chicken or turkey, natural balance wet. Toby loves sushi. Right now Toby is only eating fancy feast fish and royal canin 33 sensitive stomach crunchies because I want him to gain weight again, as much as possible before any treatments, without getting stopped up again. He got particular about his food after so much vomiting and tummy aches. Right now he is in front of me on the computer and I can hear his stomach gurgling because he ate just a few crunchies along with the laxatone I gave him. I can get some raw and start transitioning him over. One of our stores sells it but I don't know the brand or anything. 

 

[dianev66]

I am glad that the music helped him relax and feel a bit better.  As far as raw I feed Rad Cat and BooBoo really loves it.  It comes in Chicken, Turkey and Lamb and is a very simple, yet complete product.  I have tried to rotate to a few different brands but no luck and from what I have heard most cats love Rad Cat which is half the battle.  BooBoo ate canned and kibble for 12 years and I offered her Rad Cat and she licked her dish clean.  I slowly started giving her more raw and less of the other stuff and no she is completely transitioned to raw.  I will say that I tried to change her too quickly and it did give her diarrhea so I continued with smaller amounts and it worked.  Turkey is probably the easiest on the digestive system.

 

[ldg]

Barb, ask your vet about digestive enzymes. This helps them utilize more of the food, and should help him put on weight. :nod: Lazlo had been overweight, and had gone from 14 pounds to 10 pounds before he was diagnosed. His problem the last few months turned out to be nausea from the tumor in his tummy and ulcers. As soon as we put him on the anti-nausea med, his appetite picked up. And the appetite stimulant definitely helped. After a chemo treatment, his appetite would fall of that first couple of days, and I usually syringe fed him, at least some of his food, then. I used a/d. :nod:

One thing you can do right away is start Toby on a probiotic. Don't use fortiflora, it's not good, and doesn't have enough active cultures anyway. Any acidophilus supplement with 10 billion active cultures is fine. I get mine from the refrigerated section of the local health food store. This won't interfere with any meds or treatment and will help support a healthy gut flora. :nod:

Diane's right - Rad Cat is one of the best raw foods you could use. It can be expensive if you have to have it shipped - but worth it, IMO. With Toby's problem being GI-related, I think you'd want to avoid bones. That means either Rad Cat or Nature's Menu, and Rad Cat seems to be universally loved by kitties. :lol3: Mine liked Nature's Menu for a couple of days... and now I'm feeding the rest of it to the ferals. They both supplement with calcium instead of using bones, which is much easier for the kitties to digest, and I think you want that for Toby. :heart2:

Your local store probably carries Nature's Variety. It's available almost everywhere. I don't recommend this one for Toby, because they target 15% bone, and that can cause problems with constipation in a lot of cats. You definitely want to avoid that. You can use it - but you'd have to add raw meat to it to lower the meat:bone ratio.

I feed mine home made prey model raw at this point, but I don't use bone, I supplement with calcium. I feed chicken breast, chicken thigh, turkey breast, turkey thigh, goat, rabbit, pork, and venison. To make it complete nutritionally, I feed chicken liver, beef pancreas, beef kidney, and rabbit organs. I also feed duck, chicken, and turkey hearts (hearts are considered a muscle meat, not an organ). But two of my cats are still having trouble keeping some of the organs down. Interestingly, there is a solution for that.

Carolina just found a supplement that can be used to supplement just MEAT to make the meal complete and balanced! http://www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php I ordered some (used coupon FREESHIPJX) and it should be arriving today. I may use this for Sheldon and Tuxedo for the meals I feed with the organs they're having trouble with. It includes the probiotics AND the calcium.

But I would only feed Toby raw if he likes it. I would not try to force any change on him right now. :nod: Next time you're making dinner, offer him a little slice of chicken or something. See if he recognizes it as food. :lol3:

I transitioned mine by mixing commercial raw into their wet food. When they were at 100% raw, I offered them slices of raw meat (and they decided they liked that better, which is why I ended up going to home made).

And, of course, more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[finnlacey]

I personally don't like the barley and wheat grass in that product. Also, rosemary can once in awhile upset IBD tummies. Not always! But sometimes. I use Prozyme or Prozyme Plus. There's also Eaglepack Holistic Solutions that are in a chicken flavored powder and cats go nuts for it. Fortiflora has animal digest which is just plain gross. I managed to just pick up Rad Cat at a plant nursery near my house today! I was surprised but go on their site and do a zip code store search. You may be surprised to find it near you somewhere.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Barb, you're in the Chicago area, so won't have access to Radcat, since Lauren lives in that same vicinity and has searched and searched with no luck.  If you want to try it, your best bet is ordering from

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?avs|Pet+Type=Cats&avs|Department=Food&avs|Food+Type=Raw.  You might also be able to find some on-line coupons for them for your first purchase.

Continued

for your guy

 

[finnlacey]

You know what? If you give me 10 minutes I can put up a new coupon code on my site that I JUST now got for onlynaturalpets. You can go through my site and get a certain percentage off. Up to you. I'll just post that it's up in a few minutes.

 

[finnlacey]

Okay it's up. Just go to my site, click on food and then raw products or even any of the other food links and you'll see it on the right hand side underneath the link bars. 

 It's there if you need it. 

 

[ldg]

I personally don't like the barley and wheat grass in that product. Also, rosemary can once in awhile upset IBD tummies. Not always! But sometimes. I use Prozyme or Prozyme Plus. There's also Eaglepack Holistic Solutions that are in a chicken flavored powder and cats go nuts for it. Fortiflora has animal digest which is just plain gross. I managed to just pick up Rad Cat at a plant nursery near my house today! I was surprised but go on their site and do a zip code store search. You may be surprised to find it near you somewhere.

I know, neither do I, but they are powerful antioxidants (wheat grass and barley grass). But for use in occasional rotation, I don't have a problem with it.

Isn't Prozyme just digestive enzymes/probiotic? :dk:

I'll look into the Eaglepack Holistic Solutions. It's meant to make a meal of just meat complete? With calcium, etc?

Lisa, how wonderful of you to put up the code! Also, Lauren (feralvr) found that if you CALL OnlyNaturalPet, the shipping was much less than ordering online for the Rad Cat. There may have been or may be a calculator problem online? :dk:

 

[finnlacey]

Prozyme in itself is just probiotics but the Prozyme PLUS is probiotics and digest enzymes. you can get that also at onlynaturalpets so if you order the rad cat, use that coupon code for all of it. Some of their products are free shipping especially if you're a first time buyer. No, the Eaglepack is just probiotics but the taste is so good that it helps them eat! 

 

[ldg]

Oh gotcha. I wasn't recommending the Call of the Wild as a probiotic. It's a supplement that makes a meal of meat "complete and balanced" - it has calcium, vitamins, minerals, etc. It also happens to have probiotic. For people that want to do home made, but can't feed bones and their cats won't tolerate organs, it seems a reasonable solution. I'll only be using it for the organ meals that Sheldon and Tuxie have been having trouble keeping down. :nod: (2 out of 21 meals a week. ).

 

[finnlacey]

 I wasn't paying complete attention, sorry. LOL. So is Rad Cat not a completely balanced meal?