The well-known problem of IBD or lymphoma and pancreatitis

[arinlars]

Lovemycalico, my Mimi was always around 4kg so her weight that she has is acceptable. When everything else failed, like prednisolone and feeding her science plan zd I took her to a holistic vet where she was given probiotics, enzymes and b12 shots and we switched a loot of foods, like a lot! Now she is on dehydrated raw food which she likes but of course she loves my other cat's food too which is quality food but not super good for her, and I am going to switch to all raw dehydrated. The reason because I chose dehydrated is that I don't have enough time to defrost food and she does not like cold food. She stopped diarrhea and vomiting, of course there is some smelly farting now and then . Try raw but read a lot of articles how to switch etc. I m not a vet so everything I write is just suggestions from Other members from this awesome forum.

 

[fuzzycat]

Hi,

There has been many excellent posts, so I doubt I can add anything but I have gone through the whole is it lymphoma vs IBD nightmare with my oldest cat, so I can relate.

I was told that Rikki had lymphoma, he had about a year to live and he was placed on prednisolone. I knew that prednisolone is used to treat mast cell disease (a type of cancer) in dogs, so using pred. to treat cancer in a cat did not surprise me. I was also told by this particular vet not to waste my time and money taking him to a specialist. But, there is an excellent veterinary oncologist in my town. I had worked with her before and really liked her, so I took Rikki to her anyway. By the time I got Rikki into see the oncologist he had lost even more weight, he was throwing up and had sever diarrhea. The oncologist said she felt at that point in time he did not have lymphoma.   While it was difficult to know for sure  she believed he did have IBD. She did not recommend a biopsy for the exact reasons "Quiet" stated above. She said it is thought that IBD is a precursor to lymphoma so at some point he may develop lymphoma.She also discovered he had developed diabetes from the prednisolone.

I switched vets and came onto this site for help. I was directed to an excellent website that gave all sorts of useful information on cat food and diet. I have forgotten the name of this  site but I am sure others in the forum will know it (sorry, it has been awhile). After doing some basic research  I decided to take the risk and put him on a raw food diet. I figured I had nothing to loose he was so sick. Low and behold, between the diet change and managing his diabetes he improved.

I should point out that when I first started to research diets for Rikki, I felt completely overwhelmed. There was so much information. I am not a vet, I don't have a background in nutrition or medicine. What do I know? But I just started to make changes and then watched to see if Rikki was improving. It was a process.

Keeping him on the raw food diet proved to be a big challenge because he did not like it. He is a junk food kitty. He had to eat before he received his shot of insulin so sometimes he was able to hold me over a barrel, so to speak, food wise.  By experimenting I discovered that if I kept him off all grains and all seafood he did much better.   I have since been told that seafood is known to be very inflammatory. If I could get him to eat rabbit or duck he did even better, but I could never  get him to eat those flavors regularly. Even my feral who ate bunnies outside turned his nose up at the canned rabbit.  At one point I even tried making his own food using cooked meats and an additive called Balance It. He wouldn't go for that either (But he loves Purina supermarket food).

After a about 10 months, his diabetes was in remission. I was able to take him off of insulin.

However,  I was still faced with a daily battle of getting him to eat what was good for him and keep his weight up (he can drop weight fast). I felt I was on a roller coaster. I would cave and give him cooked turkey one day and then it would take me a week to get him back to eating his regular diet.  I finally decided to put him on a drug called Lukerin (sp?). This was not done because we had a confirmed diagnosis of lymphoma but because prednisolone was not an option and it was considered the safest alternative.  It is expensive, but it works and has eliminated the ups and downs we were having before. I give him 1 pill every 3 days which is at a slightly lower dosage than normal. The normal dosage is 1 pill every 2 days.  I now have him on canned grain free foods. He  doesn't like the canned as well as his kitty crack, but he eats it.

The reality is Rikki is 14. I need to think about his quality of life and find a healthy balance for both of us. If I can get him to 15, given everything he has been through and he is happy, then I am thrilled. I can't ask for much more than that.

If nothing else, I have learned to get second opinions. I have learned to talk to different people and to do the research myself.   And I have learned that diet does matter. I knew a quality diet was important before, but I would have never believed it would have made such a significant difference.

Good Luck

 

[arinlars]

Excellent post fuzzycat!!

Rikki is awesome!

 

[fuzzycat]

Thanks! His mother was a stray who had a litter in our garage. We lost her to cancer about 5 years ago. It took him a long time to bounce back. I am amazed he has made it this far, but I guess nobody  told him he was suppose to die.  It's all good now.

I forgot to mention that we have done B-12 shots too. There were very helpful. Definitely a good suggestion.

 

[arinlars]

Mimi is throwing up all night for some reason. The vet called me on Friday and she said to give her the prednisolone every other day but that did not help obviously

The I think she was just sick because the raw dehydrated food was out for so long and it got bad? Poor Mimi.

Any tips with vomiting? I only only for diarrhea the vomit is new

 

[fuzzycat]

Did you double check to make sure there was no hair or bits of something else in the vomit. Rikki doesn't throw up big hair balls, just little pieces of fur. Also he is something of a pica kitty. I have to be careful with garbage bags because he will eat the red plastic draw strings. He is just kind of oral.

When needed in the past I have picked up anti- nausea medication from my vet. I don't have any holistic tricks. But, I wouldn't dismiss the vomiting. It could be a sign that there is a more serious problem.

Do you  have enough of a relationship with your vet that you can call and ask , before spending the money  and energy and stress to take him in.

Good luck

 

[arinlars]

Hi,

Mimi's stopped vomiting. I did a research and gave her slippery elm bark. She was throwing up food, then silly Mimi she ate again and threw up. I think it was because was of the food, too many hours outside and got bad, and the prednisolone that I gave her every other day. Vet said I should give her like I did, every day.

Now she feels fine.

Her blood work from 1 month ago was perfect,

 

[goholistic]

Sebastian relapsed when we tried to reduce his pred dose from every day to every other day. He's been on it daily ever since.

Keep in mind with slippery elm bark that it should be given a few hours away from any medications as it can interfere with their absorption.

I'm glad she stopped vomiting. It's so nerve-wracking.

 

[emilyann]

Hi @arinlars

I'm currently struggling with the decision of either continuing Prednisolone, adding Leukeran or doing a biopsy to confirm the Small Cell Lymphoma that the internal medicine vet suggested (was diagnosed with IBD 2 years ago).  I read this entire thread and there is a lot of great information to help me figure it out. It's been a little over a month since you posted in this thread so I was wondering how your kitty is doing at this point? 

 

[myrnafaye]

Hi, Emily Ann, I read your post and did a little background reading on your cat.

My Obi was in the same predicament as your cat AND he had a bout with low grade pancreatitis.  The vets I spoke with - mostly specialists - told me the same things.  The specialists - three of them - more or less thought Obi had SCL.  Obi has been on pred, B12  a rabbit diet for several months.  A few weeks ago I added in fortiflora, and as far as I can tell, the hairball vomiting has ceased.

It is my understanding that cats with SCL LOSE WEIGHT.  Please, someone, correct me if I am wrong in this;  Obi has not lost weight and he seems fine now.  I dont know how old  your cat is - Obi is 15 - that and finances precluded doing a biopsy.  There is something terribly wrong for vets to stress a procedure that is financially untenable for many of us.  However, that is not the issue.  The issue, for me,  is that specialists are not always right.        

 

[arinlars]

Hi emilyAnn

So it depends from your kitty's symptoms, age and your finances. What is your cat eating? Did you do another ultrasound? Was she fine and then after 2 years relapsed?

Mimi is doing excellent. Gaining weight and being a happy cat. I chose pred because I trusted my instinct but also because the vet at first didn't tell me that when I start prednisolone it will mask the symptoms. I thought oh ok let's try it and if she gets worse ill do biopsy, but it turned out well.

I cannot tell anyone what to do. But I trusted my instinct and my vet #1. So if you read my other posts, I have one regular vet which she is awesome, then one internist and one holistic. I know, it's too much but I did it for a reason, normal vet because she is close by my place, the Internist is specialized in kitty bellies and the holistic because she helped my kitty a lot with all of her problems. She gave Mimi enzymes and probiotics and she suggested the b12 shots which helped too. She also so does kitty acupuncture which helped her pain at first I guess a little bit. In the end I trusted my regular vet so we have been through a lot.

@myrnafaye is right, specialist is not always right but you need to think things through and give all the info to your vet so you can decide together.

Mimi was also on a special diet , reform nature variety instinct venison limited ingredient because carageenan and guar gum is bad for bellies and I wanted something simple and a novel protein.then we slowly began dehydrated raw and she stayed on that.

All that with the foods and the vets I found it in this awesome forum. If it wasn't for this forum I would be lost and who knows what, so you guys rock an day you are the best! I thank you!

 

[myrnafaye]

@arinlars I agree that this site and its members ROCK.  If not for this site, I might not have known about B12, and probiotics; I would not have known about certain additives; and, I would not have felt supported in my anxiety by other cat owners who are also mad for their cats!  Thank you all.  Emily Ann, keep us posted about your kitty.

 

[fuzzycat]

Hi Emily Ann,

I would think twice before doing a biopsy. They are invasive, expensive and even if you can confirm cancer it won't significantly affect your treatment plan. My veterinary oncologist uses ultra sound (which isn't cheap either) and blood work. I don't remember exactly what she looked at in the blood work but it had to do with the proportion of immature white cells to fully developed white cells. Maybe someone else on the site has a better understanding of that aspect. I was told  that IBD and pancretitiis will cause a similar profile in the blood work so my oncologist did not get overly concerned if the numbers were below a certain level and there was nothing definitive on the ultra sound.

Generally, the treatment plan begins with prednisolone. My primary vet at the time started Rikki on a high dose. I think that is part of why he developed diabetes. But, diabetes is always a concern for anyone, people included, who are on prednisolone. It was just that my vet missed it. But then he had missed the prancretitis  as well. I have had other cats on prednisolone for years for stomatitis and they tolerated it well.

While I have the utmost respect for veterinarians they are not gods and they don't always know. I was told that Rikki would be dead within a year by my primary vet. That was over 2 years ago. The oncologist told me that she certainly would put Rikki on a monitor closely list, but his blood work was far below what she sees with cats with active cancer.  I had a German Shepard once, who when I went to spay her (I had to wait until she had a litter as part of the condition from the breeder, so she was older) the vet saw what he believed was cancer. He wanted to put her down on the spot but because I was at work and he was unable to get a hold of me to get my  permission.  Against the advise of the vet I took her home. Actually, that vet was angry at me because he was so convinced she was dying and would be in pain. She lived another 5 years. A good friend of mine, also a veterinarian but who ran a diagnostic laboratory, said it sounded like she had something called a Valley Fever Mass, which would be a benign. I don't know why I refused to put my dog down other than I wasn't ready. Obviously, she wasn't either.

I still have Rikki on the Leukeran. I am giving it every 3 to 4 days. He has put on weight, but very slowly. His activity level has increased and he has movements of being down right playful. Not bad for an old man. I have switched his diet again. My semi-feral had developed urinary crystals, so I had switched him onto Science Diet CD for high stress cats. It has milk solids in it which helps calm cats down. Nate is very neurotic. The CD has helped calm him. He is still neurotic but the intensity has been dialed back. Because Rikki had started to mark I decided to try the CD on him as well. I suspected Rikki was being territorial as I had recently taken in 3 foster kittens, but I reasoned maybe he had crystals too. He and Nate had been on identical diets. I had taken them both off the raw diet because Rikki did not like it and had been feeding grain free canned foods, like Natures Variety, Wellness and Blue Buffalo ever since. Diet does contribute towards urinary crystals.

Surprisingly, Rikki is doing well on the CD. His stomach has been good. He eats it well and he is slowly putting on weight. I don't know if he did have crystals of if the calming affect is helping. But something is working.  Now my big thing is beside diet, controlling stress is important. I am sorry I took in the foster kittens. I have been working with a rescue organization and taking them to pets marts every weekend, but I suspect they are ours now. Live and learn.

My bottom line now is you need to control the inflammation in their stomach. Start with the least invasive, least problematic means possible (I am struggling for the right word here). Work with diet, medications, supportive care (like the B-12 and probiotics) and stress management. But, get the inflammation down. I think if I were to go through it again, I would have put him on the Leukeran sooner.

Good luck, let me know what you decide and how your cat is doing.

 

[emilyann]

@Fuzzycat  @arinlars  @myrnafaye  I don't want to take over the original thread topic so I'll respond to all of you over in my original thread. Here's a link!

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/287030/...s-inflammatory-bowel-disease-the-great-debate

 

[arinlars]

Either Mimi or my husbands cat threw up a lot of food. My guess is my other cat but I'm not sure since they are not talking and they act playfull. Either way I gave both slippery elm bark in their food. Mimi had runny soft poop once but it went away after giving her some pumpkin. I guess it's the ups and downs for ibd :/

 

[myrnafaye]

Arinlars:  Isnt it the (bleep) when you have to get down on all fours and analyze whose vomitus it is? or whose stool?  or whose HAIRBALL?  I feel like I am reading tea leaves!  maybe they should just sign their names and get  it over with!  OMG...

 

[arinlars]

Hey all!

I just wanted to update Mimi's progress and I did not do it so long! I'm so sorry. I also created another post instead of posting here (oops) but here it goes.

Mimi had ups and downs but nothing serious as the chronic diarrhea problem.

Mostly vomiting now and then, but when IBD flails up the vet told me to increase the prendisolone and then decrease it after 2 weeks. I also give her slippery elm band foods from natures variety instinct the novel proteins like venison.

The only concerning problem we had was that 3 weeks ago she vomited coffee grounds . Of course I panicked and rushed to the vet where she told me it was gastroenteritis or ulcer with IBD flare up . Must also have been areas because we moved.

We got Cerenia and sucralfate and tried to relax. Since then Mimi is not so energetic . We play but she isn't so excited and had often the bread loaf position. Now both her and merlin my husbands cat have constipation because I was experimenting with commercial raw food but I'm switching to wet food .

Oh and every 3 months she makes a blood GI panel test which it always comes great .

 

[myrnafaye]

Happy to hear of Mimi's progress!  that is great news.  I cant recall if you are giving her a probiotic.  That may help maintain her gut health.    I give Obi and Mittens the NV rabbit.  they both do well on it.  Obi gets   5 mg pred and does well on that too.  I think your experience and mine underscores that IBD is often IBD and not lymphoma, but that it needs to be attended to when it flares up.

What are slippery elm band foods?

 

[arinlars]

Hi Myrnafye!

I give her probiotics and prebiotics and slap enzymes. The slippery elm bark is in powder form and I dilute it with water. Also her anal glands were full so we went to the vet for that.

If it was lymphoma she would have been bad no ?

 

[myrnafaye]

Yes, I tried slippery elm bark.  I was told it interferes with absorption, so to give the pred at least two hours from the slb.  What are slap enzymes?