The Introduction to Rad Cat Frozen Raw

[carolina]

I do pretty much the same thing as Laurie, except that I use Krill, so it is one gel cap per kitty.
It is important to put the krill on the meat instead of on the powder, otherwise it will slide right off to the plate - Krill sticks to the bottom of the plate and they don't lick it off!! - little tricks of the trade :lol3:
Also, instead of drizzling the juice on the top of the meat, powder, I carefully put it back on the sides so it doesn't wash off all the powders - sometimes they don't drink all the juice, and I need them to eat all that powder goodness :nod:

 

[otto]

CAN YOU HEAR ME SCREAMING WITH JOY?????

Mazy ate every scrap of her chicken thigh. The first offering was three shreds that totaled .05 ounce. I offered it to her plain first, but of course she said no and asked for Vets-Best. A moderate dusting of the V-B and she ate every shred and licked the bowl (V-B dust no doubt)

So I gave it to her again, another .05 ounce. She again asked for the Vets-Best, but I put only a token, maybe two or at the most three little grains of dust on each shred.

She ate them all up and licked the bowl again!!!

Queen Eva, as I expected, ate all of her .33 ounce, except for one small bit no garnish needed. She always leaves something in her dish (as did Ootay who sent her and Tolly who raised her)

Jennie, also, ate all of her thigh up, plus what Queen Eva left, plus the rest of Mazy's portion (about .1 ounce)

So I need to start supplementing Jennie right away, now that she is going to have more than 15%. Will a few days matter, or should I wait to increase her until I have the egg shell? I already have taurine. Could I use my own eggshells? I actually have some, saved from hard boiled eggs only, last spring. Someone told me to put them in the garden to work against some blight, I saved them but never used them.

How much taurine for one ounce of meat?

Oh I have Welactin, I can use that while I do some investigation on Krill.

 

[otto]

CAN YOU HEAR ME SCREAMING WITH JOY?????
Mazy ate every scrap of her chicken thigh. The first offering was three shreds that totaled .05 ounce. I offered it to her plain first, but of course she said no and asked for Vets-Best. A moderate dusting of the V-B and she ate every shred and licked the bowl (V-B dust no doubt)
So I gave it to her again, another .05 ounce. She again asked for the Vets-Best, but I put only a token, maybe two or at the most three little grains of dust on each shred.
She ate them all up and licked the bowl again!!!
Queen Eva, as I expected, ate all of her .33 ounce, except for one small bit no garnish needed. She always leaves something in her dish (as did Ootay who sent her and Tolly who raised her)
Jennie, also, ate all of her thigh up, plus what Queen Eva left, plus the rest of Mazy's portion (about .1 ounce)
So I need to start supplementing Jennie right away, now that she is going to have more than 15%. Will a few days matter, or should I wait to increase her until I have the egg shell? I already have taurine. Could I use my own eggshells? I actually have some, saved from hard boiled eggs only, last spring. Someone told me to put them in the garden to work against some blight, I saved them but never used them.
How much taurine for one ounce of meat?
Oh I have Welactin, I can use that while I do some investigation on Krill.

AND most importantly...... 15 minutes later....she kept it all down!

 

[ldg]

and YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can use your eggshell if you have a way to powder it up. On the other hand, the amounts are small enough still that I don't think it would hurt her to wait until the other eggshell powder and mini measuring spoons arrive.

As to the taurine, I don't balance per meal, because the meat itself has enough. The amount I use is just for .... "insurance." :nod: Carolina uses a lot more than I do - I'm not sure if she adds it per meal, or once a day. :dk:

 

[otto]

okay thanks....what are you talking about here?

Then I take my little mini-spoons (the "Smidgen" is 1/32 teaspoon), and I sprinkle one 1/32 on top of each one's meat. For Billy and Ming Loy, who eat less than an ounce, I don't make the Smidgen even, they get a touch less. I estimate the 3/4 of the 1/32 teaspoon for Billy's small meals. Then I take the 1/64 spoon (the "drop"), and I don't make it even, but estimate about 2/3 of it (because the bigger kitties get 0.3oz of meat on top of the 1 ounce), and I sprinkle that onto Tuxie's food, Sheldon's food, Spooky's food, and Chumley's food.

1/32 of what?

oh and, Lauren and Carolina, I am reading and absorbing and appreciating your posts too. I am soaking up all the encouragement and support you are all giving.

 

[ldg]

the eggshell powder. Sorry about that! The calcium!

 

[otto]

Thank you for all the information and I am still trying to process it all. Still, as I mentioned I do better with baby step questions and answers, so thank you in advance for your patience.

Here is today's question, because I am still not quite understanding what I need to do for Jennie as she goes to one ounce of meat a day.

This is how I understood it: If Jennie eats one ounce of muscle meat a day (gizzard or thigh, or sometimes there may be a heart) I need to give her 1/32 tsp of calcium, every day with that meat?

~Does it have to the WITH the meat or could I mix the egg shell into one of her canned meals, to make it easier?

~with one ounce of muscle meat, is that ALL she really needs to balance it, is the calcium? And that is every single day she has one ounce of muscle meat (thigh or gizzard), she must have that amount of calcium?

~no other supplementation is needed for the sake of balance, even though she is not eating any organ?

I realize I have asked the same question, in three different ways. But, while I am intelligent person generally speaking, I am easily overwhelmed and confused when it comes to this, for some reason, and I just really do need this much help.

 

[feralvr]

Mazy gets 1 ounce of Rad Cat raw a day, and the rest is canned, but only 2 brands, one formula of each. The 2 brands is only a recent accomplishment, in fact recent since starting the raw. Up until the past week or so, that second brand was a kind Mazy loved, but would always regurgitate. Not any more. She eats it with gusto even, and keeps it down. Her body is healing from that c/d kibble..

Your comment on the Hills C/D kibble struck me because that is exactly where I was with Pipsqueak summer of 2011. The C/D kibble that he was put on from the vet is what put him over the edge. It was awful. Vomiting and VERY severe, painful chin folliculitis, gunky eyes, and did a lot of sneezing. Also, my other cat's were eating the C/D too because I had to leave it out all the time. Perkins, Presley and Perla developed chin acne as well. It was a terrible time for me. As soon as I started transitioning to the raw diet, things started to clear and my cat's seemed alive again. And in the beginning, they were only eating about 25% raw and I saw progress. So your comment that their bodies are healing from the C/D kibbles was exactly how I was feeling. Such a shame too, because you trust what your vet recommends in feeding a diet to treat a health condition. I remember years ago ALL of my cat's were eating Hill's W/D for years because of urinary tract issues in only one of my cat's. The others had to eat it too. I think back to all of the vomiting, and horrible body condition (very thin) as they aged. I blamed it on old age, not knowing any better. I actually have tears in my eyes right now as I write this because I think I could have saved those kitties from suffering by vomiting so much (told it was hairballs and just keep giving Laxatone ) and extended their lives past 13 or 14 by just feeding them an appropriate species related diet. Breaks my heart that they suffered needlessly :sobbing:, but I know better now. :nod:

 

[feralvr]

oh and, Lauren and Carolina, I am reading and absorbing and appreciating your posts too. I am soaking up all the encouragement and support you are all giving.

I am like you in a way after reading some of your posts :lol3: I have to take one question and answer at a time and absorb it to get a better understanding of the whole picture. Like a puzzle One piece at a time. :nod: I do feed some fresh meat, only chicken breast and thigh. OH and duck hearts from HT. I absolutely LOVE to hear my cat's chew on meat for some reason. Makes me SO happy :happy3: I don't supplement those meat scraps though because I feed all commercially made raw. So I can't really give you advice on feeding Frankenprey BUT can offer TONS of support and cheer you on AND I did think I heard a scream of JOY yesterday in the wind OH MAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[carolina]

Thank you for all the information and I am still trying to process it all. Still, as I mentioned I do better with baby step questions and answers, so thank you in advance for your patience. Ask away Gail
Here is today's question, because I am still not quite understanding what I need to do for Jennie as she goes to one ounce of meat a day.
This is how I understood it: If Jennie eats one ounce of muscle meat a day (gizzard or thigh, or sometimes there may be a heart) I need to give her 1/32 tsp of calcium, every day with that meat? That's correct.... That's per ounce of meat :nod:
~Does it have to the WITH the meat or could I mix the egg shell into one of her canned meals, to make it easier? In theory It could be with the canned, as the calcium can be balanced over time - however IMHO it is safer to be balanced/given with the meat because if she doesn't eat the meat, you will be in a situation where she was given too much Calcium.... So I always balance the meals, each meal :nod: You will see, it is easy, not too much powder at all and since it doesn't have a taste, they don't really notice.... Easy peasy :nod:
~with one ounce of muscle meat, is that ALL she really needs to balance it, is the calcium? And that is every single day she has one ounce of muscle meat (thigh or gizzard), she must have that amount of calcium? I like to give Taurine and O3 - I give Taurine with every meal, and 500mg of Krill oil a day, sprilkled over the meat. The absolutely necessary is the Ca. Taurine is being on the safe side - I do recommend it.
~no other supplementation is needed for the sake of balance, even though she is not eating any organ? Isn't she eating Rad Cat? There is quite a bit of liver in there.....
I realize I have asked the same question, in three different ways. But, while I am intelligent person generally speaking, I am easily overwhelmed and confused when it comes to this, for some reason, and I just really do need this much help.

 

[otto]

Hi Lauren. Well I'm not doing frankenprey either.

Mazy and Queen Eva will continue on their combination of commercial raw and canned food. I started small chunks with them because I want to be able to have them eat some gizzard a few times a week for a dental benefit, but I don't anticipate either of them eating more than 15% of plain meat in any given day. They will continue with one ounce of Rad Cat raw (each) and Queen Eva has the addition serving of Stella&Chewy most days, too, plus their canned foods.

Jennie will continue on raw meat home prepared, and canned food, but I want to put her on a full ounce of raw a day, instead of the half ounce she's getting now. Since the way I figured it, a half ounce was one sixth (15%) of her intake, I was comfortable not worrying about balance. But to put her on one ounce, I can't seem to get my head around what exactly that one ounce needs, to be balanced, so there are my three questions, above.

Yes, Mazy was on that c/d kibble for 6 1/2 years. Over those years I tried repeatedly to get her off it. I tried to get her to eat the canned c/d. She refused, even though she has always loved most canned foods. I also several times tried putting her back on commercial canned foods, but she always ended up having trouble again, until this last time. The difference this time (well, back in January) was the regurgitating had gotten to the point where it was daily. Poor Mazy was puking once or twice a day on that food. It was desperation. But what I did differently (besides the choice of canned) was, I stopped adding water to her canned food. My well water is very high in minerals. I simply stopped mixing water into her canned food, and she is fine. But all those years on the c/d, her digestion was really messed up. She could only eat ONE single canned food, for the longest time. But once I started her on the Rad Cat raw, even only one ounce a day, her improvement has been very dramatic.

So I will continue to await those in the know about my questions on Jennie's need for supplementation. I know they've answered me already, but the answers came with too much other information, it's just too much all at once. Right now I just want to know exactly what Jennie needs, if she is eating one ounce of gizzard/heart or thigh a day, and the rest canned food.

 

[ldg]

[quote name="otto" url="/t/248249/the-introduction-to-rad-cat-frozen-raw/60#3255531"]
This is how I understood it: If Jennie eats one ounce of muscle meat a day (gizzard or thigh, or sometimes there may be a heart) I need to give her 1/32 tsp of calcium, every day with that meat? [/quote]

Yes, once you get over the 15% of total intake, it's best to balance the food. The phosphorus in the meat does need to be balanced with the calcium. :nod:
.

[quote name="otto" url="/t/248249/the-introduction-to-rad-cat-frozen-raw/60#3255531"]~Does it have to the WITH the meat or could I mix the egg shell into one of her canned meals, to make it easier?[/quote]

There's no reason you can't mix it with her canned. If she'll eat it on the meat, I personally think it's best to balance them together, but the additional calcium does not need to be fed at the exact same time as the meat. The nutrients work together, but I do not think a few hours one way or the other is going to alter the outcome. I'll explain more below.
.

[quote name="otto" url="/t/248249/the-introduction-to-rad-cat-frozen-raw/60#3255531"]~with one ounce of muscle meat, is that ALL she really needs to balance it, is the calcium? And that is every single day she has one ounce of muscle meat (thigh or gizzard), she must have that amount of calcium? [/quote]

This is where "need" approaches the realm of opinion. Theoretically, to eat a balanced raw diet, the meat needs to be fed with calcium, liver, and a second secreting organ.
.

[quote name="otto" url="/t/248249/the-introduction-to-rad-cat-frozen-raw/60#3255531"]~no other supplementation is needed for the sake of balance, even though she is not eating any organ? [/quote]

One ounce is ... 20% of her daily intake? 25%? 33%? When I transitioned to chunks, they stopped eating ANY commercial raw, and I was no longer feeding canned. I hadn't introduced any organs - I didn't have a freezer to store things for them. Getting a freezer became imperative. But for a little while there, all they were eating was meat and a calcium supplement. As soon as I got a freezer, I was able to order from HT, but they only ship Mon - Wed. And THEN I had to introduce the organs. So they went a couple of weeks without any organs. I chose not to freak out about it. I felt a couple of weeks wasn't going to do any damage. It didn't occur to me to feed them the freeze dried liver I had here - I use(d) it as a topper. They all love freeze dried liver.

The short answer is, yes, she needs the other organs for the food to be nutritionally "complete." But if it takes a little while to get there, I don't think any short or long-term damage will be done.
.

[quote name="otto" url="/t/248249/the-introduction-to-rad-cat-frozen-raw/60#3255531"] I realize I have asked the same question, in three different ways. But, while I am intelligent person generally speaking, I am easily overwhelmed and confused when it comes to this, for some reason, and I just really do need this much help.[/quote]

Trust me, we DO understand. We were there. It's the health and welfare of our babies. :heart2:


********************************

I know you're familiar with prey model raw. 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other secreting organ (where gizzards and hearts are muscle organs, and for the purposes of balancing meals are treated as meat, not secreting organs). Most PMR feeders DO provide other... "supplements," in the form of eggs and/or sardines and/or crickets.

In the wild, cats eat whole prey. Thus they get a balanced and complete meal each time they eat anything. But with the meats, bones, and organs available to us to feed prey model raw, the nutrition is typically balanced over the course of a week, not daily and not with each meal. Bones are typically fed only 3-4 times a week; organs are usually split into several meals, not fed with each meal. The amounts are so small, it would be very difficult to add, let's say, liver and kidney at each meal. I feed 1.3 ounce meals. That would require just 0.065 ounces of liver and the same amount of kidney with each meal, and I'd have to reduce the meat to 1.17 ounces, as they'd be eating 0.13 total secreting organs. It's much easier to provide four meals a week that are part meat/part organ (two meals a week with liver, two meals a week with kidney).

Now - I don't use bones. Carolina and I use a "made up" version of prey model raw: boneless frankenprey. :lol3: So we feed 90% meat, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ. Only Carolina doesn't feed the other secreting organ, and three of my cats don't or can't eat either raw liver or the second secreting organ. We use freeze dried liver for them. I'm comfortable with this - only I bump the amount of liver to what would be equivalent to 10%, rather than 5%, given the lack of that 2nd secreting organ. I, personally, am comfortable with this, because most commercial raw foods do not provide a second secreting organ. They provide more liver - up to 20%.

Because we use a calcium supplement, each meal we feed is balanced with calcium and phosphorus at the time of the meal. But Prey Model Raw feeders using bone balance the phosphorus in the meat with the calcium over the course of a week (typically), not daily.

Some people, like WhollyCat and mschauer, feed ground food. One of the reasons is because they prefer the concept that each meal is balanced, as a cat's diet naturally would be. :nod:

So how you handle a calcium supplement, liver, and a second secreting organ really has to do with your comfort level in what and how you want your cats to eat.

I don't think it's responsible to recommend people not feed a second secreting organ. Yet it is a choice I make for three of my cats. (Well, technically two, because I use Call of the Wild for Lazlo at most meals). I haven't found ANYTHING I can do to get Spooky to eat kidney. And I can get Sheldon to eat it, but I haven't successfully gotten kidney to STAY down. I haven't tried for a couple of months... maybe it's time to try again. :dk: But I make up for that lack of kidney by feeding him more (freeze dried) liver.

I also give the cats a raw egg yolk twice a week. They don't usually finish it (other than Billy, Ming Loy, and Chumley), but they eat some of it; sometimes most of it. And those are also nutrition-packed "treats:" I do not alter the amount of food at meals on "egg yolk" days; I feed them in addition to the meals, so I think of them as "treats," even though I believe they are an important part of their whole nutritional profile. That said, I don't do anything to "force" the cats to finish the egg yolk. They all like it enough to eat some, and I'm good with that.

I also still offer the cats canned sardines (water, no salt added) once a week. Most are not in love with them - Spooky, Ming Loy, and Chumley are the only ones that typically finish their portion - even Billy doesn't finish them. :lol3: But they provide omegas, calcium, and I don't know what else - but they're also "nutrition packed" "treats." I basically split two cans between the 8 of them (there are usually 4-5 sardines in one can). I do provide omega 3s in the form of krill and salmon oil (depending on the cat), and I provide their calcium needs with a supplement, so I'm not overly concerned if they don't finish their sardines.

I think many PMR feeders also provide raw eggs and canned sardines as part of the total menu. Many also feed live crickets: these are high in choline. I have no way to feed live crickets: I'm not sure the cats would kill and eat them. :dk: But egg yolks are high in choline; this is one reason I feed them.

SO.... the summary of all of this is.... when feeding PMR, the individual meals usually aren't balanced. The "nutritional package" is usually balanced over a period of a week.

Yes, the phosphorus in the meat DOES need to be balanced with the calcium, in whatever form that calcium is provided. Is it essential it be provided at the meal of meat? No.

Yes, to feed a nutritionally complete diet, liver and a second secreting organ should be fed in the correct proportion. Is it imperative this happen during the transition? IMO, no, it doesn't have to be done immediately. It can be introduced over time. Ideally, that introduction happens sooner rather than later, but even if it takes a couple of weeks or a month, ESPECIALLY if the kitties ARE eating commercial raw and/or canned, and the meat you're balancing is just a portion of their diet,and it's balanced with the calcium, I think this takes the pressure of the timing of that introduction of liver and another secreting organ.

If meat, calcium supplement, liver and another secreting organ are fed such that they are only a portion of the diet, how important are other supplements - like an omega 3, crickets, sardines, egg yolk, etc? I don't have an answer to that question. I don't have a way to feed crickets, so I don't feed them. If I did, and my cats liked them, I'd feed them. If my cats didn't like sardines, I wouldn't bother feeding them because I am providing an omega 3 supplement. If my cats didn't like egg yolks, I wouldn't feed them. I tried feeding eggs twice a week - four would get yolks, four would get whites, and I'd switch the 2nd time I offered them during the week. But no one likes the white. So I don't feed it.

Is the diet I feed my cats ideal? Definitely not. But I know they're getting the essentials and I think it's leaps and bounds healthier than any "AAFCO complete and balanced" commercially produced canned food. I stressed over getting them to eat egg white and kidney and to finish their sardines.... until I realized that many commercial raw foods don't provide that 2nd secreting organ; some don't include egg, many include no omega 3 source, and none provide crickets - and most provide no choline supplement. :lol3:

For instance, Darwin's. Here's the chicken ingredients: Free Range Chicken, Ground Chicken Bone, Chicken Hearts, Chicken Liver, Psyllium, Kelp, Salmon Oil, Catnip.

No 2nd organ, no choline.

Here's Fegnion ingredients: Free-Range Whole Chicken and finely Ground Raw Chicken Bone, Free-Range Chicken Heart, Free-Range Chicken Liver, Filtered Water, Free-Range Organic Chicken Egg Yolk , Free-Range Chicken Gizzard, North Atlantic Sardine Oil, Taurine.

Here's Feline's Pride: Chicken, with chicken liver, gizzards, hearts, organic egg yolk, filtered water, taurine, salmon oil, B vitamins (thiamine hydrochloride, riboflavin, niacinamide, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-calcium, panthothenate, p-aminobenzoic acid, chlorine bitartrate, inositol, biotin, folic acid, vitamin B-12 supplement), L-lysine, L-arginine

Yes, choline: no 2nd secreting organ

Here is Nature's Variety: Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

No choline, no 2nd secreting organ

Paw Naturaw: Organic chicken and ground organic chicken bone, organic chicken heart, organic chicken liver, organic chicken gizzard, organic celery, organic carrot, organic sweet potato, organic broccoli, organic apple, organic squash, organic flax seed, organic safflower oil, organic parsley, organic cranberry, organic kelp, sea salt, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, calcium iodate, and vitamin D3 supplement.

No choline, no 2nd organ, no egg, no animal-based omega 3.

Primal Turkey: Turkey Necks, Turkey Hearts, Turkey Wings, Turkey Livers, Organic Collard Greens, Organic Squash, Organic Celery, Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Almonds, Sardine Oil, Taurine, Spirulina, Organic Cilantro, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Ginger, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

No choline, no 2nd organ, no egg

Rad Cat: Free-range chicken thigh and leg meat, free-range chicken heart, free-range chicken liver, filtered water, organic egg yolk, human-grade bone meal, organic kelp, organic dulse, gelatin, organic psyllium husk powder, wild salmon oil, manganese gluconate.

No choline, no 2nd organ

Stella & Chewy's: Chicken (Ground with Bone), Chicken Liver, Chicken Gizzard, Pumpkin Seed, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Phosphate Monobasic, Choline Chloride, Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Taurine, Tocopherols (Preservative), Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Yes, choline, but no 2nd organ, no omega 3, no egg/egg yolk.


So there's the very long answer to your question. :anon:

 

[ldg]

So I will continue to await those in the know about my questions on Jennie's need for supplementation. I know they've answered me already, but the answers came with too much other information, it's just too much all at once. Right now I just want to know exactly what Jennie needs, if she is eating one ounce of gizzard/heart or thigh a day, and the rest canned food.

Well, once again the answer probably came with too much information. :lol3:

If you plan to feed her one ounce a day of gizzard or heart, I would consider adding at least a little liver, if not some kidney. I don't know how many ounces she eats daily/weekly. But you CAN consider using freeze dried liver, if you're comfortable with that concept. We can help you figure out how much FD liver, based on the liver you can/want to purchase, should be used.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Wow, I can't believe how much has transpired since I last read this thread.  You're already to Frankenprey (whether you think you are or not

.!  I mean, you're feeding chunks, right?  To me, that's Frankenprey, whether it's currently balanced or not.  And you're definitely asking what you need to make it balanced, so you're gonna be a pro in no time

.  You'll be giving advise to others before you know it.

I'm so happy for you and your little furry kids. 

 

[ldg]

One last thing before you ask more questions: I woudn't worry about taurine AT ALL. Hearts are very high in taurine, so given you're giving her gizzard and heart, you don't need to worry about additional taurine.

 

[otto]

Okay. Thanks. Here is the goal for the time being.

All my cats are going to have one meal a day of raw, with the remaining diet their usual canned foods. Mazy and Queen Eva will have Rad Cat, but I cannot afford to feed all three Rad Cat, even at only one ounce a day.

Since Jennie has shown a great willingness to eat chunks of raw meat, she can have her raw meal home made.

So I want to make sure I have this right. For Jennie to have one balanced raw meal a day: and the meat I am using is one ounce of chicken gizzard/heart or one ounce of chicken thigh, I must include 1/32 teaspoon of egg shell powder (for calcium) and liver, the amount to be determined. Won't worry about the second secreting organ. This one raw meal will be about 1/3 of her daily intake, the remaining 2/3 will continue to be her usual canned foods.

Once I have that down, I'll start messing around with egg yolks and sardines . Jennie will not have any trouble with either of those, I am sure.

So if I have that right, now about that liver. If I use fresh (frozen) liver, which is very cheap and so I would prefer to do that, if she will eat it, how much (in ounces) liver will I add to one ounce of muscle meat and the egg shell powder, to give her a balanced meal.

(If, in time, I get the other two eating a home made serving now and then, I may need to turn to freeze dried liver for them)

I understand the concept of prey model, that it is balanced over a number of days, not day to day. But that's not what I am doing now. I just want that one meal a day to be properly balanced, since it will be one third of her total daily diet.

Thank you again and again for all your patience and help.

 

[ldg]

5% of one ounce is .05 ounce of raw liver. (And the cats that like it? LOVE it. :lol3: So :cross: Jennie will too!)

 

[otto]

5% of one ounce is .05 ounce of raw liver. (And the cats that like it? LOVE it. :lol3: So :cross: Jennie will too!)

Thank you!! I forgot I could have figured out the percentage. I just get so confused. Thank you for being so patient.

 

[ldg]

Yeah, well, unless I do it on a calculator or in excel, you can BET I get the decimal place wrong! So no worries!

 

[otto]

In theory It could be with the canned, as the calcium can be balanced over time - however IMHO it is safer to be balanced/given with the meat because if she doesn't eat the meat, you will be in a situation where she was given too much Calcium..

Thanks Carolina, that makes sense.

Isn't she eating Rad Cat? There is quite a bit of liver in there....

No, Jennie is not getting Rad Cat. I can't afford to feed all three of them on Rad Cat. Since Jennie is ready and willing to eat home made, that's what she's getting. But only one meal a day. The rest is still canned, and will remain so, for the foreseeable future.

Wow, I can't believe how much has transpired since I last read this thread.  You're already to Frankenprey (whether you think you are or not .!  I mean, you're feeding chunks, right?  To me, that's Frankenprey, whether it's currently balanced or not.  And you're definitely asking what you need to make it balanced, so you're gonna be a pro in no time :lol3: .  You'll be giving advise to others before you know it.

I'm so happy for you and your little furry kids. 

Thanks Sally! I am staying where we are for now, each cat getting one meal a day of raw. That was the goal, and once Jennie's daily chunk has been balanced, I will have reached it. Mazy and Queen Eva on Rad Cat and Jennie on a home made meal, with the rest of their daily intake remaining their canned foods.

I am slipping Mazy cat and Queen Eva small bits of whole meat on days when I have a lot of time to devote to it, to get them used to it. In time, maybe I can convert some of their one meal a day of rad cat to one meal a day of home made. It sure would help my budget.

I can't think too far ahead. I just cannot. Once Jennie's meal is balanced, that's where we stay for a while.