The Introduction to Rad Cat Frozen Raw

[mschauer]

After reading your reply a few more times I have more questions. I know I should just stop trying to think tonight as I am very tired, but I'm afraid I will forget my questions if I don't ask them when they occur to me.

I'm really confused. You have mentioned two different supplements here? Alnutrin and Call of the Wild? What's the difference?
You have 2 Alnutrins - with and without Calcium. Alnutrin has to be added to meat/organ/bone; while alnutrin + Calcium can be added to meat and organs only.
Call of the Wild will balance Muscle meat, and make it 100% balanced and complete, without the need of organs or bone. HOWEVER, it contains a bit of plant matter - that can be viewed by some as a downside.

Just a clarification. When Alnutrin is used the only organs that need to be added is liver. 

 

[otto]

I finally got Mazy to eat the Rad Cat lamb. She promptly brought it back up. Two days later I tried again, she ate it again, but again regurgitated it, this time with some retching several minutes later.

Yesterday I offered it to her again and she sniffed at it, then turned to me and said incredulously "You're giving me this again? Didn't I tell you I can't eat this?"

Well...her look seemed to say all that. :lol3:

I whisked it away. So now I know, Mazy cannot tolerate red meat. So it's chicken and turkey Rad Cat for her, only, along with as much variety in chicken canned foods as I can manage, which isn't much. She can't tolerate very much variety, and the one other canned food she was enjoying and keeping down now has COD as the third ingredient. Since I don't feed fish to my cats, ESPECIALLY Mazy cat, I have now lost that food as part of her rotation.

Queen Eva loves the lamb and has no trouble with it, after that one episode of soft stool. Ditto Jennie, but I limit the amount of raw she gets because it's so expensive and she already enjoys a very wide variety of canned foods with no digestive troubles.

I wish I had the energy and confidence to make my own. I'm just not there yet, if ever I will be. Probably not ever.

 

[feralvr]

I'll just add one thing, and more for people who are just beginning to research commercial raw and have a cat who has allergies:  it is sometimes difficult to find a commercial raw that is truly single source protein.  That is, for example, meat + organs + bone + liver ALL come from the same animal.  Some commercial raw mix and match.  Not a bad thing--unless you have a cat who is allergic to, say, chicken, and read that while the meat is lamb, the liver is from chickens.

And sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to order meat from, for example, Hare-Today.  I spent 40 minutes and $8 breaking down a rabbit and only got four servings.  I think Hare-Today would have been cheaper, on a per serving basis.

For sure, Hare Today, has all single source meats. :lol3: on the 40 minute rabbit break down. Hare Today does save you time that way, and it IS super reasonable meat.

 

[feralvr]

I finally got Mazy to eat the Rad Cat lamb. She promptly brought it back up. Two days later I tried again, she ate it again, but again regurgitated it, this time with some retching several minutes later.
Yesterday I offered it to her again and she sniffed at it, then turned to me and said incredulously "You're giving me this again? Didn't I tell you I can't eat this?"
Well...her look seemed to say all that. :lol3:
I whisked it away. So now I know, Mazy cannot tolerate red meat. So it's chicken and turkey Rad Cat for her, only, along with as much variety in chicken canned foods as I can manage, which isn't much. She can't tolerate very much variety, and the one other canned food she was enjoying and keeping down now has COD as the third ingredient. Since I don't feed fish to my cats, ESPECIALLY Mazy cat, I have now lost that food as part of her rotation.
.

OH poor Mazy, she must have though momma has lost her mind. :lol3: Mazy sounds like my Pip. In the beginning of this transition, he did try some "red" meats - ground, and did vomit them up shortly after eating. He then started refusing ANY red raw ground I served. So he was also telling me - NO, I CAN'T EAT THAT!!!!! Pip also only eats chicken or turkey. I have had luck with Rad Cat, Nature's Menu, Hare Today and Nature's Variety. He will eat the chicken and turkey of all of those brands. I still have to try Vital Essentials chicken for him. Would be good to have another to rotate.

 

[ldg]

otto, I hope you don't mind, but how much lamb did she eat when she reguritated it? Were you introducing it slowly? Shel can't tolerate red meats if they're an entire meal, but the only one he can't actually tolerate a bite of is beef. Everything else, he can eat if it's up to 50% of the meal. So I altered my menu - for instance, instead of feeding turkey breast in the morning, hearts at dinner, and lamb for the late night meal, I just make dinner and the late night meal 50% lamb and 50% turkey breast. The red meats were introduced to him veeeeeery slowly, after it was clear he couldn't just jump in, like with chicken or turkey.

Just a thought in case it hadn't already occurred to you....

 

[otto]

otto, I hope you don't mind, but how much lamb did she eat when she reguritated it? Were you introducing it slowly? Shel can't tolerate red meats if they're an entire meal, but the only one he can't actually tolerate a bite of is beef. Everything else, he can eat if it's up to 50% of the meal. So I altered my menu - for instance, instead of feeding turkey breast in the morning, hearts at dinner, and lamb for the late night meal, I just make dinner and the late night meal 50% lamb and 50% turkey breast. The red meats were introduced to him veeeeeery slowly, after it was clear he couldn't just jump in, like with chicken or turkey.
Just a thought in case it hadn't already occurred to you....

.15 ounce (that is point one five) :lol3:

My cats eat very small servings. They get 3 meals, but the meals are split up very small and it adds up to 7 servings a day.

However you've answered another question for me. Tonight Queen Eva had .55 ounce of lamb, and then, since Mazy only ate .25 ounce of her turkey (with another .3 oz for later) I gave the other .45 ounce to Queen Eva before I stopped to think if mixing proteins would bother her. It didn't seem too, Queen Eva LOVES the Rad Cat.

Jennie, instead of Rad Cat, got a half ounce of a gizzard/heart (I don't know which is which, they came packed together in the package) chopped up in her canned meal. I meant to watch her to see if she actually chewed the small chunks or swallowed them whole, but I was watching Mazy cat so carefully, I missed it.

 

[ldg]

Ah, well, then it looks like she can't tolerate it - yet. Give her another few weeks (or more) on raw, and try again.

 

[feralvr]

.15 ounce (that is point one five) :lol3:
.

:lol3: Pip barfed on about .18 of an ounce. And I honestly, think once, it was much less than that. Just a taste. Made him God awful sick for about 20 minutes. It was not the RC Lamb. Before the Rad Cat, I tried different varieties of meat by Primal, Nature's Logic, and even "red" meat from Nature's Variety. Never could tolerate them even at teeny proportions. He never even wanted to try the RC Lamb. Completely refuses to this day. I would love to try the Lamb with him, though. BUT I think he knows better then me on the matter. :nod: SMART BOY!!!

 

[carolina]

.15 ounce (that is point one five) :lol3:
My cats eat very small servings. They get 3 meals, but the meals are split up very small and it adds up to 7 servings a day.
However you've answered another question for me. Tonight Queen Eva had .55 ounce of lamb, and then, since Mazy only ate .25 ounce of her turkey (with another .3 oz for later) I gave the other .45 ounce to Queen Eva before I stopped to think if mixing proteins would bother her. It didn't seem too, Queen Eva LOVES the Rad Cat.
Jennie, instead of Rad Cat, got a half ounce of a gizzard/heart (I don't know which is which, they came packed together in the package) chopped up in her canned meal. I meant to watch her to see if she actually chewed the small chunks or swallowed them whole, but I was watching Mazy cat so carefully, I missed it.

:lol3: Pip barfed on about .18 of an ounce. And I honestly, think once, it was much less than that. Just a taste. Made him God awful sick for about 20 minutes. It was not the RC Lamb. Before the Rad Cat, I tried different varieties of meat by Primal, Nature's Logic, and even "red" meat from Nature's Variety. Never could tolerate them even at teeny proportions. He never even wanted to try the RC Lamb. Completely refuses to this day. I would love to try the Lamb with him, though. BUT I think he knows better then me on the matter. :nod: SMART BOY!!!

Oh our dramatic Kitties! Has Mazy learned how to pick a tiny piece, turn around and spit it on the wall yet? no? Oh she has to have a talk with Miss Perla!

In all seriousness, this is how Lucky reacts to lamb too - I am SOOOO afraid of trying again - TINY bite and she throws up (VERY DRAMATICALLY, I may add :lol3 in every single corner of my Brazilian rug :lol3:
I am now trying slooooowly Hearts again..... But the girl is trouble!!

 

[otto]

Well, Mazy already has problems with regurgitation. Serious problems, because her digestion was ruined from 6 1/2 years on Hills c/d kibble. So I am not going to force anything on her. If she says she can't eat it, I believe her.

Last night she refused the Rad Cat turkey. She has eaten it before. But last night she said no, regardless of how much forti flora or Vet's Best or even a crushed Wysong uretic kibble I put over it. So Queen Eva again got a double meal of Rad Cat, much to her delight.

 

[carolina]

Otto, Lucky had too.... I am sure you remember from her thread..... Before Raw she used to a LOT too (on kibbles)

Now that she has been consistently on raw for a long while, her system has settled, and those days are over - that is gone :bigthumb:
But it has taken a long time...... The key is to go very slowly..... and yes - totally, trust her and work with her - I took a sweet time with Lucky.
All I can tell you, is that it will get better..... It will hun :rub:

 

[otto]

Thanks for the support Carolina

I'd be happy just having Mazy eat 1 ounce of Rad Cat a day, in addition to the canned food she eats. That is my goal for her. She ate the turkey before but now is rejecting it, so I'll go back to the chicken.

Queen Eva and Jennie love the Rad Cat. Jennie gets very little of it, because she doesn't "need" it as much as Mazy and Queen Eva do. Jennie will eat the gizzards/hearts, if mixed in her canned food, so that is her raw portions. Jennie eats a wide variety of canned foods, both brands and protein variety, in rotation.

Queen Eva eats four different brands of canned/pouch, plus two different brands of raw. Though with the exception of the Rad Cat Lamb, they are all chicken. But the lamb at least gives her one novel protein.

Mazy only gets one brand of canned, two flavors, one is chicken, the other is chicken/turkey. I was hoping to give her a different protein but if she won't eat the lamb, she won't, though I won't stop offering it to her, since I know Queen Eva will eat it if she won't.

The likelihood of me ever making it myself, either prey model or ground, is slim to none, I don't like the idea of using whole meats with supplements, and I am not paying high prices for frozen raw that contains fruit and veggies, so that leaves me with the Rad Cat raw. The maximum I can afford to feed of the Rad Cat is 2 ounces a day. One for Mazy, one for Queen Eva. Fortunately the gizzards/hearts for Jennie are cheap.

 

[otto]

Now that Queen Eva has had a taste of the "real thing" she no longer wants the Stella&Chewy's :lol3:

I find I have to garnish it with forti flora and/or Vets-Best hairball relief to get her to eat it. Not very happy about those so have ordered some PureBites chicken to try.

Mazy is really starting to like the rad cat chicken I think. Last night she ate her second serving (she gets half ounce in the morning, half ounce in the evening) with barely any Vets-Best on it at all, and actually knocked the plate off her table trying to get every drop of food.

Jennie loves her gizzards/hearts (I don't know which is which) but tends to swallow even big chunks whole, so I don't know how much dental benefit she is getting, but at least she is getting some raw.

Queen Eva had her annual check up today. Guess What. My vet was very supportive of the raw feeding!

Her only caution was to talk to me about toxomoplasis. In all her years she's only seen one case in raw fed cats, but felt duty bound to discuss the possibility, and symptoms to watch for, with me. On a more positive note she mentioned that she had seen a cat with terrible stomatitis be completely cured after being switched to a raw diet. I told her I knew a cat who had that happen, too.

I called the store up near Albany yesterday to arrange for a special order. For the same amount I paid when I ordered it on line I will be getting twice as much this way. That includes adding in the gas expense for driving 200 miles round trip. It will take a big chunk of my day off, but worth the savings. Once I see exactly how fast I go through this order, next time I may double up again, to save on so many driving trips. Even with the new freezer, I still have limited storage space, it doesn't hold very much.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well, it's great that they are all eating raw food, and you are not wasting any of that expensive Radcat

.  Just think if they didn't like it and you had to toss it

...THAT would have been a tragedy!

Now that you know the size(s) of the tubs of Radcat, you can figure out exactly how many will fit in that cute little freezer of yours, right?  And the more full it is, the more efficient it should run

 

[ldg]

Well, it's great that they are all eating raw food, and you are not wasting any of that expensive Radcat .  Just think if they didn't like it and you had to toss it ...THAT would have been a tragedy!

Now that you know the size(s) of the tubs of Radcat, you can figure out exactly how many will fit in that cute little freezer of yours, right?  And the more full it is, the more efficient it should run :high5:

And I love hearing Mazy knocked it off the table to get every drop! :lol3:

 

[otto]

Lauren, thanks for your replies from last week. I just realized I never replied to your posts, but they were very helpful and supportive, so wanted to tell you so.

Well, it's great that they are all eating raw food, and you are not wasting any of that expensive Radcat .  Just think if they didn't like it and you had to toss it ...THAT would have been a tragedy!

Now that you know the size(s) of the tubs of Radcat, you can figure out exactly how many will fit in that cute little freezer of yours, right?  And the more full it is, the more efficient it should run :high5:

Thanks Sally. Well I will find out how the 24 oz fits this next time, (and also how easy or difficult it will be to thaw/separate them.) The 24 ounce and the 16 ounce tubs are the same price, ounce for ounce, there is no savings in buying the larger size at this store I am going to, so if they aren't convenient I will go back to 16 ounce, when available.

I do keep all extra space in the freezer filled with bottles of frozen water, to cut down on the running time. That freezer does seem to run a lot.

And I love hearing Mazy knocked it off the table to get every drop! :lol3:

Thanks Laurie, I know, I was thrilled! Of course how much of her eagerness was for Rad Cat and how much for the Vets-Best is anyone's guess :lol3:

 

[otto]

Well Mazy brought the lamb up again, and it was only a very tiny bit.

However she likes the chicken so much I hardly need any garnish at all on it now.

This morning I tried her on turkey (.4 oz), and saw her get started (with a heavy dusting of Vets-Best) but then forgot to watch and see if she ate it all. When I finally remembered to look Jennie was licking the plate clean so I don't know if Mazy ate all of it or not. UGH!

The change I am noticing in Mazy, with only one ounce of raw a day added to her canned diet: her weight is exactly the same, but her figure is better. She appears more muscular and she has a slight indent at her waist that she never had before. Her coat is softer.

Queen Eva eats any Rad Cat I put in front of her.

Jennie is enjoying her gizzards/hearts very much. Queen Eva will taste a gizzard/heart but won't eat them. Mazy doesn't recognize them as food at all. I haven't tried offering them to her garnished though.

I bought some chicken thighs to cut up and freeze, to see how they like them.

 

[ldg]

Well, you know Jenny likes turkey! :lol3:

And yep! The high protein, almost no carbs changes their lean body mass. :nod: ...and this is why I think if people want to feed both canned and raw, I say GREAT! It does NOT need to be all or nothing! They'll benefit from the raw, period.

...as to the lamb, at least it doesn't go to waste. What you may want to do is give it five or six months, and try with just a bite again for Mazy.

 

[otto]

I have a question about the gizzards/hearts Jennie is getting. (And also the thighs I am going to start offering slivers of.) Do you think I should be sprinkling one of the "balanced" supplements on Jennie's gizzards? They are only a small portion of her daily intake, she still eats her regular rotation of canned foods. But of course, because she tends to gain weight, I have had to cut back a little on the canned, to balance out the calories in the gizzard/heart she is getting every day.

So I'm wondering if I am shorting her on vital nutrients, and if that gizzard/heart should be supplemented even though it is only a "snack". She gets about half ounce a day, which is about 21 calories.

Also, how can I tell the difference between gizzards/ hearts when I buy a pack of them :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: ? The gizzard is much higher in both calories and protein than a heart. Since she's just getting a half ounce of (either) once a day, does it even matter?

Well, you know Jenny likes turkey! :lol3:
And yep! The high protein, almost no carbs changes their lean body mass. :nod: ...and this is why I think if people want to feed both canned and raw, I say GREAT! It does NOT need to be all or nothing! They'll benefit from the raw, period.
...as to the lamb, at least it doesn't go to waste. What you may want to do is give it five or six months, and try with just a bite again for Mazy.

Thank you so much for all your support. Laurie, it was you who said to me, way back when, that even a little raw each day would make a difference. And now I am seeing it with my own eyes, with Mazy cat. And now that I am seeing it, it makes me much more comfortable about not being able to feed them completely raw.

I think, now that Jennie is getting a daily ration of gizzard (or heart, and soon, thigh) every day I might be seeing some changes in her soon too.

Queen Eva...Between the Rad Cat Lamb and the Stella&Chewy's (re-hydrated) chicken, Queen Eva is 50 % raw now. You should see her walk now. She doesn't walk, she....what is the word I want. She has this gait like you would think of seeing a panther have. WHAT is that word I want. She's so lithe....and I never would have believed her coat could be so plush and sleek.

Mazy too. Her coat was so rough on the c/d. In the early years every time I tried to switch her to canned (and the crystals would come back) she would have a soft coat for a while, then of course back to the c/d. Then, I was determined to keep her on canned this time, and her coat became so nice. But...just adding one ounce of balanced raw, one fourth of her daily intake of food, has made this incredible difference.

I begin to understand the passion behind raw feeding, with my little steps.

I was laughing at myself yesterday as I bought the chicken thighs to cut up and freeze. "Oh, YOU'RE not going to ever feed frankenprey, are you" I said sarcastically to myself. Well. We'll see. I still prefer using the Rad Cat for Mazy and Queen Eva and the gizzards/thighs for Jennie.

 

[ldg]

I was laughing at myself yesterday as I bought the chicken thighs to cut up and freeze. "Oh, YOU'RE not going to ever feed frankenprey, are you" I said sarcastically to myself. Well. We'll see. I still prefer using the Rad Cat for Mazy and Queen Eva and the gizzards/thighs for Jennie.

Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: Yeah, we'll see!

OK, I'm not sure how much food they each eat a day, but if the amount of food you're feeding that is "unbalanced" is less than 15% of the total (measured by weight, not calories), you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like it is, but hard to know without the total. My cats (mostly) eat (about) 4.5 ounces a day. Half an ounce would be about 11%. So if yours are eating more than 3.3 ounces a day total, you're good.

On the gizzards/hearts thing...

They come packaged together I take it? Chicken hearts and gizzards?

Because the gizzard - to me - looks lighter, and more like a muscle with that light/white connective tissue stuff attached.

Chicken gizzard:

gizzard 1.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

gizzard 2.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

gizzard 3.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

Chicken heart:

chicken heart 1.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

chicken heart 2.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

chicken heart 3.jpg

• ldg
• Sep 27, 2012

The hearts are softer if you cut them; the gizzards are tougher. (Even if you want to feed them whole, you might want to use scissors to cut a few, just to get a "feel" for the difference, so you can learn how to tell them apart by look).

Oh - I included a picture that made the gizzards look darker than they look to me in person....




...now as to the calories, the hearts have FAR more calories (and they are much more nutritionally dense). USDA Nutrient Database: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list

Chicken heart, all classes, raw (USDA number 02025): Calories per 100g is 153
Chicken gizzards, all classes, raw (USDA number 05023): Calories per 100g is 94.