The Esoteric Philosophy Thread

[brianlojeck]

The Big Three, of course, but Plato's my favorite of them.

Funny thing to me about Plato, people act like Republic is such a revolutionary idea, but if you break it down to simple terms, his idea was basically:

1: put me in charge
2: everyone else needs to shut up and do their work

and I just can't see why nobody thinks this is kind of silly...

 

[mikenealis]

Originally Posted by brianlojeck

Funny thing to me about Plato, people act like Republic is such a revolutionary idea, but if you break it down to simple terms, his idea was basically:

1: put me in charge
2: everyone else needs to shut up and do their work

and I just can't see why nobody thinks this is kind of silly...

The short reply, in interets of not derailing this thread is as follows:

1) I'm more a fan of his ideas on love and friendship, The Symposium comes to mind first, but also The Republic.

2) It's not like Aristotle's ideas of biology in De Anima were much better than your take on Plato's idea of government in The Republic.

 

[sashacat421]

Originally Posted by mikenealis

.......
The Big Three, of course, but Plato's my favorite of them. I'm only slightly dissapointed that I'm not in Cincinnati at the moment because my favorite professor in the philosophy department is teaching a class on Plato for spring quarter. Oh well, I'll just have to make do with being in Italy.
......

I changed my major about four and a half years into an engineering program (aerospace = rocket science) to a dual sociology and philosophy major. I'm gonna be a Sociphosipher!

Italy. Man, that's pretty rough.

I think I will undoubtedly turn out like my father predicted....superficial....a Sophist to the core!

 

[vespacat]

Elizabeth, I think it's wonderful that you made it to college at 31.

When I was a teenager, it took a LOT of discipline for me to actually finish high school, as I've been on my own since I was 16. Though I went directly on to college after, I wish I would have held off for a while. Seems like we may have had some similar life experiences...

Personally, I think there is often too much pressure on kids to learn so intensely at such a young age (perhaps that explains the relatively high suicide rates among youth?). And I don't believe the theory that our capacity to learn is at it's peak during childhood. I think we just lose touch (and understandably so) with the wonder that childhood brings. The complexities of modern life are a bitch.

I'm a believer in experiencing all life can bring, and in any form, whether it be learning to think critically in order to appreciate the written word, gaining wisdom through facing hardship or in welcoming challenge, or by appreciating the little things in life, such as having a roof over your head, food on the table and the simple joy in sharing those comforts with a feline companion!

Far too often we get caught up in the superficial and monetary aspects of life, that we often lose ourselves, become numb, and therefore experience little or no meaning or purpose in the process.

Originally Posted by sashacat421

Heavens! Required reading --YUK! I graduated second to last in my high school because I never went. I preferred to "experience life" at age 17 instead of a classroom. I didn't go to gollege until I was 31! But.....having said that (there IS a category for you, did you see?

) I will say that marshaling all my resources, whether they be the clues and power of the natural world, books, visuals, art, or just plain livin', has allowed me to make up my own mind about how to think and look at humanity and the powerful questions that plague us.

 

[mikenealis]

Originally Posted by sashacat421

Italy. Man, that's pretty rough.

I think I will undoubtedly turn out like my father predicted....superficial....a Sophist to the core!

Yeah, didn't quite know how to get the sarcasm on that across, glad someone got it. Sophists weren't all superficial, they just taught people what they wanted to know - how to win arguments (for the most part). Socrates' beef with them was that they took money for what they did. I think it's Penguin Classics that just last year released a collection of the Sophists' works. It's a pretty good read, if you're into that.

 

[brianlojeck]

Originally Posted by mikenealis

2) It's not like Aristotle's ideas of biology in De Anima were much better than your take on Plato's idea of government in The Republic.

ouch. Philopher's Burn...

I don't think I'm as far off as you think. I may not have captured the purest essence of his utopian designs for society, but if you boil it down, his idea of the three parts of society were:

1: people to do
2: people to fight
3: people to rule

those with skills (cobblers, welders, etc...) did what they do, those who were brave became soldiers, and the smartest went to school and become philosophers, at which point they could rule. (the idea of them living life in the other "jobs" of socity is a good one, I'll admit).

Plato putting philopher's in charge is like an attorney deciding that you should need a law degree to be president. We all think we, or someone very like us, really "see how to fix things". The only difference is, when I say that, nobody reads about it in school. ;-)

 

[marge]

I voted forSocrates but I hear Sartre was a kick in the pants at parties

 

[mikenealis]

Originally Posted by brianlojeck

The only difference is, when I say that, nobody reads about it in school. ;-)

No one really reads what I write either. You'll have that.

 

[clixpix]

Okay, everyone's going to have to be quiet for a bit...I'm trying to recalculate my IQ. I thought it was a pretty respectable number, but after reading this thread, I'm not so sure. I'm not even sure it breaks the 100 mark!

While reading this thread, I've been doing a lot of this:

...and some of this:

...but mostly this:

 

[mikenealis]

Clixpix, don't think that way. Philosophy isn't something that's hard to understand. You just need to understand that whatever it is that you're reading isn't the say-all-end-all of everything. It's just some guy's ideas. Usually they're dead guys' ideas. Really really dead guys. For me, the thing I love most about it is it challenges my views on the world, and forces me to step back from my comfort zone to get a look at things.

Besides, the first time I ran logic circles around my friends that were still in engineering was grand fun (does anyone else see that as somewhat strange? The philosopher running circles around engineers using logic?). As was "proving" to them that they don't exist.

I'm sure there's volumes that you know, and hundreds of things that you can do, that I have absolutely no clue what about at all. To me, philosophy is like the arts. Sure, I love getting dressed up to go to an opera or the symphony, but the arts should be open to everyone and not have a dress code. It does my heart good to see people coming Music Hall in denim. Think of philosophy like that. It's not big and scary, it's just regular knowledge and questions dressed in a suit. With a really nice tie.

 

[mikenealis]

Originally Posted by brianlojeck

or, as another great philosopher (Ash from Army Of Darkness) put it:

"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."

How did I miss this?!?

"Alright, you primitive screw-heads, listen up...."

 

[vespacat]

Wow, this thread takes me back!

I guess somebody voted in order for it to resurface...

 

[bigkittendaddy]

Personally I tend to think more along the lines of Lazarus long and Robert Heinlein.
"Don't try to teach a pig to whistle, it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

 

[sashacat421]

OMG! Who resurrected this thing?????

 

[lionessrampant]

Sartre and existentialism just fascinate me, but as my mom says, everyone is an existentialist when they're in college.

Go figure, right?