Started them on raw tonight :D

[feralvr]

:scratch: :hmm: :chescat: :wait:........... OH LAURIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where art thou today??? Hope Sardine Sunday is a HIT :cross:

 

[ldg]

:lol3: You guys are too funny! Like there is such a thing as a thread hijack in these threads.

So Carolina, you're considering the beef spleen from HT? But it's ground? I think we're going to have a chat with the butcher some time next week. :nod: I'd almost rather feed a mix of all those organs they're going to toss (especially if they're rabbit or poultry). We'll see what we can come up with.

And the only reason I get ... freaky about them eating their organs is they're not getting their full nutritional requirement if they don't! OH! And turns out Flowerbelle threw up the kidney in the end. I guess I didn't update the thread. But she didn't keep it down either.

I think I'm going to cut the amount of organs I feed in half for Flowerbelle, Shel, Tux, and Laz, and just SLOWLY work the amount back up to what it should be. :dk:

3/11/12 Sunday Dinner

Liver was another struggle today. In the end, I got most of them to eat most of it. I got so confused about whose was whose by the end with all the bowl pulling and topper adding I had to do. But out of 3.25 ounces I put out (Spooky didn't get any, and Tuxie only got 0.25oz (supposed to be 0.5oz)), I had 0.75oz left over at the end. :dk: I think it was Laz and Shel, with Tuxie leaving one smallish piece behind. Chumley and Ming Loy needed some WL help. :lol3:

I DID remember to give Tux half his gizzard, then the liver, then the last of his gizzard. This worked for him tonight. *phew*

And everyone seemed to like the gizzard tonight. For those who haven't served it, it's like balls of round, tough meat, strung together with this really thick, hard, kind of fibrous stuff. Not fat - I don't know what it is. But this time I trimmed all of that off (which would have left me one bowl short, except Spooky wasn't getting any anyway LOL). I served it chilly, and I think that was the difference between them eating it OK this time vs. last meal they had it. :nod:

I also thing I need to serve the liver straight out of the fridge. I think the problem is not the taste, but the texture. If it's still kind of hard because it's cold, they may accept it better. :dk:

**************************************************

OK - backing up here. Late Night Meal last night ( 3/10/12 Saturday ) was fresh pork. It was quick and easy. Served chilly, that works.

**************************************************

Breakfast this morning ( 3/11/12 Sunday ) HT Pork & Duck. Again, Spooky ate a big breakfast of pork! Shel, Tux, and Laz didn't do so well, but I made them go hungry until dinner again. Tomorrow's breakfast is NM Lamb. This is the last time I'm trying NM. Turkey is out, Chicken is out. If they refuse the lamb, the ferals are getting that too.

***************************************************

SARDINE SUNDAY!

Well, it didn't happen. :lol3: We didn't get to the supermarket, and I didn't have any.

But in answer to your question Sally, when you open the tin, there's 5 or 6 whole sardines (no head and no tail fins). I just pull them out with a fork, whole, and put one in each bowl. My smaller kitties get smaller ones, the bigger kitties get bigger ones. I have to open 2 tins because I have 8 cats, and I'll freeze the leftover sardines in a baggie to use next time. I just break them up a little (they fall apart easily), and just put them out like a meal in the middle of the day. They love them! Even Spooky.

 

[feralvr]

OH well - there is always next Sardine Sunday Sounds like all is going well in your raw camp It is so odd how the cat's are seeming to like the meat and organs cold !!!!!! I am having more luck serving the meat slightly chilled as well. I am sure it gets quite confusing when you have to pull bowls and add topper's and return them to the kitties - :scratch: HMMMMM now whose was this bowl..... :lol3:

:cross: for the NM Lamb in the morning.... It really sounds like your babies do not like the NM period.......... :slant: The NM Lamb is not a favorite at my place either. Wendall is sick of and is backing off. I am all done with the NM Lamb. The last pattie was served yesterday. Good luck with breakfast :cross:

 

[carolina]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll take whatever you are willing to part with, Carolina !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will work out a deal :dollars: :lol3:
(sorry - had to reply to that one :anon:

Alright! Let's do it!
Let me work out a menu with the vet tomorrow so I know exactly what to order from HT..... then I can place the order tomorrow or Tuesday.... The box should arrive Thursday...... and on the way to you on Monday I't probably going to be 2 boxes - I will have 2 anyways.... as I am ordering from 2 places - I have tons of stuff - I have Rad Cat Lamb, turkey and Chicken, I have thatbag of NV Rabbit, I have HT pheasant goat, quail, I have fegnion Rabbit - those I give you for free, as the kitties didn't like it - if your don' you just toss it.... well.... Bugsy like it, Hope ... It was VERY $$$..... and 2 bags of NM chicken..... you will have tons of stuff overthere

:lol3: You guys are too funny! Like there is such a thing as a thread hijack in these threads.
So Carolina, you're considering the beef spleen from HT? But it's ground? I think we're going to have a chat with the butcher some time next week. :nod: I'd almost rather feed a mix of all those organs they're going to toss (especially if they're rabbit or poultry). We'll see what we can come up with.

Nope, I am getting from here: http://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index...tegory_id=35&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=130
And since I am getting from there, I might get beef liver, heart, chunks, or ostridge liver..... will see..... But one thing is for damn sure: I am over the kidney :lol3: Now.... they do have ground beef pancreas, for example.... I will ask the vet tomorrow if it is ok to feed that - it is so little in QTY.... if it is ok, I might get it as well for variety :nod:
Their shipping is pretty reasonable as well - they will be a source for me as HT is :nod:

***************************************************
SARDINE SUNDAY!
Well, it didn't happen. :lol3: We didn't get to the supermarket, and I didn't have any.
But in answer to your question Sally, when you open the tin, there's 5 or 6 whole sardines (no head and no tail fins). I just pull them out with a fork, whole, and put one in each bowl. My smaller kitties get smaller ones, the bigger kitties get bigger ones. I have to open 2 tins because I have 8 cats, and I'll freeze the leftover sardines in a baggie to use next time. I just break them up a little (they fall apart easily), and just put them out like a meal in the middle of the day. They love them! Even Spooky.

So.... I went to walmart today..... Got the darn sardines..... yep, got them..... Went to serve them after dinner..... MAJOR FLOP - Hope didn't even want to lick them Not by itself, not with HL.... not a tiny piece! Nada!
Bugsy ate 1/2 of his....... So much for all those cartoons I used to watch as a child of kitties going nuts for fish.... yeah - not here

 

[ldg]

Maybe they weren't hungry? :dk: Thankfully, mine love them.

But there's another question for the vet - a good animal source of omega 3!

 

[ldg]

EGG MONDAY!

3/12/12 Monday AM Meal

NM Lamb. A total bomb. :thmbdwn: Chumley and Ming Loy finished, that was it.
I had to feed Shel and Tux fresh turkey. Flowerbelle got some too.
Lazlo, with a lot of work, I got to eat enough (with some HT pork mixed in).
Spooky ate 2oz of HT pork (which is what I offer her for breakfast every day now).

I remembered AC feeds egg once a week (splits up yolk for one, white for another, and switches each week). Because so many of them ate so poorly, I gave it a go. Shel, Tux, and Flowerbelle liked egg yolk. :lol3: No one liked egg white. Flowerbelle took a lick of it and made the funniest face! I offered it around just to see reactions - and no one else did anything more than sniff at it. Next time I'll try lightly cooking the egg white. :nod:

*******************************************
The late night meal Sunday night was fresh pork. Laz (and Flowerbelle!) needed a little help finishing, but that was it. It was an easy meal.
I have no canned food BUT BG here. I gave Spooky BG turkey, but she didn't want it. I covered it pretty heavily with chicken liver powder, and she ate 0.8 oz. I left it at that. (I did offer her a bowl of VERY finely cup up pork, but that was a no go. :dk: ).

 

[feralvr]

EGGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great thinking on your part this morning to get something extra into them :happy3: I bet if you lightly cook the egg whites - it might be taken better. Will be curious to know. :nod:

Spooky - :rub: You are sounding more and more like rincess: Perla :lol3:.... AT least she is eating the HT Pork for breakfast every day :bigthumb: That is excellent news :lovegrin:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

On the eggs, I've been reading that you definitely should lightly cook the whites.  Don't really understand why, but there's some health reason (not bacterial or anything like that, but some other thing).  I've been thinking about offering eggs, but I only want to do organic if I do, and I don't happen to have any of those here.  I'm wondering how to "lightly" cook the whites?  Would you scramble them, or poach, or what?  I'm thinking they would be good to add to Sven's diet for extra protein and calories.  Guess I could just give him the yolks since that's pretty much where everything is.  Why bother with the whites at all.  I can use them on my face as a mask!

Thanks for telling me how to have sardines.  I suppose I should wait on them, since they might not go well with lamb

(or turkey)

 

[sugarcatmom]

On the eggs, I've been reading that you definitely should lightly cook the whites.  Don't really understand why, but there's some health reason (not bacterial or anything like that, but some other thing). 

The raw egg white thing has to do with a glycoprotein they contain called avidin. It binds to biotin and can cause a biotin deficiency when fed raw. Thoroughly cooking the whites, or feeding them with the yolk (which is abundant in biotin) supposedly prevents that problem.

 

[ldg]

Excellent, thanks for that info! I'll lightly poach them, because there is no way any one of my cats will eat an entire egg in one sitting. :lol3:

Sally, I hear ya on the organic eggs. :nod: Ours are local. Organic, vegetarian fed, pastured (with shelter) chickens. :nod: They are SOOOO good. We had to buy store eggs a while back, and they tasted like... nothing. They really had no taste. And those were the expensive whatever-brand with vegetarian fed chickens, humanely raised. The difference is truly incredible. One of the benefits of living in farm country, I guess. :lol3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Sally, I hear ya on the organic eggs.

Ours are local. Organic, vegetarian fed, pastured (with shelter) chickens.

They are SOOOO good. We had to buy store eggs a while back, and they tasted like... nothing. They really had no taste. And those were the expensive whatever-brand with vegetarian fed chickens, humanely raised. The difference is truly incredible. One of the benefits of living in farm country, I guess.

hmmm.   can you send me some?

  Believe it or not, we still have dairy farms around here, but I'm not aware of any local HUMANE egg raisers.  Don't know how else to say it.  We do have a local egg place, but they aren't organic,  so I can't tell the difference.  Guess I'll need to get a couple of hens.  Afterall, my "handle" IS mrsgreenjeens

 

[ldg]

There are some local dairy farms around here, but no large factory-style dairy farms. Some definitely sell the milk, I've seen those trucks picking it up. But I think most turn it into locally sold cheese. All the farms around here, you see goats (one has mini goats and they are SO SO cute!), sheep, cattle, chickens, llamas, whatever, out in the fields. Haven't seen any ostrich....

3/12/12 Monday Dinner
Duck heart!
OK - DEFINITELY Flowerbelle's favorite. :nod: She was all over me and the counter while I was fixing dinner. The counter used to be off limits, but a few months into Chumley using the one end of it as a thoroughfare from the couch to the cat tree, and now it's just a free-for-all. I don't think this can be undone. :lol3: (At least it's on the end we don't use as food prep!).

We went to the pet shop today, and THEY WERE OUT OF BFF! If it's not one thing, it's another! :doh3: Anyway, they did have Tiki Cat, so I came home with the tuna without grain - a bunch of it. I tried to hide 0.5 oz of heart in 1 oz of food for Spooky. Nope. She was having none of it.

Lazlo wasn't going to eat the heart! I don't know what's up with that boy. His appetite is fine, he's just being incredibly picky these days! Either that, or it was the Calcium Hydroxyapatite I used instead of eggshell tonight? :dk: Come to think of it, it might have been - Ming Loy walked away from her bowl at first. It could also have been that it was too cold. It was definitely cold. I sprinkled dried chicken liver on Lazlo's and Ming Loy's, and they both dug in.

Laz finished about half. I tended to everyone else, then sprinkled just a little Tiki cat tuna stuff on it, and he finished it all up without a problem. So maybe it was just the temperature....

Anyway, it was a good meal. Spooky only ate an ounce of the Tiki Cat, but she'd eaten 2 oz of HT pork for breakfast, so it's all good!

 

[feralvr]

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO happy you had a great day I just LOVE BFF and would have about died if I couldn't get any either BUT Tiki Cat is another great one as a back-up to BFF. Especially with the fussies... rincess: Perla LOVES BFF..... OK - so you have to go and see about Perla's run-in with the Chicken Thigh for dinner tonight.... Poor Perla - man - that chicken thigh is tough meat too!

How funny about your thoroughfare :lol3: I have pretty much given up with the cat's off the counter's.... :anon: I am bad.... I just keep disinfecting often..... YAY for Flowerbelle and the duck heart - that is really great Sounds like the dried chicken liver saved the day for Lazlo and Ming Loy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't put it past it being the Calcium Hydroxyapatite - I am telling you these kitties can detect just about anything new - no matter how minuscule it might be - they just know.....

 

[ldg]

3/13/12 Tuesday AM Meal
HT Duck 70% and Pork 30%
Spooky got 2 oz of pork and ate it all.
Flowerbelle did NOT like more duck than pork. Added pork to hers, and Tiki Tuna was needed in the end to get her to eat enough.
Shel preferred more Duck. He needed some toppers & Tiki Tuna in the end to eat enough.
Ming Loy did NOT prefer more Duck. She needed a topper.
Tux and Laz did NOT prefer more duck. Added pork & toppers. Had to use Tiki Tuna to get them to finish.

Yeah, not a fun morning. :lol3:

I'm going to try just ground pork again tomorrow morning.

I had a pound of Bravo venison (JUST venison meat). I'm dethawing it. Not sure what I'm going to do with it, but... at least it's something new.

Tonight's dinner is chicken & kidney. :lol3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

3/13/12 Tuesday AM Meal
HT Duck 70% and Pork 30%
Spooky got 2 oz of pork and ate it all.
Flowerbelle did NOT like more duck than pork. Added pork to hers, and Tiki Tuna was needed in the end to get her to eat enough.
Shel preferred more Duck. He needed some toppers & Tiki Tuna in the end to eat enough.
Ming Loy did NOT prefer more Duck. She needed a topper.
Tux and Laz did NOT prefer more duck. Added pork & toppers. Had to use Tiki Tuna to get them to finish.

 

So!  Is this how you are going to feed them forever.  Less duck for, let's see...Flowerbelle , Ming Loy, Tux and Laz; more duck for Shel; no duck for Spooky?  Who am I missing?  Bill and Chum...I'm guessing they loved it any way it was served, right

  Gosh, I'll never know how you keep it all straight.  Your refrig and now new freezer must be absolutely covered in notes about who eats what and in what amounts, huh?

 

[ldg]

Don't forget, 1/2 the amount of kidney for Shel on kidney days, sandwiched between the fresh meat, and the same for Tuxie but with liver on those days. :lol3: Then there's how to cut the meat for each cat, or how much water to add to ground for each one...

And on that note... it's kidney time!

 

[ldg]

3/13/12 Tuesday Dinner
Fresh chicken & beef kidney.

Well, I gave Shel half his chicken, only 0.25oz (half of what he "should" be eating) of kidney, and the rest of his chicken. No trouble eating any of it. But about 20 minutes after dinner, it all came back up. (He's also the kitty that couldn't tolerate beef). I wonder how he'll do with the venison I've got dethawing? :dk:

It took a little encouragement, but everyone ate most of their meal.

I even tried sneaking some raw into Spooky's food again. I put 0.5oz of raw in her bowl and offered it to her. She had no interest. I then mixed it into 1 oz of Tiki Cat (I know, a lot of fish for her recently. :anon: ). Well, she ate an ounce of food, and some of that was the raw! Then I gave her another ounce of just Tiki Cat, and she ate that too.

I'd consider the beef pancreas, but I think Shel just has a problem with beef-based proteins. Hare Today does sell rabbit organs. It's supposed to be mostly liver, with some kidney and heart/lung. The package I got was mostly heart/lung. But at the next kidney meal, I will try giving Shel the rabbit kidney. And I guess at the next heart meal, I'll find out if they like rabbit heart, including (mostly) lung. :lol3: At least those just LOOK nasty, they don't smell nasty.

 

[carolina]

3/13/12 Tuesday Dinner
Fresh chicken & beef kidney.
Well, I gave Shel half his chicken, only 0.25oz (half of what he "should" be eating) of kidney, and the rest of his chicken. No trouble eating any of it. But about 20 minutes after dinner, it all came back up. (He's also the kitty that couldn't tolerate beef). I wonder how he'll do with the venison I've got dethawing? :dk:
It took a little encouragement, but everyone ate most of their meal.
I even tried sneaking some raw into Spooky's food again. I put 0.5oz of raw in her bowl and offered it to her. She had no interest. I then mixed it into 1 oz of Tiki Cat (I know, a lot of fish for her recently. :anon: ). Well, she ate an ounce of food, and some of that was the raw! Then I gave her another ounce of just Tiki Cat, and she ate that too.
I'd consider the beef pancreas, but I think Shel just has a problem with beef-based proteins. Hare Today does sell rabbit organs. It's supposed to be mostly liver, with some kidney and heart/lung. The package I got was mostly heart/lung. But at the next kidney meal, I will try giving Shel the rabbit kidney. And I guess at the next heart meal, I'll find out if they like rabbit heart, including (mostly) lung. :lol3: At least those just LOOK nasty, they don't smell nasty.

Oh, I am sorry about Shel hun..... Good news is, Venison is usually well tolerated.... Hope can't tolerate beef, but she always ate Venison without a problem... Hopefully it won't be different with raw :cross:
Also, I read that allergies and intolerance doesn't carry through to organs - it is a protein based issue.... meaning the meat/muscle - the pancreas should be alright :nod:

 

[feralvr]

hno: Shel...... sorry about that Such trials and tribulations - One way or another WE will get this all figured out. This raw process all together is really like taking a class in Rocket Science AND each cat is SO different in how they take the meat's, kidney and organs, right.... :slant:

Spooky IS so much like Perla. I was able to get Perla to eat 1 ounce of NV rabbit tonight mixed in with BFF. BUT that was only because she was so hungry - she refused breakfast today after last night's chicken thigh drama I know how you feel about feeding to much fish - I am in a real pickle with Perla on that. It seems the only way she will eat raw - mixed in with fish.

For tomorrow's breakfast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cross:
p.s. Pipsqueak could not tolerate Venison at all nor did Perkins That was NV Venison though not fresh venison. I hope that will go well. :cross: I do think they will like it :nod: My cat's did like NV venison.

 

[ldg]

Lauren, the NV Venison isn't a single-source protein though. It has beef hearts in it. :nod: Doesn't matter - they didn't like it.

But first things first.

I think Spooky ate about a foot of a wand toy string! :anon: It's been 10 years.... she was the one who ate one almost 10 years ago, and I'm pretty sure she was the culprit yesterday. I was playing with them with the Neko Flies karantula (looks like a spider). Spooky was particularly bonking out. Got a biz call, got distracted - and LEFT IT LYING ON THE FLOOR IN THE KITCHEN AT THE FOOT OF THE CAT TREES!

I went to pick it up and put it away - and NO SPIDER ON THE END. Found the spider, tied it on - and noticed the string seemed much too short. I compared it to the other Neko Flies toy I have (THANK YOU LAUREN) - and yep! About a foot missing!

The potential culprits - Spooky (most likely), Ming Loy (possible), and Billy (unlikely).

I consulted with Carolina, and decided to start pumping Spooky full of pumpkin and slippery elm. I had a bowl with 3 tablespoons of pumpkin in it and 1/4 teaspoon slippery elm mixed in (to just a part of it, I didn't mix it in completely. I figured if she didn't eat the whole thing, I wanted her to get that part first). I was going to syringe her if she didn't eat it. She got that part with the slippery elm (she wasn't going to eat it plain. But I have sardines in olive oil. I figured it couldn't hurt, so I opened it up, and spooned a little of the sardine-flavored oil on there and it WORKED). She ate that up, and I grabbed the bowl to put a little more sardine oil on there - and Billy chased her under the bed. :wife: :stomp:

She was gone until the late night meal. I mixed more pumpkin in with Tiki cat. She only ate 0.5oz of the combo. But a little later I gave her another tablespoon of pumpkin mixed into Wellness chicken & herring, and she ate all of that. *phew* This morning, I gave her a heaping tablespoon of pumpkin (a little over 0.5 oz) and the rest was her HT pork - and I mixed another 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm in there. She ate it ALL. *phew*

So far, no litter box action. But everyone seems fine and normal... :cross: :cross: :cross:

OK. Now to backtrack...

3/13/12 Late Night Meal
Fresh Pork
Took a little fussing for Tux, Laz, and Flowerbelle, but overall it was an easy breezy meal!


3/14/12 AM Meal
HT pork & duck. Gave Lazlo, Flowerbelle, Spook, and Shel pork only. Tux got 0.5 oz of duck, the rest pork.
Lazlo was the only one that ate his meal (with fussing).
Well - Spooky ate all of hers (see above).
Flowerbelle ate about half.
Shel & Tux didn't eat much.

So I fixed up the Bravo ground venison meat I had dethawed (added alnutrin and calcium for a pound). Mixed it with some pork, offered it around. Only Shel took a couple of licks, that was it. So I offered some plain venison. Again - Shel took a lick, that was it. Seems venison will not be one of our proteins. :lol3:

I had leftover fresh pork from last night, and that's what they got.