SPOILERS-Harry Potter discussion thread

[rosehawke]

Originally Posted by Roxy_loves_CJ

I agree that it cannot be the end of dumbledore so easily. Plus if the pheniox has healing powers with its tears, then why couldnt dumbledore be healed? <snip>

Probably because Dumbledore would've already been dead at the time. I assume that phoenix tears can heal ... they can't resurrect. Even the unicorn blood was said to keep you alive if you were "an inch from death" but again, couldn't bring you back if you had gone beyond the veil.

Cindy

 

[bren.1]

I also thought there was more to Dumbledore's death. It's almost too easy for Snape to go to the dark side. I found it interesting that Draco couldn't kill Dumbledore, and not for lack of ability. I think he's a snotty brat, but I don't think he has depths of evil in him like some of the others. Interesting, too, that he said he was doing it to protect his family. So, like Harry, he has the capacity to love. Wonder if that will come into play in book 7.
Somehow, I don't think Ginny will listen to Harry. She really likes him, and she's very strong-willed. She'll be important in the next book, too.

 

[bren.1]

Well, despite my intentions to read a few chapters a day, I sat down and finished today. Once I was halfway through, I couldn't wait to find out what happened. I was crying throughout the last 50 pages.

As for the HBP, I thought it might be who it turned out to be.

 

[cyberkitten]

I agree completely./ No way is Dumbledore dead for long - well maybe until the next book. It is too ignanimous an end for so critical and significant character. Sane for Snape - he will return but is he REALLY a Death Eater. He was never a fav of mine but I wondered throughout the book when he would have to choose and how that would play out. And Dumbledore was too knowledgable a wizard to have believed him. My guess is something was planned between D and Snape and his doing it (instead of Draco) may well mean that it is a curse or charm that will allow him to sleep but appear dead - or something like that.


Then again, I was never convinvced Sirius was gone for good either.

I also see Regulus Black as a strong candidate to own the initials.

 

[rosehawke]

Originally Posted by CyberKitten

...And Dumbledore was too knowledgable a wizard to have believed him....

Yes!

! That's the thing isn't it? How on earth could Dumbledore have fallen for such a, well, simple ruse? "Oh, I'm so sorry that I provided the information that led to Lily's and James' deaths that I want nothing to do with the Dark Lord anymore ...." One wonders if JKR hasn't really thought out all of the plot threads and has just put something in for the moment, and because it's "neat." Still a great read though

.

But at the same time, JKR really isn't, in the scheme of things, a very experienced writer, even though she now has 6 published books under her belt. I really think in many cases it's only her editors that have kept her on the straight and narrow so to speak.

I mean, she writes well ... but when it comes to the intricacies of plot and character development etc. ...

I've found a couple of plot holes, although the only one I can think of at the moment is the thing in book 4 with the thestrals (apparently Harry did not see them when leaving Hogwarts that term after already having observed Cedric Diggory's death ... why? Not explained. And why the heck didn't he see them at the very beginning if he had already observed his mum's death? This one could possibly be explained as due to his young age at the time, however.) I'm sure that there must be more.

Cindy

 

[cyberkitten]

Oh but Dumbledore will return!!! I was actually a little relied it was not one of the kids.

 

[deb25]

I thought Regulus Black, too.

I just finished. Can't believe the ending. It really put a damper on the whole thing for me.

 

[katl8e]

I don't believe that it was Dumbledore, who was killed. I think that it was some sort of "stand-in", to lull the Death-Eaters into a false sense of security. Having Snape kill "Dumbledore" will cement his "in", with the Death Eaters and Voldemort and allow him to destroy them from the inside.

Remember, no one actually SAW Dumbledore's body go into the tomb - just a wrapped bundle.

 

[deb25]

It has to be SOMETHING! I can't believe she would kill off Dumbledore, and that Snape was a Death Eater.

Then again, I kept waiting for word form Sirius, too.

 

[deb25]

P.S. The 'finished the book' and the discussion thread have been merged. They were both heading in the same direction.

 

[rosehawke]

One thing you'v got to remember here, is that since it's JKR's world and she has made big $$$$$ off of this, is that she can pretty much do what she wants with the plot and the story. She really doesn't have to worry about a future "career" with her writing. I'm pretty sure that at this point she's independently wealthy, and I just get this feeling that she somewhat feels she's created a monster and will be quite happy to see the last of Harry Potter. Therefore she doesn't HAVE to follow what most of us instinctively know would be good, er, plot manners

and not kill off a character in which you and your readers has invested so much emotional time! She may see it as just "Hey, I don't want to have to come back to this, so I'll just kill 'im off and say that's the end of it!" For this reason my DH thinks that there will NOT be a happy ending to this storry. He is firmly of the belief that Harry's going to die

, and probably others as well.

I hope he's wrong, of course.

Well, it's my bed-time *darn* so I guess I'll check in on this in the morning.

 

[okeefecl]

Originally Posted by RoseHawke

I mean, she writes well ... but when it comes to the intricacies of plot and character development etc. ...

I've found a couple of plot holes, although the only one I can think of at the moment is the thing in book 4 with the thestrals (apparently Harry did not see them when leaving Hogwarts that term after already having observed Cedric Diggory's death ... why? Not explained. And why the heck didn't he see them at the very beginning if he had already observed his mum's death? This one could possibly be explained as due to his young age at the time, however.) I'm sure that there must be more.

Cindy

IMO, seeing thestrals not only involves seeing someone die but also *understanding* their death. So in Harry's case he saw his parents die but didn't understand it (after all, he was an infant and thought for many years they had died in a car crash). I also think it took some time for Harry to really process Cedric's death, so he didn't see thestrals going home 4th year but saw them coming back to Hogwarts 5th year.

 

[cyberkitten]

Re JK and her $$$$$$$$$, I have a feeling (could be wrong) that she is not just abuot money. She does indeed know how to market but I think she has strong moral values and will do the "righht" thing by her readers. If I were her, I'd be tempted to be tired a bit of Harry too. I hope the 7th really has a great ending! (and frankly, is better than the 5th and 6th - tho I enjoyed this one more than the last). We may all have a bit of Harry ennui given how much it is in our psyche (Don't tell my HP crazy patients I said tho, lol)

Re: "I think that it was some sort of "stand-in", to lull the Death-Eaters into a false sense of security. " I absolutely AGREE!!!!! There is a plan there somewhere - if the Death Eaters think the Great Good Wizard is gone, they may slip up. And Snape will be right there as double agent to report on them, right? I hope that is the case anyway.

"My" young readers all agree about Dumbledore. I've encouraged them to use the time now to write how they would like to see the next book. One said "but you're the doctor, not the teacher.", lol I said I was both actually even if I did not teach writing and reading. He saluted and added "Well I'll get right to it then, get me some Harry Potter glasses" Cheeky 11 yr old, lol

I love Prof McG - wished there had been a larger role for her in the book - I frankly would
like a bigger role for cats in general in the book, performing some epic heroic deed. Cruckshanks could certainly fit the bill.

 

[deb25]

I definitely felt Star Wars-esque reading Book 6 today. Do you think JKR got the idea to bump off Dumbledore from Richard Harris dying?

I realize that JKR's original kid readers have aged right along with Harry, but there are still plenty of younger kids reading her books. I kept getting the distinct feeling like Book 6 was like Revenge of the Sith - kind of PG 13 - and not necessarily for kids.

 

[cyberkitten]

Gosh Deb, I wondered EXACTLY the same thing!!!! But then I thought there still will be Dumbledore in the next movies sooo... but I wondered about it. For some reason, I thought the character to be killed off would be one of the kids and was VERY happy it was not (More for personal reasons I guess).

I really really think he will return though!!!! And Snape will be vindicated in the end. Maybe, lol

 

[okeefecl]

Originally Posted by Deb25

I definitely felt Star Wars-esque reading Book 6 today. Do you think JKR got the idea to bump off Dumbledore from Richard Harris dying?

I realize that JKR's original kid readers have aged right along with Harry, but there are still plenty of younger kids reading her books. I kept getting the distinct feeling like Book 6 was like Revenge of the Sith - kind of PG 13 - and not necessarily for kids.

I don't think JKR necessarily got the idea of killing off Dumbledore from the death of Richard Harris. I think it was more to fit into the story arc of the hero (Harry) losing his wise mentor (Dumbledore) before having to face his foe (Voldemort).

For me this book was definately PG-13, if only for Malfoy freezing Harry and deliberately breaking his nose by stomping on his face. Of all the violence in the book that really crossed the line.

 

[ttugurl]

I finished about 5 hours ago. I was suprised but I didn't get immotional, I heard others did. I kind of wish I had took my time reading it 17$ gone in a day. It was worth it though! I don't like knowing that Harry won't return to Hogwarts though. I want to believe Snape is still loyal, but im still confused. I also can't wait until book seven!

 

[deb25]

For that ending, I am glad I didn't drag out reading the book.

I agree with you on Draco breaking Harry's nose, Christy. Very violent, like Anakin killing younglings, and nothing like the previous curses thrown about, ie leg locker.

I was really enjoying the book until Dumbledore got whacked. I felt as though it flowed more smoothly than Book 5, which I was in the process of rereading, as I had forgotten so much.

I also liked how all of Harry's visits to Dumbledore contained good information about Voldemort.

I just do not see how Harry is going to defeat Voldemort in Book 7. Although he is a talented wizard, he is young and inexperienced. That much was blatantly evident while he accompanied Dumbledore to retrieve the Horcrux.

 

[ali012281]

Okay. I just finished and all I can say is WOW.

I was really shocked that Dumbledore was killed off. I was really hoping that it was Snape... that Snape was a good guy... and he was going to break his vow to Dracos mum and that is why he died. But well.. I was way off on that one.

One thing I was shocked at was all the 'snoggering' in the book. This is a childrens book, is it not? But I guess I need to remember they are 16/17 now and I suppose I was snoggering to at that age.

I think I have a different idea then others about book 7's ending. I have a odd feeling that one of the Horcrux is in Harry himself... that is how he speaks to the snakes.... why he should have been in Slytherin... and his temper... Its been said that some of Voldys powers were transfered to Harry when Voldy tried to kill Harry. Perhaps killing Harrys mum was powerful enough to place a Horcrux in Harry? I believe that Harry will end up taking his life or they will kill each other at the same time... making Harry a marytr. Just IMHO

 

[deb25]

Some really interesting theories.

While I was reading I was thinking that maybe Draco was going to turn out to have become a werewolf. So much for my predictive abilities..... We'll see what happens to Bill, though.