Spaying

[gayef]

Originally Posted by shadowsoul

This is why I NEVER supported breeders ...

I think it is horribly unfair for you to single out breeders when it comes to the issue of pet overpopulation. While I am certain there are some who are at fault, for the most part, breeders are not the sole cause of the problem. Irresponsible pet owners who do not get their pets spayed or neutered are the bulk of it. Educating those people and directing them towards affordable spay/neuter is a better approach than to lay down such a blanket accusation against breeders.

There are those of us (breeders) out here who are doing everything we can and then some to combat the numbers of unwanted and unloved animals in our own areas. I can't speak for everyone who breeds, but I practice TNR for those animals who show up at my place here (I live in that "magical" place known as "The Country", where all dumped pets can run freely through my fields and find a loving, caring home *roll eyes*), I give freely and generously to my local animal shelter several times a year (food, litter, blankets, toys and most importantly, my time), I donate a large cash contribution at Christmas (normally several hundred dollars) as well as placing a large portion of each and every kitten sale I make towards sponsoring fostered cats (I am currently sponsoring 13 cats - one for each kitten I have sold over the last three years).

 

[shadowsoul]

Originally Posted by gayef

I think it is horribly unfair for you to single out breeders when it comes to the issue of pet overpopulation. While I am certain there are some who are at fault, for the most part, breeders are not the sole cause of the problem. Irresponsible pet owners who do not get their pets spayed or neutered are the bulk of it. Educating those people and directing them towards affordable spay/neuter is a better approach than to lay down such a blanket accusation against breeders.

There are those of us (breeders) out here who are doing everything we can and then some to combat the numbers of unwanted and unloved animals in our own areas. I can't speak for everyone who breeds, but I practice TNR for those animals who show up at my place here (I live in that "magical" place known as "The Country", where all dumped pets can run freely through my fields and find a loving, caring home *roll eyes*), I give freely and generously to my local animal shelter several times a year (food, litter, blankets, toys and most importantly, my time), I donate a large cash contribution at Christmas (normally several hundred dollars) as well as placing a large portion of each and every kitten sale I make towards sponsoring fostered cats (I am currently sponsoring 13 cats - one for each kitten I have sold over the last three years).

Oh don't misunderstand me, I do not intend to generalize, or accuse all and every single breeders, it is comforting to know how breeders from other countries, such as you, practice the way you practice. I am speaking as to the situation of my country. I have been surveying vast number breeders in my place, and the conditions of the animals are really saddening. In my country, it is best not to opt for breeders, because almost all breeders here do not provide necessary care to the pets they sell, and are generally motivated by profit.

The concept of TNR does not exist here, but I do that to 20 cats last month out of my own pocket, and there is only one single organization in the country that focuses on animal welfare, aside from PETA.

If you get the impression I a accusing anyone, please, it is not my intention to do so

, it is a personal choice not to choose breeders beacuse of the devastating practice in my country

Originally Posted by gayef

here are those of us (breeders) out here who are doing everything we can and then some to combat the numbers of unwanted and unloved animals in our own areas.

Originally Posted by gayef

I can't speak for everyone who breeds, but I practice TNR for those animals who show up at my place here (I live in that "magical" place known as "The Country", where all dumped pets can run freely through my fields and find a loving, caring home *roll eyes*),

Originally Posted by gayef

I give freely and generously to my local animal shelter several times a year (food, litter, blankets, toys and most importantly, my time), I donate a large cash contribution at Christmas (normally several hundred dollars) as well as placing a large portion of each and every kitten sale I make towards sponsoring fostered cats (I am currently sponsoring 13 cats - one for each kitten I have sold over the last three years).

These are projects that are not initiated from where I live, so my response is essentially in view of the social landscape of my country, and truly situational.

I am an animal lover, and I detest (and frustrated) with what I see from breeders and pet shops here, and for what you are doing to these animals, you have my support.

After all, irresponsible pet owners, more than careless breeders, are so much at fault when it comes to pet overpopulation.

Shadowsoul

 

[jen]

Originally Posted by MyBabies

They TRIED to sell kittens but the kittens died so they stopped.

They DIED? How did they die? I mean, generally speaking, it is not hard to keep a kitten alive if you just feed them... Did they not feed them or what? Seriously I cannot believe that they died, there was obviously something going on there if ALL their kittens died. That's crazy. What a horrible pet shop.

 

[breal76]

I got to the third page and I think I have read enough.

I work at a shelter. Not just a "shelter" but a Humane Society. I work at a shelter that no matter what, in the 40 plus years that our doors have been opened, not one animal has been turned away, not one person had to make an "appointment" to get the animal they do not want in.

With that, our intake is extremely high. Shelter's don't call "kitten season" kitten season because it's cute and fun. They call it that because litter after litter is flying through that door. Our intake on average for kitten season is around 50-90 animals per day.( we do see 100 pet intake days though) 2005 alone we took in 13,377 pets, A Humane society that is less than 15 miles from us, took in almost the exact same number. And we are not the only shelters in the area.

Now, since our shelter is the only "open door" shelter in a 200 mile radius. Our euthansia rate is one of the highest in Oregon and Washington state.

70% of all cats/kittens that come through that door will be euthanized. That is correct. We can't find homes for them all. In order for one to go up for adoption one has to go home. At one point we had over 100 animals in foster care. I remember one day about a month ago where we put down 95 pets in one day.

When you have to hold a perfectly healthy kitten that is two months old while she/he is being euthanized and it's only flaw in the world is there are just too many. It's heartbreaking. It's the shelters that carry that burden.

The question then beomes why? Why do so many have to die? Because there are too many and not enough homes. That is why. So if you are not part of the solution, you then become part of the problem. Spay and Neuter folks.

For every cat that gets a home, there are plenty who don't.

Now I also believe that just because you don't see it, it doesn't exist. I assure you, it does. I live it, I see it , and I cry about it everyday.

With that, there is another problem that is out there and it contributes to the shelters being over run. It's called responsibility and commitment. It's the commitment that one makes when they take a pet home then fail miserably when they surrender that pet 2 years..7 years..10 years down the road.

Moving along. Feral cats, we have a feral cat group in the area. They work with trapping, spay & neutering, they also test for FELV/FIV. This is only done though with a promise to feed. This is a good program, and the two ladies who work in our area do great work with it.

On to breeding. My thoughts on breeding? I just don't get it personally. I don't know what makes one breed more desirable then the next. A cat, is just that to me. A cat. I have a siamese mix, I assume she is a mix because she was born with no eye balls, so I can't tell if her eyes are blue..lol. I have a maine coon mix as well. I did not get them for those reasons. I got them because I had a connection to them unlike any other. Plus the two Domestic Shorthairs I have as well. I love cats! I LOVE KITTY CATS! I think any breed, any color..that they are just superb! I don't care what they are. So it's hard for me to understand why someone would be specific about what the cat that they want would look like without meeting them.

Professional breeders would not bother me if they took responsibility for what they put out there in the world. Meaning microchip what you sell, all chips trace back to you, that way if they ended up at a shelter you would be called, then you can come get your cat. Yes. That would be okay with me. That is only a dream though I am sure.

Kittens are cute, and everybody wants one..but kittens grow up to be cats.
Spay and neuter. It does save lives. I should know.

 

[bluekat]

Sorry to disillusion you, but shelters DO NOT scan for microchips. I sold a spayed retired Ch. cat to a nice young couple, a couple years ago. The cat was microchipped & registered with HomeAgain. I did not tell the new owners that. I microchip all my adults for ID in case something would happen to me. 2 weeks ago, a lady contacted me, who had found my cat in a shelter. Apparently it's pedigree was following it around, as she got my cattery name off the pedigree. It had sat in the shelter for 3 months. The story was a lady had to get rid of it, because her daughter came home to live, who had a child with allergies. Obviously not the person who purchased the cat from me.
I was never contacted by HomeAgain. I asked the lady who picked the cat up from the shelter, to have it scanned by her vet & tell me the number. I wanted to make sure that it really was the same cat, and not a shelter slapping a pedigree on every cat that was a certain common color. I haven't heard a word from her, since I asked her to have the cat scanned. I'm guessing she freaked & is afraid I'm going to claim her cat. I have no intention of taking her cat. I'm happy someone saved the poor girl, from the small wire cage it was in for 3 mo. The microchip didn't help it at all. I could have easily went to that shelter & picked the cat up, if they had called me, as being the last registered owner in the microchip information.

 

[breal76]

Originally Posted by bluekat

Sorry to disillusion you, but shelters DO NOT scan for microchips.

Uh..Yes they do. Just because one shelter didn't scan one cat, that doesn't generalize the whole bunch.

That's like taking a bite out of a bitter apple and saying "Apples are bitter. I don't like them." What you just said is a very broad statement.

Every single animal that is processed at our shelter is scanned at least 3 times. Once in the door, second being proccessed (vacinations) third time when it's either being put up for adoption/or put down.

Then the ones who make it over to adoptions get scanned the fourth time before being implanted with one when they get adopted.

With that, just this last Saterday I helped reunite a woman who had been missing her dog for almost two years. That dog that came through our shelter was scanned for a microchip. Millie wouldn't be getting spoiled right now if shelters didn't scan for microchips cause that is how the connection was made.

I am sorry your local shelter is still stuck in the past, but that is no reason to generalize the whole bunch. We reunite at least one animal a day with their owner because of microchip implants.

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by Breal76

... it's hard for me to understand why someone would be specific about what the cat that they want would look like without meeting them.

It really isn't about just what the cat looks like ... individual breeds normally also possess similar behavioral traits. Sometimes people like to know that they will be getting an extremely active, athletic, vocal, full-of-pi$$-and-vinegar Seal Point Siamese cat because they had one they were particularly fond of as a young person or whatever. Looks are not the only thing that make up a breed.

Professional breeders would not bother me if they took responsibility for what they put out there in the world. Meaning microchip what you sell, all chips trace back to you, that way if they ended up at a shelter you would be called, then you can come get your cat. Yes. That would be okay with me. That is only a dream though I am sure.

It isn't an out-of-reach dream but there are currently problems with it. I have wanted to do this (as well as pediatric s/n) on the kittens leaving my home for a long time now. The problem currently in chipping my kittens with ~my~ information is that in just about every state in the US, the laws around the purchase of animals are such that it wouldn't be legal for me to do so. Once the new families take possession of the kitten, I can no longer claim ANY rights to it ~legally~. I do have them sign an agreement that they are to call me first in the event they find they cannot keep the kitten for whatever reason, and no questions asked, I will ALWAYS take it back into my home. I also have them sign the agreement that if they do decide to chip the kitten themselves, they will include my contact information as secondary point of contact.

 

[jen]

Originally Posted by bluekat

Sorry to disillusion you, but shelters DO NOT scan for microchips.

Umm I would think a lot of shelters do scan. All the shelters around here do. Don't make a statement saying that none do just because yours didn't.

 

[breal76]

Originally Posted by gayef

It really isn't about just what the cat looks like ... individual breeds normally also possess similar behavioral traits. Sometimes people like to know that they will be getting an extremely active, athletic, vocal, full-of-pi$$-and-vinegar Seal Point Siamese cat because they had one they were particularly fond of as a young person or whatever. Looks are not the only thing that make up a breed.

That's a very valid point. I get the fond of something you had when you were a kid. Of course I always have had Domestic Short hairs, maybe that's why I like mixed breeds so much. lol. I used to get a lot of request for Maine Coons, and I would think "What's so special about a maine coon?" Then Forest is supposed to be one. ( I am still on the fence about that one. ) But his character traits are something else. So I could get it if I knew for a fact they were all like that. Then again, when you get a kitten of anything you really have no idea what you are going to get. I have never seen two cats that act exactly alike. Which makes kitties even better because they all have their unique personalities. I love cats.

The problem currently in chipping my kittens with ~my~ information is that in just about every state in the US, the laws around the purchase of animals are such that it wouldn't be legal for me to do so.

I understand this. Our shelter had transfered Forest to a purebred rescue group and I had to sign a contract stating that I would return him if I ever gave him up. When I spoke with the lady though she told me his microchip number would trace back to her. I have only once run into a microchip that traced back to an actual breeder. They were not forthright in giving me owner information, but did contact the owner to let them know there dog was at our shelter. ( we take in strays as well and owner releases )

Anyway I am glad at least you have them sign a contract stating that they are suppose to bring them back to you in case of a release. At least that is something.

 

[booktigger]

The majority of shelters do scan for chips, we dont always scan everyone that comes to us, simply because we dont have a chip reader (something I am trying to raise funds for), and we dont always get chance to take them to the vet before anything else.

 

[commonoddity042]

Originally Posted by gayef

It really isn't about just what the cat looks like ... individual breeds normally also possess similar behavioral traits. Sometimes people like to know that they will be getting an extremely active, athletic, vocal, full-of-pi$$-and-vinegar Seal Point Siamese cat because they had one they were particularly fond of as a young person or whatever. Looks are not the only thing that make up a breed.

Exactly. Many people are creatures of habit. Many grow up with a calico, a siamese, a tailless, a big shaggy lovebug of a cat with a tiny voice, etc. and seek that familiarity later in life.

Personally, I've found that I like fluffy (mediumhaired/single coated longhair), laid-back cats who aren't needy (is able to amuse itself whether or not I'm around, but is still affectionate), and aren't very vocal (or have soft voices when they are), and aren't overly dominant with other cats.

If given my pick of a roomful of cats, that is the one I would start out seeking every time.

It's not too different from breed preference/selection.

 

[breal76]

I finally figured out my point on breeders/breeding! Yeah me

Takes me awhile sometimes. lol

How can you justify your own want and your own need to the fact that thousands of kittens/cat are being euthanized every single day in the US due to over population?

If I knew that fact alone ( which I do since I live it ) but if I was just an outsider in the world. If I knew that so many kittens/cats were being put down day after day..Then how could I just go out and "buy" a cat from a breeder knowing that fact alone. I would feel guilty, really guilty.

And I guess that is the part I really don't get.

 

[lionessrampant]

Originally Posted by gayef

It really isn't about just what the cat looks like ... individual breeds normally also possess similar behavioral traits. Sometimes people like to know that they will be getting an extremely active, athletic, vocal, full-of-pi$$-and-vinegar Seal Point Siamese cat because they had one they were particularly fond of as a young person or whatever. Looks are not the only thing that make up a breed.

And, see, this is always my counter-point to that: I have an extremely vocal, active, lithe, full of pi$$-and-vinegar moggie. Cat breeds were developed, either naturally or through human intervention (and don't even get my started on how I feel about CREATING breeds), from the general felis silvestris catus population. Everything you can find in a purebred cat, from points to vocalization to color to hair length to activity level, you can find in a standard-breed domestic cat. This is also why I hate the language "mixed breed"....these cats are NOT mixes of purebreeds, but rather, just sort of stand alone domestic cats. Standard breeds.

So whenever anyone tries to make the point the Gaye is trying to make, I always tell tham about Raphael, the wannabe meezer. I still think breeding is wasteful. We just found 2 new ferals this morning trying to get into the attic, totally intact and totally terrified of people.

 

[sharky]

I am with Booktiger on the scanning issue... In my area only a few vets have scanners and only one of the shelters does... This is the only reason my girls arent microchipped... All are spayed ..lol.. I asked if you could spay a fish

 

[byron_57]

Does anyone knows of a group in central Florida who spays and neuters cats to release them back.

I am affraid that if I catch a wild cat that is in my yard to spay her I will have to stay with her for at least a week before I can release her back. During such time, I know I am going to get attached to her or her to me. And when I release her back to my back yard she would want to come back inside the house.

I would feel so devestated if I see her with kittens again next year.

Hope you can help.

 

[jen]

Originally Posted by gayef

It isn't an out-of-reach dream but there are currently problems with it. I have wanted to do this (as well as pediatric s/n) on the kittens leaving my home for a long time now. The problem currently in chipping my kittens with ~my~ information is that in just about every state in the US, the laws around the purchase of animals are such that it wouldn't be legal for me to do so. Once the new families take possession of the kitten, I can no longer claim ANY rights to it ~legally~. I do have them sign an agreement that they are to call me first in the event they find they cannot keep the kitten for whatever reason, and no questions asked, I will ALWAYS take it back into my home. I also have them sign the agreement that if they do decide to chip the kitten themselves, they will include my contact information as secondary point of contact.

That is really interesting, I never knew that. Every shelter/rescuer around here that microchips keeps the shelter/rescuer on as one of the contacts just in case. Not necessarily to claim ownership, but just to know and if the cat is sitting at the pound to be euthanized they can go and get it and contact the adopters and find out what happened. But in the few cases were another shelter picked up the animal, most are fine with returning it to the original shelter that adopted it out in the first place.

I have an opportunity to microchip all my cats next week for $10 each and I an debating whether or not I should do it.

 

[catsrcul]

yeah I totally agree with people being irresponsible pet owners, especially in cities. Lke they say, pets aren't christmas presents, they are for a lifetime.

Anyway now I've given my opinion, I'm still unsure to the procedure of spaying/neutering. I mean, is it 'humane'? Personally I'd be horrified if someone forced me to be 'spayed' (vasectomy in other words lol) without my consent. What do you guys think?

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by catsrcul

yeah I totally agree with people being irresponsible pet owners, especially in cities. Lke they say, pets aren't christmas presents, they are for a lifetime.

Anyway now I've given my opinion, I'm still unsure to the procedure of spaying/neutering. I mean, is it 'humane'? Personally I'd be horrified if someone forced me to be 'spayed' (vasectomy in other words lol) without my consent. What do you guys think?

It is very humane .. since UNLIKE you and I cats dont go and find a partner for life or evan choose a mate... they go by smell and who is avail at there right time...

 

[mbjerkness]

Originally Posted by catsrcul

yeah I totally agree with people being irresponsible pet owners, especially in cities. Lke they say, pets aren't christmas presents, they are for a lifetime.

Anyway now I've given my opinion, I'm still unsure to the procedure of spaying/neutering. I mean, is it 'humane'? Personally I'd be horrified if someone forced me to be 'spayed' (vasectomy in other words lol) without my consent. What do you guys think?

cats breed out of instinct, not choice, or for pleasure

 

[dauntingfire]

Originally Posted by catsrcul

Anyway now I've given my opinion, I'm still unsure to the procedure of spaying/neutering. I mean, is it 'humane'? Personally I'd be horrified if someone forced me to be 'spayed' (vasectomy in other words lol) without my consent. What do you guys think?

It's less about you being 'forced' to be spayed and more about being forced to have child after child after child. My apologies for humanizing this but: Imagine that every time you finally gave birth you were pregnant again within a month. You can't help it, it's just in your nature. But eventually your body will get exhausted. If you didn't have children, you would suffer every month with your instinct to mate and going without becoming pregnant. You would get NO relief from your instincts. It sounds awful to me, personally, I'd much rather be spayed and live a happy comfy life without having to worry about things like that.

We have a responsibility to domestic cats (to all domestic animals) to keep them well and healthy by spaying and neutering them to control their population.

I can assure you, my mother's boy kitties are HAPPY, HEALTHY, LOVING beasties who are clearly enjoying life in the lap of kitty luxury. And they were all neutered.

It means they don't feel compelled to go and fight for their food, their ladycats, their territory. Thankfully they don't feel the need to spray EVERYTHING.

In the end, spaying and neutering makes not only the cats happier but it also makes their people happier.

I like having well adjusted cats and they like having me!