Could we please return to the thread topic? Please try to limit personal comments to PMs.
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
Should I feed my cat dry or wet food?
- Thread starter three4rd
- Start Date
Scroll up to post # 45, where regulation and the FDA was brought up, which I responded to in post # 46. It is confusing since so many simultaneous conversations are occurring.
I have said that there is a huge distinction between named meats in the ingredient list and mystery meat byproducts in response to the below statement which I have explained is wrong. There is in fact a huge difference in the definition of named meat and meat by-product.
Thank you for agreeing with me. Yes, that by definition makes them by-products. By law, "chicken" or "beef" or "duck" as used on an ingredients label on cat food cannot be from 4-D animals (4-D means animals that were dead, dying, diseased, or disabled at time of slaughter). They can be labeled by-products or meat meal or bone meal. That is why there is a huge distinction between named meats and mystery meat by-product meal as I said before, and why the statement "there really isn't much of a distinction" is incorrect.
The definition also doesn't say that pet food includes the breast, thighs and drumsticks either. I never referred to mystery meat - I was talking specifically about chicken although I still stand by what I said even though you want to interpret it your way. Golly geez, I'm done.Originally Posted by Ducman69
Scroll up to post # 45, where regulation and the FDA was brought up, which I responded to in post # 46. It is confusing since so many simultaneous conversations are occurring.
I have said that there is a huge distinction between named meats in the ingredient list and mystery meat byproducts in response to the below statement which I have explained is wrong. There is in fact a huge difference in the definition of named meat and meat by-product.
Thank you for agreeing with me. Yes, that by definition makes them by-products. By law, "chicken" or "beef" or "duck" as used on an ingredients label on cat food cannot be from 4-D animals (4-D means animals that were dead, dying, diseased, or disabled at time of slaughter). They can be labeled by-products or meat meal or bone meal. That is why there is a huge distinction between named meats and mystery meat by-product meal as I said before, and why the statement "there really isn't much of a distinction" is incorrect.
To rehash since this has been addressed, you have been unable to demonstrate any factual evidence that ingredients labeld "chicken" in pet food is stripped of breast and leg meat, making your claim completely unsupported.
What kind of animal is a "poultry by-product", you remember saying that right? Did that meat come from a chicken, a turkey, a duck, what? Mystery meat has different regulations to named protein sources, which is why it matters to pay attention to what you're saying, even if it was unintentional. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to be thorough in explaining why the ingredient "CHICKEN" and "POULTRY BY-PRODUCT" are worlds apart by law.
BornFreeUsa.org - "The better brands of pet food, such as many “super-premium,” “natural,” and “organic” varieties, do not use by-products. On the label, you’ll see one or more named meats among the first few ingredients, such as “turkey” or “lamb.” These meats are still mainly leftover scraps; in the case of poultry, bones are allowed, so “chicken” consists mainly of backs and frames—the spine and ribs, minus their expensive breast meat. The small amount of meat left on the bones is the meat in the pet food."
I agree with you. I look for foods with NO by-products. I honestly don't believe any of us will ever know exactly what is contained in by-products since the information is so well hidden by the manufacturers.
I agree with you also, but actually the point of my post was that even ingredients like 'chicken', 'lamb' and 'beef' are only the remainders of the meat after the prime cuts have been removed. Better than breaks and feet, but still not very reassuring that we can't expect more truthful labels.
Yes, as I said, you have confused posts and posters - Auntie Crazy posted #45 not me.Originally Posted by Ducman69
Scroll up to post # 45, where regulation and the FDA was brought up, which I responded to in post # 46. It is confusing since so many simultaneous conversations are occurring..
It seems to me that most "no by-product" choices seem to actually be higher in fat content than the choices that include by-products. While I do avoid foods with by-products as the primary ingredient, I prefer to give the the lower fat content choices over the no by-product choices.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,435
- Purraise
- 61
Cats actually need a pretty high fat content in their foods, Scott. I think it should be between 25 and 35% of the diet. Between that and the... character of by-products, you'd probably do better to go with the no by-product varieties.
AC
That's the problem though. According to Binky's Nutrition page most of the "Premium", no by-product brands list fat as 50%-60% or more fat content. It's the brands/flavors that do contain by-products that drop the fat down into the 25%-35% range.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html
That just doesn't sound right somehow. . .I'm going to do my own calculations, brb.
OK, I can't do all the calculations because I'm at work and don't have time right now, but Authority chicken (since it was first on the list) is listed on their website as having 10% protein and 6.5% fat. I know that has to be figured by dry matter basis, but even so I absolutely can't see how they can come up with 35% protein and 59% fat on the Binky page. I wonder if they got it backward? 59% protein and 35% fat?
Binky's page lists the amount of calories from fat/protein/carbs. Fat is much higher in calories than protein, thus it is listed as a much higher amount.
Dry matter basis would have the Authority Chicken at:
Protein: 45.45% DMB
Fat: 29.54% DMB
Carb: 7.80% DMB
As a % per Kcal, not by weight, which is fine. Cats should be getting most of their calories from protein and fat.
Protein isn't protein, as there's protein from say chicken, and cheaper incomplete proteins like wheat, soy, or corn gluten. Chicken, particularly the commercial ones that are fattened up quickly, are going to have more fat than the cheaper proteins, so the premium foods are usually higher in fat. It definitely raises calories, but as long as there is plenty of good protein, you just adjust feeding size accordingly, and I know when fat isn't high enough in foods the kitties tend to get a dull coat.
This is correct. I should have been more specific. I think Protein adds 3.5-4 calories per gram while fat adds 8.5-9 calories per gram. Still this means they will be taking in more calories from fat than from proteins in most of those so called premium foods.
I agree protein isn't protein. As long as the food has NO GRAINS in it, then you are looking at calories from meat based protein vs. calories from meat based fat. I still say protein from chicken by-products is better than chicken fat.
Let's make a pretend scenario and say that a food has 40% protein and 35% fat. Let's also say that is an ideal diet for a cat (as far as canned goes). It doesn't Matter whether they are getting more calories from the fat because the percentages for a healthy cat are correct.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,435
- Purraise
- 61
AC
Even Friskies patè flavors have the same stats as the higher-quality foods (of course the quality of the protein isn't as good). The only ones with lower amounts of fat are the "shredded" or "chunky" foods, because they have a lot of carb-filled gravy. Cats are made to have fats. . .and fat doesn't make cats fat (ironically). Carbs make cats fat.
Great, does anyone know what the proper %'s are for an "ideal diet"? I still doubt that having less meat based protein and more meat based fat is "better". Once again cats are designed to live off of mice and small birds which seems like both would have very little fat content per protein content. /shrug I am not a mouse nutritionist though.
By-products can't be all bad, I am sure you have eaten hot dogs, Vienna sausages, or some other potted meat which is all made with "by-products". Is that better than lean beef? No. But it is better than eating the fat that was trimmed off of the beef to make it lean. Either way there is a lot of studies that need to be done in pet nutrition and a LOT of work that needs to be done in the pet food industry. Proper labeling would help a lot but without know for sure what the proper amounts of each nutrient would be optimal even good labels would only be marginally helpful.
Cats need animal fat. Humans don't.
It's not really comparable.
