Plastic bags gone???

[stealthkitty]

Depending on the city or nation, stores might be legally obligated to charge for plastic bags.

 

[Willowy]

Depending on the city or nation, stores might be legally obligated to charge for plastic bags.

I'm thinking that's probably true in most places that charge or stop using them. I mean, I know where to buy them for a penny each, I'm sure stores pay even less. I doubt they do it for financial reasons. Besides, the store clerks here do this whenever I forget my reusable bags :tongue2:: HTTP://XKCD.COM/990/

 

[minka]

As I mentioned earlier, I cannot carry heavy bags. Even when I ask the bagger not to pack them too heavy, I have to stop, grab a few extra bags and repack them before leaving the store.

And since I reuse the bags, and do not purchase trash bags EVER, for those two reasons, it is not likely I will ever want to use fewer grocery bags. If they start to charge for them, I'll take even more of my business to Amazon, including buying bags there as will many other people. Stores want to put themselves out of business, it seems. Even in the sticks, we have other options.

Why can you not take them out to your car in your cart and then load into your car and save bags that way?

 

[AbbysMom]

As I mentioned earlier, I cannot carry heavy bags. Even when I ask the bagger not to pack them too heavy, I have to stop, grab a few extra bags and repack them before leaving the store.

And since I reuse the bags, and do not purchase trash bags EVER, for those two reasons, it is not likely I will ever want to use fewer grocery bags. If they start to charge for them, I'll take even more of my business to Amazon, including buying bags there as will many other people. Stores want to put themselves out of business, it seems. Even in the sticks, we have other options.

Why can you not take them out to your car in your cart and then load into your car and save bags that way?

She can, but then how will she get them from her car to her kitchen? :dk: At some point they will have to be carried.

 

[minka]

She can, but then how will she get them from her car to her kitchen? :dk: At some point they will have to be carried.

She can make multiple trips with smaller qualities in the bags OR keep reusable bags in her car to place the excess items into. :nod:

 

[andrya]

l've been in both situations. When l was married and had 3 children and only 1 cat at home, we bought enough groceries that we were always overflowing with plastic bags. We would end up just throwing them away because we had no use for them. Now l have a teenager, myself and 3 cats - so less groceries/bags, and more to scoop so l need to keep buying the bags.

Garbage bags are expensive here in Canada so l'd rather buy the small grocery bags with the monthly groceries. lf l had to pay a fortune for the thicker, better quality, bigger bags, l'd keep them lying around the house till they were full enough to be tossed, yuck! I haven't seen any biodegradable, or cheap/flimsy bags for sale.

 

[duckdodgers]

I've heard a few mention that stores are mostly into this policy for their own profit, but I would like to point out that some places (like our Target) give you a $0.05 discount for each reusable bag that you use in the store.  While I realize that not everyone shops at Target or another store with this policy, one could think of this as adding to their "garbage bag fund". Say you go shopping once a week and use five cloth bags- you will in theory save $1.25 per month assuming 5 weeks per month.  Say you also use one plastic bag every other day for litter scooping- this would add up to 15 bags per month. 
 

Say you bought these garbage bags: http://www.target.com/p/ruffies-4-gal-small-trash-bags-105-ct-jasmine-gray-scent/-/A-12969561  These are not the cheapest nor the most expensive (just some random bags I found in a google search) which contains 105 plastic bags for $4.39.  This adds up to a cost of less than $0.05 per bag, and a monthly cost of less than a dollar for the plastic bags. 

I know that this logic won't apply to everyone (some people have lots of cats and need more bags, some shop more, etc), but in some cases it can be monetarily advantageous to NOT use plastic bags in the store and instead opt for the cloth ones.  If you buy your reusable bags elsewhere, then the store certainly wouldn't be making any money off of you in that regard!

Also, Stella thinks that cloth shopping bags are god's gift to kittens.  I have one that I cut the handles off of for her and she loves the thing!

 

[otto]

Why can you not take them out to your car in your cart and then load into your car and save bags that way?

1) because I am past middle age, arthritic and live on the second floor, and don't have a lot of free time. Do I want to make 50 trips up and down the stairs to bring my groceries in, one item at a time? I do not. Nor do I want loose grocery items rolling around in my trunk, which is also used to store things like hiking boots, work related stuff and so on.

2) because I USE the bags as trash bags and dirty litter bags. They are the right size and work perfectly for me. I already pay for them, when I pay for my groceries.

She can make multiple trips with smaller qualities in the bags OR keep reusable bags in her car to place the excess items into. :nod:

I already stated what i think of "re-usable" shopping bags. Full of germs. Yuck.

 

[minka]

1) because I am past middle age, arthritic and live on the second floor, and don't have a lot of free time. Do I want to make 50 trips up and down the stairs to bring my groceries in, one item at a time? I do not. Nor do I want loose grocery items rolling around in my trunk, which is also used to store things like hiking boots, work related stuff and so on.

2) because I USE the bags as trash bags and dirty litter bags. They are the right size and work perfectly for me. I already pay for them, when I pay for my groceries.

Fair enough.

I already stated what i think of "re-usable" shopping bags. Full of germs. Yuck.

I don't understand the full of germs thing. The outsides of most everything you buy at the grocery store has germs on it.... and then you place them in plastic bags that are certainly not sanitized... so what's the difference between that and a cloth bag?

I'm not asking this question in relation to saving plastic or plastic vs cloth btw, I really just don't understand the logic behind it, especially when several people have mentioned they toss them in with the wash. :dk:

 

[mrblanche]

How is it not all good if it benefits the environment??

Because it's not an unmitigated benefit.  There are thousands of factors to consider, from the cost transporting bags made overseas (they don't have to be, but they usually are, and they have to be trucked to the port, carried by an oil-burning ship, trucked from the U.S. port to a distribution center, trucked from the distribution center to the store, etc.), to disposing of them, to heating water and running a washer and dryer when you launder them, to disposing of the dirty water from the laundry, and so on.  Ultimately, it's probably a small benefit to the environment, but not the slam dunk the cloth-bag advocates claim.  Add in the benefits of re-use of the plastic bags (most of mine are used as trash bags, and this is common among truckers, preventing a lot of waste from being thrown out on the roads and parking lots), the use of store bags as small trash receptacles, preventing the use of purpose-bought plastic trash bags, and a number of other factors, and, as I said, the balance comes closer and closer to being a wash.

 

[smitten4kittens]

Excellent post. Environmental projects aren't always as "green" as people want to believe they are.

 

[ldg]

Ok, no need for speculation.

http://cascade.uoregon.edu/fall2012/expert/expert-article/

Chemistry professor David Tyler (left) has taken an interest in the environmentally sensitive decisions that confront consumers every day: Plastic grocery bags . . . or paper? Take the car to work . . . or public transit? Disposable cups . . . or a ceramic mug that can be used over and over again?

Tyler has surveyed some of the research on these alternatives and has concluded that the environmental impact of some of our “green” choices can be surprising when you consider their effects from cradle to grave—that is, the total impact from the point a product is created from raw materials, through its manufacturing, distribution and consumer use, ending with its disposal or recycling.

These “life-cycle assessments” broaden the conventional definition of environmental impact by taking into account all energy and material inputs and then the related consequences, which could include downsides such as climate change, smog, water pollution, land use, depletion of fossil fuels and more.

There are life-cycle assessments for everything from owning a dog to buying locally grown tomatoes. Tyler’s conclusion? Consider all the options and make an informed decision—some of the things thought to be hard on the environment might not be so bad after all, depending on what’s most important to you.

Interview by Matt Cooper

Q: In looking at the research that’s out there, what have you found regarding plastic shopping bags versus paper or cotton bags?

A: There are really good things about plastic bags—they produce less greenhouse gas, they use less water and they use far fewer chemicals compared to paper or cotton. The carbon footprint— that is, the amount of greenhouse gas that is produced during the life cycle of a plastic bag—is less than that of a paper bag or a cotton tote bag. If the most important environmental impact you wanted to alleviate was global warming, then you would go with plastic.

Q: Why is the carbon footprint for a plastic bag less than that of a paper bag or cotton?

A: Cotton is typically grown on semiarid land so it consumes a huge amount of water and you also need a lot of pesticides. About 25 percent of the pesticides used in this country are used on cotton. Paper is just typically considered a fairly polluting industry. Whereas the petroleum industry, where we get our plastics, doesn’t waste anything. Chemists have had sixty to seventy years to make the production of plastics fairly efficient and so typically there is not a lot of waste in the petroleum industry.

He also found via the life-cycle assessment that the average environmental impact of a pet is greater than the environmental impact of a typical SUV. I believe it.

 

[otto]

Thanks for the info Laurie. As I said way back when in this thread, stores are not trying to reduce or eliminate plastic bag use because they think it is "environmentally friendly". That's just a marketing scheme. They are just trying to increase their profits. Around here, stores sell "reusable" shopping bags at every register. $4 each. So they make a profit there, plus increase their profit when people don't use the bags they provide "free of charge". Bags, the cost of which, I am certain, has already been added to the price of the groceries. :lol3:

 

[minka]

But what if your reusable bag is made from plastic??

It also doesn't address the problem of all those bags ending up in landfills.

 

[ldg]

But what if your reusable bag is made from plastic??
It also doesn't address the problem of all those bags ending up in landfills.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sc...g-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm

Of course, the chemicals and fertilizers used to produce the cotton or hemp or whatever wind up in our water tables, rivers, streams, etc. Farming is quite chemical intensive.

 

[stealthkitty]

The article LDG posted does address the problem of plastic bags in landfills. It says you have to choose your values:

Q: You’ve raised a point that is important for all of these decisions—it depends on what’s most important to you. What are some different values that people might be weighing?

A: There are thirteen or fourteen standard environmental impacts that life-cycle assessments consider. Those impacts include global warming, carbon footprint, human toxicity, algae growth in lakes and other bodies of water, resource consumption, ozone depletion and smog production.

But how those impacts are weighed depends on context. So, for example, if we lived in Los Angeles, anything that created smog would be really high on our list. But in Eugene that’s not so much of an issue. In Eugene, it’s a little easier to say, let’s worry about global warming rather than smog. If you live in a community that doesn’t have much landfill space or you were worried about plastic bags washing into the ocean, then you would want to find alternatives to plastic because it has a longer life span than other materials.

I think the only valid conclusion we can come to is that the problem is extremely complex, legislation will not solve it, and each of us has to do the best with what we have in order to be responsible. There doesn't seem to be a right or wrong way to see the usage of plastic bags (except, maybe, to use as few of them as possible), which, in all reality, is only a small sliver of the overall problem.

 

[minka]

LDG- they might have a chemical for breaking down plastic bags, but is it being used? If not.. Then it doesn't matter..



JUST saw the sign for Target in Alameda county posted on Facebook. And someone made a good suggestion, one that I actually had made for my friend whose family is overseas: shop online!!
This is especially helpful for people who cannot lift heavy items. :nod:
Apparently Safeway does it, and the shipping is very affordable: only six dollars! The lady who suggested it uses it for detergent, milk and other heavy items. :-)

 

[otto]

I shop on line for a lot of things, but not everything is cheaper on line. I buy most personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, lotion, toothpaste, floss), all canned cat food, and many dry goods food items, things I use on a regular basis, on line.

Of course, the boxes still have to be carried into the house, so as far as carring heavy loads is concerned, the issue is the same.

And ordering on line doesn't use plastic bags, but it sure uses a lot of cardboard and plastic packing materials. :lol3:

 

[zohdee]

I shop on line for a lot of things, but not everything is cheaper on line. I buy most personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, lotion, toothpaste, floss), all canned cat food, and many dry goods food items, things I use on a regular basis, on line.
Of course, the boxes still have to be carried into the house, so as far as carring heavy loads is concerned, the issue is the same.

And ordering on line doesn't use plastic bags, but it sure uses a lot of cardboard and plastic packing materials.

I was going to say all those packaging peanuts or bubble wrap.  You beat me to it Otto. 

 

[Willowy]

I was going to say all those packaging peanuts or bubble wrap.  You beat me to it Otto. 

Almost all companies I order from that use peanuts use cornstarch peanuts, not styrofoam, now. I just wash 'em down the tub :lol3:. But Amazon, especially, likes to use those inflated plastic bags for padding. They say they're biodegradable, but like I said before, that doesn't mean much if your trash goes to a sanitary landfill.

It's probably better, environmentally speaking, to buy from stores, as the packaging and trucks all go to one place in larger quantities, than to order from somewhere far away and have stuff packaged and trucked directly to you.