Pine Litter - almost killed my cat twice in 2 months?

[RUkitten?]

Is anyone else seeing lung, throat, trachea, thyroid, nasal, sinus disease in cats who use pine litter? What about renal or heart disease? Has anyone had any issue that resolved when pine litter was removed?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I've done a cursory search for pine litter issues here on our website, and really the only issue I found was getting cats to use this type of litter. No references to health issues.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I will just add that ANY living creature can have allergies or sensitivities to any substance, and at any time. It would be fairly unusual, but certainly possible, to have a severe reaction to pine oil. I know that MOST rats do. You have to be very careful with their bedding.

 

[RUkitten?]

Thank you for looking into it. I am trying to reach the pntdldy who wrote this: "Even kiln dried, once the litter becomes saturated it can release the toxic phenols (aromatics) which is what induces the organ failure. " on this thread: Is Feline Pine Dangerous? Alternatives? She only posted the one time it seems so she may never get my message =(

I have had cats get sick 4 times when I've used pine pellets (specifically kiln-dried and supposedly safe for cats). Usually it was respiratory/skin irritation but now I wonder if that litter may have caused the cancers and other issues that 4 of my cats died from in a short period of time a few years back. One had lung cancer which is very rare in cats unless they are exposed to a lot of inhaled irritants (I don't use any strong chemicals or irritants in the house). Another had a tumor that seemed to develop in her trachea/throat. The other two had thyroid cancer and liver and kidney disease. A 5th cat was showing the same symptoms as the one who got the tumor in the throat area but thankfully she recovered from whatever was causing it.

More recently, I used pine pellets again for foster kittens. They kept getting sick. They had tremors intermittently. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. They had eye and respiratory symptoms but this didn't respond to the usual treatments. A couple of them were "low pee'ers" and sat their little tinklers right on the pellets to pee. Those two eventually had what looked like burned sheaths/penises. When I noticed the penises being irritated is when I got rid of the pine litter and soon after they all started to improve.

Most recently, it was my two senior cats who got sick. I really need to find out more about this litter.

thank you all for your help!

 

[RUkitten?]

since there is no urine odor, often for several days, the sawdust in the underboxes got really wet. This would definitely explain why I would see a high rate of reactions when most people don't see any issue. That said, unless phenols are tested for, most people would have no idea if they are contributing to renal, liver, heart, skin, respiratory, and neurologic disease. Right? We don't test for the presence of phenols so we have no idea how many cats are killed by them. Catnip contains phenols. It's just one of many, many products which does.

 

[RUkitten?]

Phenols are toxic to all cats, when exposure levels are high enough. Amount of water consumed and amount of exposure to other toxins would affect the rate at which disease might be developed. Genetics may play a role but every cat will die if exposed to enough phenol. I have to wonder what happens to all the cats that live in pine forests. Do they all die young or have chronic ails? Perhaps the joy of being able to roam out in the woods counters their stress enough that their bodies have a better ability to process toxins in general. Or maybe their bodies have some way of becomign more efficient at eliminating the phenols if they have gradual exposure. The phenols aren't broken down but can be eliminated with time or with substanced that may attract the into the GI tract. MSM, for example, is abundant in wild grasses and fresh food (like mice one might catch in the forest). I think it could potentially bind with phenols to help a cat detoxify. ??? I could be very wrong about that, it was just the first thing to come to mind.

 

[kittenmittens84]

We had to use pine litter for a while because my cat had pica and kept eating his clay litter. It was fine, just annoying to scoop because it doesn’t clump. The one we used was kiln dried to remove phenols/oils.

 

[Mmart3854]

Hi! I’m late to this because I just joined this app like 10 minutes ago while doing research on HCM.

I wanted to share my cat’s experience with pine pellets - he used it from day 1 when I got him a year ago (a year ago yesterday actually!) he’s a year and three months ish now. Anyway, I loved the pellets - such an easy cleanup and I didn’t have to step in sand everyday! In Jan/Feb, he started occasionally pooping outside of his litter box…right in front of it. It starting happening more often and then it was everyday, and then he started peeing on the floor too, and in the vents. terrible time for my poor brother that I was staying with for a little while

I tried everything to no avail but then it clicked to try to change the litter…..immediately started using it again! Hasn’t been an issue since. Now I fight my hatred of the regular clumping litter everyday

But, when all of this was happening he was having diarrhea towards the end of it. I took him to the vet to treat the diarrhea and they told me he had a heart murmur and wanted to monitor it. A few vet trips, blood tests & an ultrasound later, he was diagnosed with severe HCM (type of heart disease). The pine pellets may have bought him some extra time with me, which is kind of crazy….literally just from my cat suddenly having an issue with his litter I find out he has a heart disease.Your post really makes me wonder, I wonder if there could be a connection.

 

[Kflowers]

When I first got cats, long ago, we were told that pine sap and pine tar were dangerous for them and to keep them away from pine based cleaners. When they came up with pine scented liter and then pine pellets I thought they fixed it in the treatment. Now I wonder.

As you say cats live in pine forests. However, cats claws may not dig deep enough into the pine tree bark to reach the oils. I know that cherry wood should not be used to make scratching posts since it will get under the claws then when they clean their claws they swallow the bits of bark, which has cyanide in it. Breaking the bark may be the key to what becomes dangerous.

 

[RUkitten?]

The pine pellets may have bought him some extra time with me, which is kind of crazy….literally just from my cat suddenly having an issue with his litter I find out he has a heart disease.Your post really makes me wonder, I wonder if there could be a connection.

Hi!

I am sorry for your kitty's heart trouble. I am a bit confused about your statement. Do you think the pine may have caused the heart trouble? I'm inclined to believe the phenols in pine litter were something he was aware of and wanted to avoid.

A cat doesn't want to get pee on it's paws so it may not urinate outside of a box as readily as it would poop outside. If the problem was something coming out of the litter, it makes sense he would avoid pooping there first and eventually avoid urinating there. Using vents was your cats way of avoiding the box and not getting pee on his paws. Smart kitty- poor brother.

We stopped using wood litter 1.5 years ago and put the older cats on a detox/inflammation product that I developed to help cats with thyroid issues. One of the ingredients (DMSO) should help cats eleminate the phenols and/or recover from the damage caused by them.

I don't know if my cat is cured but she had fewer and fewer fainting episodes over that first year. I haven't seen any in the past 6 months =) Her heart may be mostly or fully recovered. She turns 19 in a few days and I am so very happy that she's getting better with age

Her littermate is also getting stronger and happier in recent months. His digestion is so much better and he's mentally more with it.

Because the older cats are doing so well, I've got all of the young cats eating MSM with molybdenum (added to meals). I'm trying to sneak in my DMSO-detox solution too but they don't tolerate the flavor as well as the older cats. I want to protect them because I can only do so much to prevent phenols and other volatile/aromatic compounds from getting into them.

 

[RUkitten?]

When I first got cats, long ago, we were told that pine sap and pine tar were dangerous... Breaking the bark may be the key to what becomes dangerous.

I think the "smell of pine" is phenols in the air and so, a pine forest, if it smells like pine should have abundant phenols. I know X-mas trees smell like pine but that could be because they are cut at the trunk and otherwise starting to decompose. I Don't think we'll have any answers until we can figure out how to test for phenols in cats and in various environments. I will pay for testing if you guys can help me find a place to have this done affordably. I saved the pine litter that I believe made my cats sick. It could be a "bad batch" perhaps. I won't know until it tested and compared to other batches. I would really love to get to the bottom of this.

I want to test the following:
The dry pellets from my bag for phenol and other aromatic/volatile compounds
The dry pellets from a new bag for phenol and other aromatic/volatile compounds
The saturated (with urine) pellets from my bag for phenol and other aromatic/volatile compounds and gases (which may be created by adding moisture)
The saturated (with urine) pellets from a new bag for phenol and other aromatic/volatile compounds and gases

Is there anything more I should consider testing?