Obi keeps throwing up hairballs.. : (

[oneandahalfcats]

 
True, most fibers are both soluble and insoluble. I've noticed bigger stools with the peas and carrots, even without the psyllium. The psyllium seems to do a better job of softening stools and removing hair, and maybe this is because I add A LOT of water to the tiny, tiny amount of psyllium before even mixing it with the food (you know I am paranoid about Tim's stools getting too bulky). Keeping the peas and carrots in just resulted in bigger stools (yes, I am measuring these days). But every cat is different!

I guess my biggest concern when it comes to stool size is whether my cat is retaining nutrients from food? I know when Max was on the RC Fibre Response, his stools were huge, smelly and the color of the food. I knew the kibble was going right through him.  If Max has nice, generous stools that are healthy on wet canned, I am not as concerned as he is a big cat that has had issues with constipation and so by virtue of this, his elimination will be different from another cat.

Re. the water with psyllium, agree, really important.

Water is important with SEB as well, but SEB is not a bulking kind of fiber like psyllium.

 

[goholistic]

My main concern with the OP using psyllium for Obi was that couldn't it also bulk up the hairballs sitting in the stomach? Thus, making them more difficult to pass on either end?! 

The OP was originally giving 1/2 tsp per meal (see post # 12), which is a pretty significant amount, IMO.

 

[abbyntim]

Re: Psyllium, I know it is controversial. I resisted it because of my fear of adding bulk. I am finding a tiny amount mixed with A LOT of water doesn't seem to add bulk but does seem to bring out some hairy stools; maybe the right amount moves the hair along- I really don't know, but did notice hairier stools once we started psyllium. I know a lot of vets are quick to recommend fiber and a lot of it for intestinal problems; I am not sure I agree with that. Those of you who know I am weaning my cat Tim off cisapride know that I am terrified of bulky stools, and I generally tend to think cats don't need much fiber. But I think an appropriate amount of the right kind of fiber could help a cat get back on track and may be helpful on an as-needed basis thereafter.

I also agree 1/2 teaspoon of psyllium is a lot. Tim is getting less than 1/16 teaspoon every other day with a lot of water, and that is working nicely for him. And I intend to reduce even that tiny amount. I also think psyllium needs to be taken with a lot of water because of what @GoHolistic mentions - it could bulk up in the stomach. I know I personally have experienced a "fiber knot" in my stomach if I didn't drink enough water after a green smoothie and a lot of veggies and it's mighty uncomfortable. I think fiber is trial and error and individual for each cat. But I would watch the stools closely and if they're getting big and staying there, or getting even bigger, I'd cut back and keep cutting until the stools are normal but I still saw benefits. If I couldn't get there, I'd try something else.

And I think along the same lines as @oneandahalfcats: If the stool is too big, the cat is probably not absorbing nutrients properly or is eating junky food; but size also varies by cat size and other things. We know the OP's cat is not eating junky food, so if the stool size is increasing, maybe the large dose of psyllium is bulking the stool too much and should be reduced. Tim is about 14-15 pounds, Abby is about 9-10 pounds. Their stool sizes are quite different, but each cat has a "normal" range. When Tim's stool sizes started creeping up beyond his normal range for a few days, we made appropriate changes (for my cats, inclusion of those peas and carrots really seems to make a difference). So far so good; but again, if my changes were not having the desired effect and the stools were bigger than what I expect to see for a given cat, I would try something else.

I am concerned the OP is trying a lot of things and she might not know what treatment is doing what. And poor Obi might be getting sick and throwing up food and hairballs in part due to all the medications and new supplements. I would encourage the OP to try one thing for a set amount of time, take detailed notes regarding everything, re-evaluate, and change if necessary. Change might involve increasing or decreasing the dose for a set amount of time, then re-evaluating. Or it might mean adding something new. Or it might mean stopping something and adding something else. I also understand how concerned the OP is about Obi and she wants to provide relief for him. I have been there, I am still there with Tim. But based on my experience and the guidance from others here, including both @oneandahalfcats and @GoHolistic, I would recommend slow changes, one thing at at time.

 

[ldg]

Someone may have mentioned this, but without sufficient water, metamucil (psyllium) can CAUSE constipation.

 

[ldg]

I am concerned the OP is trying a lot of things and she might not know what treatment is doing what. And poor Obi might be getting sick and throwing up food and hairballs in part due to all the medications and new supplements. I would encourage the OP to try one thing for a set amount of time, take detailed notes regarding everything, re-evaluate, and change if necessary. Change might involve increasing or decreasing the dose for a set amount of time, then re-evaluating. Or it might mean adding something new. Or it might mean stopping something and adding something else. I also understand how concerned the OP is about Obi and she wants to provide relief for him. I have been there, I am still there with Tim. But based on my experience and the guidance from others here, including both @oneandahalfcats
and @GoHolistic
, I would recommend slow changes, one thing at at time.

:nod: absolutely. Great advice.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
My main concern with the OP using psyllium for Obi was that couldn't it also bulk up the hairballs sitting in the stomach? Thus, making them more difficult to pass on either end?! 

The OP was originally giving 1/2 tsp per meal (see post # 12), which is a pretty significant amount, IMO.

Yes, potentially. If you have hairballs that are backed up in the digestive tract, then you wouldn't want to be using psyllium at this point, just as you wouldn't want to use psyllium in times of severe constipation as it can really make things worse. A little psyllium can be used as a preventative to constipation and I think Myrnafae has been using it as such, but should not be necessary in conjunction with the SEB. As far as dosage, it depends. If a cat is getting a 1/2 tsp per day, I don't think this is too much provided there isn't already a lot of fiber and carb sources IN the food. The basis for Royal Canin's Fibre Response food is psyllium and rice hulls. Hard to say how much of this is in the food but its listed high up in the ingredients list. This stuff does work quite well in promoting BMs in cats that need fiber. Too bad the ingredients (corn, wheat, rice) are so inappropriate.

 

[myrnafaye]

Hello, All:

Obi is having a pretty good day.  I just wanted to clarify a thing or two and perhaps get some clarification.

My vet suggested metameucil because in theory it would bulk up his stools and help the hairballs pass.  It bulked up his stools and he still had hairballs.  When I read about the SEB, it made sense to me, a lot of sense, and people seem to have success with adding that.  In any case, it seems that, like the EYL and the probiotic, it can do no harm.  I have stopped the metameucil as it was mentioned here that stools that are smaller are actually better an that large stools can cause other problems.

Obi is on Nature's Variety rabbit, so that is a very good diet with veggies and he gets at least some of his hydration from the food.

My vet wanted to increase his pred but now we have agreed to see how the SEB goes.  I am good with that.  He is getting 1/4 tsp twice a day (about 1.5 ml); my only question is, should I increase it if he continues to throw hairballs? is it safe to give 1/2 tsp twice oa day, or, should I only increase one dosage if I need to?

Or wait - and ask if and when it is necessary.  You are all so helpful here.  I cannot believe I found this site.

 

[abbyntim]

Glad to read Obi's having a good day!

I can't give you much advice about SEB dose, as we are just beginning to experiment with this. But I think you are wise to drop the metamucil. I'm not sure a bulkier stool will help with hairballs, to be honest. I think some people see a benefit because the psyllium/metamucil may help move things along; I think that is what I am seeing. As mentioned in previous posts, a bulky stool is not really a good thing, taking into account the size of the cat when determining "bulky". And if Obi is still having hairballs, then perhaps this is not an effective solution for him.

I think the combo of probiotics and SEB is good, as it may go a long way towards improving Obi's digestion and thus enabling him to pass hairballs in his stool. Probiotics and better quality food really helped Tim a lot and I noticed a dramatic decrease in hairballs. The tiny bit of psyllium that I've been giving him has helped, I think, as I'm seeing hairier stools. Now I am trying to optimize his digestion and may transition from psyllium to SEB over the next several weeks as we complete the process of weaning him from cisapride, but it will take time to determine which one works better for him. Then I will see how he does with no added fiber, as my goal is to keep him on a low residue diet because I think that will be the best thing for him in the long run.

 

[myrnafaye]

Thanks, Abby.  It sounds like you have had a lot of challenges with Tim, too.  I can say, though, that Obi seems to be feeling a lot better the last couple of days, whether it is dumb luck, or the SEB.  But SEB seems to have no down side to it.  I like that a lot.

 

[abbyntim]

I really hope Obi continues to feel better. Maybe this will be the winning combo for him!

Regarding Tim and his hairballs, I really had no idea they were not normal and could be a sign of deeper problems. He always had them very frequently and even though Abby never did, the vet didn't seem terribly worried and just prescribed Laxatone. It wasn't until those vets couldn't help us with Tim's increasing list of inflammatory problems and I changed his diet on my own that the hairballs stopped and I realized they weren't normal. We're now working with a holistic veterinarian in an attempt to resolve his issues and we're making slow but mostly steady progress. It's hard to be patient and I've rushed some changes or tried too many things at once, which ultimately hasn't been good for either of us.

 

[myrnafaye]

oh, sorry, LOL, I thought YOU were Abby, with Tim the cat!

Yes, at times I wish there was a holistic vet near me, but I dont think there is and years ago I worked with a vet via phone - she was a student of Dr. Pitcairn - in Oregon, I believe - and it was a nightmare, a flippin' nightmare.  PM me if you are interested.

How I feel is this:  I dont believe in just throwing drugs at a problem.  That is like a depressed person just taking anti depressants, and not getting therapy to find out the source of the depression. Guess what happens when the person stops the medication??

So, I am happy to know about alternatives, supplements that might help but WON'T hurt.

I am grateful Obi' s appetite is good and shows no other signs of distress.  And I know the view of hairballs is changing.  Well, look at the crap that is in most commercial cat foods - they are mostly convenience foods for the owner.  Put down a bowl of dry chow so your cat can eat any time - no fuss, no mess -but most dry food is awful.  I am glad there are alternatives on the market now that are healthy.  I am willing to pay more for my own healthy foods, and for my cats.  Its a lot better than the agony of a sick cat and emergency vet bills!

I hope Tim is better soon.  In that one article on SEB, it said it was soothing for the pancreas.  Please keep us posted.

 

[myrnafaye]

Reporting in on Obi:

No hairball vomiting since I started the SEB on Friday, and am feeding him 3X's a day.  Fingers crossed!

 

[denice]

This is very good news.  Hopefully it will continue.  It always takes a little time to find the right combination for a kitty.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Reporting in on Obi:

No hairball vomiting since I started the SEB on Friday, and am feeding him 3X's a day.  Fingers crossed!

Hey, good stuff! Positive vibes for continued good progress

 

[myrnafaye]

Thanks so much!  I think they enjoy being fed more often even if the meals are a little smaller.

 

[myrnafaye]

Yes, it IS very good news, Denise.  I am hoping that I might be able to cut back his prenisolone soon as well.  I dont know when to start that, so if anyone has thoughts, please let me know.  He is on 2.5 mg a day which I know is not very high, and that is supposedly for his allergies/inflammation as well as gut/inflammation. 

 

[denice]

Of course you need to work with the vet on cutting back the steroid.  He is on a very low dose so I would continue for awhile.  It takes a while for the full benefits of the food and probiotics to kick in so the steroid is helping with controlling any inflammation for now.  Side effects from a steroid start with much longer term usage if they start at all.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

The SEB can help with inflammation as well, but I would agree that you should work with your vet regarding a safe weaning off process.  The initial results are very encouraging though so I would have the discussion with your vet, soon.

 

[abbyntim]

 
Reporting in on Obi:

No hairball vomiting since I started the SEB on Friday, and am feeding him 3X's a day.  Fingers crossed!

Great news! Hope it continues. And I agree you should work with your vet to cut back on the prenisolone, as you may need to taper doses.

 

[myrnafaye]

Obi update:  Obi had been doing great on 1/2 tsp SEB, 3 smaller meals, no vominting of anything since before last Friday.    WEll, that just came to an abrupt halt.  I  am not sure what happened, but I found a HUGE hairball, his 2:00 meal vomited, and in the middle of it was leaf from a small rose bush plant that I am taking to a friend for dinner tomorrow night. I know roses are edible, and the leaves can be irritating as follows from an on line article:

"Most of the 150 or so species of roses and the thousands of their cultivars produce showy, fragrant single or double flowers. The blossoms come in a variety of hues including red, pink, yellow, white, purple and orange. No matter what their appearance, all plants of the Rosa genus are classified as nontoxic to cats, according to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. This means that if Fluffy nibbles on thornless green leaves or colorful petals of your garden roses, all your feline may experience is a bit of mild gastrointestinal distress, including diarrhea, vomiting or stomach pain."

But I feel so bad! I thought that what I was doing with Obi was working so well, but he really threw up a HUGE hairball, and a lot of vomit.  So I dont know if he had not ingested the leaf, would the food and hairball passed through his system?  should I increase his SEB syrup a little?  Is this a minor setback or do I need to increase his predisolone again?  BTW, he seems totally FINE mood wise.