Need advice on "rescuing" (aka stealing) roommate's neglected cat when I move

[nomoremommyfood]

This is my first post on this site, though I've perused the forums in hope of finding a solution to a problem that has plagued me for a long time.

I live with six (yes, six) roommates and, at first, two well-cared-for cats ("Perch," is my cat and the other owned by a responsible roommate). Six months ago, we rented a bedroom to "Jason," who unexpectedly brought a third cat, "Flea." From Flea's first appearance - begging for attention in the kitchen with no owner (or litter box!) in sight - I took on Flea's care...and costs...assuming myself Flea's new "parent." Flea and I have bonded to the point that Flea treats me as his owner and Perch as his "brother." Apparently, Jason thinks otherwise and won't let me adopt Flea.

In six month, Jason has given me $40 and four small bags of cheap cat food...yet Flea costs me $50 a month. Jason has virtually no contact with Flea. I just got back from vacation and paid a catsitter for both Perch and Flea...despite Jason being home! Jason is obviously taking advantage of me and I continue in the hope that, one day, he'll willingly give Flea to his unofficial owner.

I am moving at the end of the month and want to take both Perch and Flea with me. My first inclination is to pay Jason for the cat and, if that fails, a.) report neglect to the shelter where Flea was adopted then pick up the cat or, as last resort, b.) take the cat and run!

Does anyone know if a shelter will "reclaim" a cat? I'm uncomfortable with the "cat-napping" idea - can I get in legal trouble for this? Should I just leave Flea behind...and potentially reclaim him when my roommates tire of a cat with no litter box?

Thank you in advance for your help !

 

[Willowy]

I suppose you could just take him when you go, and see if Jason does anything. Or, like you said, leave the cat and wait for someone to get tired of hi, being neglected and call you to get him (but make sure you enlist one of the roommates to call you before anything really bad happens).

As for legal trouble, if he never took the cat to the vet he has no legal proof the cat is his. I don't think you can report neglect until he's actually being neglected (which he isn't while you're still caring for him), and even then I don't know if they'd let you keep him or not.

You could present Jason with an itemized bill of everything you've spent on the cat and say that if he doesn't pay you, you'll take the cat as payment. But then you might have a quandary if he actually pays you.

 

[ktlynn]

Thank you for caring so much about this poor boy.  He found his guardian angel.  Seems to me that you, Perch and Flea have become a great little family.

Jason, however,  clearly needs to have his "cat dad" card revoked.  Why he ever acquired poor Flea in the first place is a mystery.

I'm not sure how much help you'd get from the shelter.  It's a case of your word against Jason's.  Given the poor economy, the vast majority of shelters just do not have the resources to pursue legal action against an adopter.   If Flea came from a no-kill shelter, they may simply not have room at this time to take him back.  Shelters are full to busting now since more people than ever are relinquishing their pets because they can no longer afford them. And if he was in a kill shelter, you certainly don't want him returning there.  You could try calling the shelter Flea came from and without identifying yourself, tell them the situation and see how they respond.

If you take Flea, it's also Jason's word versus yours.  How will he prove it?

Give Flea a new name and take him to your vet.   Pay for an exam and blood work.  Keep the receipt.  You'll have proof that you are caring for this cat - because he is your cat.

Grab Flea and go. If you don't, once you move you'll have little to no chance of rescuing him. I know you feel uncomfortable about it.  But ask yourself what you will truly feel worse about - taking Flea without permission from a complete idiot who couldn't care less about him or leaving him behind to go back to a life of neglect with no guardian angel now to save him.

You have a chance to give Flea a life full of love.  He deserves that. 

 

[determined]

Hello nomoremommyfood, What you have done so far is very nice, however what you are planning to do is illegal, and can get you in serious trouble for being too nice.  I love cats and want to be taken care off but I am going to be direct with you and show you why it's illegal. So please be open and see both sides of your situation. 

The fact you stated and reason for your post is that Jason won't give up Flea to you. Remember that is his choice, he brought Flea there and is the owner and has all rights over his cat. It's his choice to treat animals the way he wants to, I am not saying its right or wrong nor do I know what he does, but it's his choice. and he can be arrested for it.

At the point when you noticed what was going on you had choices to make and you chose to take on the cost and responsibility

of Flea because you felt his owner was irresponsible. You asked for money and he did not refund you fully and you continued.

Now you have built up a relationship with Flea and you are attached. You say jason is using you and getting away with having you pay for everything, without him even asking and maybe this is true. 

You should speak to Jason and tell him what he is doing is wrong and you are going to call authorities if he does not pay his dues and change.  Be aware not everyone can spent the same $ or time you spend on your cat. So whether the food he buys is expensive or cheap does not matter. He is providing cat food for Flea and a roof to sleep under for a cat that may have otherwise been on the street barely getting by. 

You did an admirable thing so far taking care of Flea for his irresponsible owner, now you have an even bigger challenge. Being objective and unattached.  You should provide a Bill to jason for the food and products you bought, (thing is you did this on your own, without him asking) but you can try see if he'll pay you back. If so you are lucky. At the moment you have to be happy and content that you took care of Flea for the time you were there because it was the Right thing to do.  I advise you, do not to steal, flea does not belong to you. I know you will be sad but you must be content. By stealing you are doing worse than Jason and causing pain to another person, and giving him reason to call the authorities on you.

Jason probably loves his cat very much and admires you for how you take care of Flea and he knows he's a screw up and can't take care as well as you do.  But perhaps Flea is the only one who shows him love no matter how screwed up he is, a kind that he does not get from others.  He may never admit, but perhaps he would have learned a lot from you.  

 

[ktlynn]

Originally Posted by determined  

It's his choice to treat animals the way he wants to...and he can be arrested for it.

Animal cruelty laws vary between states, as do penalties.   Arrests don't often happen and when they do it is for extreme acts of neglect/cruelty where there is incontrovertible evidence.  It's very unlikely that Jason will ever have to pay any penalty for the mistreatment of his cat, much less be arrested.

You should speak to Jason and tell him what he is doing is wrong and you are going to call authorities if he does not pay his dues and change.

It seems the OP has spoken to Jason about this, even to the point of asking to adopt Flea.  Threatening to call authorities might work but it can also backfire by causing an already cold-hearted owner to avoid any problems by making the cat disappear.  Nothing should be done that could potentially make the situation worse for Flea.

 Be aware not everyone can spent the same $ or time you spend on your cat. So whether the food he buys is expensive or cheap does not matter. He is providing cat food for Flea and a roof to sleep under for a cat that may have otherwise been on the street barely getting by. 

The quality of cat food is the least of the problem here.  The man has not even been providing food for his own cat.  He's ceded that responsibility to nomoremommyfood.  The OP said that Flea came from a shelter, so it's inaccurate that the cat would be on the street if it weren't for Jason.  In fact, if it weren't for the OP stepping in to care for this cat,  Flea would actually have been better off in the shelter where at least he'd get food, care and some attention.

You did an admirable thing so far taking care of Flea for his irresponsible owner, now you have an even bigger challenge. Being objective and unattached.  You should provide a Bill to jason for the food and products you bought, (thing is you did this on your own, without him asking) but you can try see if he'll pay you back. If so you are lucky. At the moment you have to be happy and content that you took care of Flea for the time you were there because it was the Right thing to do.  I advise you, do not to steal, flea does not belong to you. I know you will be sad but you must be content. By stealing you are doing worse than Jason and causing pain to another person, and giving him reason to call the authorities on you.

Jason could call authorities and file a police report.  Again, what happens next varies depending on location.   But few local police departments will trouble themselves with this type of situation.  In all probability, they won't pursue this.

What Jason could do is take the OP to civil court.  He'd have to provide some proof /evidence of course.  How will he do that?  Is he the kind of person who's inclined to go to considerable trouble, time and expense?  He couldn't even be bothered to provide his cat with food.

Jason probably loves his cat very much and admires you for how you take care of Flea and he knows he's a screw up and can't take care as well as you do.  But perhaps Flea is the only one who shows him love no matter how screwed up he is, a kind that he does not get from others.  He may never admit, but perhaps he would have learned a lot from you.  

Why would you believe that "Jason probably loves his cat very much"?    Was it the fact that the guy didn't even have a  litterbox for him?   Or was it that he couldn't be bothered to feed Flea and was just as happy to let someone else do it, and pay for the food as well?   The OP has to hire a catsitter not just for her cat but Flea too - while Flea's owner is home!!! 

Where is there any evidence that Jason even knows the cat exists, much less loves him?  

 

[aeevr]

here's an idea.

Move the cat to a new home NOW (like with a friend) and pretend like he got out of the house and is missing.

 

[kittymom88]

I definitely say take the kitty and run. Possession is 9/10 of the law

 

[ldg]

Did Jason rescue Flea off the street, or does he have adoption papers from a shelter?

When you took Flea to the vet, was it in your name, or did you create an account in your roommate's name?

Is Flea microchipped? To whom is it registered?

If you have taken Flea to the vet, and the records are in your name, I'd either get Flea microchipped NOW and registered in your name, or if Flea is microchipped, and was never registered, I'd get the registration done in your name now.

If the roommate has adoption papers, but you have the vet records and the microchip registration.... seems to me that if roommate called the police to report theft after you left, he wouldn't have anything to back up that claim. He'd look like someone who gave you the cat and changed his mind. :dk:

At this point in time, I'm not sure you actually would be stealing Flea - he might already be legally considered yours. :dk:

 

[determined]

 

Hello KTLynn,

Thanks for your response. I am not trying to be argumentative but I will restate my points one last time in this post. I do not support Jason's doings. but none of us here are in any position to judge or take action against.

The point is stealing someone's cat or property is illegal. By advising someone to steal ad how to makes you also part of that crime.

We do not know the details about this besides for the one side we have heard. 

The other point is Jason should pay for what he has done and allowed OP to do and the authorities should have been involved way earlier.

Yes, she spoke to jason and jason did provide money and food, but it was declared cheap cat food and hit time attention deemed not enough by nomoremommy food, compared to what standard?

This is not about punishing Jason, or if OP could get away with stealing. It's about preventing someone from doing something illegal and about following the law.

We live in a democracy and have a government and system with laws to follow. I am not a lawyer but I do know what the right thing is.

I am also HUGE fan not stealing what belongs to someone else. 

Being a Top Cat on this site you have a responsibility, as you can have this entire site shut down for what you are publicly advising. 

I believe Jason loves his cat because he went to a shelter and adopted it. Has been taking care of it best he consciously can, and chooses to KEEP his CAT as OP stated. 

As for a Litterbox, you don't know if Flea goes outdoor to what he needs to, either way those are petty points and OP/nomoremommyfood filled in so he did not need to get a litter box.  OP/nomoremommyfood made choices on her own and now things are not working out how she planned.  

The real problem here is OP allowing herself to be taken advantage off then later deciding she wants Flea as compensation or compensation for her time and money and now that it's not happening she wants to do something illegal rather than get the authorities involved.

I LOVE cats!  but I do not support stealing or cat-napping. This is someone telling another: you don't treat your cat as good as I treat mine, so I'll show you how it's done and then I'll steal your cat.  

You would be really silly to think the Jason would not know you stole his cat and if you do it, you should hope he decides to follow the law in his attempts to get it back.

Stand up for yourself and what's right, make better choices rather than do something illegal.

 

[determined]

 

I do not support Jason's doings.  I love cats and treat them like a goddess.

But You are wrong and your points are childish and not factual. No one is in a position to judge and take action against this Jason.

You do not know the full story only the side of a potential pet thief. 

We live in a democratic country and their are rules and laws to follow. Call the authorities if you have a problem or if someone is breaking the law.

As a Top Cat as stated in your profile you have just put this entire website in danger of getting shut down.

You are publicly advising and explaining to a person how to steal what does not belong to them. You are now an accomplice in a crime.

Jason loves his cat, and takes care of it how he can. Jason said NO he is not allowing OP to adopt his cat. He may not be able to as good as OP takes care of her cat but that does not mean she should steal it.  He is happy his cat has gotten taken care off and has provided what money he can and food for his cat.  If this is not sufficient for OP then she should STOP spending money and time by her own choice on an animal that is not hers, with the hope that the owner decides to give it to her. 

This is someone saying: You do not take care of your animal as well as take care of mine, let me show you how it's done, now pay me back by giving me your animal. Oh you refuse or don't have the money; Then i'm going to steal your cat, and ask people on the internet to help me.

Do Not Steal call the Authorities and have your situation mediated.

The real problem is people with huge egos that think they are the law. KTLynn need to have more integrity in your advice to give to people.

This topic is illegal and perhaps advice and information here should be monitored by authorities.

 

[rosiemac]

The point is stealing someone's cat or property is illegal. By advising someone to steal ad how to makes you also part of that crime.

Being a Top Cat on this site you have a responsibility, as you can have this entire site shut down for what you are publicly advising. 

As KTLynn has already pointed out, laws vary from state to state and even from one town to the next.  For this reason "Nomoremommyfood" may want to  to do his/her own research into their local laws.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/terms-of-service  This link will answer your question with regards to having the site closed down

 

[GoldyCat]

The point is stealing someone's cat or property is illegal. By advising someone to steal ad how to makes you also part of that crime.

Being a Top Cat on this site you have a responsibility, as you can have this entire site shut down for what you are publicly advising. 

As KTLynn has already pointed out, laws vary from state to state and even from one town to the next.  For this reason "Nomoremommyfood" may want to  to do his/her own research into their local laws.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/terms-of-service This link will answer your question with regards to having the site closed down

Also note that Top Cat is simply the designation for a member who has at least 1200 posts and 150 days of membership. She has no more or less responsibility for keeping TCS safe than any other member.

 

[ldg]

Being a Top Cat on this site you have a responsibility, as you can have this entire site shut down for what you are publicly advising. 

...and this kind of knee-jerk drama isn't helpful either. We don't know that what the OP proposes IS even illegal. For all we know, based on the laws where she's located, she already OWNS the kitty.

 

[Willowy]

For all we know, based on the laws where she's located, she already OWNS the kitty.

Quite true. . .in many places, providing food for an animal for 10 days straight makes you the legal owner. So if Jason hasn't paid for food for at least that long, there's a decent chance he forfeited ownership. Worth looking into.

 

[p3 and the king]

Cats and pets are considered personal property by law.  You can try to reason with him or ask him how much he'd want for you to take Flea as your own and with you when you go.  Offer him like $50 first.  That's usually what it costs to adopt a kitty in a lot of areas.  If he refuses, which if he's as neglectful as you say, he probably won't.  $50 will buy a lot of Spaghetti O's.  But if he does refuse, ask him how much he wants.  If it's not too unreasonable, I would say pay it. 

Stealing the cat, which is illegal and if he knows where you are going, he can make trouble for you.  Most people like this don't pursuit it but he might just to be a jerk.  And you can get in trouble.  Even if you tell the cops it's your cat and you've been paying for his care.  It won't matter.  It'll still be you in trouble.  You need to think about whether or not you'd be willing to go through that before stealing the cat. 

You could call the animal shelter he got Flea from but it really depends on the shelter.  Many are so overrun they won't even bother.  And if they do, the cat will pay and possibly with his life. 

 

[minka]

I vote for microchipping him in your name and taking him with you. If he asks, say idk, someone must have left the door open.
0

 

[ktlynn]

Hello KTLynn,

Thanks for your response. I am not trying to be argumentative but I will restate my points one last time in this post. I do not support Jason's doings. but none of us here are in any position to judge or take action against.

The OP came to TCS looking for opinions, thoughts and advice about a troubling situation.    That's what all of us who replied to this thread gave.

The point is stealing someone's cat or property is illegal. By advising someone to steal ad how to makes you also part of that crime.

We do not know the details about this besides for the one side we have heard. 

That's correct that we know one side of the story, and that's the way it is for threads posted on TCS.   Most of us take it on faith that members are truthful in what they write here.   For example, when you say "I love cats and treat them like a goddess" we take you at your word.

The other point is Jason should pay for what he has done and allowed OP to do and the authorities should have been involved way earlier.

Yes, she spoke to jason and jason did provide money and food, but it was declared cheap cat food and hit time attention deemed not enough by nomoremommy food, compared to what standard?

I believe the OP's point in mentioning that Jason gave her $40 and 4 small bags of cheap food was not meant to disparage the quality of the food, per se, but rather that in 6 months of spending at least $50/month on Flea, it did not come close to compensating her for what she spent on the cat.

This is not about punishing Jason, or if OP could get away with stealing. It's about preventing someone from doing something illegal and about following the law.

We live in a democracy and have a government and system with laws to follow. I am not a lawyer but I do know what the right thing is.

I am also HUGE fan not stealing what belongs to someone else. 

I agree that this isn't about punishing Jason.  It's about the concern for the well-being and welfare of a neglected cat.

I believe Jason loves his cat because he went to a shelter and adopted it. Has been taking care of it best he consciously can, and chooses to KEEP his CAT as OP stated.

We don't know for a fact that Jason went to the shelter to adopt Flea.  Though Flea may have been a shelter cat, it's possible that Jason isn't the original adopter, but someone who was given the cat by a person who initially adopted Flea.  Though most shelters stipulate that adopters not give the adopted cat to a third party, people unfortunately break adoption contracts.

It's also a mistake to believe that everyone who adopts from a shelter has a good heart.  Some are looking for mousers, some want entertainment for the kids.  When the novelty wears off, the pet ends up neglected, given away or worse.  Even some people who pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a purebreed dog or cat  end up mistreating them.  Adoption is no guarantee of good intentions or that the animal lives a happy life.

As for a Litterbox, you don't know if Flea goes outdoor to what he needs to, either way those are petty points and OP/nomoremommyfood filled in so he did not need to get a litter box.  OP/nomoremommyfood made choices on her own and now things are not working out how she planned.  

The real problem here is OP allowing herself to be taken advantage off then later deciding she wants Flea as compensation or compensation for her time and money and now that it's not happening she wants to do something illegal rather than get the authorities involved.

 I have to disagree that not providing a cat with a basic necessity like a litterbox is a "petty point".    He also doesn't provide food.  Is that petty too?

I also don't believe that the OP had anything regarding Flea "planned".  It seems that like the rest of the roommates, she was suddenly presented with a situation for which no one was prepared. . If you re-read her post, it appears none of them knew that Jason even had a cat until he moved in.  I don't believe the OP plotted to take Flea from the beginning.

I LOVE cats!  but I do not support stealing or cat-napping. This is someone telling another: you don't treat your cat as good as I treat mine, so I'll show you how it's done and then I'll steal your cat.  

This is not a case of oneupmanship.  The OP took pity on a neglected kitty.  In six months, the owner has shown no sign of being inclined to make any improvements in caring for his cat.    I don't read anything in the OP's post that seems spiteful or hateful.  All I see is real concern for Flea.

Look, this is heartbreaking.  The OP is well-aware she's in a no-win situation.  She's obviously a law-abiding person who is struggling to do what's morally right for an innocent, helpless cat, though legally it may be wrong.   What is the greater transgression - to take Flea and save him from a bleak future, or obey the law and leave him behind where he'll be at the mercy of an owner who doesn't provide the basic necessities for his cat, let alone love and attention?

.

Determined, I respect your passion for your position on this, and looking through your threads I can understand why you feel so deeply about it.  But this is a completely different situation from yours - the circumstances aren't the same.  When I read your posts about your stolen cat, I believe you, as I believe what the OP has posted in this thread is truthful as well.  Sadly, there isn't a lot of hope for Flea that his life will get better unless something drastic is done. 

My heart goes out to you, Determined, and I sincerely hope that your cat is returned to you soon.

:

 

[eb24]

I think we all need to be very cautious with this conversation. There are a lot of assumptions being made about the situation and not nearly enough facts on which to make them. 

Nomoremommyfood: I understand that you care very much for Flea. I think your best bet is to try and talk to Jason. Explain that you and Perch have become very attached to Flea and you would like to adopt him. Offering him financial incentive may make the offer more appealing but in the end Flea is Jason's pet and therefore it is Jason's choice on how to care for him. There are all different types of care. And, what you (and I) think is best may not be what Jason considers best. For example, perhaps he didn't have a litterbox for Flea because he considered him to be an outdoor cat. Or, perhaps Jason knew the place he was moving into had other cats and thought they could all share a litterbox. Honestly, the way I am reading your post it sounds like you voluntarily intervened and there is no way to know how Jason cares for Flea when the responsibility is solely his own. Again, there are all sorts of assumptions that we can make but without the facts that's all they are: assumptions. 

If you genuinely feel that Flea has been neglected or that, by caring for him you have assumed ownership you really should seek the advice of legal counsel. The laws do very significantly not only by state but by county and municipality. You need to do some serious research into what your options are and what the best course of action is. You can also talk to the shelter and see what remedies they provide but as has been pointed out, most shelters are overcrowded and understaffed. At least in my experience they don't often intervene after an animal has been adopted out unless animal control is otherwise involved. 

Of course I love cats and would like to see each and every one have the best possible care, but that is not always the reality. Try to work with Jason to find a resolution you are both comfortable with or contact the proper authorities if you feel it's out of your hands. But, don't put yourself in a situation where you become the bad guy and get in trouble. Doing so is not going to be in Flea's best interest. 

I wish you the best of luck and hope that you and Jason can find a way to do what is best for Flea. 

 

[catsallaround]

If I were in the situation I would have a friend take him now for a full check up/microchip on the cat shes had for "a few months"  Or if there is a petco nearby go there for a rabies and microchip.  Keep in mind that is only if you are sure it is going to be bad for the cat.  He may also just go out and get another or he may go searching high and low.  If it is a no kill shelter there is a higher chance it will look into the case but if it is a city run they are more then likely happy he got out alive.

Is it possible to talk to another roomate about what is going to happen when you are not there to care for flea to try and get them to talk to him and be concerned(if only for the fact that the house will smell or be damaged.  Maybe he will turn and give you the cat if it seems like it will be alot of an issue for himself

 

[p3 and the king]

I understand passions run high on here, because it's a cat possibly suffering.  But, we are only getting one side of the story.  Plus, a lot of the suggestions on here are illegal and childish.  It is best to talk to this Jason and explain to him your new connection and affection for Flea.  Don't insult his "parenting" because you will get nowhere.  He will most likely only be defensive and not willing to cooperate.  Offer him some money and if he says no then ask him how much he feels is fair.  If he still says no, then that's that.   Not much else you can do short of breaking the law and causing problems for yourself. 

Also, posters, the OP has not been back since posting the first post.  I think this is now irrelevant.