Need advice--is my cat just evil embodied? Or am I overreacting?

[Columbine]

It sounds like Wurp is majorly territorial. I wonder if Shortstack's presence in the den took him by surprise - especially if Wurp is used to having that room all to himself. This is certainly proving to be a tricky introduction, and I have to say that you're handling it all really well so far. The eating out of the same bowl is HUGE progress Don't minimise it. I think you're essentially learning that Wurp needs to progress in extra-baby steps right now. Being deaf, knowing his territory, and who to expect where and when, may well be even more important to Wurp than it is to the average cat.

Carry on with the joint feeds for now - they're clearly going really well :bigthumb: - but don't allow them to get into a situation where Shortstack is settled and Wurp enters. Always be sure that Wurp SEES Shortstack enter the room, and always be sure that Shortstack goes in AFTER Wurp. This should help retain Wurp's authority in his own eyes, and help him feel more secure and settled about Shortstack's presence.

Also, get a load of blankets, cardboard scratchers etc and let Shortstack use them for a few days to get them thoroughly soaked in his scent. Then, scatter them strategically about the house, making sure they're somewhere that Wurp won't be taken by surprise. Do one room at a time, and take it slow so that Wurp isn't overwhelmed. Hopefully, this will help Wurp adjust to sharing territory peacefully with Shortstack. He basically seems alike a cat who really struggles with changes in routine, and needs plenty of warning to get used to the idea.

Hang in there. This WILL work out. Warp just needs extra time to process everything :catguy:

 

[mservant]

First off I have to say, I think it amazing that you are managing to get them to chomp down tuna next to each other without any growling or anything going down.  

 

     Shortstack is a wise cat submitting to his senior and making sure Wurp knows it.  With any luck, Wurp will start to associate Shortstack being in his space with the tuna / treats rather than some young invader coming in to his home and disturbing his peace.   

My guess is that the limited time frame of the welcome is about continued establishment of Wurp's territory and giving poor young Shortstack the message that he is not welcome to stay in close proximity the rest of the time, or in what he considers his safe den room.  It is good that he stayed calm even for a short time after they finished eating and Wurp had retired to his den.  You did well spotting the changes in posture and vocalisations before things got serious.

I reckon if you continue to gradually introduce them with repeats of this shared time feeding with treats, plus the extra scent sharing Columbine suggests you will see things adjust.  They may never be best buddies but if they can manage to share some of your home and for at least some of the time this would be a major improvement on what you have now.   Keep up the good effort,  

   cat's need time to build up trust and set out their relationships together.

 

[hbunny]

Thank you both so much.  I am absolutely thrilled that I've gotten this far!  We've been trying since February 6th.  Wurp is extremely territorial...that's why I've decided if it takes years, so be it.  Shortstack is happy, Wurp is happy, even if it has to stay the way it is with the swapping of free house run.  Wurp seems to be a day-sleeper, while Shortstack goes to bed about 7 and is oddly active during the greater part of the day.  He's the strangest cat.  So one is out all day, the other all night.

I had not tried the scent thing--I had assumed since both of them rubbed all over the house they would pick up on things that way, but I'm going to start rubbing towels on each of them and placing in each other's spaces starting this evening.  They do both use the same communal litterbox with no problem that is in the laundry room (although they each have their own in "their" rooms), and they share the cardboard scratchers and the cat trees in the den and living room.  However, Wurp does have his own blankie and Shortstack does too...I may see what happens when I swap them.

I gave up on the Feliway diffuser though.  I had a problem with Wurp howling at it.  I'm not sure what he connected the pheromones with, but he would absolutely wail every time he would walk past one of them.  It was driving us insane in the middle of the night.  WEOOWWWRR??? Almost like a question.  Top of his lungs.  He sniffed it constantly and then howled.  When they ran out this time I just took them down, and he stopped doing that.  I think he is just absolutely a nut case sometimes.

 

[Columbine]

Well, not all cats are helped by Feliway...but I must say I've never heard of such a vocal reaction to it ::lol3: Wurp is obviously extra sensitive to scent - which makes absolute sense, when you think about it. Without his hearing, sight and scent will be so much more important for him to feel safe and secure. I guess a momma cat soothing pheromone was just too confusing for the poor guy!

It's very interesting that you mention that Wurp and Shortstack have different active and sleep times. This actually bodes very well for the future When you have two cats that aren't best buds living together, a common way for them to share the territory is to be awake at different times. It's an extension of respecting each other's space and boundaries. We had a pair of littermates who, whilst they got on fine (and would even wrestle and play together on occasion), felt happier dividing the house this way. Cali was a daytime cat, and Shadow was (and is) a nighttime cat. They'd do a 'shift change' every evening in the living room, where they'd come together for some mutual grooming and a quick game. Then, Cali would go off upstairs to bed, and Shadow would have the run of the house. The same pattern happens with Asha and Shadow now, except Asha will stay downstairs a little longer for playtime before coming up to bed. She's still working on trying to get Shad (who she hero worships) to wrestle with her though... :love:

The idea with introducing Shortstack's things into the main house is to try to get Wurp accustomed to his having more of a physical presence without the risk of confrontation. It's a case of ultra baby steps to help Wurp get his head around it all It may not work, but it's definitely worth a try

You're doing wonderfully with them as it is, and all credit to you for sticking with it and staying patient. That can be SO hard to do, but is definitely worth all the hard work in the end :high5:

 

[imjustacatmom]

Hello I have read the whole thread @hbunny

I have two cats that after 7 months are just now getting better. My girl was feral and adopted us and our boy was also a rescue...his story is a bit unclear as my father in law rescued him..and when my father in law rescued him he had no fur and his eyes were really infected...I think he was in a mill...anyways girl was a one person cat....boy was a one person cat and then when we had to take care of father-in-law we tried introducing them slowly...supervised...between doors...never feeding them together...until my father in law went home to be with the Lord...then we let them just be...so from the time we moved in with dad till he passed was 2months...I'm a pet parent that believes in discipline....I use a squirt bottle and time outs...and they are both doing just fine with the discipline...here's my point...they still have tiffs...as parents with regular children there are disputes and so it is with cats....now to be honest I'm wondering if your Wurp might need an anti anxiety med....simply because he is deaf and he may feel like he has to be super vigilant when Shortstack is around....I know you think your vet is well dumb...maybe try another vet even a cat behaviorist...now also what about the kitty who is pregnant did she have her babies? Ok..I hope to hear son more updates...and btw...there is something about your Wurp that I find absolutely adorable...I love his face [emoji]128008[/emoji]

 

[hbunny]

I never thought about him having a heightened sense of smell, but it does make a lot of sense!  Shortstack never paid the first bit of attention to the diffuser, but Wurp went insane over them.  He would sit and just sniff the entire diffuser and then walk around doing the howling thing, I wonder if he thought there was a hidden cat somewhere putting off the pheromones.  He does definitely use his sense of smell for a lot of things that we have noticed.  He knows immediately if I let Bettina in the house (my transient "neighborhood" cat that I foot all the vet bills for).  He can be asleep in the far end of the house--sound asleep--and I can let her in the kitchen to feed her and he comes running.  We've noticed he also knows when we get home, we were suspicious that he smelled us when we came in.

It's been a slow thing, his hearing loss.  It started about 2012, we don't really know a reason, the vet said his ears and everything look good and normal.  He said it could have been prior infections, injury, old age, who knows...we just go for regular checkups to make sure nothing else is going on.  The vet was concerned a bit at first and we had to go for frequent checkups to make sure there were no other processes/illnesses going on that the hearing loss was just a symptom of. 

I will say this--he has adapted well, maybe because it was a slow process.  For a long time he could still hear me if I yelled his name, but even that's gone now.  I still think he hears certain noises, maybe frequencies, because there was something on tv the other night that he snapped his head around and looked at the tv, it was a weird loud buzzing-beeping noise. 

He has taught me though that deaf cats STILL don't miss a trick!  He is in tune with everything we do and all goings-on in the house.  It just scares the crap out of him for anyone to walk up behind him, he will jump with all four feet coming off the ground.  That nose--he runs that nose like a vacuum cleaner.  He sniffs everything now, and he didn't used to do that before.  He patrols the house right before bed, and sniffs the back door at the door crack, then his two favorite window sills, he has to go sniff at them, and then he goes to check on Shortstack through the baby gates.  We say the Warden is doing his "bed check" at the prison gate when he goes to look in at Stack.  He also wants us in bed at HIS bedtime, and won't lay down and rest until both of us are in the bed.  It's like he goes out of his way to make sure everything is the way he wants it before he will go to sleep.  He didn't do all this before his hearing went.  I'll never fear, in the future, adopting a deaf cat.  They are just like any other cat, we just use our hands to communicate more than calling.  He's learned the "come here" wave very well!!

 

[mservant]

I think you are right when you talk about how the change with Wurp's hearing being gradual maybe helped him adjust.   Both my previous cats gradually lost their sight, one slowly due to high blood pressure and partial rather than complete, and the other gradually due to what was later discovered were tiny tumours all over her retinas and probably spread from her brain.  You would never have known either of them had loss of vision as they negotiated their home territory without any problem.  They called and vocalised a lot but then I just assumed that was old age, and as it was so loud with the one who survived the longest I periodically got the vet to check if her hearing had gone as well (it hadn't, she just developed a seriously loud voice 

  ).  Cats quickly acclimatise by using their remaining senses.  My girls felt their way around using sensations from their whiskers and paws, used scent, and in their case their ears.  The cat who had the brain tumours was incredibly fit and agile even at 17 and was racing about the place like a daemon and pounce attacking her sister among other regular pursuits!  I only found out she was blind when I took her to the vet with catastrophic neurological signs.  She was an amazing cat.   Wurp sounds a bit like her only not such a bully.  (She was a mean kitty to her sister).

 

[hbunny]

@imjustacatmom   Thank you!  I'm in love with his little furry face.  He's my baby.  Unfortunately, Tina did have her babies, but apparently either abandoned them or something killed them.  We tried several tricks to see if she would lead us to them, but she refused to leave the house.  She got spayed, and after a couple of tries to bring her inside to live, she is now an indoor/outdoor kitty.  She also stays indoors at a house down the road, she is sort of a "shared" cat between myself and an older lady who is next-to-next-door neighbor.

I really don't want to medicate Wurp--at least not yet--not as long as we are showing some sort of progress.  He is one of those cats that has odd reactions to anesthesia and some antibiotics, so I'm careful not to introduce medicine that we haven't tried before.  Where I live there aren't many vet options, however, since the majority are large-animal vets and really don't care about small animals (other than the expensive hunting dogs they see, and that's only because of their value)--by that I mean they won't go to any great extremes with them, and they treat them with about the same intelligence level as the cows and pigs they usually see.

And....if you even mention behaviorist around here even the vets themselves will laugh at you.  I actually said something about it to one vet tech, and she said "well, this ain't California or New York City!" 

I had to laugh, because honestly she is right.  I'm in bass-ackwards country.  But we get by

 

[imjustacatmom]

@hbunny

So our girl had also been pregnant before we met her...in fact I heard how someone saw her with a bunch of babies and then none...when she first started coming around our house I noticed 2 small kittens...that because I would leave food out for our landlady's cat...then if course I would hear them come and eat the food...I would also hear her growl at kittens when they would try to eat that food...so one night because I had never seen her only hear her she showed up looking through my screen...and it was there her snd I started a relationship...I never saw those kittens again...but because she and I started to build a relationship it was around the middle of August I new she got pregnant...I heard her and the other cat...I know eww but hey its life right...anyways the minute she got pregnant she was constantly around yes because I fed her but also cats when pregnant love affection...well thats what I read after she was letting me pet her and she would rub up on me...which is something she had never done...anyways my very long story now shortened...we prayed and prayed over her to keep her babies alive and to trust us enough to have them with and by us...anyways we ended up having to leave for China...and about a week before we left she disappeared for a few days...I was really distraught well because as you can imagine we had bonded (there's way more to story on that) anyways like the day before we left she came around starving and skinny...and so I just said honey we love you hope you are taking care of the babies we will be back in a couple if weeks...anyhoo we get back from China and she came out almost immediately with two of her babies...like look mom...I took care of them like you said...she was such a proud mommy showing more her babies...so I know with feral cats it can be hard...but we were so grateful she heard and listened to us (well me she was still very afraid if my hubby) like I said I have a very special bond with her...in fact she has become my ESA...so I can totally understand how Wurp is your little guy....sorry the story was so long but I felt I should share...I will try to find pictures of her two babies and what she looked like before we brought her indoors....but here is one of her now

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• imjustacatmom
• Jun 21, 2016

 

[hbunny]

Oh what a sweet baby face! I love your story! Wurp has been my buddy for a long time--we've been through a lot together and came through it all together, so...he's definitely family. I hate I can't bring Bettina-tina in forever, but she has no part of it. I thought getting her spayed would change that, but she still tore up blinds and the back door wanting out. She is fine for a few days, and a big plus--Wurp and Stack both like her. But then she goes bananas and won't settle down. In 2 days she comes back to do it all over again. I think she has 2 or 3 houses she goes between! No more babies for her though, thank goodness!

 

[hbunny]

Update time!!  This is how my weekend went with the boys.  Please excuse the pictures....we are getting ready for our carpet to be replaced and we have ripped it up to keep from being charged the removal/disposal fee--just did that part ourselves, that's why it is bare, ugly floor in the second picture.  I keep doing the face-to-face feedings, mainly when I feel up to it and neither one of them is in a particularly bad mood.  This was on the 4th of July. 

I let Wurp out of our bedroom with full view of Shortstack on the other side of the baby gate, so he wasn't surprised by his presence in any way, since he can't hear him coming up on him.  Wurp came out, touched noses with him (they TOUCHED NOSES!), then walked down the hall like "I'm done with you, you may go now".  He absolutely just walked towards the kitchen paying Shortstack no mind at all.  Shortstack, with his chubby little self, came bouncing along behind him.

I put two bowls of food down for them, and they both ate peacefully. They did the bowl swap again, they swapped bowls as if on cue, with no issue, both passed within inches of each other.

Wurp went into the den and got in his box (yes, he has a box that we dare not take away from him).  He sat and washed his paws and his face.  Shortstack went and laid on a rug near him and washed his paws.  They seemed very relaxed, just chilled.  I thought well, I'll keep an eye on them, and see what progresses.

That didn't take long.  I walked around the corner to the laundry room and heard the first yeoowwwrrr come out of Wurp.  I walked back in there and the 2nd picture (with the ugly floor haha) is what I saw.  Shortstack was terrified and huddled, and Wurp was doing his posturing and that godawful yowl-ey noise he makes.

What gives?  I just can't wrap my head around the fact that Wurp will act like everything is just fine, then go to doing this after they eat together.  What can I do?  My only bright spot to all this is that it seems to be taking longer periods every time I do this before Wurp goes into his psycho mode.  It's like he tolerates him a tiny bit longer each time.

At least when this is going on, I can just walk over and pick up Wurp and put him back in our bedroom with no problems.  Poor Shortstack though will go hide until he is certain that Wurp isn't going to come out of the woodwork after him.

Help, advice....please!  Every time I think "oh, progress!" it turns out this way again.

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• hbunny
• Jul 6, 2016

  

IMG_9867.JPG

• hbunny
• Jul 6, 2016

 

[Columbine]

I'm just.... :frusty: You're doing everything right as far as I can see, and are being so patient with them. I wish I had something else to suggest, but I'm as stumped as you are right now. All I can say is try to focus on the progress they're making (and how great that they finally touched noses like that?! ) and know that things WILL fall into place eventually.

The only thing I'd change, though, is to say that they shouldn't be left together unsupervised at the moment - even if only for a few seconds. It's crucial that you see the entire interaction if you're to stand a chance of identifying Wurp's triggers and danger points when it comes to Shortstack. If you can't be in the room with them, they mustn't be together.

So sorry I can't be of more help. Keep trying. Stay patient. They'll get there in the end :cross:

 

[hbunny]

Oh @Columbine  thank you.  I feel just the same....

   Wurp is truly a butt.  Nobody believes he can be that stubborn and such a meanie, because he fools everybody at the vet, my friends, family...but he is a turd!

He is just so territorial....either you obey him and worship him, or it's a fur flying mess

.  The bad thing is Shortstack is very submissive towards him and tries very hard to be his buddy and keeps getting shot down.  When one of them is in "their" room with the baby gates up, the other is lying outside the gate, one lying inside the gate.  They spend all their waking time almost next to each other with the gate between them, calm, collected, playing footsie through the gate!  Then Wurp has to act a fool.

You are right, I learned I can't turn my back.  Wurp does watch me--to see if I'm watching him.  We always say he is smarter than the average bear.....and he is.  He is truly an ass!  I feel so sorry for Stack!

But, like I said, we are going to make this work.  Even if it means them house-sharing forever. 

 

[mservant]

  Wurp the butt.  

    I bet Shortstack has a few names for him in cat language too.  

Their behaviour reminds me of several other households here on TCS, but while the ones I am thinking about are not yet homes full of 24/7 kitty love they have shown gradual improvement and the times where peace and shared space happen have increased.   I do agree that maintaining close supervision at this point is key, particularly if you want to try and pick up on what, if any, cues are setting Wurp off.   Of course it might simply be that he is being smart and mean and takes the opportunity to show Shortstack how big a boss he is the moment he knows you're not watching, but benefit of the doubt might pay off and spotting a little edging forward, reaching out of paw, or change in gaze from Shortstack might help you  work out what to try next.

From your description it sounds like they are choosing each other's company, and presumably not just to keep an eye on the enemy.  

     Lots of positive thoughts coming your way that you continue to see and feel positive developments between them.   

 

 

[imjustacatmom]

@hbunny

So with Duchess and Prince...I've picked up on the looks...like Prince will give the wrong look and Duchess will swat or vice versa...but like today Prince was on couch minding his own business sleeping and Duchess joined us...at first she was being loving but then outta nowhere she just chomped down hard on his foot...who really knows why thry do what they do...but I discipline. ..she got put in timeout and was told no in a very firm louder voice...and they've been together since September/November. ..I will say this...we had to leave town for the holiday and I was really anxious but we prayed over kitties and house...and we decided to trust God...we got in yesterday and there wasn't any fur on floors or in house (which is usually a tell tale sign there has been fighting) and they were playing with eachother...so here is what I think...cats are like little kids...they need supervision...they are gonna have squabbles especially in a multicat household...they need love and discipline just like children and they also need their own space...hope this helps

 

[imjustacatmom]

Also my husband reminded me of the attention factor...so when I first introduced them Duchess submitted...now when they were put together permanently Duchess slept with ne...Prince would try to bully her out if her spot I would not allow him to do so...but somehow Duchess acquiesced her spot to him...so his main attention is in bedroom and hers is her on couch...so maybe if your giving attention to one in their spot or vice versa it might be what also sets him off...it was Wurps home...anyhoo try that angle and see if there's a solution to come up with

 

[Anne]

I think you've done a great job so far. Well done!

At this point, I don't think that picture is that bad, actually. They need to sort out their hierarchy and there's not a lot you can or should be doing to intervene. 

I would just let them be for a while. Do not respond to any interactions between them that seem hostile to you. Unless the fur is flying (beyond a symbolic spat) keep out of it. I know, easier said than done but for the benefit of their future relationship you have to let them work it out. They may never become good friends, and that's perfectly ok. You just want them to co-exist peacefully and that means they will have to establish some form of pecking order. There's nothing you can do to help with that, except avoid interrupting. That means zero attention when these things happen, and most importantly, do not demonstrate any level of fear, stress or aggression on your part when it happens. Keep your distance and also don't approach them until you're sure they've cooled off, or all of that extra adrenaline could cause them to attack you.

 

[hbunny]

Anne Thanks so much. I feel like it may be time to just watch. I think Wurp is just really trying to put his foot down that he is boss, and after the past few days of observing, I may need to do what you said and let them do a bit of sorting it out. Wurp being deaf really throws a curve in things, but he manages everything really well. I can tell he is no longer murderous towards Shortstack, although he really truly was the first month. He meant harm, where now I think it's more just showing he is boss. It just kills me they spend their time together just fine with the gate between them. I will update you all the first of the week!

 

[terestrife]

im sure there are people here a lot more knowledgeable, and have probably been through more than i can even imagine.

but i just wanted to put my two cents.

 i brought in an outdoor cat last year, and for months she DETESTED my brothers dog. i had to keep her locked in my moms room, and only let her out once the dog would go out to pee (he is mostly indoors). She got along well with my resident cat, Kitty. But Tommy remembered Elsa as the cat he would chase around outside. He did not forget this, and would look at her like a pork chop. He loves my other cat, Kitty, but hates other cats, and has even attacked some. 

after a couple of months, i started doing supervised visits, she would hiss, and he would howl and act crazy. the only thing that worked was becoming the louder voice between them. whenever they wanted to throw a hissy fit i used my latina gifted voice and scream until they stop. whoever gave the attitude first was yelled at, and they learned the behavior was not going to be accepted. it took awhile until i trusted them alone. months before the hissing completely went away.  but they now get along, elsa even pets tommy, and he just leaves her be.

sometimes you have to let the pets work things out (while being supervised). i know my advice wont work for everyone, but i truly think, things would have taken longer had i continued to baby them both and hope they would eventually get along. 

 

[Anne]

@Anne Thanks so much. I feel like it may be time to just watch. I think Wurp is just really trying to put his foot down that he is boss, and after the past few days of observing, I may need to do what you said and let them do a bit of sorting it out. Wurp being deaf really throws a curve in things, but he manages everything really well. I can tell he is no longer murderous towards Shortstack, although he really truly was the first month. He meant harm, where now I think it's more just showing he is boss. It just kills me they spend their time together just fine with the gate between them. I will update you all the first of the week!

Excellent! Just remember to avoid staring at them when you watch. That alone can add to the stress. Your best bet is to avoid them altogether when they get into these situations, possibly even going to another room. Cats can really pick up on our own stress levels and the last thing you want is to add stress when they are busy sorting things out. 

Good luck!