Nature's Variety Raw Instinct Bites

[jclark]

Not yet. But I will! Especially if it is cost saving. The raw bites were my intro and thaw out in about 7 minutes on my counter. I think I have to thaw the patty out longer. Also I went the raw bite route cuz I like to mix duck and chicken or lamb and rabbit etc. to help them get used to a new protein source.


On another note, I feel sometimes that I jinx myself. Lately Rocky hasn't been too into the lamb (!). But when I made a steak the other day for dinner, he loved the nibbles I gave him. Going to try the beef even though it can be an iffy protein source for some cats.


(Wow have things gotten complicated. I remember my younger days and first cat when friskies canned 25 cents on sale and 9 lives kibble sufficed!)

I would rotate raw on a per pkg basis. And yes, the patties would need to thaw out over ~24 hrs.

 

[jessica smith]

So an update with bad news.

Initially, price aside, I've been VERY happy with Nature's Variety raw food.   Shiny coats, tiny lighter color almost odorless poo, lots of energy, and the cats absolutely love it.   IMO it seemed like the perfect diet.

Except my male cat developed a UTI with blood in urine yesterday.   I brought him to the vet and they said there is a considerable amount of blood in his urine, and he has lots of small crystals.   They believe the crystals are causing the irritation, and they asked if I am feeding a high protein diet.  

I explained that I'm feeding a very high protein diet with the commercial raw instinct bites, supplemented with a little bit of taurine (if anything a bit on the low side).   They have two water fountains and I always sprinkle a bit of water on their raw bites.  They immediately said the food is almost certainly the cause, and a dietary supplement is needed.  I told them I'm sad to hear this, because one of the cats tends to have soft stools on many other dry foods we had slowly transitioned to in the past.  Their recommendation accordingly is Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Hydrolyzed Protein Adult HP along with Amitriptyline 10mg once daily.  

I reviewed the ingredients and was not impressed: 

Brewers rice, hydroyzed soy protein, chicken fat, powedered cellulose, vegetable oil, fish oil. .... Crude protein is only 23%, and it contains no meat... and its dry, as they don't make a wet formula.   Thoughts on this?  They convinced me to at least give it a try, and if the results are poor, don't buy another bag.   I'm generally open minded, that's why I tried raw, but I barely understood what a hydrolyzed protein is in the first place, and this almost seems like a vegetarian diet.   On the other hand, facts are facts, one of my cats got crystals eating what I was feeding him with always clean litterboxes, low stress environment, with water added to food and water always available.  

 

[synpi]

Wonder why the vet is jumping on the food as the reason....
According to petmd.com, there could be many reasons for this disorder:
http://m.petmd.com/cat/conditions/urinary/feline_idiopathic_lower_urinary_tract_disease

 

[peaches08]

What kind of crystals were they?

 

[jessica smith]

I assume struvite, but am still waiting to hear back on my email.   I gave in and just opened up the bag for this vegetarian weird "rice" food for the time being, figuring it probably won't kill the kitties to try it, and mixed in 25% with their raw bites to graduate to 100% within the week.   I'm going to give the 7.5 lb bag a chance and report back if there is noticeable issues with weight gain, eyes, coat, smelly poo, etc. or if it actually holds up similar to the results gotten on their premium raw. I really wish even if they had to use a special diet that it could have at least been a wet food one so I can be assured they are getting enough moisture... everything you read after all for UTIs says thats number one priority, and here I am feeding dry food.  If/when it fails, then I might simply look into a different brand of commercial raw, perhaps one with less bone if perhaps that's the issue, or an entirely different non-diet related cause.

 

[peaches08]

I'm not an expert on crystals, but my understanding is that struvite crystals develop in more alkaline urine.  Meat is acidifying, so it should help to prevent these crystals.  However, some kitties are more prone to crystals (just like humans) and need l-methionine to lower the pH and prevent struvite crystals from forming.  Too acidic of urine can cause oxalate crystals I believe.  In any case, I don't see how the food that the vet recommended could help lower the urine pH.

 

[Kat0121]

I have a bag of NVI Raw Bites in my freezer that has a picture of a dog AND a cat on it. it says it's for both. 

  I bought it at Petco

The cats wouldn't touch it. I give it to the dog in place of other treats. She loves it.

 

[LTS3]

The bag for the old NV frozen raw medallions and patties did have a small outline of a dog and cat on the bottom right corner and it does say the food is for cats and dogs:

INraw_med_orgchick.png

• LTS3
• Sep 3, 2014

You might still  be able to find the old NV formulas in pet stores. Most pet stores have the medallions and patties in the new formula which is for dogs only.

 

[Kat0121]

Yup. They are bites. I just got pulled the bag out of the freezer:

nvibites.jpg

• Kat0121
• Sep 3, 2014

 

[jessica smith]

Check your "best by" date, all the cat+dog stuff is the old variety, that supposedly went out of production quite a while ago, meaning that's old stock.   

My Petco had bags of the stuff as well, then I flipped to the back... oops, expired by over a year!!!  I asked the manager to pull it from the shelves, as a few months past best-by I don't think is a concern, but a year+ is unacceptable safety wise IMO.

 

[Kat0121]

I just looked at the bag. It says 2/25/15

 

[LTS3]

Looks like you have one of the older bags of Raw Bites. I think when it first came out it was for both cats and dogs. NV has since changed the Raw Bites to one specific formula for cats and one specific formula for dogs. The bag you have is ok to feed.

Not all cats will eat raw food. Most cats simply don't know what raw food is because they are so used to eating commercial dry and canned food. Freeze dried raw is sometimes more acceptable to cats since it's dry and crunchy like kibble, though ideally the food should be re-hydrated in water first unless you are giving it as a treat.

 

[jessica smith]

To get mine to start, I just mixed it 50/50 with their old food, as they weren't sure what it was.  I do have to let it thaw 12 mins though, or its just too cold to bite down on I think.   Sprinkling a bit of warm water speeds that up though.  Once used to it, they'll inhale it like nobodies business, at least the rabbit formula probably because of all the pork fat.

 

[ralphscats]

I just found this thread and wondered if the were any updates for anyone feeding the dog bites. I have eight cats, and need to cut costs. I've tried the cat medallions, but they won't eat them. I've tried to explain to my furkids that they are the same as their bites, but they still won't eat them. I would love to buy the dog bites and add taurine if it's nutritionally safe for them.

 

[sophie1]

It could be that the medallions were freezer-burned, which is a common problem with small raw frozen items.  Alternatively, it could simply be that the cats are used to the size of the bites and didn't know what to do with the medallions.  Did you try breaking them up?

As far as feeding the dog version...I buy the 5 lb chicken chubs and break them up into 8 10-oz pieces, i.e. one day's worth of food for my two big cats, and refreeze in plastic baggies.  I contacted Nature Variety about a a year ago to ask about the difference between the cat and dog food versions, and they confirmed that the recipe is identical except that taurine is added to the cat version.  They wouldn't tell me how much.  Since I feed the NV food in rotation with homemade raw, I simply add extra taurine to the other food to compensate.  Using Lisa PIerson's recipe on catinfo.org as a guide, I aim to add about 500mg taurine per day's worth of the NV.  Of note, I know a breeder who feeds the chicken chubs exclusively and instead of supplementing taurine, she feeds daily freeze dried heart/liver treats.  I don't think this would pass muster as far as AAFCO minimums, but she's been doing that for over 3 years now and all cats (including her own & the breeding parents) are healthy.

The cost savings makes this well worth it:  the chub costs less than half the price of equivalent bites or medallions, and as a bonus, it's always super fresh.  I get it from a local pet store that special orders it on request.

Keep in mind that feeding a variety of proteins is important (despite breeder story above), so you want to develop a mix of sources.  The raw food companies individually don't have enough protein options for cats, IMHO.  It's a good idea to mix them up anyway, because of the constant danger of a product being changed or pulled off the market.

 

[LTS3]

I just found this thread and wondered if the were any updates for anyone feeding the dog bites. I have eight cats, and need to cut costs. I've tried the cat medallions, but they won't eat them. I've tried to explain to my furkids that they are the same as their bites, but they still won't eat them. I would love to buy the dog bites and add taurine if it's nutritionally safe for them.

The Raw Bites for dogs do not contain taurine. I've heard of people adding in a powdered taurine supplement to raw food in general but I don't know much about how to do that.

Have you tried the Raw Bites for cats? Or do your cats not like those either?

Have you tried other brands of raw? Some are similar to the NV Raw Bites. Northwest Naturals is one.

 

[ralphscats]

Thank you both.
I've tried the cutting the medallions in four or five different pieces. I've also tried it on several occasions with different bags, and it wouldn't get eaten.

I wasn't aware that they still made chubs. I don't know if it would be perceived well since they won't eat the medallions. I will probably have n pet store special order it at least once and see how it goes. It would definitely be worth trying. Feeding eight cats is quite expensive and anything so can do to cut the cut but still fee raw, I'll try if it's healthy.
I rotate with Bravo beef, rabbit, and Venision. The problem is I have two seniors who don't want to eat the Bravo. I figure if they're eating, I don't want to rock the boat too much. The do occasionally get some canned to try to break things up.
I've recently started feeding some Vital Essentials freeze dried chicken hearts and Bravo freeze dried turkey hearts. Not everyone will eat them, so I will need to add taurine if I try the dog version. I think mixing it in with the chub would be easiest, but I'll have to see if they eat it.

 

[ralphscats]

It could be that the medallions were freezer-burned, which is a common problem with small raw frozen items.  Alternatively, it could simply be that the cats are used to the size of the bites and didn't know what to do with the medallions.  Did you try breaking them up?

As far as feeding the dog version...I buy the 5 lb chicken chubs and break them up into 8 10-oz pieces, i.e. one day's worth of food for my two big cats, and refreeze in plastic baggies.  I contacted Nature Variety about a a year ago to ask about the difference between the cat and dog food versions, and they confirmed that the recipe is identical except that taurine is added to the cat version.  They wouldn't tell me how much.  Since I feed the NV food in rotation with homemade raw, I simply add extra taurine to the other food to compensate.  Using Lisa PIerson's recipe on catinfo.org as a guide, I aim to add about 500mg taurine per day's worth of the NV.  Of note, I know a breeder who feeds the chicken chubs exclusively and instead of supplementing taurine, she feeds daily freeze dried heart/liver treats.  I don't think this would pass muster as far as AAFCO minimums, but she's been doing that for over 3 years now and all cats (including her own & the breeding parents) are healthy.

The cost savings makes this well worth it:  the chub costs less than half the price of equivalent bites or medallions, and as a bonus, it's always super fresh.  I get it from a local pet store that special orders it on request.

Keep in mind that feeding a variety of proteins is important (despite breeder story above), so you want to develop a mix of sources.  The raw food companies individually don't have enough protein options for cats, IMHO.  It's a good idea to mix them up anyway, because of the constant danger of a product being changed or pulled off the market.

I just called my pet store. Wow, the chub is so much cheaper!! I've ordered a chicken one and it should be here Thursday. I hope they like it!! Thanks for the tip!!

 

[LTS3]

I've tried the cutting the medallions in four or five different pieces. I've also tried it on several occasions with different bags, and it wouldn't get eaten.
 

Sometimes you need to really smush the medallion up with a spoon into more of a pate canned food texture before a picky cat will eat it

 

[ralphscats]

Sometimes you need to really smush the medallion up with a spoon into more of a pate canned food texture before a picky cat will eat it :rolleyes2

Sometimes you need to really smush the medallion up with a spoon into more of a pate canned food texture before a picky cat will eat it :rolleyes2

I'll try smooshing some more. They eat the bites with the freeze dried crumbled up on it. I've tried it with the medallions and it was still a no-go. I'm open to any suggestions to try though!