Marlon (loooong post)

[nicolegray]

I think I've posted here a few times in the past about Marlon. We've had him for close to three years and estimate that he's between 3.5 and 4. He's neutered.

We're nearly at the end of our ropes with Marlon. On the one hand, when he's in a mellow mood he is incredibly sweet. He likes to be near us, he enjoys being held, he'll give kisses, etc. You can put him on your lap and he'll just melt into you, with this incredible quiet purr. You need to be very aware of his body language, but once you are he's a sweetheart.

Unfortunately, he also has his Mr. Hyde side. He is constantly harassing our other cat, Audrey, who's a few months older. We're not sure if it's a dominance thing, or just overly-aggressive play. He chases her, jumps on her, bites and claws, though he doesn't draw blood. Audrey responds by growling, hissing, and trying to avoid him. Marlon doesn't take the hint. He keeps after her. We're not big believers in negative reinforcement, so we've tried ignoring the behavior (he seems to do it for attention) and putting him in "time outs" in the other room. Neither works.

We feel really guilty that Audrey gets harassed so often. For a while we thought that maybe she was fond of Marlon, but the two times he's spent the night at the vet she's so upset when he comes back that she refuses to eat (unheard of for her). Even when he's being mellow she won't sit near him or let him groom her.

We're also worried about how Marlon will be with children. He literally tried to attack my cousin's baby when they visited. We had to buy my cousin's husband new pants because his were shredded, and we were lucky that he wasn't injured. Since then we've been trying to desensitize Marlon by playing videos of crying babies and rewarding calm behavior, but there's been no change.

My mother has offered to adopt Marlon when we have kids, but unfortunately he also terrorizes her dog, who is very quiet and cat-polite. We've taken care of him for several weeks in the past, and Marlon will go out of his way to chase and swat at the dog.

We have had success correcting some of Marlon's bad behaviors. We've trained him (without negative reinforcement) not to bite, which he was bad about when we first got him. He'll let us trim his nails or put soft paws on him with a bit of patience, which would have been impossible before.

Unfortunately, the really problematic behaviors aren't getting better. I think he could be a good only cat, but I've worked with cat rescues in the past and I know that the chances of finding him a good home are virtually nil with the problem behaviors that I've described here. I also believe that when you adopt an animal you are responsible for them for life. Marlon isn't a "bad" cat. He's good with adults who respect his space, and most of his nasty behaviors seem to be born of insecurity and fear (I suspect he was abused before we got him). Unfortunately, a lot of his behaviors are intolerable and not improving and we're just really out of ideas.

We're ordering Feliway right now, but I have to say that I don't have much faith. I'm not sure what I'm asking for here. Commiseration? Advice? Your own stories of difficult cats? I think largely I needed to vent. I just got woken up for the forth or fifth morning in a row by Audrey screeching as Marlon chased her around and jumped on her and I think I'm sleep deprived on top of everything else.

 

[otto]

What a difficult situation. The Feliway plug in diffusers may help, have faith. Make sure you have enough, each diffuser can cover about 400 sq feet.

Have you discussed this with Marlon's vet? I think medication should be a last resort in these issues, but it might be something to keep in mind, if the problem gets worse.

Do you have vertical space for the cats?

Can you keep Audrey and Marlon separated at night, so your sleep is not disturbed?

Would it be possible for you to build an outdoor cat safe enclosure, to give Marlon outside time? Perhaps he is one of those cats who needs a wider territory.

 

[nicolegray]

Thanks so much for your response. It's much appreciated.

We hadn't thought of medication, so it's a relief to realize that we have that as a last resort. Our vet knows he's difficult (Marlon gets a mild sedative for a lot of basic care after he shredded the poor vet tech), but we haven't explicitly discussed solutions, which is an oversight on our part. We just started with a new vet who seems more responsive, so we'll bring it up next time we're in.

We have two 15x15 rooms separated by a hallway, as well as a small 10x6 room. Most of the fights occur in the two big rooms. Would you suggest one diffuser for each big room?

We have one huge cat tree that Marlon really enjoys, and a number of smaller scratching posts and stuff. Ironically, he's way better about destructive behaviors (scratching and litter use) than our other cat.

To separate the cats at night we unfortunately need to lock Marlon in the small room, which we always feel guilty about. Maybe we shouldn't, though. I know he likes to be near us, but perhaps it's comforting for him to have his own space.

For the last point, we're in NYC, so unfortunately that's not an option. It sounds like a really neat idea, though.

Thank you again!

 

[icklemiss21]

I sometimes separate mine at night if they are being bad, I always feel bad about it but they don't seem to mind, they might spend 5 mins crying about it and then carry on whatever they were doing before.

Vertical space (shelves etc) do help, I find Quincy can be really aggressive about the scratching posts / cat trees and is more likely to pounce on one of the other cats if they touch 'his stuff'

Playing with Quincy a lot helped curb his behaviour too, we give him a good play session several times a day, and if he starts stalking the other cats or pouncing on them, I shine his laser light and he immediately stops and comes to play - often he is just bored. He is a lot more energetic than the other cats.

 

[denali]

Please try the feliway diffusers - you can get refills in bulk for cheap http://www.entirelypets.com/6pakfedire48.html (you can search the web to find them even cheaper). Depends on how big your house is but I would definately use 2-3 throughout the home.

Also, I wanted to recommend you look into purchasing flower essences made specifically for this situation. These are much more natural then the medications the vet will give you.

My male cat acts like this towards my female cat. When I see him getting into the position to attack or following her around I divert his attention to me before he attacks her. I do this by calling his name and getting him to come to me. I am the dominant one - not him...I will start playing with him and diverting his attention elsewhere.

Good luck!

 

[pat traufield]

Are you able to conult with a certified applied animal behaviorist? There are several in your area. Marlon sounds like a complex fellow.

 

[bunnelina]

Originally Posted by Pat Traufield

Are you able to conult with a certified applied animal behaviorist? There are several in your area. Marlon sounds like a complex fellow.

Marlon sounds like he watches too many Marlon Brando movies. Maybe you could try renaming him something like Teddy Bear or Sweetie-Pie? Cats will sometimes take on attributes of their names, in my experience....

Now, to be serious: Since you're in NYC, maybe you can schedule a visit with the cat expert Anitra Frazier, who was one of the first people to develop a holistic approach to cat nutrition and care. She wrote "The New Natural Cat," which is in its third (I think) updated edition now. I've been relying on the various editions for decades for their excellent health, nursing, and behavioral advice. (We don't have holistic vets in Boston or I'd be interested in trying that, too.) I've found that she has the ability to see things from a cat's perspective, which can make a huge difference in figuring out how to deal with problem behavior and illnesses.

Here's a link to her book website. It says she does phone consults, but since you are local, you and Marlon might be able to have a visit with her. She has a house-call service called Anitra's Natural Cat in NYC. If she can't help you, I'll bet she'll be able to guide you to someone who can.

Good luck!

 

[nicolegray]

Hi all! Thanks so much for all the great advice.

I've ordered the Feliway diffusers and they should arrive in the next few days. We'll start off trying those for a month and see if they help. Definitely keeping my fingers crossed.

We locked Marlon in the small back room last night and I slept like a log. It was very needed.

He's fine today, though he was a littler needier than normal for the first few hours after we woke up. I was amazed that Audrey let us sleep so long without demanding food, until I woke up and realized that my husband had accidentally left the lid off the dry food last night. Whoops.

Denali, are you talking about something like St. John's Wort?

If the behavior problems continue despite the Feliway, I think we will look into a consult with a behavioral specialist. Do any of you have any idea how much something like that might cost? Also, any actual experiences with a behavioral specialist? Did it help?

I also saw a book on Amazon called Cat vs Cat (can't remember the author right now), which I may get. Honestly, though, I think a lot of our problems really are caused by some sort of underlying anxiety that Marlon has. The shelter where we got him said that he suffered from anxious aggression, and unfortunately it seems like when Audrey gets pissy with him when he oversteps her boundaries it triggers some sort of anxiety, which just increases his harassing behavior.

Right now we're also trying the suggestion that some of you made to redirect his attention when he gets worked up. Instead of playing with him, though, we're picking him up and giving him a quick cuddle until he mellows out. We need to be careful, because if we approach Marlon when he's worked up he immediately reacts defensively. It's fairly sad to see, actually.

Thanks again for all your replies! I'll report in with any new developments.

 

[denali]

Originally Posted by NicoleGray

I've ordered the Feliway diffusers and they should arrive in the next few days. We'll start off trying those for a month and see if they help.

It sometimes does take up to 4-6 weeks to see a difference. I hope yo see something sooner though

Denali, are you talking about something like St. John's Wort?

Here are a few sites you could check out. These eesences are very easy to administer. If in question which combo or single essence would be best for your kitty you can call the company and they may even make up a combo for your kitties situation

http://www.abfeusa.com/index.html

http://www.spiritessence.com/

http://flowervr.com/

http://www.bachflower.com/Pets.htm

http://www.anaflora.com/essences/index.html

If the behavior problems continue despite the Feliway, I think we will look into a consult with a behavioral specialist.

Great!!!

Honestly, though, I think a lot of our problems really are caused by some sort of underlying anxiety that Marlon has. The shelter where we got him said that he suffered from anxious aggression,

He may have had a really terrible start to his life (abuse, neglect, etc.) and he may need someone to help him learn the proper behaviour. And it is great that you have taken him in and really want to help him overcome this behaviour

 

[nicolegray]

We've been using the Feliway diffusers now for about a week, and I think they are helping! Marlon still starts crap with Audrey a few times a day, but it's usually when he's hungry. The big difference is that he doesn't escalate the way he used to. It used to be that he would do something that bothered Audrey, she'd hiss and swat at him, and instead of backing off he'd start getting freaked out and keep after her. He's more likely to just leave her alone now when she's pissy.

He's still a complete pain when he's hungry, but we've totally eliminated his dry food snacks, which means that he's better about actually eating his wet food meals. Also, I'm home during the day sometimes, since I'm a grad student, so I've moved his second meal up from 5pm to 3pm, which has helped.

The other thing we've been doing is trying to calm Marlon down when he starts getting anxious by cuddling him instead of giving him time outs. He seems to enjoy being held like a football with an arm under his stomach and chest so that he's still parallel to the ground.

Now the only real problem is that he still wakes us up every morning! He gets hungry at around 6:30am and then chases Audrey until my husband or I gets out of bed. We do lock him in the back room in these instances. No way are we rewarding that behavior.

So all in all lots of improvement, with a few remaining issues. Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions!

 

[ldg]

to you for working through this with him.

Quick question - is there a reason they can't free feed? I wonder if that would help ease any of the tension??????????????

 

[nicolegray]

We'd love to free feed, but Audrey has no ability to self-limit. She will just eat and eat and eat. We can't even feed them in the same room because she'll inhale her portion and then go after Marlon's food. It's the one time when she's not intimidated by him.

 

[ldg]

Then personally, I'd try the Feliway, Bach's Rescue Remedy in the water and dabbed on Audrey (base of tail and under her chin) to help her de-stress from the situation - and I'd get into a routine of putting Marlon "to bed" each night in his own room.

 

[nicolegray]

Is it alright if his room is only around 6x10 feet? We only have two doors that close in our apartment, and if we just lock him out of the bedroom he bangs on the door all night.

 

[ldg]

I don't see why that wouldn't be OK - certainly MUCH larger than a cage in a shelter! Does it have "stuff" in it - so it's got different elevations and different places to sleep/hang out? I'd also put a really sweaty t-shirt in there and leave it in there the first few weeks.

...and since he's in his own room.... does he self-limit when eating? Maybe leave kibble out for him to nibble on - then he won't be so nuts in the morning either! If you're able to do that, he may actually come to WANT to "go to bed."

(

) and of course that's plenty of room for him to have a litter box and water....

 

[nicolegray]

That's actually the room with the cat tree, which he loves. I'd rather not get him started on the dry food again, since he refuses his wet when he thinks there are other options, but if we give him a few extra spoonfuls of wet I'm guessing he would eat it quickly enough to avoid it going bad.

He is an absolute nut on the mornings after a night on his own, I guess from all the pent up energy, but I think you're right that it might be best for all involved.

Thanks so much for all your advice!