Lets discuss wet and dry foods

[darlili]

Hmm - I scoop at least twice a day, feed wet twice a day, worked with a male adoptee with litter box issues, have a pet fountain (don't have new shoes, but they have their new 360), have a surplus of bowls, which are washed in the dishwasher daily, make sure my cats get to the vet for check-ups, shots, blood work, dental and whatever else the vet deems good, read my monthly copies of the Cornell and Tufts cats newsletters (which, BTW, haven't exactly said raw in the only way to go) but don't choose to do raw, partially due to the time I'm away from home - so I'm lazy and shouldn't have adopted? I'm so angry right now about that phrasing, I honestly wish I could slap someone.

I've not yet seen any clinical studies that show that raw food is definitively better than other diets - and in all honesty, am not sure that the risk of salmonella, etc., is as low as some people would have, let alone being able to assure that the quality of uncooked meat I would be feeding would definitely be free of even worse pathogens. And, yes, I have Whole Foods near me - so it's not like I don't have high-quality grocers available.

I have read that if you're going to do raw, you must be totally devoted to doing raw - as Dusty Rainbolt said, quoting Yoda, there's no try, only do. Yay for those who are do-ing - but shame on those who think that people following other diets are 'bad' parents who shouldn't have adopted. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that's exactly how I feel. Some of the raw food true believers probably turn off more people from researching that diet, than entice people into thinking it's an option. And, IMO, it's not an option, for me, til we get a heck of a lot more research done on it.

I'm looking forward to the results of the Winn study, and wish there was more clinical work in the area. I'm not sure I'm impressed with the 'cats in the wild' theory - most ferals don't live 17-20 years, yet we've seen the rise in longevity in cats, along with the related availability of commercial foods. Connected - hmm, you think?

 

[catattack1985]

Originally Posted by darlili

Hmm - I scoop at least twice a day, feed wet twice a day, worked with a male adoptee with litter box issues, have a pet fountain (don't have new shoes, but they have their new 360), have a surplus of bowls, which are washed in the dishwasher daily, make sure my cats get to the vet for check-ups, shots, blood work, dental and whatever else the vet deems good, read my monthly copies of the Cornell and Tufts cats newsletters (which, BTW, haven't exactly said raw in the only way to go) but don't choose to do raw, partially due to the time I'm away from home - so I'm lazy and shouldn't have adopted? I'm so angry right now about that phrasing, I honestly wish I could slap someone.

I never called ANYONE lazy.

But it DOES ultimately come down to time management & commitment, and of course, personal choice.

Not everyone CHOOSES to feed raw - for many reasons.

 

[darlili]

If your lifestyle is such that you don't scoop litter every day, or don't wash bowls every day, or can't make the time or find the energy to make and freeze balanced raw meals -- then feeding raw isn't for you

Sorry, I rather take that as saying those who don't choose to feed raw are also those who don't wash bowls every day, or don't scoop every day - i.e., basically too lazy to feed raw and not willing to inconvenience themselves for the sake of their pet. If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry to have read it that way - but I think those are rather poor examples to use. If someone wanted to say that after the initial hours of study and vet consultation, an experienced raw feeder can process and freeze meals in X amount of hours, that might be useful to many interested in the idea - even those of us who work long hours and have families other than our kitties - but making it sound like we're the same ones who can't scoop twice a day, well, doesn't make me want to look further into the process.

BTW, do you have a separate freezer, or do you put the meals into freezer bags, or what? I was thinking of people who just have a standard refrigerator without access to a stand-alone freezer. And how did your consultations with your vet go? Did you look for a holistic one, or work with a 'regular' vet?

I would agree that many people are leery of feeding raw due to questions of effectiveness (going back to the idea that there haven't been any clinical studies done to date), and/or because it's truly a diet that needs even more research, care in food prep, and consultation with vets than other diets. But, I don't think it's a question of people caring more, or less, for their pets. Heck, standing at Petsmart reading all the labels takes hours and hours....

 

[furryfriends50]

I feed 1/2 raw and 1/2 wet, with a few pieces of dry each day. If I had the time I would switch to all RAW but i just don't. For me, preparing enough RAW for a month is a 6 hour deal. Try make RAW for 26 cats, and you'd get what i mean

I would choose wet over dry any day though. Everyone i feed will eat wet food very happily. Only one of them is a complete kibble adict.

I would just say go as natural as possible. Dry food is the least natural food. Then wet is natural, with raw being completly natural.

 

[catattack1985]

darlili -- My phrase you quoted is saying more about raw feeders than it is about those who choose not to feed raw, for whatever reason. Because I feed raw, and know the risks associated with raw (although some would argue they are no greater than handling any other food, commercial or not, I personally feel the risks for food borne illness for humans and pets is higher feeding raw than not)... I feel this requires me to be more attentive to my cat. I feel there are certain things you could do if you fed something other than raw, that I feel you just really shouldn't do if you feed raw. The risk of illness just becomes too high for my comfort. For example, I can't let food sit out in bowls all day, and I can't afford not to clean them every time before and after every meal to prevent the spread of bacteria. I don't like to be relaxed about scooping litter - I rid of it as soon as I see it in there. I am really careful to clean everything and wash my hands after touching everything.

I know many other cat owners who aren't as attentive or obsessive as I am. I'm not saying anything about anyone specifically, but I know of cat owners who clean the bowls once a week, clean the litterbox once a month, and think this is acceptable. And, I don't know, it might be, for them. But it's not for me, and I really do think feeding raw requires more attentiveness than this. That is why I reference those things in relation to raw feeding. To me, it's more than just changing what your cat eats. It's a lifestyle of sorts.

Originally Posted by darlili

Sorry, I rather take that as saying those who don't choose to feed raw are also those who don't wash bowls every day, or don't scoop every day - i.e., basically too lazy to feed raw and not willing to inconvenience themselves for the sake of their pet. If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry to have read it that way - but I think those are rather poor examples to use. If someone wanted to say that after the initial hours of study and vet consultation, an experienced raw feeder can process and freeze meals in X amount of hours, that might be useful to many interested in the idea - even those of us who work long hours and have families other than our kitties - but making it sound like we're the same ones who can't scoop twice a day, well, doesn't make me want to look further into the process.

BTW, do you have a separate freezer, or do you put the meals into freezer bags, or what? I was thinking of people who just have a standard refrigerator without access to a stand-alone freezer. And how did your consultations with your vet go? Did you look for a holistic one, or work with a 'regular' vet?

I would agree that many people are leery of feeding raw due to questions of effectiveness (going back to the idea that there haven't been any clinical studies done to date), and/or because it's truly a diet that needs even more research, care in food prep, and consultation with vets than other diets. But, I don't think it's a question of people caring more, or less, for their pets. Heck, standing at Petsmart reading all the labels takes hours and hours....

 

[tdonline]

I feed about 5 oz of wet and between 1/8 - 1/4 cup of kibble for each cat. I also add 4 TB of water to the wet food. I've noticed since doing this diet, my cats no longer drink water. Is this okay? Are they getting enough water from their wet food? They go to the litter box and leave 4-6 clumps daily between the two of them. So it doesn't seem like they are dehydrated.

I still feed dry because I do some travel and the cats only get fed wet once a day by the sitter. I think it's better to give them a bit of dry daily so my travel days are relatively "routine".

Last year, prior to owning cats, I was out of the home for about 7-8 weeks total. I've cut back this year but I anticipate being away for at least 5 weeks.

 

[darlili]

They're probably getting enough water, but, as with any diet, all the authorities will say make sure plenty of clean water is available. Have you been able to do the pinch test and gotten successful results?

I like the idea of keeping a routine to their days, to help when the routine is broken in other areas.

 

[darlili]

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

I feed 1/2 raw and 1/2 wet, with a few pieces of dry each day. If I had the time I would switch to all RAW but i just don't. For me, preparing enough RAW for a month is a 6 hour deal. Try make RAW for 26 cats, and you'd get what i mean

I would choose wet over dry any day though. Everyone i feed will eat wet food very happily. Only one of them is a complete kibble adict.

I would just say go as natural as possible. Dry food is the least natural food. Then wet is natural, with raw being completly natural.

I was just reading an essay by a holistic vet - there's one fallacy about 'natural' always being the best in all cases. Dr. Jean Hofve, DVM, (current president of the Rocky Mountain Holistic Vet Medical Association) has said that people equate natural with safe - "but that's not always true - after all, arsenic is natural. So is tobacco. You have to do your research".

I think this is as true of homemade raw diets as of treating a pet, or human, with homeopathy. That's one reason I'm looking forward to the results of the Winn Foundation study - there's been so little clinical work done regarding raw diets, whether commercial or homemade, that I don't think anyone really knows, definitively, which diet is best in all circumstances.

And, given that many cats are reaching very long lives these days (probably based in part on commercial food availability at all price points), I suspect there's going to be a huge place for very specific diets, such as we see with the prescription diets available now - I bet that will be a growing segment of the market. Say what you will about large companies - they do have the resources to conduct studies and have certified feline nutritionists on staff. I think it's unwise to write off all their results - but I do think it's a good idea to see more clinical research conducted in all areas, whether commercially available foods or what diets could be safely prepared at home and fed over a long term.

 

[tdonline]

Do you mean pinch the scruff and see if it snaps back? Yes, I don't know if I'm doing it right though. The skin seems to go back quickly and "normally" but then again I have nothing to compare to.

I change the water twice daily in a big heavy glass bowl. It's about 40oz of water that gets poured out since no one touches it.

 

[catattack1985]

Originally Posted by tdonline

Do you mean pinch the scruff and see if it snaps back? Yes, I don't know if I'm doing it right though. The skin seems to go back quickly and "normally" but then again I have nothing to compare to.

I change the water twice daily in a big heavy glass bowl. It's about 40oz of water that gets poured out since no one touches it.

tdonline -- Cats that eat a mostly wet diet will drink far less water, if any at all. It sounds like you're taking steps to assure they're getting enough water - I think they'd be fine.

I agree, the "pinch" test needs something to compare to. I've looked online, but have been unable to find a video or even picture of what a "dehydrated" cat's response time is to a healthy hydrated cat.

There is also the "gum" test -- if you look at your cats mouth (provided your cat will allow for this), and press a finger against the gumline, it should turn white and then bounce back to the pinkish hue within 1-2 seconds. If your cat is dehydrated, it will take longer.

I have no idea the validity about either 'test'.

 

[ping]

If at all possible, and there are instructions for making this homemade and cheap on the site, getting a pet fountain. Back when I didn't have a cat fountain I noticed Ping hardly ever drank water out of the bowl of still water. But once I got the fountain he would drink regularly from that even with wet food in his diet. May be that is something you can look into.

Originally Posted by tdonline

Do you mean pinch the scruff and see if it snaps back? Yes, I don't know if I'm doing it right though. The skin seems to go back quickly and "normally" but then again I have nothing to compare to.

I change the water twice daily in a big heavy glass bowl. It's about 40oz of water that gets poured out since no one touches it.

 

[sharky]

Both the snap and gum tests are accurate if you know what your doing... ie snap should start to go down Immediately not 5 seconds later..

Most cat Drink 4-6 oz a day on dry only .... less on wet and dry and some do not drink and are fine on just wet ... IMHO talk with your vet

 

[tdonline]

Cat only need 4-6 oz of water daily? I read that it was one oz per pound? My cats are just under 10 pounds. So I was worried that they were not drinking enough.

Four TB of water is 2oz. And 5 oz of wet food at 78% moisture is about 3.5 oz of water so I guess my cats are getting enough.

Vets have all said my cats look great and have not mentioned any issues with dehydration.

 

[jack31]

Just to throw out my experience with raw for those who have never tried it. Jack and Harley were on about 75% raw for 4 months. They were completely different cats. Leaner and more energetic. I hope that I am able to do that diet again. But I have to have the commitment of my husband to do it with four cats now. It reallys isn't difficult I have amazing resources here but it does take commitment. I was never concerned with salmonella if you want to know the truth I was careful but never worried because I saw the physical results in my cats that the diet had.

As a side note, I would never go back to an all dry diet. My cats eat a tablespoon of dry a day and the rest wet. I keep them on dry solely because we go out of town a lot and rely on my parents and neighbors to care for them and can only have them here one time a day, where as I feed them 3 times a day. They shed heavily on dry and shed very little at all on wet, they consume very little water as well on wet. When we adopted Harley he was alittle overweight, the wet diet helped him to slim down very easily as well. As far as cost, wet is more expensive, but I know the payoff now is better than the vet bills long term. I want these cats to be in my life for 20+ years and don't want to see them suffer from diabetes and kidney disease d/t dry food diets.

Leslie

 

[catattack1985]

Originally Posted by tdonline

Cat only need 4-6 oz of water daily? I read that it was one oz per pound? My cats are just under 10 pounds. So I was worried that they were not drinking enough.

Four TB of water is 2oz. And 5 oz of wet food at 78% moisture is about 3.5 oz of water so I guess my cats are getting enough.

Vets have all said my cats look great and have not mentioned any issues with dehydration.

If the vet says you're good......... and as long as your cat is passing the "hydration" tests and is urinating normally... I'd say you're totally fine....

Like for many recommendations, I think the recommended water in-take is a suggested amount (1oz per lb) and may be based on a few variables like how active your cat is, if he's an outdoor/indoor cat, the overall health of your cat, and the climate in which you live....

If I do the math, my cat (at 12.5 lbs) gets about 8-9 oz. of water a day and is perfectly fine.... I get concerned some days when it's really hot out and try to sneak in more water with his food, but if I put too much water in with his food, he gives it this "OH MY GOD! YOU EXPECT ME TO EAT THAT?!" look and will just play with it.

It's funny, he has a specific threshold.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by tdonline

Cat only need 4-6 oz of water daily? I read that it was one oz per pound? My cats are just under 10 pounds. So I was worried that they were not drinking enough.

Four TB of water is 2oz. And 5 oz of wet food at 78% moisture is about 3.5 oz of water so I guess my cats are getting enough.

Vets have all said my cats look great and have not mentioned any issues with dehydration.

Most vet manuals I have checked with would say 4-6 oz .. More than that on a regular basis could signal a problem...

 

[Ms. Freya]

Interesting thread...

I'm currently doing a combination of wet and dry. They used to get only dry, but that was because we had yet to find a wet food Cotton would eat and which didn't go straight through Freya, so they got about a 1/2 cup of dry each day split over two meals and lots of water. Personally, I didn't give it much thought since they were healthy and a good weight.

Fast forward to Cotton's dental problems rearing their head yet again and we decided to start switching him onto at least partially wet food, if for no other reason than to make life easier when he went in for dental care. He still loves his kibble, so I leave a bit in for him, but now I mix it with wet...and not a moment too soon since he's slated to have the last of his teeth pulled this week. Fortunately Freya started nibbling on his food while we weren't looking and managed to transition herself to half-and-half as well over the past month.

Personally, I wasn't too happy with dry food since rice went up in price and suddenly plenty of brands that used to have rice now had a mix of rice and corn.

They both drink less with the wet in thier diet and have much better coats, but I do leave the dry in a) because they REALLY like it, b) because we both travel for work occasionally and need a non-spoiling option they'll eat and c) I hate to admit it but all wet is simply just not possible cost-wise for us right now...especially since my picky little darlings settled on a not-exactly-cheap food.

I'm getting better at working the price into our budget and stocking up when cans are on sale, though.

 

[misskalamata]

Originally Posted by Ms. Freya

Fast forward to Cotton's dental problems rearing their head yet again and we decided to start switching him onto at least partially wet food, if for no other reason than to make life easier when he went in for dental care.

Strangely enough, my cat with dental issues (teeth not in great condition, grinds his teeth) has little trouble eating dry food but really struggles to eat wet. I'm thinking maybe he chews the wet food and just swallows the dry whole....although I do cut the wet chunks into little pieces.

Originally Posted by tdonline

Do you mean pinch the scruff and see if it snaps back? Yes, I don't know if I'm doing it right though. The skin seems to go back quickly and "normally" but then again I have nothing to compare to.

I haven't quite figured this out either. Every cat I've tried this on appears dehydrated according to this test...the skin never "snaps" right back. I'm probably doing it wrong.

 

[Ms. Freya]

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

Strangely enough, my cat with dental issues (teeth not in great condition, grinds his teeth) has little trouble eating dry food but really struggles to eat wet. I'm thinking maybe he chews the wet food and just swallows the dry whole....although I do cut the wet chunks into little pieces.

On normal days, even with bad teeth, Cotton actually doesn't have problems with dry. It's those periods after he's had dental extractions that were becoming nightmarish because he simply couldn't each kibble for about 2 weeks but hated canned food so we were looking for a canned that he'd eat to make those 'recovery times' easier.

Honestly, he'll still get his kibble even after his teeth are gone. Since he doesn't really chew it anyway. Sorry if I didn't explain that very well.

 

[followedbydolls]

I am a combo wet/dry free choice feeder... I feed very much in the same way i fed my original pair of cats{who lived to 17 & almost 19yrs} only differences being i feed higher end dry & we have a pet water fountain something unavailable years ago.

My cats are all healthy, good weights, active so obviously what i am doing is working for my cats.