Kibble suggestions - no duck, rice, egg...and more.

[burkey]

We recently had allergy testing done for our 10 month old cat, George, and the results are back. We ran them for the environmental components (and I've started a thread in the health forum regarding that aspect), but since a food panel was included, and I have an immediate need to change his food, I'd like to use the info if at all possible.

I know that allergy testing for cats isn't an exact science. Negatives are frequently true negatives, but positives can be false. Especially with food items.

What I'd like to do, is initially avoid the ingredients he tested positive for, and add them back slowly, one-by-one, to definitively eliminate or confirm their status.

So, the food panel results...
Strong positive: duck, rice, egg
Mild positive: potatoes, salmon, venison

Ingredients I refuse to feed, ever: soy, corn, wheat

I also need to avoid peas. He has been on a food trial for 10 weeks, with Royal Canin PR. He was eating peas regularly before the trial, and the trial food is predominantly peas. It's the one static ingredient and since we've come this far, I think it'd be extremely foolish at this point not to consider it.

It's a long list... This would actually be easy, if George was happily eating 100% wet food. But unfortunately he's not. We had started transitioning him to wet when we first adopted him in January, but when put on the food trial that went straight out the window. We need to get some weight on him before we start pushing him towards wet again, so kibble is where the challenge lies.

So...when looking at no duck, rice, egg, potatoes, salmon, venison, soy, corn, wheat, and peas...
I've found Wysong Epigen 90, and ZiwiPeak Lamb. Anyone aware of others that might fit this criteria? I know it's a long-shot with such a long list, but can't hurt to ask!

If I bend a bit, and allow for potatoes, does that perhaps open up any more kibble contenders? When scouring countless ingredient lists, I wasn't allowing for potatoes...and I'm a bit brain-dead at the moment so if anyone knows of something it would be a tremendous help to my poor abused mind, before I go at it again.

 

[vball91]

The only other one I can think of Young Again Zero Carb. It is very difficult to find a kibble without those ingredients. Many vibes that George likes one of these. The good news is that since all of these are pretty high in calories, he won't need to eat a lot of it.

 

[burkey]

Thank you very much for that suggestion, I've not heard of that food before so I will see if I can find it! 

If I can't find something he'll eat, I'm willing to bend on the ingredients. But after 10 weeks of strict food limitations I'm not willing to throw just anything at him if I don't have to, without investigating the ones that came up as potential allergens...we've come this far, I think doing my best to logically exit the food trial is the way to go...if George will let me.

Peas is the one thing I'm adamant about, because it's been in his diet all long. I was floored to find so many foods contain peas...both dry and wet.

And high calorie is good! The food he has been eating is not calorically sufficient for a growing kitten who self regulates his daily intake. He needs a good half to one pound on his frame. I am anxious to get him onto better food....and dream of the day he's eating 100% wet. We'll get there....

Thanks again!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
We recently had allergy testing done for our 10 month old cat, George, and the results are back. We ran them for the environmental components (and I've started a thread in the health forum regarding that aspect), but since a food panel was included, and I have an immediate need to change his food, I'd like to use the info if at all possible.

I know that allergy testing for cats isn't an exact science. Negatives are frequently true negatives, but positives can be false. Especially with food items.

What I'd like to do, is initially avoid the ingredients he tested positive for, and add them back slowly, one-by-one, to definitively eliminate or confirm their status.

So, the food panel results...
Strong positive: duck, rice, egg
Mild positive: potatoes, salmon, venison

Ingredients I refuse to feed, ever: soy, corn, wheat

I also need to avoid peas. He has been on a food trial for 10 weeks, with Royal Canin PR. He was eating peas regularly before the trial, and the trial food is predominantly peas. It's the one static ingredient and since we've come this far, I think it'd be extremely foolish at this point not to consider it.

It's a long list... This would actually be easy, if George was happily eating 100% wet food. But unfortunately he's not. We had started transitioning him to wet when we first adopted him in January, but when put on the food trial that went straight out the window. We need to get some weight on him before we start pushing him towards wet again, so kibble is where the challenge lies.

So...when looking at no duck, rice, egg, potatoes, salmon, venison, soy, corn, wheat, and peas...
I've found Wysong Epigen 90, and ZiwiPeak Lamb. Anyone aware of others that might fit this criteria? I know it's a long-shot with such a long list, but can't hurt to ask!

If I bend a bit, and allow for potatoes, does that perhaps open up any more kibble contenders? When scouring countless ingredient lists, I wasn't allowing for potatoes...and I'm a bit brain-dead at the moment so if anyone knows of something it would be a tremendous help to my poor abused mind, before I go at it again.

Have you looked at any of the Nature's Variety Line in the dry kibble? There is Rabbit, Lamb, Chicken in regular and Turkey and Rabbit in the LID varieties : http://www.instinctpetfood.com/cats

The NV is very low-carb in the regular and would be a good choice. I just looked at the LID and it contains Peas which is surprising. I have tried both the chicken and rabbit on my crew and they have done well on it.

 

[vball91]

I believe that all the NV foods have peas.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I believe that all the NV foods have peas.

Not the (regular) dry kibble, which is what she was asking about.

  The LID varieties feature peas though. All of the dry formulas are featured in the link.

 

[abbyntim]

I checked a few foods that come to mind, and all contain peas. If I come up with any other ideas, I'll post.

I did want to point out that ZiwiPeak is air-dried raw equivalent, not kibble. This may or may not change your opinion. It's likely healthier than kibble, but may not be what you or George expect.

Are you sure George wouldn't accept and gain weight on canned food? You might have better luck avoiding peas with canned, though I'm not sure as I am avoiding many things and the food I am feeding contains peas. I am feeding Nature's Variety Instinct canned. Because I'm trying to reduce carbohydrates for my cats, I pick out the whole peas. Not sure if the food contains ground peas, however.

 

[burkey]

Thanks for the NVI suggestion!! They have apparently played with the formulation of the kibbles recently...the website has ingredient lists for both new and old, thankfully. Depending which is on my store shelves at the moment (new or old), I might be able to use the chicken. The previous formulation did contain eggs, but the new one apparently does not. This is one I can get locally, so that would be great if they've got the newer one!  And yes, the Rabbit & Salmon regular instinct kibbles do contain peas, and the old formulation of the duck did, as well. Anyone using NVI should watch the ingredient lists on the bags in-store, if you are feeding a cat where a formulation change could be problematic.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Thanks for the NVI suggestion!! They have apparently played with the formulation of the kibbles recently...the website has ingredient lists for both new and old, thankfully. Depending which is on my store shelves at the moment (new or old), I might be able to use the chicken. The previous formulation did contain eggs, but the new one apparently does not. This is one I can get locally, so that would be great if they've got the newer one!  And yes, the Rabbit & Salmon regular instinct kibbles do contain peas, and the old formulation of the duck did, as well. Anyone using NVI should watch the ingredient lists on the bags in-store, if you are feeding a cat where a formulation change could be problematic.

You're welcome .. Yes, I just took a second look at the Rabbit and Salmon and see the Peas. That is just too weird. 

  I mean the food is so low carb, why do they bother with the peas unless its considered a filler?

I actually spoke with NV a few weeks ago and there are some (good) changes coming according to the feedback that I received. Anyway, hope the Chicken NV can work for your kitties.

 

 

[burkey]

 
I checked a few foods that come to mind, and all contain peas. If I come up with any other ideas, I'll post.

I did want to point out that ZiwiPeak is air-dried raw equivalent, not kibble. This may or may not change your opinion. It's likely healthier than kibble, but may not be what you or George expect.

Are you sure George wouldn't accept and gain weight on canned food? You might have better luck avoiding peas with canned, though I'm not sure as I am avoiding many things and the food I am feeding contains peas. I am feeding Nature's Variety Instinct canned. Because I'm trying to reduce carbohydrates for my cats, I pick out the whole peas. Not sure if the food contains ground peas, however.

An air dried raw would be totally up my alley, we'd have to see what George thinks about it.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't accept a 100% wet diet. He came to us a hard-core kibble addict. Before having to put him on the food trial, we had gotten him to maybe a 50/50 dry/wet over a month's time....with a lot of bribery and effort on our part. But not being able to use bribery during the food trial, he slipped back to almost 100% dry. The only way I could get him to ingest any of the prescription canned, was to mix a dab into a ton of warm water, and he'd take a few sips....he wouldn't touch it any other consistency.  Now that we have the green-light to start offering him other foods again, we are going to offer him as much canned as he wants to eat, and I can start putting his favorite freeze-dried chicken on it as a topper, which will certainly help.  But if his habits are similar to before, I'll need to fall back on the kibble for at least a portion of his diet until he can be persuaded fully into the land of wet food.  Perhaps he's so sick of the nasty Royal Canin PR, that he'll surprise us and gobble up plenty of canned food to fatten himself up. That would make my day!!!

Our end goal has always been to transition him to 100% wet (our other cat Dory, has happily been eating 100% wet from day one, thankfully). The food trial threw a big wrench into our transition plans for George, but with any luck we'll be back on track soon.

 

[abbyntim]

 Perhaps he's so sick of the nasty Royal Canin PR, that he'll surprise us and gobble up plenty of canned food to fatten himself up. That would make my day!!!

Try using this to your advantage. If he's been eating nasty prescription kibble and you offer him some nice canned food that is mostly meat, he might just gobble it up. And I do believe you will have better luck finding a food without duck, rice, eggs, and peas if you searched canned. At least I hope so!

Good luck, I can only imagine what you're going through with such a young cat.

 

[goholistic]

Here's one from Great Life that does not contain any of the ingredients you listed, as long as he can do chicken:

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/product_p/gfccf.htm

The ingredients are unique and it uses some freeze-dried, but it is still pretty high in carbs.

 

[burkey]

The search for appropriate canned food, has definitely been easier! On my shopping list, so far I have Tiki Puka Puka, Wellness Core Kitten, Wellness grain-free kitten, EVO Chicken & Turkey, and even a couple of the Nutro Natural Choice loaf varieties look to fit the bill (although I hope not to feed those long term).  And I've ordered a case of By Nature 95% chicken & liver. Once I have a chance to get to the store, we'll be all set to go at least on the canned, and even if I have to order the kibble, we'll have that by early next week. Thanks for the nice comments. It's been challenging, but our little man Georgie has very much been worth every bit of it, and more.

April 2014 002.JPG

• burkey
• Apr 24, 2014

 

[burkey]

 
Here's one from Great Life that does not contain any of the ingredients you listed, as long as he can do chicken:

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/product_p/gfccf.htm

The ingredients are unique and it uses some freeze-dried, but it is still pretty high in carbs.

I've not heard of this brand before, either. Thanks so much for putting it on my radar! Having several to pick from in the arsenal is a good thing for picky George.

 

[goholistic]

Not to throw you another curve ball, but additives and preservatives can also cause sensitivities. I recently determined that Sebastian is allergic to guar gum, which is a thickener added to almost all canned cat foods. Some of the usual additives in canned food don't seem to be as prevalent in kibble, but wanted to put that out there. I was so sure it was a protein causing the rash in his ear, but narrowed it down to guar gum by an unintentional trial-and-error.

 

[burkey]

 
Not to throw you another curve ball, but additives and preservatives can also cause sensitivities. I recently determined that Sebastian is allergic to guar gum, which is a thickener added to almost all canned cat foods. Some of the usual additives in canned food don't seem to be as prevalent in kibble, but wanted to put that out there. I was so sure it was a protein causing the rash in his ear, but narrowed it down to guar gum by an unintentional trial-and-error.

Please do throw curve balls at me. There is so much to consider, that it's nearly impossible to keep it straight in my brain most of the time!  So having others point new things out, and/or remind me of things I've forgotten, is incredibly helpful.  I'm glad you were able to narrow things down to guar gum, even if by error! You were so helpful to me when we first started George on the pea & rabbit. I'm glad to hear some good news.

My short-term goal is to get him off the Royal Canin ASAP.  Commercial foods seem the fastest way to accomplish that. But going beyond that, I'm open to trying almost anything to determine what is going to work out best for a longer haul. I'm considering cooking for him, meat plus an all-in-one type supplement (or as close to all-in-one as I can get), if I find I need to. And if we ever get to the point where steroid use is totally out of the picture, I'd be game for trying raw, too.

Since I seem to have a rapt audience right now, is anyone familiar with feeding canned sardines (in water, no salt) as a way of getting more omega 3's into the diet? I haven't tried them on George's taste buds yet, but intend to in the near future (baby steps, don't want to bombard his system with new-ness all at once). If he likes them... what's the right amount to offer him, and how often? I have no idea at all. I'd intended to give him one, and if he gives them the thumbs up ask at that time. But since you all are here, does anyone have the answer to that question?  Krill oil a few times per week is also in the longer-term plan, once he's happily eating some wet food again (and thus I can attempt to hide the krill oil in it). Fatty acids & Omega 3's are supposed to be beneficial for inflammation and the immune system, so now that he no longer has to be on the strict food trial, I'm looking to get good things into him.

I also plan to start a food journal, so I can keep track of what he's taking in, in case I need to take something back out.....

 

[onemeow]

I just saw this thread today, just another brand to consider . No duck, rice, egg, potatoes, salmon, venison, certainly no soy, corn, wheat.

Ingredients: Wild herring meal, and/or wild anchovy meal, and/or wild sardine meal, chicken meal, pearled barley, oat meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), phosphoric acid, dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, methionine, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate, cranberries, blueberries, raspberries, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, iodine, cobalt, selenium), vitamins (vitamin E, vitamin C, riboflavin, niacin, d-pantothenic acid, thiamine, vitamin A, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3), taurine

 

[burkey]

First mate is another food I wasn't familiar with.  Thank you so much for mentioning it!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Is anyone familiar with feeding canned sardines (in water, no salt) as a way of getting more omega 3's into the diet? I haven't tried them on George's taste buds yet, but intend to in the near future (baby steps, don't want to bombard his system with new-ness all at once). If he likes them... what's the right amount to offer him, and how often? I have no idea at all. I'd intended to give him one, and if he gives them the thumbs up ask at that time. But since you all are here, does anyone have the answer to that question?  Krill oil a few times per week is also in the longer-term plan, once he's happily eating some wet food again (and thus I can attempt to hide the krill oil in it). Fatty acids & Omega 3's are supposed to be beneficial for inflammation and the immune system, so now that he no longer has to be on the strict food trial, I'm looking to get good things into him.

I also plan to start a food journal, so I can keep track of what he's taking in, in case I need to take something back out.....

I have given sardines and a bit of tuna to my cats as a treat on occasion, but prefer to supplement with wild alaskan salmon oil as a source of omega-3, rather than doing sardines for a couple of reasons. Fish protein (and this would include sardines), comes with the potential for causing UTIs and triggering allergies in some cats whereas there is not the same issues with the oil. I am also concerned about where sardines are sourced. There are a few brands of wild alaskan salmon, cod liver and krill that are sourced from arctic waters and therefore do not contain high levels of contaminants. Ideally you want an oil that is extra-virgin and cold-pressed to ensure that the nutritional integrity of the oil is high. Here are a couple of brands of Salmon and Cod Liver Oil for reference : http://purealaskaomega.com/salmon-oil, https://www.nordicnaturals.com/en/General_Public/Arctic_Cod_Liver_Oil/378

Krill and cod liver oil are also beneficial, but I find are a bit heavier than salmon oil. While most cats seem to really like fish, not all cats will tolerate the fish oils just so you are aware. If your cats don't care for fish oil, you could also take a look at coconut oil which is plant-based but comes with its own list of benefits of which there are many. Here is a link that I have passed around, that discusses coconut oil : http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.ca/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

The food journal can be a very helpful tool for tracking progress and changes in response to something you have introduced. I have been journaling for a few years now, and in particular when Max was struggling with constipation.

 

[burkey]

It's been a week, and thought I would give an update...

We found the new formulation of the Nature's Variety Instinct chicken kibble locally, so we're going with that. (Our Petco currently has both the old and new formulations on the shelf). George seems to like it and we're at a 50/50 mix of this and the prescription Royal Canin PR. We're bumping it to 75% new this weekend, and if it continues to agree with him the RC will be a thing of the past in just a few more days!

We stopped the canned RC completely on Monday, and are now giving him By Nature 95% chicken & chicken liver. Suprise, surprise... he enjoys it! Without any bribery or encouragement on my part, he is eating between 1/2 and 3/4 a can per day! I could not be more thrilled! We're going to give him another week at his pace, to see if he'll increase the amount of canned he eats on his own even further (he needs a good 300+ calories per day, which is 1 1/2 cans, so he's almost halfway there). If not, we'll start back with the bribery. End goal has always been to get him to 100% wet, and I'm really encouraged he's taking to it so much better than he did before the food trial (he was at about 50% wet prior, but with oodles of bribery & effort from us).

The best part of it all... he's been a really, really happy cat this past week. The George we've known from the day we brought him home in January was somewhat reserved in comparison to our other cat Dory....a snuggly guy with short bursts of play once or twice a day.  But a few days ago someone flipped a switch and now he's a silly energetic fool. Dory, is thrilled with the new & improved George, too. They zoom all over the house together, chattering back & forth, hunting for toys &/or stalking each other. It's fantastic!

His fur is also softer. I expected this eventually, but not in just a few days time.

I'm very glad we did the food trial, but ecstatic it is finally over! 

Thank you again everyone for your input!