Is this a common male thing?

[nerdrock]

Sorry, but I have to vent. I don't know if it's just the day I've had today or what.

I was talking to a coworker/friend on msn, she's having problems with her fiance. They have been trying to get married for two years now, but every time they have enough money saved up something happens and she has to bail him out financially. They just moved here from about 4 hours away in December, he was supposed to be helping save up to move and didn't, so she had to cover everything. Now they are having to move again soon, just to a different place here in the city (they have HORRIBLE neighbours and management where they live) and she said it's happening again - she's told him that he needs to start saving so that they can move, but he's still not doing it and as a result she's getting behind in her financial commitments because of having to bail him out. He doesn't have a lot of expenses - he doesn't drive, he's supposed to pay half of their rent and half of the bills, as well as his cellphone, but for some reason he just doesn't have it at the end of the month when it comes time to pay for these things. She's understandably getting frustrated with it.

One of mine and Mike's friends was texting me a bit ago asking if we were coming down to a festival that is going on downtown this weekend, she said she was there alone. I asked her where her boyfriend is and she said he was at home feeling sorry for himself - it's basically the same story as above, although both of them are in college/university here so during the school year they have student loans. She has managed to get a job for the summer and is making good money, she even got him a job at the same company (different location though) but she's saying that he's still far behind on rent.

Mike and I are also getting into the same situation. He has been looking for work but he's been out of it for almost a year now. It's getting very frustrating for me because I'm not getting the help at home (cleaning, dishes, etc) and I'm working full time, but he just wants to go out a couple of times a week because he's "stuck at home all the time". When I explain to him that we have no money to go out all the time it ends up turning into a bit of an argument, although we never really fight... I'm sure it will get to that point soon though if I don't start getting more help both around the house and financially. We're going up to visit his parents in just over a week, so I'll have 10 hours in a car to lecture him, lol. I hate our apartment but right now we're basically forced to stay here until he gets work again because we can't afford all of the expenses of moving without getting ourselves into some pretty good debt. Right now we aren't too bad off, we're managing to pay everything and have a little set aside for any emergencies with the animals, but it's not going to be that way long if this keeps up.

Is this a common male thing? Are they really that clueless and bad with money? I haven't had this problem in a relationship before, but then again I haven't really lived with a boyfriend for this long before - my last long term relationship was long distance, so I would only have to live with him for a month at a time, lol.

Sorry for the rant but I needed to vent, I'm extremely frustrated and I will be talking to him about it tomorrow... I want to wait until I'm calmer so that I can be rational, lol.

 

[whisky'sdad]

Women are better at budgeting than men. I'm living at my sister's right now and she is helping me with how to budget my money, what little of it I have right now. I don't have any bills, just a student loan and personal loans I need to pay back. A little in savings, a little to spend and a little to pay back. Once I start working at a paying job, it will be better.

 

[ducman69]

Its definitely not a gender thing, and if anything as a whole men tend to be more frequently sole providers or have higher income than their spouses.

I feel ya though, but IMO its even worse for guys in the dating scene as it is expected that we take on most of the financial burden. I have only been on one date where a girl actually recommended going dutch, and I have certainly never been treated 100% as just about every girl expects to be. There are certainly sugar-mamas out there too, but overall I would wager there are more sugar-daddys as a whole. It might just be the people I hang out with, but asking my female friends what they look for in a guy, "money" (phrased in different ways) is almost always in the top three. Not that guys aren't shallow too, but not usually about the financial stability/income of gals.

So I'd say being fiscally responsible is just a skill, and there are plenty of gals and guys that need help in that department.

Originally Posted by Whisky'sDad

Women are better at budgeting than men.

As if there aren't plenty of credit-card shopping happy women out there. I love my mom, but I don't think she's paid a bill in her life, heh! My dad has to handle just about everything finance/budget wise.

 

[nerdrock]

Thanks guys

I think part of it may also have to do with our age group - we're all in our mid twenties, with my boyfriend being the oldest at 28. Us girls are definitely the more responsible and mature ones, we had our partying days quite some time ago but the boys are all still in it, meaning that they like to go out more and have some beers. We do as well, but we seem to be able to content ourselves with doing it once every few weeks or once a month.

I will say that I know when Mike gets another job that many of our stress and what not will go away - whenever he has been working things have been fine and normal. It's just the waiting until we get to that point.

As an aside, I do all of our budgeting and handle the money. Mike gets an allowance (although don't tell him that, lol, I don't think he's clicked in yet).

 

[ducman69]

LOL! Yeah, and definitely don't use the "you can't make me sleep on the couch, I paid for the bed and the roof over it, but you are welcome to sleep on my couch if you'd like to be alone" line....

Unfortunately, age doesn't always help. I have a coworker who actually makes more than us, is 43 years old, and yet is worse than broke, not paying child support for his kids, talks about 'going black' and drives a horrible beater and was kicked out of a friends house for not paying rent. The main issue I think is that if you don't learn to budget and generally be responsible, your cost of living is MUCH higher than it would otherwise be as it generally costs more long-term to rent than own and you're hit with big interest costs and even insurance premiums can be quite a bit higher. Its one of the most important life-skills I think anyone can learn, and yet in highschool we learn a whole bunch of things in chemistry class and the like that are ultimately useless to just about everyone after graduation, and yet its never even glanced over learning about credit cards and designing a budget for yourself and what not.

 

[sarahp]

I'm clueless when it comes to money. I rely on DH to look after all the financial stuff, because I forget to pay bills, and don't manage it very well. Definitely not a gender thing

 

[lunatuna]

My husband is a good budget keeper. I think it has to do with his upbringing as he was raised by a single mom who worked multiple jobs to support him and his little brother. His brother is the same way. They know the difference between wants and necessities and make sure the necessities are always there.

 

[krazy kat2]

Neither one of us is very good at the financial aspects of our relationship, so he comes home, hands me money, I put it away until a bill comes, and I pay it. This is the only time it has been really tight to the point of possibly having things turned off is this month. We ran through our savings and have nothing to fall back on. I was in the hospital most of May, and even though he went to work every day, he made very little money. I have had surgery twice, and have not been able to work. Thankfully I can go back to work tomorrow.

 

[kailie]

It's kind of balanced between Dana and I. I'm the one who takes care of making sure that all of the bills are paid, budgeting, etc, but I am HORRIBLE spender and love to spend money.

It burns a hole in my pocket like no tomorrow, where Dana is more a saver than a spender. He's clueless when it comes to making sure bills are covered on time though.

When it comes to working, he's a SUPER hard worker with an amazing work ethic. Thankfully he has a good job, however if he were to lose it he would do whatever he could to continue to provide, including flipping burgers until he could find something better. Also, with the chores, we take care of everything 50/50. He bitches and complains about it, but he always does it if I ask him too.

 

[Winchester]

My DH is wonderful with the budget. He takes care of all the bills and does a great job. I'd be lost without him. (Now if I could just get him to pitch in around the house a bit.....

) I'm hopeless. I used to do the bills until I found myself transposing numbers in the check book and got everything messed up. From that point on, he's been the financial genius in the family.

I probably make almost twice as much as he does and it's been that way for about 25 years or so. I don't throw it up to him, although sometimes he'll say something to me. But for the most part, I don't think it bothers him unless something like it comes up in conversations with friends when we start talking about finances and such. That being said, he goes to work every day and hardly ever takes off. He's a hard worker and he's a good worker. So it evens out.

We both like to spend money and it's been difficult to cut back with everything going on. But we've pretty much managed to stay within our budget so far this year, although our cat budget is going to be taking a hit again this year with kitten food and new-kitty vet bills (kitten vaccines, Tabby's spay, etc.) that we weren't counting on. That happens sometimes.

But overall, DH does a great job.

 

[otto]

There are lazy free loading men in every generation. Guy sits on his patootie and runs them deeper into debt while the woman works her tail off,. Not all men of course.

But it happens often enough that anyone who finds themselves in a situation like the first friend you mentioned, where the pattern has been repeated over and over, it's time to dump the loser.

It's happened to me, two of my sisters and my mother. There comes a time when you just have to cut your losses and get out of it. There are worse things than being alone, and letting a lazy man drag you down is one of them.

 

[odiakkoh]

When we first got together we were equally careless. We ate out for every meal, bought whatever we wanted, etc. Then we got married, had a baby and I stopped working. He has been noticeably slower jumping on the responsibility wagon when it comes to finances. Not to say I'm perfect but he will buy a bunch of $1 items throughout the month and wonder where the money went lol. We ended up deciding that I will manage the finances and he can get an allowance. Sounds demeaning for a grown man to get an allowance from his wife but he prefers it. That way he can get whatever he wants and not worry that he's spending too much.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by otto

There are lazy free loading men in every generation. Guy sits on his patootie and runs them deeper into debt while the woman works her tail off,. Not all men of course.

But it happens often enough that anyone who finds themselves in a situation like the first friend you mentioned, where the pattern has been repeated over and over, it's time to dump the loser.

It's happened to me, two of my sisters and my mother. There comes a time when you just have to cut your losses and get out of it. There are worse things than being alone, and letting a lazy man drag you down is one of them.

I agree with this post. Your SO doesn't seem to be as bad as all that but your friend's man who isn't contributing at all financially needs to be shoved to the curb. People are usually on their best behaviour during courting and dating and then when they marry things change - and that's on both parts, male and female. So, if things are good before marriage, they are not going to be better after.

There are plenty of free-loading men but you can't blame them any more than the woman who puts up with it. Sugar daddies, as Ducman mentioned above, are IMO a different thing altogether. These are just older men that need to feel young so pick up the young women for arm candy. For the mercenary young women who put money before like, love and care, then they deserve whatever treatment they have to put up with to get the money.

I personally have always put huge emphasis on kindness, goodness, honesty, integrity and if they didn't have much money, I didn't care.

I've always paid my own way. Even now when my SO and I go out, I pay half of everything because he doesn't have any more money than I have so fair is fair.

 

[otto]

Yes I think it's more about attitude than money or lack of it. A guy who is broke but is looking hard for work, or does the housework to make up for the fact that only one in the family is working, is careful with spending, isn't the type I was talking about in my post.

It's the guy who sits around and takes and takes and takes, and spends and spends and spends. Goes out with his "buddies", and contributes nothing to the home or relationship but a warm body. Bletch.

There are all degrees of this of course and a couple who've been married for a while or years and the guy has always been responsible and then suddenly isn't, that's a different situation.

But what is described in the first scenario, every time she gets the money saved, the guy finds a way to blow it, and the guy contributes nothing, ever. That situation will never change, and she's better off without him.

My older sister had her car repoed and lost her credit rating over a guy like that.

I loaned money, I'm embarrassed to admit how much I got taken for before I finally wised up.

My younger sister was left with the clothes on her back.

My mother struggled to raise a family of five kids, while my stepfather sat in the living room and smoked and "recovered" from alcoholism. He didn't drink but he didn't do anything else either. Oh wait, he went to the track a lot. yeah, his winnings were supposed to put the oil in our furnace so we had heat in winter. Uh huh.

I'm not saying "women are perfect" but women aren't what were are talking about here. We're talking about freeloading men. And there are plenty.

 

[calvin&i]

From what I've heard from family and friends and then seen from my experience, I feel women are better with money in times of crisis or when they have to deal with money problems.

DH and I, while we were both grad students (I still am), went into some debt and it was rough paying bills for a bit. None of that was really due to frivolous spending but we were surviving on 1 grad student's stipend and applying to other programs/ residency and DH was taking his boards, which were HUGELY expensive. Initially it was hubby who took care of all money matters and let's just say, it was a little disorganized and not ideal. Then 1 day, I just decided to delve into our finances and figured that I needed to play a more active role. I went to a debt solution forum and it was just so informative and I loved the support there. Interestingly, the ratio of men and women in that forum was about that we have here. It seemed lots of women took financial matters in their own hands and were working doggedly towards repaying debt and doing very well at it. Most of the husbands were less on board initially but many converted when they saw results. Now DH earns more than I do but I still take care of finances since we have a system that works.

Of course, there are people of both gender who are bad with money. I undertand that there are many women who do not earn and are only "spenders", as Ducman indicated, but I think the utiity value of a housewife and mother is not small. But that's a whole different issue. Also sometimes I feel that people who are less "responsible" with money or do not understand what their partners are struggling with (often time we do not communicate as much as we should about finances), should be given the whole responsibility of financially running the household for a month and perhaps they will appreciate it more.

 

[Draco]

Sounds like the last 4 guys I've dated. When I visited their places (3 of 4 are in their parent's basement), It was easy to see they weren't financially responsible and/or really lazy and are slobs.

Doesn't help with 3 of 4 of them asked me to pay for the dinner, mine and his', and they didn't take out their wallets.

Needless to say, they never got a second date from me, lol.

I am sure there's men out there that is financially stable and knowledgable. I just think in this economy, most are so tight in cash, they'd rather not spend it, or just don't have it. I've BTDT.

 

[nerdrock]

It's kind of balanced between Dana and I. I'm the one who takes care of making sure that all of the bills are paid, budgeting, etc, but I am HORRIBLE spender and love to spend money. It burns a hole in my pocket like no tomorrow, where Dana is more a saver than a spender. He's clueless when it comes to making sure bills are covered on time though.

When it comes to working, he's a SUPER hard worker with an amazing work ethic. Thankfully he has a good job, however if he were to lose it he would do whatever he could to continue to provide, including flipping burgers until he could find something better. Also, with the chores, we take care of everything 50/50. He bitches and complains about it, but he always does it if I ask him too.

This is pretty similar to my relationship with Mike, although he is not better with money, lol. I think the last month for us has really sunk in with him because we had literally nothing extra to spend so there was very little that he/we could do.

He is a very hard worker and has pretty good work ethic. The problem is that he has a lot of kitchen experience so places where he'd be flipping burgers won't hire him because of his experience and places that are "better" kitchens are trying to hire less experienced people so that they don't have to pay them as much. He's willing to work for minimum wage, but they don't see that. We have to go up and visit his parents in about a week (they're paying for our gas money) so I told him that when we get back we're both going to look for a job for him. I'm going to get a copy of his resume and give it to a few friends that work in places that I think he would like and that may hire based on recommendations, it seems like that's one of the only ways to get a job around here. There is also an internal position at the company that I work for in a different location, so I'm going to go through his resume and redo it so that he has a good chance of getting that job. It's in the same department that I work in, and males are preferred because there is a lot of heavy lifting in one aspect of it. I am NOT attaching my name to his resume because if something goes wrong I do not want that coming down on me.

I do feel like money is burning a hole in my pocket quite often, but I am pretty good at resisting that urge. If I find that I can't, I'll walk down to the variety store and get an Arizona (99 cents) and a scratch ticket ($3) and be satisfied and thankfully then it's only $4 that I've spent. I only do that about once a month.

I agree with this post. Your SO doesn't seem to be as bad as all that but your friend's man who isn't contributing at all financially needs to be shoved to the curb. People are usually on their best behaviour during courting and dating and then when they marry things change - and that's on both parts, male and female. So, if things are good before marriage, they are not going to be better after.

I have told my friend repeatedly not to marry him until they get their financially situation sorted out and he smartens up. I have told her that things will only get worse when they do get married if they are in this situation already. They truly do love each other, I know them both quite well - he is just literally clueless. It's like someone else said, he buys $1 things throughout the month and then wonders where the money went.

As for Mike and I, we do not really plan on getting married at all, although we often call each other husband/wife when doing introductions because we are commonlaw. I think we were kind of lucky with the way we met (at a bar, lol, one night stand turned into real relationship), we were never on our best behaviour and we haven't changed since then. We have only ever had one real blow up argument where I made him stay at his friends house for the night, but we both agree that if we're upset about something we talk about it - maybe not right away when emotions are high, but the next day or something like that for sure.

From what I've heard from family and friends and then seen from my experience, I feel women are better with money in times of crisis or when they have to deal with money problems.

I tend to agree with this. Would you mind PMing me the website of that forum? I'd like to check it out, it sounds really interesting.

Yes I think it's more about attitude than money or lack of it. A guy who is broke but is looking hard for work, or does the housework to make up for the fact that only one in the family is working, is careful with spending, isn't the type I was talking about in my post.

It's the guy who sits around and takes and takes and takes, and spends and spends and spends. Goes out with his "buddies", and contributes nothing to the home or relationship but a warm body. Bletch.

I just want to clarify that Mike, my boyfriend, is bringing in money - he is on an assistance program that I insisted he go on. He is constantly going to their classes for retraining in job fields and is working on getting into Second Careers where they will pay for your schooling to go back to college or university for something else. The problem with us is that it just isn't enough, unfortunately. I am going to talk to him tomorrow when I get home from work about the housework thing. I do need him to step up on that because it's physically exhausting for me to work all day and the come home and have to clean. He does an excellent job of taking care of our pets and doing all of the cooking, he'll do laundry too if I give him the money for it or if we go to my parents house. He also goes out and busks quite often so that brings a bit of extra money in. We're lucky this month that there are three pay periods for me, so we can get caught up, and that he has two under the table jobs that will bring in about $300. The first one, setting up a stage for a festival and tearing it down, is his ideal dream job. He just loves that kind of thing. It's nice too because he'll be volunteering for the rest of the festival too so he gets to meet a lot of his favourite musicians and makes a lot of great contacts and references. He does it ever year and because of some contacts he made last year, he's got a job in August doing sound and stuff for a concert here.

_________________________________________________________________

With the first couple that I mentioned, I think there may also be something else going on on her part money wise. She gets less hours than me at work but makes more (because she was at a store that actually gave raises), so we make about the same. Her boyfriend actually make slightly more than her, so their income is about twice what ours is. I've tried helping her when she asks for help as far as getting on a budget but the numbers she gives me for things are super high, and I just can't understand how they are that much. So now I'm just keeping my nose out of it and listen to her complain when she needs to.

The second couple, they've been together for about 5 or 6 years. He was working for her father before they had to move here for school and was fine paying things while they were in school with his student loan money, but the problem comes in the summer when he doesn't have any income coming in. When that happens, he just prefers to sit around feeling sorry for himself and becoming depressed. It doesn't help that he dresses like a punk and doesn't really have any "nice" clothes - you can't expect to go to an interview wearing torn jeans and a shirt that's 10x too big with the sleeves cut off and get the job.

 

[amberthe bobcat]

Woman are no better at budgetting than men. It is a personal thing, whether you are good at it or not. I for one, being male for those who do not know me, am excellent at budgetting. I know many woman who are terrible at it, all they do is spend money, but have no clue where that money is coming from. They could not balance a check book to save their life if they had to and I also know some men that are the same way. The people I know who are terrible with their finances, I always hear the same thing. "I hate doing a budget". For me, finance is a piece of cake. I think it comes down to how you were brought up as a child too.

 

[ducman69]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

I've always paid my own way. Even now when my SO and I go out, I pay half of everything because he doesn't have any more money than I have so fair is fair.

Just know that you are very very special. African-American artists write songs about you. Independent womaaan!

But seriously though, the average girl I know expects the guy to pay everything going out, and if she were asked to pay the bill would be outraged... but us guys get that even when we're asked out by a girl, and we don't get mad when you don't open the door for us.

Women now work the same jobs, wear jeans, and have all the same rights, but are less demanding of equality when they are the first to get off a sinking ship or burning building, have drinks bought for em, have doors opened and chairs pulled out for them, can hit a man but not be hit back, given court preference in child custody cases, or pick up the tab when the waiter swings by after a meal. Y'all know its true!

 

[amberthe bobcat]

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Just know that you are very very special. African-American artists write songs about you. Independent womaaan!

But seriously though, the average girl I know expects the guy to pay everything going out, and if she were asked to pay the bill would be outraged... but us guys get that even when we're asked out by a girl, and we don't get mad when you don't open the door for us.

Women now work the same jobs, wear jeans, and have all the same rights, but are less demanding of equality when they are the first to get off a sinking ship or burning building, have drinks bought for em, have doors opened and chairs pulled out for them, can hit a man but not be hit back, given court preference in child custody cases, or pick up the tab when the waiter swings by after a meal. Y'all know its true!

So very true