Is fancy feast truly horrible for cats?

[remmiebrandt]

 
I really appreciate all the research you've done. I had no idea that all these ingredients were harmful. I thought I had spent a lot of time researching and it is frightening how much you need to be aware of to find a safe and healthy cat food. I know Tiki has the reputation of being one of the very best foods, I believe they are manufactured in a human grade facility The protein, fat and carb rations are very good,. My cats wouldn't eat it but I am going to try again, I have gotten them to eat Wellness chicken by dividing one can of FF into 5 dishes - putting it on top, i also put water in the cans i have just used - about one Tb per cat - and mix it in, Unfortunately Wellness has a high fat content.

One thing I have tried to do to avoid contamination problems is buy my canned food and keep it for about a month - hoping the cat sites and food warning programs will alert me to any problems. It is never ending but so worth all the work. Thank you again and keep posting what you learn

I hope I can help - I would like to see eventually a government funded group devoted to monitoring and regulating pet food. My dream I was actually disgusted when I started researching into their food and found it very disturbing that almost every can I picked up and investigated - there was at least one ingredient that was toxic or potentially poisonous.

 

[remmiebrandt]

 
Other than dental cleanings, what does your office advise for cat owners to do for their cats' teeth?

Every cat I've pulled off of kibble and put on canned either maintained weight or lost weight.  I never had to watch for calories like so many owners do, my obstacle was carbs.

I think the dental cleanings are more scams that suddenly vets learned they can charge for - I think in very, very few cases would the actual health of a cat be dependent on dental problems - I've rescued old cats that had no teeth and did just fine eating - lived to be 18 years old. I would be much more afraid of a bad reaction to the anesthia or antibiotic and fluids as I had one cat that became aplastic due to something that happened under anesthesia or from the antibiotic and then couldn't hold her medicine due to vomiting from too much zinc being introduced by the IV.

 

[remmiebrandt]

I just want to say how much easier it is for those of you who have kittens to get them used to all varieties of good healthy food so that they don't grow to be fussy & picky.
It can be stressful & expensive trying to transition older cats on to different foods.

Agreed and good advice. I am trying to get my boy of 11 off fancy feast now that I have found out how bad it is - the mendione  - the copper sulfate - the carageenan - I feel like I might as well have been feeding him poison. But he loves it so and does not want most of the other foods I have found which have far fewer toxic ingredients and are better for him. It is really hard. Whereas the stray cat I just took in will lap up the better foods and wants nothing to do with the kitty crack. I took them both off dry food - I can not find any that are healthy - but neither one really seem to miss that.

 

[remmiebrandt]

 
Other than dental cleanings, what does your office advise for cat owners to do for their cats' teeth?

Every cat I've pulled off of kibble and put on canned either maintained weight or lost weight.  I never had to watch for calories like so many owners do, my obstacle was carbs.

That's because the dry foods are mostly all carbs - cats don't need & can't properly metabolize carbs and that's why they gain weight on dry food.

 

[remmiebrandt]

Very good advice about not feeding fish. It can also lead to vitamine B deficiency because the thiaminase in fish breaks up the thiamine (vitamin B).

However, as others have mentioned, cats' teeth are not designed for chewing. And even if they were, chewing kibble to break tartar is as efficients as chewing pretzels or peanuts in humans to break tartar.

Regarding calories, 30 g of kibble are, on average, 100 calories. Most pate complete wet foods are 100 calories/ 100 grams (30 g = 1 oz).

I didn't know that about the fish - my cat loves shrimp which I give him as a treat - and salmon. I have also read in several places that dry food doesn't do a thing to help cat's teeth - if you are really concerned maybe you can see if your cat will let you brush its teeth.

 

[remmiebrandt]

 
Yes, the NO carageenan in the Grilled is good news. I (think) this must be a new thing as I'm pretty sure it used to, at least here in Canada

Purina (and other brands) reasoning is that shredded, chunky, etc., needs a binder to hold the food together. Whereas the pates don't require this ingredient as much. All of the FF pates should be carageenan-free as well.

Maybe if a few consumers banded together and spoke to Purina, perhaps they would consider doing away with the synthetic Vit K3 and use the K2 which is the naturally occurring one! ...

I would hope so but people have been complaining about Purina using Mendione since 2007 and they still use it - plus they use BHA and BHT in their treats and I even saw a package of whisker lickings with erthyquin - deadly preservative. So I'm not sure Purina much cares about pet health as it does profits. - and their foods are cheap and sell well so if the pets die 5 or 10 years before they should of organ failure or anemia or cancer they got from the food they're eating - nobody can prove its the food so why change a good thing? Not until consumers are educated and boycott buying foods that contain these ingredients will these huge big box conglomerates change their food ingredients - when they feel it in their pocket. You have better luck with smaller companies like tiki, fromm and firstmate. I tried writing to Halo since their spot's stew would be a great food but for some stupid reason they insisted in including garlic powder - even the aspca says even a tiny amount can be deadly - and they stand by their decision. I bought one can of lamb just to see how my cat reacted to a small sample - and when I opened it  - it reeked of garlic - i could actually smell garlic. I threw the whole can away and wouldn't try anything from that brand again. And these places are charging $1.50 - $2 for food that can be toxic to the animals it is made to feed. Can't comprehend this.

 

[remmiebrandt]

 
Fancy feast's two main ingredients are usually meat and liver, then meat by-products. That is good enough, believe me. I flat out refuse to pay 1.75 per can of cat food.

You will pay a lot more in vet fees eventually. Mendione is toxic. It is not metabolized by cats. It is not excreted. It builds up in their tissues. If you can not afford to pay for a better brand then giving a good home to a cat and feeding him what you can afford is the best you can do but it is not the best the cat food manufacturers can do and feeding them toxic poison that is affordable or leaving them in a shelter because you can't afford a non toxic brand - really isn't much of a choice for us. To me that really isn't a fair choice. Mendione, copper sulfate, carageenan, cranberries, yucca - it should all be illegal to be in pet food and we shouldn't have to pay more for a safe pet food than we spend on our own lunch!

 

[autumnrose74]

^^^ Yet you admit in another thread to feeding your cats the fish flavors of Tiki Cat "because the chicken ciontains copper sulfate. You think you have problems with that and the menadione, you haven't done any research on fish.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-fish-is-dangerous-for-cats/

The fish used in canned pet foods usually includes bones, and is high in phosphorus and magnesium, which can be an issue in cats with a history of urinary tract disorders or kidney disease. In practice, I have seen quite many cats develop urinary tract infections and blockages if they eat much fish–even boneless fish like canned tuna.* Many cats are sensitive or even allergic to fish; it is one of the top 3 most common feline food allergens.

* Fish-based foods contain high levels of histamine, a protein involved in allergic reactions.

* Predatory fish at the top of the food chain, such as tuna and salmon, may contain very elevated levels of heavy metals (including mercury) as well as PCBs, pesticides, and other toxins.
...

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Agreed and good advice. I am trying to get my boy of 11 off fancy feast now that I have found out how bad it is - the mendione  - the copper sulfate - the carageenan - I feel like I might as well have been feeding him poison. But he loves it so and does not want most of the other foods I have found which have far fewer toxic ingredients and are better for him. It is really hard. Whereas the stray cat I just took in will lap up the better foods and wants nothing to do with the kitty crack. I took them both off dry food - I can not find any that are healthy - but neither one really seem to miss that.

It's not impossible to transition older cats to another type of food, and it needn't be stressful. But it does take persistence and patience on the part of the pet owner. You can try using toppers of dehydrated fish, or parmesan cheese to entice your cat to eat a new food. Or, you can do a slow transition where you serve half Fancy Feast/half new food and gradually decrease the FF over time.

I have two older cats and one younger and was able to significantly decrease the amount of dry food they had been getting to replace with wet food. They now happily eat the wet food with no problem. Kibble is usually the most difficult food to transition cats from.

 
I would hope so but people have been complaining about Purina using Mendione since 2007 and they still use it - plus they use BHA and BHT in their treats and I even saw a package of whisker lickings with erthyquin - deadly preservative. So I'm not sure Purina much cares about pet health as it does profits. - and their foods are cheap and sell well so if the pets die 5 or 10 years before they should of organ failure or anemia or cancer they got from the food they're eating - nobody can prove its the food so why change a good thing? Not until consumers are educated and boycott buying foods that contain these ingredients will these huge big box conglomerates change their food ingredients - when they feel it in their pocket. You have better luck with smaller companies like tiki, fromm and firstmate. I tried writing to Halo since their spot's stew would be a great food but for some stupid reason they insisted in including garlic powder - even the aspca says even a tiny amount can be deadly - and they stand by their decision. I bought one can of lamb just to see how my cat reacted to a small sample - and when I opened it  - it reeked of garlic - i could actually smell garlic. I threw the whole can away and wouldn't try anything from that brand again. And these places are charging $1.50 - $2 for food that can be toxic to the animals it is made to feed. Can't comprehend this.

So why are you still feeding your cat Fancy Feast if you feel so strongly about Purina products? Could it be that you are doing what you have to do at this time, to ensure that your cat EATS? This is no different from other pet owners who are doing the best they can for their pets. No one wants to feed foods with questionable ingredients, but sometimes it comes down to a choice between one questionable ingredient and another. Regarding the complaints against Purina regarding menadione since 2007. Do you have any sources to support this?

I don't feed my cats much FF, but my female gets this on occasion. My cats have never gotten commercial 'treats' as they really don't need these things, or the extra calories they represent.

 

[ander35]

Getting rid of my cat? 

That is a bit extreme, don't you think?

Are you a veterinarian by the way? If not I will trust a vet, instead.

Here is some info from a vet for you:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/07/vitamin-k3-menadione-in-pet-food-is-it-safe/

 

[peaches08]

 
I think the dental cleanings are more scams that suddenly vets learned they can charge for - I think in very, very few cases would the actual health of a cat be dependent on dental problems - I've rescued old cats that had no teeth and did just fine eating - lived to be 18 years old. I would be much more afraid of a bad reaction to the anesthia or antibiotic and fluids as I had one cat that became aplastic due to something that happened under anesthesia or from the antibiotic and then couldn't hold her medicine due to vomiting from too much zinc being introduced by the IV.

I don't believe that all vets are conspiring to scam me.  As a matter of fact, I all but begged for a dental on the oldest of my 3 cats and my vet flat out said that he saw no point putting him under anesthesia over so little tartar. 

Having worked in an OR, I'm aware of anesthesia's risks with humans.  Cats have risks too.  I hope some people who's cats need work done do not read this and decide against it.

 

[autumnrose74]

 
Getting rid of my cat? 

That is a bit extreme, don't you think?

Are you a veterinarian by the way? If not I will trust a vet, instead.

Here is some info from a vet for you:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/07/vitamin-k3-menadione-in-pet-food-is-it-safe/

Interesting read. I may have to bookmark that site.

Who knew that having a cat would result in chemistry and biology lessons??! i thought I was done with those subjects!

 

[catspaw66]

 
Interesting read. I may have to bookmark that site.

Who knew that having a cat would result in chemistry and biology lessons??! i thought I was done with those subjects!

Don't forget the psychology aspect of trying to get your cat to eat better food.

 

[autumnrose74]

 
Don't forget the psychology aspect of trying to get your cat to eat better food.

Luckily, that's not something I have to deal with. My Shelly will eat wet food, and the only food she has rejected outright so far has been Natural Balance, and she's not too crazy about Wellness Turkey, but she has chowed down on all the other flavors I've tried.

 

[drbobcat]

As others have suggested it's pretty hard to over feed a kitten. They need a lot! Otherwise wet is better but dry is convenient and works for cats that like to grade. IMO some on this site are a little too hard on dry.

 

[peaches08]

...but dry is convenient and works for cats that like to grade. IMO some on this site are a little too hard on dry.

A big reason I'm against cats grazing on kibble is if/when diabetes develops.  It is difficult if not dangerous to administer most insulins to these cats.

 

[cocheezie]

 
A big reason I'm against cats grazing on kibble is if/when diabetes develops.  It is difficult if not dangerous to administer most insulins to these cats.

I agree. I have that problem. It is not easy to fix.

 

[autumnrose74]

! Otherwise wet is better but dry is convenient and works for cats that like to graze. IMO some on this site are a little too hard on dry.

Dry is convenient only for the owner, which is not a good enough reason to use it.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/free-feeding-food-cats-are-not-cows

As for being "too hard on dry," I suggest you read the following:

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/species-inappropriate-the-dangers-of-dry-food

It is very important to remove dry food from your cat's diet. This one change alone is a big step forward in improving your cat's health. Dry food, be it premium, prescription or "natural," harms your cat's health. It consists mostly of starch and carbohydrates — it must be, as it can't be manufactured and extruded otherwise. It is not the vital protein that your cat, an obligate carnivore, requires and is detrimental to health.¹

The problems with dry food are:

• It is far too low moisture content,
• It is far too high in carbohydrates,
• It contains protein from plant rather than animal sources.

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/feline-cystitis-and-bladderkidney-stones

With regard to overall kidney and bladder health, I cannot stress strongly enough how important water, water, water is in both the prevention and treatment of diseases involving this organ system.

When a cat is on a diet of water-depleted dry food, they produce a more highly concentrated urine, with higher urine specific gravity, and they produce a lower volume of urine which means that a higher concentration of crystals will be present in the urine. This increases the chance of these crystals forming life-threatening stones. The concentrated urine and the lack of volume production can also be very irritating to the lining of the bladder wall predisposing them to painful cystitis.

Please keep in mind that a cat has a very low thirst drive and is designed to get water with their food. A diet of canned food will keep a proper amount of water flowing through the urinary tract system and help maintain its health.

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/diabetes-and-obesity-preventable-epidemics
 

For all of our good intentions in bringing the cat into our homes as a pampered pet, we have done the species a tremendous disservice in providing its members a diet far more appropriate for a cow in a feedlot than an obligatory carnivore. Because of the food technology of dry food production, dry cat foods are loaded with carbohydrate from cereal. This carbohydrate is absolutely required in the extrusion process; dry pet foods are essentially breakfast cereal for pets with a little added meat meal for palatability. Further, because this cereal undergoes processing at high heat and pressure during extrusion, it becomes pre-digested and enters the pet's bloodstream essentially as "sugar." Nothing in the cat's evolutionary development could possibly have prepared it for a steady diet of this sugar laden "junk food."

Not all cereals are created equal, of course. Some have much higher glycemic indices than others, meaning they cause a greater rise in blood glucose when consumed and digested. Perhaps the most offensive of all cereals used in pet foods is corn, (from which corn syrup is derived, giving a good idea of how much sugar corn actually contains). Because it is plentiful and cheap in this country, corn is one of the favorite dry pet food cereals used by the industry. Sadly, even the most expensive, so-called premium dry pet foods contain high amounts of this ingredient.
An additional consideration is the cat's unique system of satiety signals from food. Logically, because the cat evolved in an environment rich in protein and fat, but deficient in carbohydrate, consumption of fat and protein evolved as the signal to the cat that it could cease intake. Consumption of carbohydrate, however, has a minimal effect on intake in the cat even as energy requirements are met and exceeded with this nutrient. Thus, not only is the cat relatively incapable of handling repetitive substantial carbohydrate loads of the kind represented by dry cat food, it is also unable to respond appropriately to that consumption with appetite satisfaction. The end result is cats that overeat, constantly flood their systems with glucose overloads, spiking repeated surges of insulin from their limited carnivore's pancreatic reserve, and become obese. For a large number of cats, their metabolic systems eventually become overwhelmed by this chain of events and its unremitting stress on the pancreas, resulting in diabetes.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/why-cats-need-canned-food-2/

Cats are true carnivores, requiring a meat-based diet for optimal health. Their natural diet is prey such as rodents, rabbits, lizards, insects, and birds. These prey consist primarily of water, protein and fat, with less than 10% carbohydrate (starch, sugar and fiber) content. 

Cats are exquisitely adapted to utilize protein and fat for energy. They are not at all like dogs and people, who can use carbohydrates directly for energy. Cats lack the metabolic pathway that we and dogs use for processing carbohydrates; in cats, excess carbs end up as body fat. Given that more than 53% of U.S. cats are now overweight or obese, the most commonly fed diets–dry kibble–are clearly not doing cats much good! Add to that a rising rate of feline diabetes–also considered by many to be caused by dry food–and it’s clear that we need to take a different approach to feline nutrition!

Dry food typically contains up to 50% carbohydrate, mostly as starch (the remainder is fiber). “Grain-free” foods may contain just as much carbohydrate in the form of starchy vegetables. “Low carb” dry foods may be as little as 20% carbohydrate, but the higher protein and fat make them higher in calories, and even more dehydrating. This is necessary because the equipment that makes dry food requires a high-starch, low-fat dough for proper processing. Cereal grains and vegetable starches provide an inexpensive and plentiful source of calories, which allows manufacturers to produce foods containing adequate calories at an affordable price. 

Another prominent feature of the cat’s natural diet is a high water content. Prey animals like rodents, lizards, and birds contain 65-70% water. Dry diets containing 10% water are completely unnatural to the cat.

Our feline friends descend from desert-dwelling wild cats who are well adapted to limited water resources. Their ultra-efficient kidneys are able to extract most of their moisture needs from their prey. However, the end result is that cats have a very low thirst drive, and will not drink water until they are up to 3% dehydrated (a level at which, clinically, a veterinarian would administer intravenous fluid therapy). Cats eating only dry food take in just half the moisture of a cat eating only canned food. This chronic dehydration may be a factor in kidney disease, and is known to be a major contributor to bladder disease (crystals, stones, FUS, FLUTD, cystitis).

 

[drbobcat]

 
Dry is convenient only for the owner, which is not a good enough reason to use it.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/free-feeding-food-cats-are-not-cows

As for being "too hard on dry," I suggest you read the following:

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/species-inappropriate-the-dangers-of-dry-food

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/feline-cystitis-and-bladderkidney-stones

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/diabetes-and-obesity-preventable-epidemics
 
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/why-cats-need-canned-food-2/

As I said, "WET" is better, but dry is not merely convenient for guardians.  Most cats clearly like it too.  If you want trouble, try leaving wet food out all day.  I can't believe how militant the anti-dry food people are.  You want quotes.  Here's one:  "Cats on dry food-only diets are slightly more prone to obesity and diabetes than cats who eat wet food. Part of this is due to the high carbohydrate levels in many kinds of kibble, and part is due to the free-choice feeding of dry food which gives cats 24-hour access to food." 

 

[autumnrose74]

 
As I said, "WET" is better, but dry is not merely convenient for guardians.  Most cats clearly like it too.  If you want trouble, try leaving wet food out all day.  I can't believe how militant the anti-dry food people are.  You want quotes.  Here's one:  "Cats on dry food-only diets are slightly more prone to obesity and diabetes than cats who eat wet food. Part of this is due to the high carbohydrate levels in many kinds of kibble, and part is due to the free-choice feeding of dry food which gives cats 24-hour access to food." 

A lot of us humans like junk food, fast food and soda. Does that make those good to eat on a regular basis? Dry food is nothing more than junk food for cats - if they didn't spray it with animal digest, cats wouldn't find it palatable. It's no different than caffeine and sugar for humans.

I don't leave any food out for my cat all day, or all night. She gets set mealtimes, around 6:00 AM and PM. She can't be free-fed because she was 14.5 pounds when I adopted her 3 months ago. I have no doubt that she was free-fed dry, and that is how she gained so much weight, because her body type and build do not indicate that she should be heavier than 9 or 10 pounds. Thanks to a healthier diet with scheduled feedings, she has dropped weight, gained a waistline, and she has more energy in her play sessions than she did 3 months ago.

It has nothing to do with being "militant" - the proof that dry food isn't anywhere close to what cats need to eat is out there, and you got an ample supply of it in my post. Maybe you ought to consider reading those links I posted, and you'll learn something outside of your current knowledge base. I'm not posting them for me, because I already learned and internalized this information over 6 months ago, before I even had a cat. I may be a first-time owner, but I did not walk into it blind, with no clue as to proper care and nutrition, the way a lot of people go about it. And that's probably one reason why Shelly ended up with me, instead of some other adopter who couldn't care less about what they fed her.

You do know that the quote in your post actually made MY point, don't you?