Introduction problems

[Columbine]

It doesn't seem as though actual guarding is going on at the moment - and I am watching closely. There have been a couple of instances (I can think of three occasions in total) where Asha has growled at Shad around the box. The first time she was taken by surprise, the second time I think they 'ran into' each other on the corridor (the main box is near the door to Asha's room) and the third time I think she wanted in when he was in there. The first instance was 7 days ago, and the last was 5 days ago. Since then, I've noticed that Asha is using her own box more often.

Shadow is a naturally cautious cat. I'm well aware of the risk of urinary and litter box issues, but forcing a situation that my mother is unhappy with could cause as many problems as it (potentially) solves - it would create a very tense, stressed atmosphere in the house (especially so as my mum gets very vocal when stressed or unhappy with a situation...just her way) which won't help anyone.

The time Shadow wanted Asha's door closed she wasn't even in that room...she was curled up on a bed at the other end of the house! It's not that Asha's actively guarding anywhere, just Shadow's natural caution.

Your advice is much appreciated, and if guarding were going on I would attempt to force the issue - mum would most likely be more accepting of a downstairs box if that were the case. I'm just trying to jump on things before they start.

Just wanted to clarify things a bit

 

[feralvr]

OH - A picture is worth a thousand words. :lol3: Yes - there is no room for another box and I completely understand the situation better now. Agreeing also, that stressing out mum will only exasperate cat's getting stressed out. So trying to fix the one issue may just as well cause another. You are on the right track here and doing a fabulous job juggling these issues and making it work. I would not worry about Shadow being a bit cautious about his box right now. Asha does not seem at all to be bossing him around nor being territorial about the litter box. Shadow will come to realize this as time goes and I don't think you need to worry about his past urinary health issue erupting again. Keeping things calm and quiet is best and you are doing that!!!!

 

[hey jude]

I have a suggestion that might help both you and Asha and make your introductions go much more smoothly.   I have posted previously about our feral rescue about a year ago.  When we rescued a feral kitten from our backyard, (Gracie) she was TOTALLY feral.  She was adorable, but terribly scared and defensive.  She actually bit me the first day we brought her in, as I had never handled a feral cat before, and I probably looked like a predator to her.  So after much on line research, I found a wonderful protocol to socializing ferals.  But the thing that I am most proud of is my idea to put up a regular screen door in the doorway of the bedroom where we were keeping her. We have 3 other cats, so she had to be isolated for several weeks and socialized before she could have any introductions.

We went to our Home Depot and purchased the cheapest framed screen door, the same kind you would have on your front or back door to the house, no extra hardware, just a white frame with the screen.  We took Gorilla tape or any strong duct tape, and just taped one whole side to the doorway frame from top to bottom, so it would swing open and closed.  That way you aren't making any holes in your woodwork.  Then I just put a strong piece of Velcro on the other side of the frame and doorway so it would stay closed.or you could just put something heavy at the bottom to keep it closed.  Make it swing out into your hallway. 

This way, even though our little feral, Gracie, still had her own dog crate to retreat into, she was no longer confined to a cage, could roam freely inside the room, and explore her new home.  This screen door gave her a window to our household comings and goings in order to accustom her to household noises such as TV, blow dryer, radio, etc., and the other cats could come up to the screen and see and smell her and she could do the same.  At first she stayed away from the door, but eventually they all played "footsies" under the screen door, getting to know each other safely.  By the time I was ready for actual introductions, it was a piece of cake.  I just took my most social guy in first and they hit it off instantly, a couple of hisses, but that's to be expected at first, but really easy introductions, mainly because they basically knew everything about each other already.

When my daughter adopted a 3-yr. old cat from an owner who passed away, we gave her this same screen door for one of her bedrooms, and her introductions to her other 3 cats went just as smoothly. I think it speeds up the introductions and makes everyone feel safer, including the owners!

If you want to give this a try, I think it beats keeping Asha in a cage.  Gracie was in a cage for a while only because she was so terribly wild and scared of humans, but then one day after much patience on our part, she walked out of it herself when she had the confidence and trust, but I still left her cage in the room as she liked to retreat back into it for assurance and nap times.

Let me know what you all think.

Judy

 

[Columbine]

Thank you very much for your input. I think Asha's beyond the screen door stage now (it wasn't a viable option in this instance as all the doorways in my house are arches - making it very hard to find a screen door to fit).

Anyway...Asha is moving freely and happily around the house. She mostly stays upstairs and Shad always did live mostly downstairs. The only real confrontation has been the isolated litter box incidents mentioned above.

For the first week Asha was crated when unsupervised as her room isn't as cat proof as I'd have liked. She then progressed to crating at night only, and is now free to move around her room at night. This stage will continue until she is spayed, healed, and both Shad and the dogs are 100% okay with her and vice versa.

Had my setup been different, I would definitely have looked seriously at the screen door option. It sounds as though Asha started out much tamer than your little one. You've done wonderfully with Gracie and she's lucky to have found you

 

[hey jude]

I have a suggestion that might help both you and Asha and make your introductions go much more smoothly.   I have posted previously about our feral rescue about a year ago.  When we rescued a feral kitten from our backyard, (Gracie) she was TOTALLY feral.  She was adorable, but terribly scared and defensive.  She actually bit me the first day we brought her in, as I had never handled a feral cat before, and I probably looked like a predator to her.  So after much on line research, I found a wonderful protocol to socializing ferals.  But the thing that I am most proud of is my idea to put up a regular screen door in the doorway of the bedroom where we were keeping her. We have 3 other cats, so she had to be isolated for several weeks and socialized before she could have any introductions.

We went to our Home Depot and purchased the cheapest framed screen door, the same kind you would have on your front or back door to the house, no extra hardware, just a white frame with the screen.  We took Gorilla tape or any strong duct tape, and just taped one whole side to the doorway frame from top to bottom, so it would swing open and closed.  That way you aren't making any holes in your woodwork.  Then I just put a strong piece of Velcro on the other side of the frame and doorway so it would stay closed.or you could just put something heavy at the bottom to keep it closed.  Make it swing out into your hallway. 

This way, even though our little feral, Gracie, still had her own dog crate to retreat into, she was no longer confined to a cage, could roam freely inside the room, and explore her new home.  This screen door gave her a window to our household comings and goings in order to accustom her to household noises such as TV, blow dryer, radio, etc., and the other cats could come up to the screen and see and smell her and she could do the same.  At first she stayed away from the door, but eventually they all played "footsies" under the screen door, getting to know each other safely.  By the time I was ready for actual introductions, it was a piece of cake.  I just took my most social guy in first and they hit it off instantly, a couple of hisses, but that's to be expected at first, but really easy introductions, mainly because they basically knew everything about each other already.

When my daughter adopted a 3-yr. old cat from an owner who passed away, we gave her this same screen door for one of her bedrooms, and her introductions to her other 3 cats went just as smoothly. I think it speeds up the introductions and makes everyone feel safer, including the owners!

If you want to give this a try, I think it beats keeping Asha in a cage.  Gracie was in a cage for a while only because she was so terribly wild and scared of humans, but then one day after much patience on our part, she walked out of it herself when she had the confidence and trust, but I still left her cage in the room as she liked to retreat back into it for assurance and nap times.

Let me know what you all think.

Judy

 

[hey jude]

I have a suggestion that might help both you and Asha and make your introductions go much more smoothly.   I have posted previously about our feral rescue about a year ago.  When we rescued a feral kitten from our backyard, (Gracie) she was TOTALLY feral.  She was adorable, but terribly scared and defensive.  She actually bit me the first day we brought her in, as I had never handled a feral cat before, and I probably looked like a predator to her.  So after much on line research, I found a wonderful protocol to socializing ferals.  But the thing that I am most proud of is my idea to put up a regular screen door in the doorway of the bedroom where we were keeping her. We have 3 other cats, so she had to be isolated for several weeks and socialized before she could have any introductions.

We went to our Home Depot and purchased the cheapest framed screen door, the same kind you would have on your front or back door to the house, no extra hardware, just a white frame with the screen.  We took Gorilla tape or any strong duct tape, and just taped one whole side to the doorway frame from top to bottom, so it would swing open and closed.  That way you aren't making any holes in your woodwork.  Then I just put a strong piece of Velcro on the other side of the frame and doorway so it would stay closed.or you could just put something heavy at the bottom to keep it closed.  Make it swing out into your hallway. 

This way, even though our little feral, Gracie, still had her own dog crate to retreat into, she was no longer confined to a cage, could roam freely inside the room, and explore her new home.  This screen door gave her a window to our household comings and goings in order to accustom her to household noises such as TV, blow dryer, radio, etc., and the other cats could come up to the screen and see and smell her and she could do the same.  At first she stayed away from the door, but eventually they all played "footsies" under the screen door, getting to know each other safely.  By the time I was ready for actual introductions, it was a piece of cake.  I just took my most social guy in first and they hit it off instantly, a couple of hisses, but that's to be expected at first, but really easy introductions, mainly because they basically knew everything about each other already.

When my daughter adopted a 3-yr. old cat from an owner who passed away, we gave her this same screen door for one of her bedrooms, and her introductions to her other 3 cats went just as smoothly. I think it speeds up the introductions and makes everyone feel safer, including the owners!

If you want to give this a try, I think it beats keeping Asha in a cage.  Gracie was in a cage for a while only because she was so terribly wild and scared of humans, but then one day after much patience on our part, she walked out of it herself when she had the confidence and trust, but I still left her cage in the room as she liked to retreat back into it for assurance and nap times.

Let me know what you all think.

Judy

So glad to hear all is working out for the whole fam! I can see that with an arched doorway the screen would pose a problem. Maybe it can help others in a similar situation with a square door. There's nothing worse than having your cats bully each other and there's nothing better than when they all show love for each other ,,keep up the good work!

 

[kstonya]

How is Asha. I have fostered many cats and have found it best to let them get together on their own time. As your house is large they can have their own space. I have installed shelves all the way around the living room and in to the bedroom with a hole in the wall between the two rooms. I would have the cats pick their spot and I let them get together as they want. I only get involved when the cat fights get intense. I have 3 cats that are over 13 yrs old. The other 2 I do not know their ages but they probably about the same age. I have 2 dogs a lab and a chi. My husbands cat would not get up on anything. She has managed to watch the other cats run the shelves and she has tried them too. We have cut little opening in several of the doors so the cats can get away from the Lab if they want. I had one cat years ago that had been bullied and I was told that when I brought him home to put him in one small room and keep him there for a week feed him and his potty and spend time with him then after a week let him venture out as he was ready. My cats have become friends on their own time. Let me know how your cat is doing.

 

[Columbine]

There have been no more litter box worries, and Shad seems to have got over his hesitance to come upstairs to use it. Looks like the Feliway diffuser was enough to tip the balance :cross:

Generally, Asha and Shadow have an unspoken agreement of 'you ignore me and I'll ignore you'. Asha occasionally comes downstairs and Shadow occasionally comes upstairs (not counting litter box visits). Shad hasn't been much of an upstairs cat for years anyway - I used to smoke, and my bedroom was the only room I'd smoke in. Shad was in love with cigarettes, and would come running when I lit up. If he got half a chance he'd lick the ashtray out too :confuse3: Since I quit, Shad's interest in upstairs has mysteriously waned :lol3:

Asha and Pixie (greyhound) are pretty much okay with each other now - Asha hisses if he startles her, but that's about it.

Asha and Leah (labrador) are another story. I thought they were getting better as they passed each other in the corridor without comment last night. However, Asha was sitting halfway up the ladder that leads to her safe space this morning when Leah came in. Leah went up to Asha and reached out to sniff her. After about 10 secs, Asha hissed, Leah growled softly and lunged forward, and Asha hissed some more and hit her on the muzzle. Needless to say, Leah retreated after that. I hope they'll work things out soon, but I think they need to sort it out themselves. As long as Asha doesn't act like prey I won't intervene...well, not unless Leah starts acting like prey :lol3:

 

[Columbine]

Just back from the vet. Asha's getting spayed next Wednesday

Her weight is now where it should be. She's looking really good. Only two issues: one of her front canines is dead. It looks as though she broke the tip off before I caught her and it's caused the tooth to die. No infection though, and it's perfectly strong. The vet said she's better of with a strong dead tooth than a gap. The other problem is the lump on the jaw. We think that's a hangover from an old infection (probably caused by ear mites). The lump and her ears will get thoroughly checked out whilst she's under.

Overall, good news I think. I just hope she doesn't come into heat this week :cross:

 

[feralvr]

Sounds like a very good vet check! Super on the news that the vet thinks she can have her spay surgery. Your doing such a good job with her. :bigthumb: I have known of cats and even a dog with a broken off canine tooth that did just fine and the tooth never needing to be extracted. Let's hope the lump is nothing more either. Surely the vet will have a closer look at that and her ears during surgery. This IS very good news!!! Next Wednesday can't come soon enough, right??!!! Hoping she doesn't go into heat before then. :cross:

 

[Columbine]

The vet has a hunch that the lump is just a hangover from an old infection - its unlikely to go, but if she's right it won't cause any problems either. I don't care about the lump from a cosmetic viewpoint - just want to be sure it's not going to be problematic for Asha.

Btw - no more litter box issues since the Feliway got plugged in

Asha explored the living room tonight. She got onto the back windowsill for the first time and was fascinated. The house is built into a hillside, so that windowsill is almost level with the garden path - its the closest Asha's been to seeing the outside ground.

She and Shad are still ostensibly ignoring each other, but something funny happened yesterday: Shadow always used to send his brother to organise the food for them both. Yesterday afternoon Asha went downstairs, then came back up a few minutes later and bugged me for food very insistently. I went down to find Shad waiting by the doorway to the living room - odd, as usually he waits in the middle of the room or at the other end (near the kitchen) until a servant comes down to feed him. I'm almost sure that he sent Asha to get food sorted for them both...

I really hope I'm right.

 

[feralvr]

She and Shad are still ostensibly ignoring each other, but something funny happened yesterday: Shadow always used to send his brother to organise the food for them both. Yesterday afternoon Asha went downstairs, then came back up a few minutes later and bugged me for food very insistently. I went down to find Shad waiting by the doorway to the living room - odd, as usually he waits in the middle of the room or at the other end (near the kitchen) until a servant comes down to feed him. I'm almost sure that he sent Asha to get food sorted for them both...

I really hope I'm right.

:lol3: Love this and I think you may be right on this one. Apparently they are not ignoring each other as much as you may assume! I swear, cats have a language that most of us can't even tap into. Very cute story and think Shad's new servant ringer is just as much into food as him. :bigthumb:

And. :high5: on the Feliway doing it's job. Feliway works really well in my home too. I don't always have one plugged in anymore. I will use a few plug-ins when I know something possibly stressful is going to happen OR if we go away for a few days. Love the stuff.

 

[Columbine]

Shad just came into my room and carried out a long inspection of Asha's scratching post. Asha was, and still is, in my lap. I think at first Shad wasn't fully aware Asha was in here. He was unsure when he saw her...big eyes on both sides, but no pupil dilation. They had direct eye contact. Shad backed off a little. I blinked at him, he blinked back, then Asha blinked at Shadow Sadly, Shad chose that moment to look away :doh3: Never mind. Good things are no pupil dilation, Asha didn't tense up, no fluffing up from either of them, Shad had a really good sniff of Asha's tree (which she uses for scratching multiple times a day...just wish she'd use it for a perch too...what's the point of a tree just under 2m high if she stays on the floor...grr...),and there was no sound or negative movement from either party

It's slow,but I think we're getting there.[emoji]128568[/emoji]

 

[2ketzels]

just wondering if, in the UK, you have those little padded triangular houses. I have 2 cats and they each have one --  of course each is  far from the other housie and each has its back to the corner so kitty can look out yet not be ambushed. the padded triangular house's pad can be washed & fits one sleeping cat even if one is chunky. these house come in a range of prints & are of soft material yet give comfort and a feeling of safety.     

 

[Columbine]

Yep, we have them over here. Shadow hates them :lol3: He's a big boy - british blue shorthair. No idea what he weighs...just that he's heavy, even though he doesn't look a bit overweight. Asha has two of them. She loved them at first, but as she's gained in confidence her favourite beds are (in order) my lap, a king size bed, my electric adjustable bed ( complete with memory foam topper...she has to fight the greyhound for that one! ), and a giant silk cushion that she claimed as hers within a fortnight of moving in. (No truth in the rumour that my animals are spoilt... )

I agree those houses are a great idea...but not if the cats won't use them

 

[Columbine]

Asha had an adventure this morning. I wasn't good last night, so my electric bed was raised to help me get comfortable enough to sleep. Mum went into my room and put it down this morning, to make sure the cats didn't get in to investigate. Just one problem - she didn't check before she lowered the bed. I came up with Asha's food a little while later, but Asha was nowhere to be seen. Major panic (we're having some work done, and there was a slim chance that Asha had got out ). I suddenly thought to check under my bed. I'd been calling and calling with no response, but when I raised the bed I saw a frightened pair of eyes. Asha had jumped in to explore and couldn't get out again! As soon as the bed was raised enough she popped out and went running to her room. No harm done - just one dusty cat! She was extra loving this morning though...

 

[feralvr]

OH my goodness!!!!!!!!! How scary for you to not be able to find her and how scary for her to be trapped under the electric bed!!! All ends well though. :bigthumb: Well, better this rather than her escaping outside while the workers were coming and going! phew. and that you are feeling better today.

 

[Columbine]

Thanks feralvr

Asha's getting bolder with downstairs....just so long as she can have a short pre - emptive hiss at any animal who looks at her. I'm trying to let them get on with it now - there does come a point when they have to sort things out for themselves.

Despite it 'eating' her, Asha's been showing a lot of interest in the base of my bed, almost as though she wants to get back under there for another explore. There's no way she can get under there unless the bed is raised though, no matter how hard she tries! I think we'll just have to be sure to check it thoroughly before lowering the matress in future.

 

[Columbine]

Now I'm really confused...just had a call from the vets - Asha's already been spayed :confuse3: So I found a spayed cat with no microchip living in the cellars at the yard. I don't know what to think. Logically, if she was someone's pet she'd have been chipped already (although it's only a legal requirement for dogs in the uk). Is it possible she was spayed and then dumped (not that that makes any sense). Have I got her age wrong? How do you tell the age of a cat between 6/7months and one year old? (we thought she was 8/9 months when we got her on March 2nd - vet originally thought 1 year, then said she looked younger as she gained weight. I've based my guess on her looks and behaviour)

Sorry so many questions. Just totally thrown by this news...

 

[feralvr]

OH WOW! And now this explains why she has not gone into heat! What to do now? Nothing!!! Not to worry and actually I am thrilled to know that someone has spayed/neutered the farm cats where she was found OR yes, she was dumped/abandoned. You took her in, she is yours now, and you have given her a much safer and secure home indoors. IMO - there is nothing more to do about it. IF you feel it necessary, you could go back to whoever owns the farm and mention this to them and ask if they know of who may have spayed her? Was she dumped.... yes, most likely. People dump cats at farms all the time thinking they will be able to survive there on mice and that the farm owners will be willing to take them on OR may not even notice them.

It is hard to age cats sometimes but you can usually tell if they are young. No matter if she is 7 months or a year, really. All cats have their adult teeth by 7 months so it can be a guessing game after that as far as age goes especially if they are still young. Usually, we can tell an older cat though. This is actually REALLY great news!! It is all done and this also explains why things have gone so well with introductions !!! I said a big "AH-HA" upon seeing your update. All of my concerns about Asha's hormones going awry and disrupting proper introductions were moot. :lol3: