Inexperienced and lack of support from local rescues - Please help.

[red top rescue]

DronTAL gets all the worms (pyrantel pamoate + praziquantel).  DronCIT gets only the tapes (praziquantel only).

Biheldon is a combination wormer with the same ingredients as Drontal, that is made and marketed in Bulgaria but can be purchased here through eBay (so far Big Pharma has not been able to stop it!)  I bought some and it works fine.  Again, you have to have some strong tasting food that your ferals will gobble down quickly because praziquantel evidently doesn't taste great, but it comes in easily crumbling tablets that you can break up to the appropriate size and mix with food.  Prices vary widely on eBay because many U.S. sellers have purchased it for resale and are selling it a few tablets at a time for the same price that you can get a factory package of 30 from a seller in Bulgaria.  I bought a package of 30 tablets from a Bulgarian distributor for $9.00 (which includes free shipping), and that's enough for 60 cats.  I don't have 60 cats, so it will last me awhile.  In fact I may order another package for next year, just in case shipping them to the U.S. becomes illegal in the future.  Here is the seller I bought from, shipped fast, tablets work, all is well.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Biheldon-ta...eaflet-/221866376329?var=&hash=item33a8443c89

 

[moxiewild]

So then that would be what I would use for the ferals, and then find a DronCIT alternative for my tame guys who are receiving Revolution? Thank you for the clarification on the Drontal vs. Droncit, I figured that was the difference but didn't know the ingredient names to differentiate (pyrantel pamoate and praziquantel).

The crushing up the pill is another issue I am currently having with everyone except DC. Beau has a history of spitting out liquids I syringe him. The Drontal they gave me was a blue liquid and so they suggested just mixing it into food - they declined to mention the taste is apparently horrid which I later found out by sifting through TCS threads. Beau did not get all of the wormer and now I'm not sure what to do as I don't want to risk overdosing him on something like that.

Additionally, other than DC, all three of my tame kitties, and also Hobo and Puff, do not ever tend to finish their food and sometimes have a fair bit left over. So I am struggling getting the Capstar into Hazel, Jack, and Beau. To make sure they consumed all of it, I decided to offer it in a small snack and settled on using babyfood. All three loved it the first time... and all three refused to touch it the second time! I have no clue what happened, it was the same exact jar as before!

If it comes down to it, I can syringe feed them the baby food/capstar/other medication mixture if I have to (though I would like to avoid it) but that's not something I can do with Hobo and Puff. So any suggestions for something to mix Program and Capstar in to make sure they consume all of it in some sort of snack, and what to do for something like Drontal that is especially unappealing to cats?

If only they were all as easy as DC, my feline dishwasher!


 

 

[moxiewild]

DC Update:

I have tamed the beast.

And man, is he a lover! I was going to post about all of the ways in which he has come around the past week and a half (technically most of it was just the past four days) but now that would seem a bit redundant at this point.

The past week and a half (particularly the past 5 days) I have been working with DC very aggressively (by "aggressively" I mean calmly, patiently, compassionately, but very consistently!) and he has made huge leaps forward.

It all culminated to the moment when I went to his room in the middle of my writing my post when he, with the helpful motivation of treats, began rubbing on my knee and elbow. Eventually I took a deep breath and pet him along his back. Soon enough he was excitedly rubbing on me (I think more in an effort to get treats, though!). I went upstairs to tell my boyfriend and shortly after went back to his room without teats. After a couple of minutes he started doing it again and I pet him a lot more this time! Twice he just hit the ground in front of me exposing his belly

I think he began to become overstimulated, though I'm not entirely sure. Between rubbing me and me petting him, he would rub on everything in the vicinity and was clearly very happy. But my verbal encouragement in addition to all of that seemed to make him more frantic almost. He was still happy and everything, but it seemed like his energy became almost too overwhelmed with good things, if that makes sense. So I started speaking softer and slower and slowly stopped petting him and just let him rub around me.

Then he played with the wand toy for the second time ever and much more than last time. He still isn't quite sure what to do with it though, and seems confused that it gets up to run/fly away after he catches it, haha.

I was on cloud nine when all of this happened! I couldn't even believe it, but I have been spending so much time with him the past few days and really working with him and giving him treats. Yesterday he took treats from my hand, but I never would have guessed we'd be here by the next day!

I'll conclude with some photos from earlier today during one of our "exercises". This was the first time I could really tell he wanted to rub on me, but was too unsure. He eventually seemed to commit to it but decided to sniff my knee first  and ended up bolting to his hiding spot, which he hasn't done in about a week now I guess he smelled one of the other kitties or my dogs and decided he didn't like it!

The first photo is of DC "yelling" at me (PLEASE excuse the litter - I am trying to keep up with it daily but he dumps out so much every time that it is very difficult to keep remotely clean. I cannot wait to vacuum!!!!!!)

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• moxiewild
• Jun 15, 2016

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• moxiewild
• Jun 15, 2016

 

[ondine]

Oh, what a love.  He was waiting until he was sure of you.  Keep it up and he'll be a regular old house cat sooner than you think

And don't mind the litter!  We're all used to it.  I swear I spend more time sweeping/vacuuming litter and washing cat dishes than I do on any other house keeping!

 

[moxiewild]

He seems just about like a housecat already! Takes him a couple of seconds to warm up, but once he does, he doesn't stop! It's just constant rubbing, flopping over, asking for pets. I cannot believe it! We still have some work to do, because there are moments when he's skittish, but he's been really good about coming right back when he runs off now. I just hope that this behavior can transfer over to other people aside from me.

I have a lot of TNR questions now...




New Momma Cat and Kittens:

The woman and her sister with the retirement community cats trapped a kitten in a nearby area. It was an adorable grey kitten with blue eyes about 6 (probably closer to 7) weeks old. I spent a couple of days actively helping them try to find a home or rescue to take the little guy, but it didn't go so well.

I eventually told them to take him to the county shelter. It was a last resort sort of thing, but a good one. The shelter is truly amazing with nearly a 100% adoption rate, an adoption van, and a strong social media presence. This is the same shelter that has a positive attitude toward ferals and TNR and helped me a lot with my guys. A few weeks ago they were able to adopt out every single kitten and cat, and all but one dog, so I am as confident as I can be about this guy, but we will be sure to follow up.

He looks so scared

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• moxiewild
• Jun 16, 2016

Now it's a question about the other kittens and momma cat. The woman said she appears to have "packed up" and left. Wouldn't she be likely to stay by her food source and territory? Could trapping her kitten have caused her to leave?






The 7 Retirement Community Cats:

In addition to that, it looks like one of the 7 cats also has kittens, but unfortunately they appear to be older... maybe close to 9 weeks? The sisters saw a woman come and feed the cats, but couldn't get to her in time.  I asked the sisters if she has a feeding station set up or if she leaves bowls or water or anything. They found some pans so I told them to tape a note on them explaining we would like to TNR the cats if they aren't already and to call me.

But apparently the pans were actually from employees there who leave out left overs for the cats a few times a week. No employees or management have any idea about this woman, and she doesn't appear to have a feeding station.

So I have no idea how to track this woman down and make contact to ask her to coordinate with me by withholding food so that we can trap. I'm not too sure what to do.

Hopefully we will be able to contact her, but if not, do we still have a chance at trapping them even if they're being regularly fed? Will they still be tempted by fish and fried chicken?

And what about the kittens? At nine weeks, I know they will now be much more difficult to socialize, and the shelter may not have resources for that. I am at my capacity here and the sisters and their mom are also pretty overloaded with cats and dogs.

Would it be best to just TNR them?

At what age should we have them neutered? I think they need to be 2 lbs if I remember correctly, but do we still have a little time before they are able to actually reproduce? And at what point is it safe for a new mom to be spayed?







Strays/Ferals by Hobo and Puff:

LASTLY, no one seems to know if the cats that are hanging out at my friend's house are someone's pet. I think it's safe to assume they are not since they come by after midnight and scavenge the trash. So far there are at least two.

We have one more week until it has been 4 weeks of consistent confinement. Hobo and Puff are finally coming around - Hobo is meowing for food again, both are coming out much more to watch birds and squirrels, my friend can pet them a little while they eat, and Puff has gone back to his ritual of somewhat dominating and rubbing all over Hobo near meal time:

HP.jpg

• moxiewild
• Jun 16, 2016

HP1.jpg

• moxiewild
• Jun 16, 2016

 

Would you fancy an eye patch, Hobo?

HP2.jpg

• moxiewild
• Jun 16, 2016

Perhaps a mustache, instead?

HP3.jpg

• moxiewild
• Jun 16, 2016

My fear, however, is if these cats happen to be unneutered males. If they become territorial or instigate fights with Hobo and/or Puff, I am afraid they could run them off after we release them. I'm not sure how to deal with it because even if we neutered them on Monday, they could still display these behaviors for many weeks, right?

My friend really, really wants to release these guys and I don't think I could talk her into keeping them in the kennel any longer... maybe a week at most. Hobo is very territorial and always used to run off every cat that came around the old place, but I don't think he's been here long enough, or had access to outside of the kennel even, to feel territorial enough to stand his ground like he did before.

What should  I do here?




How to I prioritize all of these cats? Despite the kittens happening over at the senior living facility, I feel like I should probably take care of any cats living by Hobo and Puff so that we can decrease the risk of someone running them off.

At the same time... there are obviously a lot of unneutered cats at the retirement community and a lot of kittens about to hit puberty. I just don't know how to manage this. If it wasn't for my vet bills this month (Jack is having surgery on the 27th that will be about $2,000), I could actually swing doing just about all of them.

Right now I'll struggle to even get two done this month :/

Any advice or suggestions on how to go about all of this?

For the record, there are no rescues or groups that will help with this. I've tried countless times.

 

 

[ondine]

It might behoove you to look into starting a rescue group yourself.  That way, you can take donations and the vets may work with you to help more cats.

I would definitely talk to the people at the retirement home and see if anyone there might help or have contacts.

But for the time being, I think I would work on the actively producing cats.  

 

[moxiewild]

I think it's time to release Hobo and Puff from their enclosure. They have been doing really well - in fact, Puff has meowed for the first time and is letting my friend pet him more than he ever has before. Hobo does not like change, but has started meowing at meal time again. For whatever reason, he chooses to spend most of his time in between the pallets and comes out for food, to use the scratching post and watch the birds and squirrels if there's any activity going on, but that's it. Both are coming out when she calls them now again.

I was hoping to go over there to release them tomorrow or Sunday, but apparently last night they howled all night long. They've never done this before. I'm not sure if something in particular upset them or what, but my friend thinks they're unhappy (and she obviously wants to sleep - the kennel is only two feet away from her bedroom window), and is wanting to let them out today. I'm still trying to talk her into waiting until tomorrow, but I'm not sure if she will.

So my question is how do we go about this and what can we expect from them?

I was thinking we could open the door and let them come out on their own. I also think it would be best to wait to take the kennel down and leave it up with the door open, so that they can still have a "home base" for the first few days and explore the yard and sheds at their own pace.

In the kennel, they currently have 5 different shelters. Two of the shelters are their winter shelters that I did my best to de-insulate. We weren't going to use these, but I think it made the transition easier, as it is the only "home" they've ever known.

Puff uses his shelter all the time but Hobo really has only preferred the pallets. Regardless, they are now familiar with all of the shelters in the kennel now, the lawn chair in there, their scratching post, their cooling pads. So I was thinking when we first let them out we could have one of the very familiar winter shelters set up somewhere, along with another item from the kennel. And then maybe gradually over the weekend take out more and more and place the items in the yard/on the porch/in the shed.

I'm trying to find a balance between indicating to them that this (the yard) is also their home, without changing too much too fast. I have no idea if this is a good idea or is even necessary, so any input would be appreciated. We are not worried about Puff leaving - just Hobo, since again, he doesn't like change, hasn't come around quite as much, is more skittish, and has also preferred shelter under the pallets, which will not be staying (so we can't use his current shelter of choice as an indicator for "home" in the yard).

- Would it be best the first day or two to lock them up back in the kennel just over night? Maybe just the first night? Or not at all?

- Should we feed them outside of the kennel right away, or give it a day?

- What can we expect upon their release? Will they be unwilling to leave the kennel, will they curiously explore, will they run and hide somewhere?

Also, just to mention, the other day I saw a neighbor out and asked about the cats that had been hanging around. Apparently they are a neighbors, and the man believed they were fixed. They also haven't been hanging around the past week, so I think we're okay.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated! I am very, very nervous about releasing them

 

[ondine]

Remind me - is there a reason you have to take the kennel down at all?  If they've been happy in there, can they stay?

I think the yowling may have been because other cats have come around - perhaps the neighbor's cats?

If the kennel has to go, I would definitely leave it in place for at least a week - door open.  I would feed them where they've been eating and gradually move the fodd are closer and closer to where you plan to feed them next.

If you can, leave their shelters where they are - even after the kennel is gone.  No sense in disrupting everything.

 

[moxiewild]

Yes, there are several reasons.

1.The kennel belongs to my parents.

2. My friend also doesn't want them to be in an enclosure. She is a renter, and the landlords do not know about the cats. They said one pet is fine, and hesitantly said two if needed. She already has a dog, so the cats make three. The landlords are actually rescuers, so if caught, I think they'll be understanding (and of course, if all else fails, I will take them in), but we want them to stay under the radar to an extent and as it is, the top of the kennel can be seen over the fence from the front yard.

3. I also don't think a 10x10 kennel is sufficient space for the two of them long term and I think they will really like the yard. It is very, very big, and the bigger shed will be a great new "home base" for them during winter and other inclement weather.

The area is so large that they might not try to leave the backyard once settled. If it were me, I'd build a large enclosure, but it's not up to me and it's just not an ideal situation. :/

I was thinking perhaps the cats or some other wildlife might have disturbed them, as well. They've been doing so well lately that I find it odd that they would suddenly "howl" due to being confined. But supposedly her son (who stays up late when they come around) hasn't seen the cats for over a week now. He always notices them because one looks like Puff so it always startles him thinking that Puff escaped.

Okay, so leave the enclosure for at least a week. I think I can convince her to keep it up for at least a week.

And we shouldn't move any of the shelters at all? We actually don't want them to remain where they are, unfortunately. Remember, we were kind of forced to pick this particular spot because of the drainage issue, and it is in a very awkward place. We'd like shelters on her back porch and also in the big shed... how do we go about making that transition?

Food is also difficult. Because her yard is so big, it is going to be difficult to gradually move the food. We were hoping once out she'll be able to call them like normal and they'll just come to the back porch. Is that wishful thinking?

Also, is there a preferred time of day for release? Like before or after a meal time, or in the morning when they're less active during the day? And should we lock them up at night for the first day or two?

 

[ondine]

I understand now, thanks!  I would open the door at a time when someone is there to watch, just to have someone there to see where they go if they run.

So, about the food and shelters.  If they have five, can you move one or two to the porch?  Move another one every day until they are all where you want them.

I suggested moving the food gradually but if that won't work, it won't work.  If she thinks they won't have any trouble remembering the porch as their dining room, she could try to just start feeding them up there.  How far away is the kennel from her porch?  he can put the food down and call them.  Once they see no food in the kennel, they'll look for it.

I think its up to you as to whether you lock them n at night.  Unless you think there are other animals who can trap them inside the kennel, I would leave the door open.

It sounds like you've thought things through very thoroughly.  This is one of those times when you take all the precautions, you can do what you think best.  If the cats are already familiar with their yard, it will only be a matter of time before they "own" the whole place.

 

[moxiewild]

Hobo and Puff Update:

Things are not going well post-release. We may be forced to relocate them to a barn with a new caretaker and I'm pretty broken up over it. Here is the new thread I started about what's been happening: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/322537/...at-risk-of-being-relocated-again#post_4055734

If any of y'all have any insight into the situation, I would greatly appreciate it. I am at such a loss right now