indoor or outdoor kitty?????whats best!!

[smitten4kittens]

I can't agree with the idea that keeping them indoors is just for the owner's selfish reasons. I'm pretty sure if I asked my cat if he wants to get hit by a car he would say no

 . It's not just about me, I don't want THEM to suffer.

Anyway, I'm not saying you shouldn't have your cats outdoors. I'm just trying to explain why some of us like them indoors only. I figure you started this thread topic because you were curious about that.

 

[callista]

Wait, wait, wait... how are the reasons for keeping our cats indoors "selfish"? Yes, we want our cats to live longer, but do you really think a cat prefers to die young? Given that they can have the joy of the hunt, social interaction with friendly cats and humans, novelty and excitement, and exploration, all safely at home, what are they really missing when they go out? Cats can even walk on leashes or go outside in enclosures, if they really like the fresh air.

My cat Tiny got out once. He is a feral rescue. I found him crouching and scared in a neighbor's bush. When I picked him up, he was trembling and he tried to push his head under my arm, and Tiny is not a particularly snuggly cat. He hates it out there, and it's not because he doesn't know what he's missing. It's because he knows exactly what he was rescued from. When I rescued him, he had fleas and tapeworms. He was small for his age. He spent a lot of time hiding. Now that he's indoors, he has grown into a sleek, muscular cat who considers me a friend, loves the patches of sun coming in through the window, and uses the hallway as a racetrack.

Human beings can live indoors. We've been living indoors about as long as cats have been. If we can be domesticated, why not cats? Cats moved in to keep control of mice when humans were still figuring out the concept of "city". In fact, domestication of cats and development of agriculture and thus cities all happened simultaneously. They had to. To live in cities, humans had to grow food. To grow food, they had to store it. And to store it, they had to keep small animals out of it. Without cats and other domesticated hunting animals to live with us and hunt the small prey that tries to eat our stored food, we'd never have managed civilization. Sure, the humans had the intelligence, but the cats had the hunting skills. In a very real way, both humans and cats were involved in inventing the concept of "indoors", the security of food storage, and the safety of being surrounded by sturdy walls. Why should we deny the cats the fruits of their labor, just because they are cats and we are humans? They would not have become domesticated if we had not moved indoors. Domestic cats are an artificial species, created by the proliferation of prey in human habitations; our houses and barns are their natural habitat. They do not need to go outdoors to be happy any more than we do.

If your cat likes the outdoors and you are in a very safe area, then I don't think it is wrong to let your cat outside. But in my area--no. In most places, it is too dangerous. Things have changed a lot since the pyramids. We invented cars and poisons. Instead of seeing cats as sacred, we created a culture where some people place no value on the life of an animal. Just because some cats survive doesn't mean that it's a chance worth taking. We have to protect the animals we domesticated from the dangerous environment we created.

 

[smitten4kittens]

p
did you even watch the same video....lol...nothing you have said shows indoor is better at all...maybe it is for you....people who keep thier cats in are doing it for themselves more so then the cat ...you dont want to loose your cat,for it to get hurt because your heart would break...not have to worry at all where your cat is..you might have to have to pay more vet bills...you would have to wait til the cats ready to come in..no matter how late it was or cold..etc....its easier to keep it indoors for you..to save your feelings make your life easier...and thats the bottom line...i dont doubt you care for your cats...but you prefer keeping them in for an easier life...for you..a stress free life for you ....seriously..those who are trying to make a case for indoor only cats, make outside your back yard is designed to destroy all cats...full of wild beasts,disease and mad men who torture cats....that may well be the case where you live..but its not for me here..god if it was i wouldn't leave the house myself.....lol....i respect traffic may be worse in your area then mine...or you live where wild animals wander..or disease is an issue with cats...but thats your problem not everyone else's..non of the above issues apply to where i live at all...sorry but that just the way it is.

I don't think it's selfish at all. I was referring to this post where it says ..".people who keep their cats in are doing it for themselves more so then the cat...You don't want to lose your cat , for it to get hurt, because your heart would break."

Callista, I agree with you 100%,  I think it's taking good care of your cat because you don't want to see THEM suffer. While I  would be heartbroken, I keep them inside for their own good, not mine.

 

[stealthkitty]

dogs...what?least these dogs actualie get to experiance the outdoors on some level wether working dogs or not..so why shouldn't cats get some freedom...

I don't see what's so confusing about this concept... if a domestic animal like a dog can have a happy life, experiencing the outdoors while still staying inside its owner's property or being taken for a regular walk, why not a cat?

All sorts of domesticated animals enjoy their entire lives within the limits of their owner's property--that is what being "domesticated" means. The Merriam-Webster dictionary offers this as one of its definitions of "domesticate":

to adapt (an animal or plant) to life in intimate association with and to the advantage of humans

Domesticated cats do not have a need to be "wild" anymore. They need humans to take care of them now--why do you think cats in feral colonies are so sickly and so short-lived? Cats simply do not need to roam in order to be a cat. Do some enjoy it? Of course. But as I said in an earlier post, cats often want things that are not good for them. No, cats are not babies, but neither are they small lions or tigers, or even some type of house-broken wildcat. Let us not romanticize them.

I understand that, in your area, your neighbors probably won't mind your cat on their property. But you seem so unwilling to concede that keeping a cat from trespassing is a valid reason not to let them wander, and that a cat can be happy inside its own backyard. Why is it so important that a cat be given absolute freedom? Do you truly believe that a cat must roam in order to feel fulfilled? If so, then why are so many house cats so content sitting on a windowsill and watching the birds? Or out exploring in their owner's backyard? You might argue that it is because some cats don't know what they're missing--but that is one of my points. A cat can be happy and content, in all its cat-like glory, even if it never gets to roam the countryside (even a safe countryside) because it just doesn't know the difference. You are the only one that will know, and it is that knowledge that impels you to let your cat out--it is the way you feel about the subject that moves you to make the decision, not some piece of knowledge that the rest of us are missing. It's OK that you feel that way; but it doesn't mean that the rest of us are wrong.

Might your cat enjoy being outside? Probably, and it's lovely that you will let the decision be his to make. Just be responsible about it. And please do not be condescending to people who keep their cats within safer limits. You asked us once to not be judgmental about your decision to let your cat out; you must return the favor and not think that all who keep them within limits are overprotective, selfish and incapable of distinguishing their cats from babies.

 

[Willowy]

-why do you think cats in feral colonies are so sickly and so short-lived?

Um. They aren't, at least not those part of a TNRed, well-managed colony. That's one reason I dislike the "keep 'em all inside" mentality. . .I think it's damaging to ferals and the TNR effort. Ferals who are part of a managed colony are quite healthy, and average lifespan is around 12 years. Obviously some will meet with accidents, but all in all they do pretty well. I'm not saying it's the same for tame cats---they have the disadvantage of trusting humans so it's easier for cruel people to hurt them ---but I could't let that one pass .

 

[ldg]

Um. They aren't, at least not those part of a TNRed, well-managed colony. That's one reason I dislike the "keep 'em all inside" mentality. . .I think it's damaging to ferals and the TNR effort. Ferals who are part of a managed colony are quite healthy, and average lifespan is around 12 years. Obviously some will meet with accidents, but all in all they do pretty well. I'm not saying it's the same for tame cats---they have the disadvantage of trusting humans so it's easier for cruel people to hurt them ---but I could't let that one pass .

But let's do distinguish between feral cats and our pets, or our rescued/socialized feral cats.

Truly feral cats belong outdoors, or as working kitties on farms, etc. But these aren't pet cats, which is why they don't belong in shelters to begin with.

 

[stealthkitty]

-why do you think cats in feral colonies are so sickly and so short-lived?

Um. They aren't, at least not those part of a TNRed, well-managed colony. That's one reason I dislike the "keep 'em all inside" mentality. . .I think it's damaging to ferals and the TNR effort. Ferals who are part of a managed colony are quite healthy, and average lifespan is around 12 years. Obviously some will meet with accidents, but all in all they do pretty well. I'm not saying it's the same for tame cats---they have the disadvantage of trusting humans so it's easier for cruel people to hurt them ---but I could't let that one pass

.

But that's my point. It's the human intervention that allows them to be healthier. I agree that it is good for cats to be outside; but to let them freely wander anywhere is a different story.

I should have made it clearer that I wasn't including colonies that are being looked after by someone; only ones that are truly on their own.

 

[otto]

Jennie knows what she's missing. She was a stray for many months, or longer, before I rescued her. Once she came forever home, at first she had absolutely no interest in going outside. I take my cats out into a fenced small yard, wearing harnesses, supervised only. For a long time she had no desire to come out with me and the other cats. She did, finally, start joining us. But only once she was sure that that was all it was, a safe enclosed space, with her human standing by, and an open door she could run back into, where she didn't have to worry about the big bad world out there. It's more like an extra roo

I have some friends who let their cat out. They live in a secluded area with a long driveway, very far from the road. Their cat, a rescued stray already obviously "streetwise" when he showed up at their door, (they adopted him, had him neutered etc) disappeared for five days and when he finally showed up he was broken. Emaciated, dragging his back legs, his jaw shattered. What it must have cost him, to get himself home. With extensive surgery he has the use of his legs, and what's left of his teeth. The friends, even over a year later, still complain about the vet bill to fix him. And he still goes out. He also has to be treated monthly for fleas, and de-wormed every three months.

I only take my cats out in the warm months. They NEVER ask to go out. But they know the word "out", and when it's nice weather, and I say "You want to go out?" they will follow me down and line up to get their harnesses put on. But, they never show any desire to go out at any other time.

They have a very active mentally stimulating life with me, inside where they are safe and healthy.

 

[dejolane]

JeniLee,

My cats have alot being indoors. But  until next week they don't  have a cat tree right now. They are fed,loved and they do look outside though a glass sliding patio door. I don't feel it is mean to keep my cats indoor. But I do take them outside on a leash 1 at a time for some fresh air. I'm not cruel and I do care about my cats.

dejolane

 

[tick-n-thistle]

I vote to let him outside!  Sure, there are dangers out there, but if he's unhappy indoors, what kind of life is that?  Let him out if he wants to go, let him back in when he asks to come in - let him live the life he desires!

 

[stella123]

wow...think your the first person to say anything like that so far....cheers ..lol

 

[stella123]

i think its great you get them outside...even on a leash..although it should be a cat harness really...i am sure your cats are happy indoors..and if there are too many wild dangerous animals or busy traffic etc..then thats best for your cats to stay inside.

but i find the debate on this subject seems to be keeping cats indoors is better....for you as thier owner...not the cats themselves...this isn't aimed directly at you trick..but i find owners think about thier needs and feelings so much more then thier cats...''it would break my heart if i lost my cat'' is one quote...''there is cat disease,fleas,and tics oustside''meaning this would cost too much at the vets etc...i find people who have indoor cats spend a fortune on cat toys,climbing trees,scratch posts...catnip..all kinds of things that they think keep a cat content and happy....they try to simulate the outside world..inside there homes....which is all well and good..but cats will always enjoy real tree's tp climb and real grass to roll in...etc..its natural and in thier true nature..not the domestic nature we create....sure your cats love you as you love them....we have to agree to dis-agree ...and see it from all angles

 

[ldg]

but i find the debate on this subject seems to be keeping cats indoors is better....for you as thier owner...not the cats themselves...this isn't aimed directly at you trick..but i find owners think about thier needs and feelings so much more then thier cats...''it would break my heart if i lost my cat'' is one quote...''there is cat disease,fleas,and tics oustside''meaning this would cost too much at the vets etc...

No, it's not that it costs too much at the vet. It means people don't want to treat their cats with poison to prevent the parasites, or they don't want their cats to get sick with any number of problems from anything they would be exposed to. If you've never had a cat with T. Foetus, coccidia, giardia, etc., then you don't worry about it. If you have, you do. If you've never watched a cat die from antifreeze poisoning, you don't necessarily worry about it. If you have, you definitely do. There's not much worse of a death than that. FeLV is a horrible disease, devastating for the kitty. Tics carry a number of diseases, some of which can be difficult to treat.

i find people who have indoor cats spend a fortune on cat toys,climbing trees,scratch posts...catnip..all kinds of things that they think keep a cat content and happy....they try to simulate the outside world..inside there homes....which is all well and good..but cats will always enjoy real tree's tp climb and real grass to roll in...etc..its natural and in thier true nature..not the domestic nature we create....sure your cats love you as you love them....we have to agree to dis-agree ...and see it from all angles

I keep my cats indoors, but I don't have the ability to provide an enclosure for them to go out. If I could, I would.

Like I said before, it seems the real question you're asking in this thread is whether or not to let your kitty roam. With an enclosed backyard that can easily be made cat-proof to prevent your cat from roaming, he can enjoy the outside with a large measure of protection. I can't see there being any justification for allowing him to roam.

 

[stealthkitty]

wow...think your the first person to say anything like that so far....cheers ..lol

Stella, I get the impression that you aren't reading our posts very carefully. Others here have said something similar to the poster to whom you are replying.

You say we need to see it from all angles; but I think you are the one that is not seeing it from all angles, since you insist that the only reason someone would choose to keep a cat inside is purely for their own emotional and financial benefit.

 

[stella123]

ferral cats are simply homeless cats...my mum use to have a cat and she would go away for a week and leave it outside...the nieghbour would feed the cat twice a day and there was a cat shelter outside...my mum did this for 15 years...and lived next to an active railway track..the cat died of age related illness...

ferral cats don't trust humans because they have no need too..they fend for themselves...thats not to say some do get ill or hurt ...

but domestic cats are not all fluffy fur and cute nose's..they have the same instincts..but trust humans more...normaly only the hand that feeds them really..i see cats all the time...sitting on the porch or ouside thier home..but if i try and stoke them they run away..or duck under parked car etc...not all domesticated cats trust all humans at all..just the ones they bond with...fact.

some cats i agree are treated like a baby..not a cat..and may be a little too trusting or a bit dim...but thats only a few.

i had two cats years ago..one tabby called little bean and another jet black one called raven....little bean was like a baby and very friendly with everyont..but never went further then my back gardon..she use to bring me snails and worms as gifts..yukk...but raven was the hunter the wild one..she only let you touch her if she said it was ok...she would go hunting for two days sometimes and come back with huge rats almost her size..she was a very leab cat..little mean was more of a chunky cat....not all cats are the same...my two where the exact oppisite...bith lived long happy lives in thier own way....i think my tabby might have had a little brain damage from birth..but she was still happiest indoors...raven would destroy my house trying to get out....in the end we fitted a catflap..which suited us all.....not all cats are thick or that trusting...your cat..you know it best..so you have to let the cat decide if its indoor or outdoor..and look after it when its in your home...most cats will have a happier life outdoors with the nice warm home to come back too when it suits them...some cats will venture no further then your back door....if you can let them out and have no huge dangers where you are....let them out..they will love you that little bit more when they decide to come home..they will have missed you...xx

 

[feralvr]

cats may well use the same area to go toilet..but not twice in the same place in that area....watch your cats indoors with the litter tray..you will see this.

Both my indoor and feral outdoor cats use the same place to eliminate. My indoor cats go in the exact same place each and every time they use the litter box. I know who's pee is who's and who's poop is who's. I have witnessed my outdoor feral cats using the exact same spot to eliminate over and over. Marking - that is another story, then of course they never go in the same place twice. Might be your cats are marking.

 

[feralvr]

i think its great you get them outside...even on a leash..although it should be a cat harness really...i am sure your cats are happy indoors..and if there are too many wild dangerous animals or busy traffic etc..then thats best for your cats to stay inside.
but i find the debate on this subject seems to be keeping cats indoors is better....for you as thier owner...not the cats themselves...this isn't aimed directly at you trick..but i find owners think about thier needs and feelings so much more then thier cats...''it would break my heart if i lost my cat'' is one quote...''there is cat disease,fleas,and tics oustside''meaning this would cost too much at the vets etc...i find people who have indoor cats spend a fortune on cat toys,climbing trees,scratch posts...catnip..all kinds of things that they think keep a cat content and happy....they try to simulate the outside world..inside there homes....which is all well and good..but cats will always enjoy real tree's tp climb and real grass to roll in...etc..its natural and in thier true nature..not the domestic nature we create....sure your cats love you as you love them....we have to agree to dis-agree ...and see it from all angles

I have been around the block a time or two in my years and have seen many, many horrific things happen to cats, feral and domestic, that live or have access to the outdoors. Sights that will haunt me forever in my mind. Most everyone who posted has already listed the many possibilities that await your indoor cat so I won't delve into that list but it is long. I for one, would never, ever risk that for one of my cats and that is why I keep my cats indoor only. I do bring the outdoors in. Is it expensive to purchase cat trees, yes. But they last forever. I find that playing with my cats daily with interactive toys gives them that predator game they love so much and in the safety of our own home. I find that I have a very deep bond with my cats because of the time I spend doting on them, feeding them, playing with them and grooming them in the safety of my own home as opposed to opening the door and they are gone for the day hopefully to return that evening. They are happy, very happy cats and cats love routines. That is just one of the many benefits of keeping cats indoors, the special bond you build. A howling, meowing cat begging at the door to get outside is not bonding with their owner. A cat howling at the dining room china cabinet (where I keep my special cat toys) is relating to me and asking me to participate in play. To me, that is really special. The other benefit and the main benefit I keep my cats indoors is because, I personally, would never get over if I let a cat outside and it never returned. The percentage of something possibly happeneing?? are they low?? possibly, but the risk is still there and for me it is 100% not worth the risk. And for the people who have lost indoor cats because they have let them outside, the percentage is 100% loss, guilt, utter sadness, a grief that never goes away. I know that my cats appreciate the life I give them and they benefit from the security, stability, stressfree living of being kept indoors.

 

[sivyaleah]

Stella, I get the impression that you aren't reading our posts very carefully. Others here have said something similar to the poster to whom you are replying.

You say we need to see it from all angles; but I think you are the one that is not seeing it from all angles, since you insist that the only reason someone would choose to keep a cat inside is purely for their own emotional and financial benefit.

Iz called "trolling".  I'm sure this thread will wind up somewhere around 20 pages or so before people get tired of it.

(I've been around the internet block too long to stay involved in this).

 

[stealthkitty]

Iz called "trolling".  I'm sure this thread will wind up somewhere around 20 pages or so before people get tired of it.

(I've been around the internet block too long to stay involved in this).

LOL, I guess I'm still an innocent; but I did reach this conclusion earlier today. No other explanation.

 

[stella123]

pmsl.....trolling?????lol....come on guys stop being so nasty and agree to dis-agree