I'm wondering about replies here towards dry food

[just mike]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

The reality is that vets get just a couple hours of training in nutrition in their vet training - the focus is on the medical rather than nutrition. You will likely find a very small percentage of vets know anything about nutrition and the ones that do have taken additional courses/learning to get that information. Therefore, I personally would not change vets or leave a good vet just because they don't have food/nutrition training. I can always get that information myself by doing the research.

I had no idea vets only got a couple of hours of nutrition in their vet training. That is interesting information to research. IMO a good vet will already know about feline hydration but now, as I've had to do on several occasions (from posts such as yours and from good people, with interesting information like you), I have to find research this subject myself.

I know that in rural areas some people have very few options when it comes to veterinary care in their areas. Perhaps I am biased to a certain point because the Waltham Center for Pet Nutrition has my back. I have a lot of information at my fingertips and maybe take it for granted.

This is just an example of the info I can get in just seconds:
*Note - I am not plugging Nutro or Waltham and I am not wishing to start a discussion on product ingredients, wet vs. dry, or raw in this thread. This is just an example of basic information I would think any vet would be able to give a cat parent.

Question: "How much wet and dry foods should i feed my pet?

According to levels shown to be beneficial in WALTHAM studies, the following proportions of wet and dry food are recommended for mixed feeding programs that support:

Weight Management: At least 1/3 of the total daily volume should be fed as wet food.

Urinary Tract Health: At least 3/4 of the total daily volume fed should be fed as wet food.

Are you telling me that a vet would have to research this because it may, or may not, be included in their educational curriculum? It's kind of mind boggling to me.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by NutroMike

I had no idea vets only got a couple of hours of nutrition in their vet training. That is interesting information to research. IMO a good vet will already know about feline hydration but now, as I've had to do on several occasions (from posts such as yours and from good people, with interesting information like you), I have to find research this subject myself.

I know that in rural areas some people have very few options when it comes to veterinary care in their areas. Perhaps I am biased to a certain point because the Waltham Center for Pet Nutrition has my back. I have a lot of information at my fingertips and maybe take it for granted.

This is just an example of the info I can get in just seconds:
*Note - I am not plugging Nutro or Waltham and I am not wishing to start a discussion on product ingredients, wet vs. dry, or raw in this thread. This is just an example of basic information I would think any vet would be able to give a cat parent.

Question: "How much wet and dry foods should i feed my pet?

According to levels shown to be beneficial in WALTHAM studies, the following proportions of wet and dry food are recommended for mixed feeding programs that support:

Weight Management: At least 1/3 of the total daily volume should be fed as wet food.

Urinary Tract Health: At least 3/4 of the total daily volume fed should be fed as wet food.

Are you telling me that a vet would have to research this because it may, or may not, be included in their educational curriculum? It's kind of mind boggling to me.

As mind boggling as it may be, it is unfortunately the way it is. And the company that gives them the couple hour course is usually Hills as another poster mentioned. And no, I'm not telling you what a vet would have to research regarding wet and dry feeding at all - not sure where you got that from my post.

My vet at the last place I lived actually took extra-curricular nutrition courses.

As for dehydration, that would be more of a medical issue IMO and yes, most vets should certainly have a handle on that.

 

[elayman]

Originally Posted by NutroMike

I had no idea vets only got a couple of hours of nutrition in their vet training. That is interesting information to research. IMO a good vet will already know about feline hydration but now, as I've had to do on several occasions (from posts such as yours and from good people, with interesting information like you), I have to find research this subject myself.

I know that in rural areas some people have very few options when it comes to veterinary care in their areas.

The urban-area clinic vets I was referring to DO understand, of course, the importance of hydration from a disease perspective - namely that a well hydrated cat is a cat without a urinary tract bacteria accumulating bacteria and struvite crystals or other toxins that can form blockages, infections, bladder and kidney stones etc. Which is why cats with kidney or urinary tract disease require all-wet or Royal Canin/SD dry prescription diets that encourage greater water consumption.

What vets don't routinely stress is a wellness plan or prevention strategies for these issues beyond the "importance" of all cats having ready access to fresh water daily. At least I was never informed that getting a cat to drink enough water to stay properly hydrated can be a challenge because they don't have a well-defined thirst mechanism. Or, that there is a strong link between feeding a dry diet and the occurrence of bladder crystals...

When the subject of nutrition did come up during some initial visits related to a diarrhea problem, the doctors weren't even familiar with the Natural Balance Pet Foods company as a name, never mind the particular premium formula I had been using. Anything "complete and balanced" was fine by them. So I basically blame both sides for not being educated enough to compare brands in terms of their content and ability to control urinary tract/bladder infections in cats.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by elayman

The urban-area clinic vets I was referring to DO understand, of course, the importance of hydration from a disease perspective - namely that a well hydrated cat is a cat without a urinary tract bacteria accumulating bacteria and struvite crystals or other toxins that can form blockages, infections, bladder and kidney stones etc. Which is why cats with kidney or urinary tract disease require all-wet or Royal Canin/SD dry prescription diets that encourage greater water consumption.

What vets don't routinely stress is a wellness plan or prevention strategies for these issues beyond the "importance" of all cats having ready access to fresh water daily. At least I was never informed that getting a cat to drink enough water to stay properly hydrated can be a challenge because they don't have a well-defined thirst mechanism. Or, that there is a strong link between feeding a dry diet and the occurrence of bladder crystals...

When the subject of nutrition did come up during some initial visits related to a diarrhea problem, the doctors weren't even familiar with the Natural Balance Pet Foods company as a name, never mind the particular premium formula I had been using. Anything "complete and balanced" was fine by them. So I basically blame both sides for not being educated enough to compare brands in terms of their content and ability to control urinary tract/bladder infections in cats.

Exactly! But they will have Science Diet in their clinic and "prescribe" it because that is the company that does the couple hour nutrition training.

Don't get me wrong - there are instances when those special formulas are needed if the kitty has a health problem so they have their place.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Exactly! But they will have Science Diet in their clinic and "prescribe" it because that is the company that does the couple hour nutrition training.

Don't get me wrong - there are instances when those special formulas are needed if the kitty has a health problem so they have their place.

Just to clarify, Hills Prescription Diet is not Science Diet.

While both are made by Hills, Science Diet is a grocery store food. Hills Prescription Diets are very different, and are made the way they are to target specific conditions, and that is why they are prescribed, in most instances.

If a pet owner doesn't want to use Hills they can ask the vet to either get in a different brand of prescription food or write a prescription so the customer can buy the other brand somewhere else.

Most brands, including Hills, offer both canned and dry versions of their prescription diets.

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by elayman

The urban-area clinic vets I was referring to DO understand, of course, the importance of hydration from a disease perspective - namely that a well hydrated cat is a cat without a urinary tract bacteria accumulating bacteria and struvite crystals or other toxins that can form blockages, infections, bladder and kidney stones etc. Which is why cats with kidney or urinary tract disease require all-wet or Royal Canin/SD dry prescription diets that encourage greater water consumption.

What vets don't routinely stress is a wellness plan or prevention strategies for these issues beyond the "importance" of all cats having ready access to fresh water daily. At least I was never informed that getting a cat to drink enough water to stay properly hydrated can be a challenge because they don't have a well-defined thirst mechanism. Or, that there is a strong link between feeding a dry diet and the occurrence of bladder crystals...

When the subject of nutrition did come up during some initial visits related to a diarrhea problem, the doctors weren't even familiar with the Natural Balance Pet Foods company as a name, never mind the particular premium formula I had been using. Anything "complete and balanced" was fine by them. So I basically blame both sides for not being educated enough to compare brands in terms of their content and ability to control urinary tract/bladder infections in cats.

Quite an eyeopener of a thread people. Thanks for all the information. I feel really fortunate to have the vet that I do.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by otto

Just to clarify, Hills Prescription Diet is not Science Diet.

While both are made by Hills, Science Diet is a grocery store food. Hills Prescription Diets are very different, and are made the way they are to target specific conditions, and that is why they are prescribed, in most instances.

If a pet owner doesn't want to use Hills they can ask the vet to either get in a different brand of prescription food or write a prescription so the customer can buy the other brand somewhere else.

Most brands, including Hills, offer both canned and dry versions of their prescription diets.

Actually, I am aware they are two different things and my post was confusing - my apologies. The main point I was trying to actually make is that vets just don't get nutrition training.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Actually, I am aware they are two different things and my post was confusing - my apologies. The main point I was trying to actually make is that vets just don't get nutrition training.

I just think it's important to clarify that when I see people call Hills Prescription Diet "Science Diet".

The Prescription Diets are different yes, but my point is they aren't called "Science Diet".

I'm not at all surprised that you know the difference but many don't, so I am compelled to speak up when I see Prescription Diet incorrectly called Science Diet.

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by otto

I just think it's important to clarify that when I see people call Hills Prescription Diet "Science Diet".

The Prescription Diets are different yes, but my point is they aren't called "Science Diet".

I'm not at all surprised that you know the difference but many don't, so I am compelled to speak up when I see Prescription Diet incorrectly called Science Diet.

No worries - thus my apology for the confusion. It is important that folks know the difference so good post!

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by otto \t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t
\t\t\t\tI just think it's important to clarify that when I see people call Hills Prescription Diet "Science Diet".

The Prescription Diets are different yes, but my point is they aren't called "Science Diet".

I'm not at all surprised that you know the difference but many don't, so I am compelled to speak up when I see Prescription Diet incorrectly called Science Diet.

Originally Posted by Yosemite

No worries - thus my apology for the confusion. It is important that folks know the difference so good post!

I think clarification is important regarding prescription diets. Royal Canin also puts out a prescription diet. Some consumers become very confused on the issue when trying to find the correct food. In particularly when they are buying it for the first time. When asking for the food it is important for the consumer to ask for prescription diet, bet it Hills or Royal Canin.

 

[sweetpea24]

I agree that most vets do not get much training in nutrition but my peeve is how they are taught. Some schools have courses sponsored by Hills and thus, the students will only learn from research done by Hills and about their foods. And I'm sure they do get a basic education about the difference between carnivores and omnivores and what nutrients cats and dogs require.

What irks me about some vets is that they know nothing about foods that are on the market today. One of the vets at the clinic where I work told a client, who feeds Beneful to her dog, that whatever hills food he recommended had the same stuff as Beneful. So basically, he was saying the hills food was full of crap. I don't want to be told that the food I'm feeding my dog or cats is crap and that I should be feeding this food. Tell me why; what makes hills better than their current food? Rx foods are essential; no doubt about that. But I see nothing wrong with a client doing their own research and trying to find a food with better ingredients that might do the same job. Unfortunately, some vets get their back up. IMO, caring for my pet should be a collaborative effort. I'm not paying someone to shove their education down my throat. Just because I didn't spend half my life in school does not mean I'm not intelligent enough to try and find options that suit my pet. No offense to vets; I have the utmost respect for most of them - just that I think animal care should be animal-centred.

I also agree that much treatment today is reactive which is the premise of allopathy. I wish more focus was put on preventative measures (I guess more on the homeopathic side) such as educating a new pet owner about optimal nutrition and care. I believe that integrative medicine (a mix of allopathic and homeopathic medicine) is the way to go.

Although wet food is optimal, it does not guarantee a cat will be free of urinary blockages, crystals, etc. Certain ingredients or nutrients can contribute to these problems. The problem with dry food is that it contains no moisture in it so cats will not drink enough to compensate. And it's processed so much that the true level of nutrition is questionable at best. It often leads to obesity because the body doesn't have to really work to process it; it's already processed. Canned food is processed as well but it is more digestible and contains much needed moisture. However, I understand that in today's society, convenience is necessary and kibble serves this need.

 

[yosemite]

My feelings on this issue are that if my cat is sick, I want a vet who knows medical issues first and foremost. If I have to do my own research on food quality and feeding then so be it. Nutrition is important, yes, but medical issues take priority. Many people feed their pets, and have been feeding pets, less than quality food for years and their animals are fine. What we feed our pets is often a personal choice on the part of the owner - some want to feed best quality food and can afford it, others cannot afford it.

Sometimes a prescription diet is needed and the owner can either take their vet's advice on this matter or they can do their own research and find a comparable non-prescription food which will cost them less than what the vet sells in their clinic.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

My feelings on this issue are that if my cat is sick, I want a vet who knows medical issues first and foremost. If I have to do my own research on food quality and feeding then so be it. Nutrition is important, yes, but medical issues take priority. Many people feed their pets, and have been feeding pets, less than quality food for years and their animals are fine. What we feed our pets is often a personal choice on the part of the owner - some want to feed best quality food and can afford it, others cannot afford it.

Sometimes a prescription diet is needed and the owner can either take their vet's advice on this matter or they can do their own research and find a comparable non-prescription food which will cost them less than what the vet sells in their clinic.

especially the bolded part.

As for foods that cost less than prescription foods, well, Mazy's Prescription c/d is the least expensive diet in this house. She costs very little to feed compared to the other cats who do not eat prescription food!

<edit> My vet is very open to learning from me. She doesn't have a lot of time to devote to searching the internet for info on pet foods. She has a husband and two young children and many pets of her own. She already comes into the clinic on her day off, besides. (I always worry she will get burned out) When I tell her things I've researched she often takes notes. She then can do a little research on what I've said, or look at the links I've given her, so she can pass the info on to other clients.

However she IS who recommended I feed Wellness to my cats...about 5 years ago, so I know she tries to keep up.

 

[lostmary]

so much information. I've learned a lot from everyone. No it's time for me to take what I've learned and apply it. I free feed dry, and all my girls are looking good so I'm going to continue to do that, keeping my eye on their waistline. lol...I will give them their wet food in the evening. They really look forward to it and it a great bonding time for all of us. I know all my girls drink water as I watch them do it every day. I even put ice out for the barn kids during the summer so they have cold water when it's so hot. They really look forward to this treat.

I know everyone has their own opinion and that is what I asked for. They only way to make a good decision is to have many facts to learn from. I really appreciate your help and I hope no one had their feeling hurt during this discussion. We all want to do what we think is best for out kids and no one here would do anything that didn't help their cats. Thank you all

Mary

 

[buckeye204]

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Don't worry about it as long as you're feeding them quality foods.

Some cats have issues with dry and do better on all wet, many more do fine on all dry or a combination of dry and wet meals. All of mine get a combination - more towards 2/3rds wet to 1/3rd dry daily.

You'll see a lot of people on here try to promote their preferred way as the only way. Sometimes that doesn't work for all cats - such as not all cats doing well on grain free, or some high quality foods (like wellness) that don't settle well with some kitties, etc.
Filter what you read through your logic and experience. Are your cats healthy? Is your vet happy with how they look? No stool issues? and so on. If they're healthy and the food you're using works, stick with it. Change, especially drastic ones, to diet can make some cats sick.

I agree with you. If your cat does well on what you feed him, stay with it. I too would get confused and think I was not doing what was best for Woody. But as long as he is happy and healthy, then I will feed him what he likes. He is on TOTW and I found out I can't mix it with other premium dry foods, he throws up if I do. If I decided to switch him, I put it in a little bowl beside his feeder.