I need help with Akodo - he's an aggressive player

[mservant]

That sounds like great progress already.  Do be prepared for ups and downs as this can take a lot of time, and to see change already is very postitive.  So many behaviours can alter and find level ground that all are happier with once you get to know each other and ways of communicating.

I'm afraid Mouse is a very quiet cat so I am not able to give any advice from experience here.  It could be that when he was a kitten his family were very vocal when playing and play hunting and that is why he makes the sounds, or it could be his way of communicating to you when he does or does not want you to join in.  His posture and facial expressions will also give you clues as to which message he is giving you so as to avoid getting in to that cycle of him attacking again.  

Looking forward to further updates from you on how things go. 

 

[xisare]

Today something amazing happened!

When I came home from work, Akodo as always refues to be scratched in the ears, but I laid in the bad with my laptop to relax a bit (crappy day at work) and he came by himself and laid in a big ball of fur between me and the laptop. He let me pet him, scratch his ear and ever purred at me. And for like 20 mintues! 

He has never let me pet him more than 2 or three times before starting a prey high (he lets my husband more, le loves to rest overthe PC while he's working - or over the keyboard XD) so I felt amazing today. I was tempted to try to brush him, but I decided not to push it.

Still, after that he pounced on me again, but that was partially my fault. I had been playing with him (fishing rod toy) for half an hour and it looks it was not enough. Really, this cat does not know the word tired... And earlier he pounced on my husband's feet while he was sleeping, scaring him and making kick in reflex. He managed not to hit Akodo but he ran away anyway.

Still, after the last pounce he calmed down pretty quicky and now he's sleeping a few feet away from us. He does not like when he can't see us at night

 

[mservant]

Ha ha, Akido has found the same strategy as Mouse - if the human is busy ignoring them and paying attention only to the laptop then position yourself directly between the human and this strange object of desire, block the view and pin down the arms so they are not able to type any more.  

    This is good, Akido is learning that the way to get your attention is to allow you to stroke and pet him, and once he has you captivated he can con you in to more play. 

   It took Mouse way longer than Akido do master this but I remember how happy I was to get my first cat lap time! 

    They sound very alike our guys, just that Mouse is a few years older and calmed down a bit.  I definitely think you are making progress with his behaviour and getting to know each other, this is great.

When you say he can't see you at night, do you shut him out of your room at night?   What does he do if you do shut him out of the room you are in?

 

[xisare]

We can't shut him out, we live in a studio. But does never sleep where he can't see us. In the colder days, he used to curl up besides me but now I assume is too hot for that. The bad thing about doind that is the he does not like when I hug him so I was left with my arm in a akward position to not disturb him and not suffer a soft warning bite.

Sometimes, when he's too hyper we put him in the batroom.

He cries a bit and then curls just to the other side of the door, and we open the door he rushes out and just curls in a corner where he can see us.

Another update:

We bought the Sentry calming spray, Pecto ws out of stock of the Feliway one. We can see some change but he clearly does not like the chamomille aroma. We would run to a corner as soon as I use it and would come back only when the odor is not as strong. He seems calmer, and less agressive (though he keeps being so), How often to do you use it, twice a day? more often?

Also, today he found it would be a good idea to wake me up for his breakfast biting my feet (very softly, but still startled me)... at 4:43 Am... X.X

 

[mservant]

LoL, the foot biting is a common kitty trick.  Very mean.  As is selecting the most prized location on the bed and then remaining glued to the spot regardless of any human presence....  It is amazing we cat companions ever manage to sleep in our beds, or get up in the morning without permanent nerve damage to limbs we have had to trap in evil positions all night just because kitty would be disturbed if we moved!   I used to sleep with a sheet tucked in all round my bed (other than the head end of course) and then what ever bed cover over the sheet - to stop any fangs or paws reaching in under the covers to hunt my fingers or toes.  I also went for a pretty close woven cotton duvet with cotton wadding filling which meant that even in hot weather my critter's fangs didn't puncture through the duvet and reach my skin.  I could still feel his bite but at least it was safe and I didn't need to respond and inadvertently encourage him....   Until I got him familiar with the idea I didn't like my face being bitten when I was in bed I used to have to keep my head and face under the duvet and hold it down with my hands - hands well tucked under the duvet as well.  

I am glad Akido is not shut out of your space when you sleep, it sounds like he would be very anxious if he was.  I think it is common for cats to like to know where all their humans are at night.  Mouse is like a little sheep dog who likes his humans where he can keep an eye on all at once.  The first time I had people staying over night here and in what was my guest bedroom he took about 3 hours to settle:  he went from my room and up on my bed to look at me, and then to theirs, back and forth for hours.  He couldn't cope with us not being in the same room and the same bed poor little guy.  It took about 3 nights for him to settle, and then he took to laying in the hall, right between the two bedroom doors so he would know if anyone moved.   I now have lodgers and when one of them is up at night he will sit outside their door in case it opens (and if they happen to open their door he races in to the kitchen and starts meowing pathetically).  Mostly he is now happy to come and sleep on my bed once everyone is settled so he has got used to the idea he can't see everyone all the time, but it took about a year of having people here all the time.  He follows me about like a little shadow and hates being shut on the other side of a door.

For the calming spray - it is usual for the spray scent to need time to settle before the cat will find it reassuring and respond.  I'm not familiar with the Sentry one but I imagine it is similar in that way to the Feliway one.  I wouldn't suggest using it more than twice a day, and to use it perhaps half an hour or so before you think it is going to be needed.  If it has a positive effect on him it is probably worth investing in one of the plug in infusers which have a more constant effect on the environment.  You can use them for as long as the fluid takes to evaporate, and if you see a change in his behaviour again when it is empty then get a refill.  With Mouse I used two before I got the impression he was reassured enough to stop using.    If you get the plug in pheromone you can keep the spray for things like vet trips and transport, or if you have guests coming round and you think Akido might get stressed.

 

[misterwhiskers]

My cat does the same thing. He also pinches the skin on my calves...doesn't bite, just pinches. Ouch! When he does this I hold him down, showing my dominance. Obviously this trick works (note sarcasm).

So now I'm keeping toys around, and try to distract him.

You're paying attention to your coffee and not to him. He sees where your eyes are and they aren't on him. I'm thinking my cat does it for the same reason, though maybe I've just raised a spoiled brat. Sigh.

 

[mservant]

My cat does the same thing. He also pinches the skin on my calves...doesn't bite, just pinches. Ouch! When he does this I hold him down, showing my dominance. Obviously this trick works (note sarcasm).

So now I'm keeping toys around, and try to distract him.

You're paying attention to your coffee and not to him. He sees where your eyes are and they aren't on him. I'm thinking my cat does it for the same reason, though maybe I've just raised a spoiled brat. Sigh.

   Well, if you have raised a spoiled brat you're not the only one!  

    

Love the hold - down technique.  Heh heh, I use it with Mouse because that's what his fur-mom did to show him she'd had enough of his head pouncing play.  I have to qualify here that Mouse is NOT a normal cat, he is some kind of alien cat impersonator who loves his belly being rubbed, his throat being kissed and takes being pinned on his back paws up as a message that his favourite snuggles are about to happen.   Much as I would love it if Akodo had the same submissive response to being rolled over and pinned on his back - I have to warn you that if you decide to test this out do so with great caution and only after he has been played out to panting on the floor stage at least twice so he can hardly move! 

 

      He likes his snuggles so much he learned to lay on his back with paws up and crooked over looking cute as an alternative to his biting and pouncing.   I am one very lucky cat companion.   

 

[xisare]

You're lucky indeed.

Akodo shows his belly when he actually gets we're annoyed as if trying to say "I'm sooorrrryyyy" but he does not let us pet him there. Also my husband pins him on his back when he's had enoguh of his rough play. Akodo tries to fight it for some seconds before he resigns himself. My husband releases him and he scampers to a corner for a while. It works... for a day I don't do it because I'm a wussy that is scared of pinning him too hard.

I'll try the pinning down technique, today he woke us up at 5 AM and he bit me pretty hard... the third time . He did not break the skin, but it hurt for a long time.

Sentry is already out... lasted two days. Not enough to see big changes so we're dobutful of buying the Feliway.

By the way... how do get your cat used to be groomed? We have a Furminator for short hair and the first weeks Akodo let me groom him, he did not love it but he tolerated it.  I tried using treats so he get a nice association. But some weeks later he would not let me groom him unless I gave him the treats FIRST and now not even that works, he would eat the treat and get out of range. He does not shed that much, but I'd rather get him used it....

 

[raksha]

My sisters cat is an aggressive player, and can get quite nippy, scratchy. I figured out that saying "Gentle!" While going limp and then ignoring him worked. He still plays aggressively with my sister, but all I have to say is gentle, and he eases up.

 

[mservant]

Despite how I can pin Mouse down, when he's hyper and biting it is not a manoeuver I go for.  I do it when he's playing nicely, esp as it is like a reward for him.   I am pretty sure that with most cats you would get hurt and it isn't something I'd suggest trying unless you know your cat well and know how they would react.

I'm with Raksha and the go limp and ignore strategy - usually push in gently a little towards Mouse first though, so he gets the sense I am in control.  I don't make any sound unless he hurts me and then it is an 'ouch' which I don't use for anything else.  If your cat is really hyper and won't calm, down I think you do need to calmly take control and use time out briefly so no one is injured.  (If picking your cat up is interpreted as aggression / play and makes the behaviour worse then you can be the one that leaves the space).  

If the Sentry isn't helping, the other thing I'd suggest is keeping to as regular routine as you can.  Using routine can help a cat to relax as they start to know when you will and will not be around.  Using a small number of regular words to communicate with them for specific things can also help them to understand what you are telling them and reduce the confusion that sometimes happen when humans talk to them using too many words or words in different contexts.  

 

[xisare]

Now that you say that about rutine I think that is what has helped the most.

Slowly slowly he has been changing (or very quickly may be) We've gone with our usual rutine, and giving him play time and (try to) cuddle time.

In the last day had has really pounced one or two times, and he mostly faints. He will come running to us ready to ambush, skid to a halt mere centimeters from our feet and run away tumbling and sometime meowing.

So I'm not sure what actually helped, but I'm gald things are getting better

 

[mservant]

It sounds like you are making big progress to me and if you can keep up with the play / cuddle routine and trying to stay one step ahead of his 'human hunting' Akodo should be a very happy and relaxed cat with only the occasional thoughts of ambushing his favourite humans.   I hope you keep us updated. Don't think you haven't made progress if he still catches you out from time to time - Mouse still gets me good, he just doesn't do it very often and he doesn't hurt me when he does.  If I am honest I would be really disappointed and sad if he didn't.

  

 

[xisare]

Well, they say that everything good must come to an end.

Sorry for the abscene, for of all.

We had one pretty good week, and last week everything went wrong. Akodo simply does not want to be calm, and every day takes us longer to calm him down or tire him. Now he even starts to meow loudly at night and he does not let me sleep. He runs around the house (which is not bad), but the bad thing is that he jumps over us, directly over our ribcages between 4 to 5 times each night waking us up. We had to lock him in the bathroom a couple of nights just to be able to sleep. He's also more aggressive, and now I have a couple of nice sized (knee to foot) deep scratches in a leg

When he's not being a hellion, he's actually more cudly than before,so I'm even more confused.

Help?

 

[mservant]

I am sorry to read your update.  I was hopeful you were moving forwards and Akodo was starting to understand some of the house routines.  Did the wounds on your leg happen as part of an attack or in the process of Akodo running about?

Good thinks do not need to have come to an end, they have perhaps merely slipped temporarily and progress can be made again.  I hope so.

Two things come to my mind.  One is whether Akodo has access to windows where he can see things outside and if this gets him very excited at night, or even anxious.  This can happen if a cat sees other animals outside their home.   The other is whether there are hiding areas and toys / things you leave out for him that he can hunt and engage with when you are in bed.  Night is unfortunately the natural time for cats to be up and hunting and this does not fit well with most human companion sleep routines.  

Have there been any changes this week which might have left him feeling more anxious?

 

[xisare]

My leg scratches were made in one if his play attempts

He has access to two windows ledges that he loves to sunbath on but I have not seen much anxiety on him. We keep the blinds closed most of the time to control the heat, so he moslty looks outside in the ealry mornings while the air the apartment. Also, his kitty desk loks to our outside ledge, but he does not use that much anymore.

The only big change in routine that we've had is that I've started to work on looms and of course the yarns and needles make him crazy, to the point that I've had to forbid him to try to play with the looms.

He has plenty of toys scattered around the apartment and some times he meows at them while he's playing but that does not bother us. This last week though he barely notices his toys, even his fishing rod does not interest him much, so he runs A LOT and tries to hunts us.

Maybe he is bored of his toys?

 

[mingking]

He might be bored with his toys, yes. Usually, I put away my cat's toys and rotate them once i find out he's bored of a toy. When I bring it out a few weeks later, he treats it like a new toy and goes crazy!

I was also thinking while I was watching my cat play with his Yeoowww Banana, that he gets quite aggressive on catnip. Some cats will instantly calm down with catnip, others will become hunters and scratchers. I'm wondering if the toys you leave out have catnip in them?

Otherwise, I hope others have better ideas than me.

 

[xisare]

He has two mice with catnip, a Darth Vader and a Stormtrooper, the first day Akodo was crazy, though not aggresive, he just loved them, now he treats them the same as any other toy. We gave him them separatly (like 3 weeks apart)

Maybe I couldtry one of those catnip sprays?

 

[kkoerner]

The sentry chamomile spray is COMPLETELY different to the Feliway. I'd still try it! Feliway is a hormone spray whereas the chamomile isn't. I'd also look at the comfort zone feliway diffuser and the sentry calming collar. The collar works great for many cats!

Also....I work at the SPCA of Texas, in Dallas. My job is specific to cats However, I deal with ones that we transport to our Petsmart locations. These cats stay there and you can visit them any time Petsmart is open. The locations I deal with are: Grand prairie, duncanville, dallas-greenville ave., lakewood-gaston ave. And mesquite. If you are still looking for a cat friend, and visit any of these locations, and find someone you like, feel free to PM me and I can tell you more about their personality...usually. I can't promise a perfect match to your guy though.

However, when the majority of cats in a shelter are kept either with or near each other, and one is separated that way, I'd worry about him getting along with other cats. There is also a chance that HE could get along with cats but that none in the shelter were compatible with him at the time.

 

[kkoerner]

He has two mice with catnip, a Darth Vader and a Stormtrooper, the first day Akodo was crazy, though not aggresive, he just loved them, now he treats them the same as any other toy. We gave him them separatly (like 3 weeks apart)

Maybe I couldtry one of those catnip sprays?

If the catnip didn't make him more aggressive, the spray would work great to spray on his toys

 

[mingking]

Catnip is great but I also know that too much catnip may make your cat immune to it. So having it around all the time depletes the effect.

There's also different types of catnip out there. He might react to one kind and he might not react to another. Catnip sprays are not as effective as dried bulbs/leaves. My cat doesn't care for sprays but will react to the dried stuff.