Hepatic lipidosis--anyone have experience with tube feeding?

[stella1609]

Thank you all for the encouragement. We are hanging in there! So far we are giving her about 180mL a day and she hasn't thrown up since Sunday night (and that was just a little bit). The best part is she is acting much better, probably the most alert she has been in almost two weeks. Funny story for the day--yesterday I must have dropped the cap to Callie's feeding tube on the floor because my dog found it and chewed it up! I had to go back to the e-vet and get another one *facepalm*.

 

[elizc]

I'm so glad to hear your girl hasn't thrown up and seems to be feeling better. It's amazing how giving them intensive, regular nourishment really helps tremendously.

I had to visit the e-vet several times for supplies - they got to know me pretty well! Once I cracked the tube attachment because I screwed a syringe in too hard, which the nurse told me happens when the attachment gets worn a bit.

You should continue to see positive results, little by little. My Lulu started going back to her normal behavior in very small steps over about a month. It was a fantastic day when she found her meow again after about 2 months of silence!

 

[moya hansen]

It's always nice to know you aren't alone when the going gets tough.  I've been tube feeding my 6-year-old cat Punkin for a month and started with the food on the ceiling, in the drawers, etc. along with the rest of you.  I have another cat whose food is usually around and twice Punkin has started feeling better only to gorge herself on his food, then throw it all up. I had to slowly work back up to regular feedings because she couldn't handle a full feeding and threw up again. Her last tests showed her liver enzymes were worse than ever, so I felt a little better to read that Patches enzymes got worse before they got better!  I've got my fingers crossed!

I'm getting ready to look online for syringes--I think I need to buy a whole gross!  They don't last long at all with four feedings a day and at my age it's giving me arthritus in my right hand!  My vet is not close and running over there to pick up syringes is not convenient.

I'm thinking very positive thoughts for all of us whose kitties are trying o recover from their liver ailments!

 

[kittylover23]

I just popped in to give some good vibes and encouragement! Keep hanging in there!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

So....how's Callie doing these days anyhoo?  Starting to eat on her own yet?  By now I'm guessing this tube feeding has become second nature

 

[danacbus]

My 9 yr old cat Joey was diagnosed with HL on Nov 21st. He lost more than 4 lbs, from 17 lbs to 13. He was rather despondent the night before going into triage so I was really worried. He had all the tests and blood work done and the feeding tube was placed on Thanksgiving ($4,000 bill!!). We are in the 3rd week of meds and tube feedings and stressful and emotional don't quite describe this experience! I checked him into nursing care the Monday after Thanksgiving because it was too overwhelming, as I do it on my own. He has been home with me for 5 days and seems to be doing better.

He takes his feedings well and has never vomited. I give him 60cc 3 times a day. I flush the tube with 6 to 12cc before and after meds and food. He takes a whole pill by mouth on an empty stomach though and it is a miserable experience for both of us. I pray he won't need that one much longer. I have not had any issues with his tube (thankfully) but I have had my own mishaps with the slurry... I dropped an entire batch on my hardwood floors yesterday. It was disgusting!

Recently he started wanting cat treats. He even ripped open a bag! Great, right? Uh, not sure... He only wants the treats so I still do feedings. Also, I got home late one night and found him in the Meow Mix I feed the stray that stands on my stoop. I was beginning to worry that he associated his full belly with junk food until today when I realized he rubs on the bag to tell me "chop chop"! Now my concern is that he enjoys his feedings so much he has no reason to eat on his own! I offer him Wellness wet before feedings but he continues to rub on the other bag until he sees the feeding utensils. He then lays down and purrs the whole time. Anyone experience this? Am I doing something wrong? How long am I going to have no life?

 

[danacbus]

It's always nice to know you aren't alone when the going gets tough.  I've been tube feeding my 6-year-old cat Punkin for a month and started with the food on the ceiling, in the drawers, etc. along with the rest of you.  I have another cat whose food is usually around and twice Punkin has started feeling better only to gorge herself on his food, then throw it all up. I had to slowly work back up to regular feedings because she couldn't handle a full feeding and threw up again. Her last tests showed her liver enzymes were worse than ever, so I felt a little better to read that Patches enzymes got worse before they got better!  I've got my fingers crossed!

I'm getting ready to look online for syringes--I think I need to buy a whole gross!  They don't last long at all with four feedings a day and at my age it's giving me arthritus in my right hand!  My vet is not close and running over there to pick up syringes is not convenient.

I'm thinking very positive thoughts for all of us whose kitties are trying o recover from their liver ailments!

I haven't had to deal with the syringe issue yet but I was told to spray with Pam cooking spray to extend the life.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

If he only wants to eat treats right now, why not try crushing up a few and sprinkling them on top of his canned Wellness.  He might start eating a little of that on his own.  Even once he does start eating the Wellness, you will probably still have to supplement with the tube feeding for awhile.   I had to tube feed my Bashful for 4 months when he had HL.

Don't think of it as having no life, think of it as bonding with your little guy.  Also, is there some reason why you cannot give him his pill via the tube?  Wouldn't that make life a lot easier?  I would think you could just give it with a little water.  It may say "do not crush" or something, but I would give the Vet a call and ask why it can't be crushed in a little water and put directly into the tube, since it would be bypassiing his mouth.  (worth a try)

 

[dr tim]

Did your vet give you any clue as to the time when you can have the tube removed?  Typically once they start eating the tube may be removed, hopefully for less than 4K.

 

[mytyson]

I just started this fun experience with my cat, Tyson, this week He wasn't seeming to enjoy the feedings at first, but the past three I've done he purred the whole time too! I really hope it's a new ritual for him Much better than looking like he hates me! And I am in the same situation of doing it on my own-- so I know how you feel with "not having a life." But I know it's going to be so worth it the day he is back to his old self. Good luck with your kitty too!

 

[monkey brewster]

Our calico (Monkey) is at the vet right now, getting her feeding tube put in. I thought she would eat for me and get better with the meds, but she HATED the Metronidazole so much she shook her head around violently and foamed at the mouth until she trailed almost all of the medicine through the dining room, living room and up the carpet stairs. She also wouldn't touch any of the food we gave her after taking a couple licks of the wet AD recovery, so I figured at least with the feeding tube we could skip the medicine trauma and ensure that she's getting all of the calories she needs to get better.

This has been a hard hit for our little family. The dude and I (and Monkey) were super excited to buy and move into our first house this fall. The stress started when I got laid off, and escalated when someone stole our new lawnmower and a bike from the garage right after we put up our Christmas decorations. In the mean time, I was half ignoring Monkey's sudden strike against the food I had always gotten her - a nice "Evolve" formula with no corn, natural chicken, etc. I was annoyed because the huge bag had been on sale, and I didn't want to waste it. She was also jumping the fence into neighboring yards, so we figured she was just stealing the poodle's food next door. Plus, she seemed happy and active. Fast forward another week or two, we go on a trip to Houston Friday night and I pour some food in her auto feeder, saying "If she's really hungry, she'll get over her pickiness and eat." Nope. Got back Sunday afternoon and she hadn't touched it, and I noticed definition around her bones that I hadn't before (she got a bit chubby at the apartment, so I thought the weight loss was healthy activity at first). I immediately gave her some old Purina, and she quickly started eating. Problem solved?

I had a job interview Monday morning, and right before I left, I heard Monkey gagging and went to the bedroom just in time to see her vomit up a little foamy pile of yellow bile on the bed, twice. I was worried, but cleaned it up and thought she had just eaten too quickly the night before on a very empty stomach. When I got home, she did a weird, pained meow at me and ran to throw up a little more foam on the rug, but after a couple hours, she went back and ate more food (more gingerly this time). I still hoped that she would keep eating and get stronger on her own, but my healthy paranoia made me call the vet to get her an appointment the next day, where the doctor happened to notice at a certain angle that the skin showing at her temple was yellow. Jaundiced. Luckily, the doctor could do the basic bloodwork herself in about half an hour, so we ruled out FIV / leukemia, and were banking on fatty liver.

Fast forward to the first paragraph -- she had an ultrasound this morning to make sure something worse wasn't causing the liver issues, like pancreatitis. I'm glad to find some good support forums since kitty liver issues are pretty common. I always thought it was a problem for older cats though, so it was unexpected. I'm hoping that her youth and usually strong personality will help her pull through. Along with the overwhelming love of her "mom" and "dad," of course. I plan to check in with her progress to add to the information bank. I'm hoping Monkey will get better in time for me to go back to work and not have to worry about her at home, because I don't want to stress her (or myself) with daily vet drop-offs. I was also worried about the price, but it sounds like others have it much worse! My procedure cost is closer to $400, not $4,000. But with the original visit, ultrasound and maintenance, I'm estimating about $1,000. Not really what we needed with the job situation, but all I want is to have Monkey back!

 

[danacbus]

The animal ER is the reason it cost so much. Care at my vet office since this ordeal began has been less than $400. Honestly, it really is no life. I'm exhausted and have a fast-paced job so getting very little sleep and sitting with him offering food then doing a feeding 3x a day has taken a toll on my home and other two pets but we are pushing through because he's an amazing little guy.

He is moving around the house more now and his sisters don't growl and hiss at him like before (except Sasha.. She's a bully and not happy about the amount of attention Joey receives). He even plays a little again.

The food/eating situation is just sorta weird right now, I fear because I returned to work.... One day he wants the cheap kibble, the next he licks insistently at the Wellness wet but isn't taking actual bites... Other days he wants treats. I've only had 1 or 2 days where I am certain he consumed enough calories so I've continued the feedings any day he didn't eat enough calories.

His 3rd, and most recent liver chemistries were done on Monday. Everything is almost back to normal. He has 3 elements that are just over the normal range, but have greatly improved. The vet thinks he is well on his way provided he starts eating on his own. I believe he will keep the tube in 2 additional weeks after he is eating on his own for 2 full weeks. I've had to ask to be excused from a work trip on a project out of fear of relapse if he's better by January (not good for my career but we've come to far to take that risk).

Does anyone have any idea about how long it normally takes kitties to bounce back and eat on their own once their bodies have healed? I saw 4 months on one post?

Thanks again for all the encouragement!

 

[monkey brewster]

Our vet told me that how quickly they heal varies a lot depending on a number of factors, many of them unpredictable. She mentioned "a couple weeks" and "a month" when talking about possible recovery times for Monkey. She doesn't seem incredibly sickly compared to older cats I've seen with this disease, but she has slowed down a lot and stopped bothering to sniff at food when we show it to her. I'm not sure what's making her hurt/nauseous most, but she tries to seal herself against whatever is nearest to avoid being moved or picked up. She actually conformed to the "L" shape of one of our steps when I tried to pick her up and move her to the chair by the fluid bag (glad I installed those wall hooks a while back, it was a perfect set-up).

Speaking of the fluids, the way those soft plastic bags list their measurements never made sense to me. They say to hold the bag from the top instead of squeezing it to see an accurate reading, but the numbers are all equally spaced, and super wide at the bottom between the 7 and the 8. So there is clearly more liquid between the 7 & 8 than between the 1 & 2, even though each increment is supposed to be 100cc. It doesn't seem like gravity is taken into account accurately. I let the bag go down between the 1 and the 2 today since it didn't seem like much liquid. She'll probably be the size of a camel on the tenth day, looks like a ton of water between 9 and the bottom of the bag...

Aside from a couple small growls when trying to get Monkey into a better posture for feeding, and when inserting the needle and first starting the fluid drip, she has been a real trooper. I gave her 5cc of food when we got home the evening after her afternoon procedure, 10cc before bed, 15 in the morning (an hour after the dissolved denamarin tab), and 20 this afternoon after her fluids. The only time she didn't purr was this morning, probably because those morning meds on an empty stomach are never fun. Overall, I'm optimistic about her treatment, I just hope she meets me halfway and finds her appetite soon. I hardly had time to take a shower today.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I was the one who posted 4 months, but our cat was NOT the norm.  It truly depends on how severe the HL is.  Some only need to be assist fed for a week or two, some longer.  Just be aware that once they start eating on their own doesn't mean the assist feeding can immediately stop.  And also be aware that the yellow coloring seems to last for a long time, but that doesn't mean they aren't getting better. 

You just have to work with your Vet to know for sure when it's time to take the tube out, because some times the start eating on their own, then stop again

 

[danacbus]

Mrsgreenjeens, yes, I noticed that too because he ate a lot 2 days in a row then not much the next. He's actually not yellow anymore even though his bilirubin is still slightly elevated. It was insanely high when I first noticed he didn't eat with the other 2. I'm assuming he was severely sick since he required a 4 night stay in triage. He was on fluids there but did not require them at home.

Monkey Brewster, the first day I brought him home, the internal medicine specialist had me feeding him 30cc 3x day as well as flushing tube with 10cc of water before and after meds and feedings, are you doing more than 3 feedings a day? From what was explained to me is that aggressive feeding is necessary so might want to ask how many cc are expected each treatment plan. They expected 90cc after 6 days but Joey could not handle so much so I've kept it at 60cc except on days I can quantify what he has eaten on his own. I feel ya on the shower thing! My hair has not been out of a ponytail since the 21st. I called in to work today, just plum exhausted. We all snuggle in bed this morning then I cleaned out the fridge and went to the grocer. I've managed to loss 10 lbs since thanksgiving so a trip to the market had to happen lol After an evening nap, the cats all batted around a toy together. He's definitely on the mend except for the self-feeding. Fingers crossed for days to come.

 

[mytyson]

I'm right with you guys on the ponytail hair! I work retail and feel like I haven't actually taken the time to get ready for work since this ordeal started on 11/28. I feed every 4 hours so I am looking forward to him getting better just so I can sleep through the night again

Every day I see more changes in him acting like his old self, and it makes me overly excited and happy- so I know this is all more than worth it. I put up my Christmas tree and that's his new sleeping spot The first day he met me at the door when I came home I wanted to jump with joy!

 

[monkey brewster]

I'm glad to hear that others are skipping showers and meals . . . and that it's okay to feed 30cc three times a day, because that's the schedule we're on starting today. I can't think of any way else to get a full can in her, and we're supposed to increase a bit more tomorrow (a can and a third). Takes me a good hour sometimes to feed (started speeding it up a bit, a little under a minute per cc), so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to eventually squeeze all that food into two feedings a day instead of three. For one thing, I'm afraid her stomach will pop with 50cc or more in it at a time. Her belly was like a solid balloon last night, and she won't poop. Should I force her to get up and walk around a bit more to get that stuff "moving through the tubes" a little better?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'm glad to hear that others are skipping showers and meals . . . and that it's okay to feed 30cc three times a day, because that's the schedule we're on starting today. I can't think of any way else to get a full can in her, and we're supposed to increase a bit more tomorrow (a can and a third). Takes me a good hour sometimes to feed (started speeding it up a bit, a little under a minute per cc), so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to eventually squeeze all that food into two feedings a day instead of three. For one thing, I'm afraid her stomach will pop with 50cc or more in it at a time. Her belly was like a solid balloon last night, and she won't poop. Should I force her to get up and walk around a bit more to get that stuff "moving through the tubes" a little better?

2 feedings a day seems like too few to me.  Is that what your Vet advised.  It seems more frequent, smaller meals is the norm.  I was also doing feedings every 4 hours (yes, for FOUR months!), and was still working full time at that time of my life).  Luckily DH worked in the ER, so he worked nights and I worked days, so we could easily split the feeding duty between us.

Anyway, I would double check about feeding so much at one time.  Seems lot a whole lot at once to go in.  When we fed too much, it just came right back out

 

[danacbus]

I'm glad to hear that others are skipping showers and meals . . . and that it's okay to feed 30cc three times a day, because that's the schedule we're on starting today. I can't think of any way else to get a full can in her, and we're supposed to increase a bit more tomorrow (a can and a third). Takes me a good hour sometimes to feed (started speeding it up a bit, a little under a minute per cc), so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to eventually squeeze all that food into two feedings a day instead of three. For one thing, I'm afraid her stomach will pop with 50cc or more in it at a time. Her belly was like a solid balloon last night, and she won't poop. Should I force her to get up and walk around a bit more to get that stuff "moving through the tubes" a little better?

Yes, moving around is good. I ended up freaking out the day after Joey came home because he hadn't pee'd. We rushed back to th ER and he went 2x there. Same issue the Monday I checked him into nursing care when my vet returned from vacation. The moving around got him to go. Is your kitty going at all?

Are you mixing 1 can of a/d with equal portion on clinacare? Joey is a bigger boy but most he can do seems to be 60cc each feeding. He was on the 30cc 3x a day for about 3 days.

P.S Joey is hanging out on top of my work laptop bag. Must be cozy lol

 

[danacbus]

I'm right with you guys on the ponytail hair! I work retail and feel like I haven't actually taken the time to get ready for work since this ordeal started on 11/28. I feed every 4 hours so I am looking forward to him getting better just so I can sleep through the night again
Every day I see more changes in him acting like his old self, and it makes me overly excited and happy- so I know this is all more than worth it. I put up my Christmas tree and that's his new sleeping spot The first day he met me at the door when I came home I wanted to jump with joy!

That's great! Sounds like you guys are moving in the right direction! I'm praying for that day when Bub meets me on the stairs like everyday of his life before illness.