It seems as though they were integrated rather quickly into the household - maybe try introducing them again? it could be stress related
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Help!! Walter is peeing now!
- Thread starter kara_leigh
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vibes vibes
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- #23
Yes they are neutered. It is one of those slick type bags.Originally Posted by kluchetta
I had a cat that peed on bean bags, and he stopped once he was neutered. I can't remember, are they neutered yet? Other than than I'm not very helpful, I'm afraid. Is it that slick type of bean bag? They just seem to love to go on that type of stuff, AND those plastic garbage bags.
Up until now no one had really given me any advice on how to FIX the problem, rather just told me how to clean up after the fact. Only Feralvr really gave me usable advice on how to try to fix it. I don't want to just follow him around and clean up his pee, I want to STOP him from doing it in the first place. Some people out there may be content letting their cat pee in the house and just cleaning up after them, but I am not one of them. As I said, I don't think the expensive cat attract litter ($5-10 for a small bag is expensive in my world when their litter now is $5 for a 25lb bag and I use 1.5 of them to fill my boxes) will do a thing when he uses the litter box just fine except for once a day or every couple of days.
They were integrated at their own pace. I didn't push them any more than they wanted. Yes, it was "quick" compared to most who keep their new cats in a different room for months (they integrated fully in 3 weeks, which I do not think is too fast, and they had their own room the whole time), but they all get along just fine (with the exception of Sebastian, which is part of the reason he is no longer here) and they play, cuddle, and do everything else together. I know my cats, and they are not stressed...at least for that reason. This all stems from Sebastian being here (which now I see was a mistake to even bring him here) and has nothing to do with their integration.
I was just wondering... I saw your adorable cat photos, what cuties!! But saw the beds on the floor in the photos. Do you have any vertical climbing space for the cats? Like a cat tree? And the more cats you have, the more vertical spaces you need. Cats really like to be up high, and it gives them confidence. In my house, I have more cat furniture then people furniture
. And my cats all have their own high perch to call their own. Just wondering, if you already have cat trees, then disregard my post
. And I will keep sending .
You need to black light everywhere!!!!!!!!! It will show up every place any cat could of pee'd
I know cats can intro very quick I've had it happen literally over night but.... I think personally all cats need vet checks yes you might if seen one do it but what if another is picking up on an old scent and had caused a problem and adding to it and to only actually catch Walter, and please don't say well he is the only one I've caught doing it, I like others deal with multiple cats this happens hense us mentioning black light (search it on here) and enzyme cleaner if you want to move so bad without the smell please listen you need both a black light and enzyme cleaner
I know cats can intro very quick I've had it happen literally over night but.... I think personally all cats need vet checks yes you might if seen one do it but what if another is picking up on an old scent and had caused a problem and adding to it and to only actually catch Walter, and please don't say well he is the only one I've caught doing it, I like others deal with multiple cats this happens hense us mentioning black light (search it on here) and enzyme cleaner if you want to move so bad without the smell please listen you need both a black light and enzyme cleaner
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I'm so sorry it didn't work out with Sebastian.
Is it possible that Walter could have a UTI? Or did you change the litter, or buy a different brand?
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- #27
Perhaps people aren't reading the whole thread, but I'm getting a little irritated. These are ALL of the people that have asked if he's really been seen by a vet AFTER I already posted that he has. Do you think I'm a liar?? I don't understand.
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- #28
Thank you so much for the advice. I really appreciate it. The boys' room is the bathroom, where they stayed when they first got here. There is still a litter box in there, and Walter has been staying in there now since he peed on the bean bag last night. I don't know if I feel comfortable locking both of them in there until we move (5 weeks from today, that's a LONG time for that). I don't think that is fair, and they won't understand why I'm doing it. Do you know what I mean? Hmmm. I'm sure they are feeling our stress, but until we move there isn't much we can do about that, unfortunately.Originally Posted by Feralvr
Kara, I am so sorry about this situation and am sorry for Sebastian too. I have also had problems with cat pee over the years and it is quite stressful for human and cat alike. Feelings of insecurity can cause your cat to start spraying. With the changes in the home in regards to Sebastian coming in and then suddenly disappearing could be causing Walter some stress and confusion as well.
It is so important to identify the area where the spraying has taken place. You are sure there are the two places, the bean bag (which I too would toss) and the blanket. I, too, thought bleach would get rid of the smell on blankets, etc. I am surprised to read other's say it doesn't. YIKES!!!
There should be no need for a cat to spray urine indoors in a domestic setting, since this should represent a safe haven for them, but, if there is tension or confusion between the members of the household and the cat feels insecure they will resort to urine spraying to address the conflict. This is one of the downsides to sharing our life with these wonderful creatures. And I worry about it too, especially after reading about all the problems other's do have with this. IT CAN BE RESOLVED.
You need to get a black light! Petsmart carries one, called STINK FREE> I also use the Stink Free enzyme cleaner. It is awesome. I also use NOK Out. As far as I know NO other cleaner's work well enough. The black light will need to be used at night with all the lights off. If there are other spots in the carpet that will cause Walter to go to his favorite spot to pee (i.e., blanket or bean bag). This will pin-point the spot and you can treat it too.
You also need to make sure he has no infection, or bladder crystals. With the stress going on in the home right now, this could very well be the culprit. Could be feline lower urinary tract disease, bladder stones which cause cystitis, and crystals. This might not be the cause, but it must be checked into.
With Walter and Thomas having their brother come in for a few weeks and then suddenly disappear might have caused them a bit of insecurity. I have a sanctuary room, safe room in my house where it is filled with kitty heaven stuff and if I ran into this problem, I would confine to this room to get a handle on the stress-causing situation and time to properly clean the rest of the house. This way the cat can begin to settle and use the box again. This is just a suggestion and probably what I would do. You could even put Thomas in that room with Walter. They both are probably a bit out of sorts at the moment.
They also are feeling you stress as your upcoming move comes closer. So there is a multifaceted group of issues going on in the home right now. It might be best to confine both boys to their own room for the remainder of the month till you move. Try to just keep things calm/quiet, it sounds like they just need to feel safe/secure again. I don't know if this helps, but these are things I would do.
They love going to the second story and looking down over the balcony, and they like to jump onto our book shelves. Other than that we don't really have anything. We plan to buy a cat tree when we move and attach some shelves up the wall in our living room where it goes up really high. Right now we can't afford a cat tree, though.Originally Posted by Feralvr
I was just wondering... I saw your adorable cat photos, what cuties!! But saw the beds on the floor in the photos. Do you have any vertical climbing space for the cats? Like a cat tree? And the more cats you have, the more vertical spaces you need. Cats really like to be up high, and it gives them confidence. In my house, I have more cat furniture then people furniture. And my cats all have their own high perch to call their own. Just wondering, if you already have cat trees, then disregard my post. And I will keep sending .
I know, some people probably look at me and think "well, why did you get two more cats, then" but until we move we are barely putting food on the table. Seriously. My husband has to pick and choose which bills to pay each month. We never go out to eat, we never go to the movies or out to a bar...I stay at home and do nothing and he goes to work, then he comes home and we sleep then do it all over again. That is our life. We have enough for emergencies (medical and vet bills, etc) and the staples (our food, cat food, litter), but that's it. That's the reason why we are moving out of this house that is drowning us, going from a $225k house to a $125k house with 1/5 of the cost in bills each month. I feel like I'm being patronized, but it is ESSENTIAL that we sell our house. Whether any of you believe me or not. My cats are my life right now, and I would do anything for them. I just need help with this.
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I only read your first post. I'm glad the vet said Walter is fine. Going to the vet is always my first suggestion, when I reply to someone. I didn't read through your whole thread first. I'm sorry.
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Honestly? I know you don't want to - but you may be better off locking them in the bathroom when you cannot supervise them & give them plenty of out/playtime when you can supervise them. Make sure whatever is 'desirable' to pee on is picked up.
This way you can work on re-training them to use the litterbox & keep this from becoming too much of a habit.
I've had to confine cats, there are things you can do to enrich their environment. I've had to keep cats confine to bathrooms or a bedroom (12' x12') before for a variety of reasons - not ideal but do-able for 5 weeks. Lots of toys, rotating them so they don't get bored. If there's enough room a small cat tree/furniture helps, too.
I'm sorry I don't have more advice than that. I have one cat who lives in the 700 sq ft office because he urinates inappropriately.
This way you can work on re-training them to use the litterbox & keep this from becoming too much of a habit.
I've had to confine cats, there are things you can do to enrich their environment. I've had to keep cats confine to bathrooms or a bedroom (12' x12') before for a variety of reasons - not ideal but do-able for 5 weeks. Lots of toys, rotating them so they don't get bored. If there's enough room a small cat tree/furniture helps, too.
I'm sorry I don't have more advice than that. I have one cat who lives in the 700 sq ft office because he urinates inappropriately.
Actually, the advice to clean up the pee IS part of how to stop the behavior. It is the smell that continues to encourage him to go out of the box. It is a circular problem.
The other things to do all relate to the number of boxes, their placement, the litter used, identifying stress triggers - but we KNOW what happened. Sebastian came and left, he peed, and the smell is not gone. And now Walter's stressed and agitated. You didn't recently change food or litter, and he's fine with the boxes and the set up you had, and it's not medical.
So the ONLY thing that changed is that now there is the smell of Sebastian's pee - and Walter keeps peeing on those places. Unless I missed something, and he's peeing other spots now too? I thought I read he was peeing on the bean bag and the blanket.
So to get him to stop, you must properly clean up the smell. That IS the advice on what to do. Getting rid of the smell should get rid of the inappropriate peeing! Further, we also denied access to any place where pee had happened by covering it with aluminum foil. Others use an upside down box or laundry basket (our cats don't like the foil). AND spraying the foil/basket whatever with the feliway.
But he needs to be confined for a few days while you take the time you need to get rid of the smell - completely. And apart from a good enzyme cleaner used properly, you MUST let it air dry. That is CRITICAL to the process. There is no way to speed it up.
I do think you should use a black light to ensure you haven't missed any spots. If you get a small handheld one, hold it about 6" from the floor, and scour your home. Pee will show up as an orange splotch.
Also, you may think it's not worth it to use the cat attract. But Carolina provided a link to a coupon or rebate so your first bag is FREE. And yes, he WAS using the litter box just fine. NOW HE ISN'T. Cat Attract does not need to be your litter of choice and a long term fix. It is being suggested as a short term aid. IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Because you haven't dealt with this before, you can't understand why we're pushing it. But for those of us that have dealt with this before, we are shouting - you want to sell your home, and you want a quick fix? Get the Cat Attract Litter.
Again, this is part of the solution. Re-attracting the cat to the litter box.
Originally Posted by LDG
Actually, the advice to clean up the pee IS part of how to stop the behavior. It is the smell that continues to encourage him to go out of the box. It is a circular problem.In order to STOP the peeing out of the box, when it is not a medical problem, you must properly clean any existing areas that have been soiled. That is first and foremost!
The other things to do all relate to the number of boxes, their placement, the litter used, identifying stress triggers - but we KNOW what happened. Sebastian came and left, he peed, and the smell is not gone. And now Walter's stressed and agitated. You didn't recently change food or litter, and he's fine with the boxes and the set up you had, and it's not medical.
So the ONLY thing that changed is that now there is the smell of Sebastian's pee - and Walter keeps peeing on those places. Unless I missed something, and he's peeing other spots now too? I thought I read he was peeing on the bean bag and the blanket.
So to get him to stop, you must properly clean up the smell. That IS the advice on what to do. Getting rid of the smell should get rid of the inappropriate peeing! Further, we also denied access to any place where pee had happened by covering it with aluminum foil. Others use an upside down box or laundry basket (our cats don't like the foil). AND spraying the foil/basket whatever with the feliway.
But he needs to be confined for a few days while you take the time you need to get rid of the smell - completely. And apart from a good enzyme cleaner used properly, you MUST let it air dry. That is CRITICAL to the process. There is no way to speed it up.
I do think you should use a black light to ensure you haven't missed any spots. If you get a small handheld one, hold it about 6" from the floor, and scour your home. Pee will show up as an orange splotch.
Also, you may think it's not worth it to use the cat attract. But Carolina provided a link to a coupon or rebate so your first bag is FREE. And yes, he WAS using the litter box just fine. NOW HE ISN'T. Cat Attract does not need to be your litter of choice and a long term fix. It is being suggested as a short term aid. IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Because you haven't dealt with this before, you can't understand why we're pushing it. But for those of us that have dealt with this before, we are shouting - you want to sell your home, and you want a quick fix? Get the Cat Attract Litter.
Again, this is part of the solution. Re-attracting the cat to the litter box.
Kara,
I am not sure why you feel you are being patronized, and I am truly sorry you feel this way... All the advices given are sound, please consider them carefully... Taking care of the issue by cleaning, providing a litterbox with cat attract, taking care of the stress, etc. is fixing the situation... I know sometimes we want to hear a solution that is more in line with what we need, our budget, our time frame, our current life situation, etc, but when it comes to cats, it doesn't work like that... There are things you must do to solve the problem, which clearly you do want to solve the problem, and those things are proven and effective...
These people here have been through it, done it and gotten out of it successfully, at least most of the ones giving you advices have...
So please, don't think we are patronizing you... We are just trying to help you... It is not our cats who are peeing out of the box... But here we are, taking the time to write long posts with everything we have done in the past that have worked for us, and letting you know what the problems were, so that you can avoid those triggers.
All we are doing is trying to help...
Cat attract litter is not just a litter and it helps a LOT. Cleaning with an enzyme cleaner is absolutely essential, in every spot that has been peed on... Reducing stress with feliway is highly recommended, and if push comes to shove, confinement might do the trick...
Kara, I have read every single word of all your posts you haven't read my replies or anyone else's by the sounds of it everyone here has tried to help, suggesting the vet is the first reply your going to get because uti's can come on literally over night speaking from first hand experience, I do not think your a liar at all!!
You need the enzyme cleaner to clean where you know he is pee'ing then a black light to double check at the very least if you can't get the litter then confine him for a couple of days so he knows the only pave to go is the litterbox
Really??? I see multiple people that posted prior to Feralvr that gave you the exact same advice she did. People explained to you in detail that you need enzyme cleaner and which ones to buy and that nothing else would work. You then asked if bleach would work. Perhaps a few members didn't read every post, specifically about Walter going to a vet, but you obviously haven't either, or you are just ignoring the advice.
My brother is having similar problems with his dog and won't listen to the same advice being given here and instead is thinking of bring his dog to the shelter. I'm frustrated with him also.
...and before you say we don't understand how stressful it is having a cat urinate in inappropriate places when you have an offer on your house and are waiting to close, I had a sick cat that was never using the litterbox with my house on the market and no offer on the table and no TCS to get advice from. You are in a better situation than I was.
You've been given excellent advice, please listen and try the suggestions.
I'll come out and say it---enzyme cleaners are ineffective! PERIOD! (At least in my experience.) Enzymes are activated by moisture and just how much activity will be left in a bottle of enzymes that has been sitting on the store shelf for weeks or more.
The only thing I've found that works is my magic pee removing recipe:
2 cups hydrogen peroxide
2 teaspoons baking soda
2 DROPS liquid dish soap
Mix and saturate the affected item. It really works!
As for stopping the continuing behavior, I highly recommend Prozac. It worked for my Ziggy and the sooner you address the behavior, the less chance it will become chronic. Screaming, grabbing the cat and locking him away is not very helpful, especially in a shy kitty like Walter. He needs to feel at ease and if it takes a chemical cocktail, so be it if the problem is fixed.
Good luck...try to relax.
C
The only thing I've found that works is my magic pee removing recipe:
2 cups hydrogen peroxide
2 teaspoons baking soda
2 DROPS liquid dish soap
Mix and saturate the affected item. It really works!
As for stopping the continuing behavior, I highly recommend Prozac. It worked for my Ziggy and the sooner you address the behavior, the less chance it will become chronic. Screaming, grabbing the cat and locking him away is not very helpful, especially in a shy kitty like Walter. He needs to feel at ease and if it takes a chemical cocktail, so be it if the problem is fixed.
Good luck...try to relax.
C
Callie, I'm sorry, but I really think it's way to early for Kara to consider using something like prozac - or any medication alternative. I think saying "the sooner you address the behavior, the less chance it will become chronic" is alarmist. So many have had kitties with peeing problems that have continued for months and were then able to resolve it successfully without the use of drugs. Gary and I did resort to using Elavil (amytriptaline) to help break Spooky's cycle of peeing... but I think pursuing the route of using drugs to curb inappropriate peeing before all (or basically any) other options have been tried is really premature. Kara hasn't even gotten rid of the pee smell yet to see what happens, and that will probably solve the problem.
From my understanding, Walter's peeing where Sebastian was, and the scent of the pee isn't gone yet. That is likely the cause of the problem, and simply removing the smell should break the cycle.
I think at a minimum that should be tried (hopefully in combination with using Cat Attract for a week or maybe two) before exploring the drug option.
Yes, locking him up isn't a great idea. We certainly never did it, but Kara's freaking out, so for everyone's sanity over there, I think keeping him confined while she gets rid of the pee smell to break the peeing-out-of-the-box cycle is important to help reduce the stress levels.
Certainly shouting at him is definitely not going to help (and actually contributes to an ongoing problem), but if they're stressed and can't control themselves, then keeping Walter in the bathroom temporarily is the best option. I don't think they'll need to keep him in there for long.
You are so right about the issue re: active enzymes. That's another reason it's important to buy a quality enzyme cleaner.
But there is a strong, legitimate, and chemically important reason to use enzyme cleaners. AJ posted a link to an article that explained it in general terms, but if anyone's interested, here's more detail on why an enzyme cleaner is so important, and home-made mixtures or other cleaners won't solve the problem long term (at least to a kitty's nose). The solution may work better than some enzyme cleaners like Nature's Miracle - temporarily. (And Kara may not care that it's a temporary fix as hopefully they're selling their home soon). But it works only as long as there isn't an issue with humidity. I will explain.
I have done a lot of research on this issue. Vinegar neutralizes the odor, and hydrogen peroxide is 30% more oxidizing than chlorine - but cat pee is composed of things that REQUIRE enzymes to break down the chemical bonds. Cat pee is composed of:
Urea
Urobilin/Urobilinogin
Uric Acid
Sodium
Other electrolytes
Creatinine
Pheremones
Bacteria - typically 5 different strains.
When cat urine dries, the urea gets broken down by the bacteria. This is what makes it smell like ammonia. As it decomposes further, it releases thiols that make the odor worse. (It is the thiols in skunk spray that make it SO difficult to remove the smell of skunk spray).
The urea and urobilin/urobilogin are not hard to clean. Urea is water soluble, and urobilin is basically the pigment that causes the color. A traditional household or carpet cleaner will deal with these. And this is why hydrogen peroxide and vinegar will appear to be effective at eliminating the problem.
The problem is the uric acid. Uric acid is insoluble and bonds tightly to whatever surface it touches, and the sodium in the urine compounds the problem.
The vinegar and hydrogen peroxide do not - are not chemically capable of - removing the uric acid. It temporarily makes the smell go away, because it does clean up everything else. But when exposed to humidity, the sodium causes the uric acid crystals to reform - and they start to release the smell again. Not always to the human nose, but the cats can smell it.
Because of the uric acid/sodium, cat pee has a half-life of six years. !!!!!!!
So the ONLY thing that will break down the uric acid to PERMANENTLY remove the smell is an enzyme cleaner.
The problem is that not all enzyme cleaners are equally effective. Good ones are expensive. Cheap ones will work - but need to be reapplied over and over (and probably end up costing as much as the expensive enzyme cleaners).
Having dealt with three different males blocking numerous times, and Spooky peeing outside of the box for months, we've used many solutions, cleaners, and enzyme cleaners. Nok Out works. I haven't used Anti-Icky poo, but I understand it is the "same class" of enzyme cleaner.
Of course ANY cleaner needs to be used properly. Unfortunately, Kara was not using the cleaner properly. "Spraying" doesn't work. DOUSING, POURING, and SOAKING are required.
Nok Out: http://www.nokout.com
Anti-Icky Poo: http://www.catfaeries.com
If you cannot afford Cat Attract Litter you may not be able to afford Feliway either as it can be very pricey.
Good advice from everyone re cleaning with the enzyme cleaner. Hope it works for you.
Good advice from everyone re cleaning with the enzyme cleaner. Hope it works for you.
My one other suggestion is Cat Attract additive rather than litter - you just sprinkle it into your existing litter, and it's cheaper than the litter.
I know Walter is using the litter most of the time, but it, along with using a black light and enzyme cleaner for existing spots, can fix the problem, and help him use the litter box 100% of the time.
I'm guessing you guys are pretty stressed right now with the sale, and probably also starting to pack, or at least organise and move stuff about. Walter may be picking on your stress, and having things move around, which is exacerbating his post-Sebastian stress, and still peeing in Sebastian's spots that he can still detect.
I know Walter is using the litter most of the time, but it, along with using a black light and enzyme cleaner for existing spots, can fix the problem, and help him use the litter box 100% of the time.
I'm guessing you guys are pretty stressed right now with the sale, and probably also starting to pack, or at least organise and move stuff about. Walter may be picking on your stress, and having things move around, which is exacerbating his post-Sebastian stress, and still peeing in Sebastian's spots that he can still detect.
I was thinking that too or if you really need a cheap idea you can try cat nip however! if your cats eats cat nip you don't want to add it to the litter because they'll accidentally eat litter along with it. Tread lightly here but in a seriously tight fix you can use it with caution and see if it helps out.
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Best advice in this post. Of course your alpha is peeing on the chair and the blanket. The cat's old urine scent is still there- an invader in the home- covering it with his scent means all is well again and he is in control. No UTI just basic cat instinct.
