HELP!! Regurgitation and raw food (sorry for the long post)

[lilas]

I'm not a huge egg person. I only have eggs at home originally for baking purposes and now because of him. So I figured if I can get him to eat two to three egg yolks a week, my eggs are less likely to go bad while sitting in my fridge

 

[ldg]

He just turned 10 months a few days ago. He does groom himself, but shortly after he goes and hides behind the door.

Oh YAY! So I don't know about the hiding behind the door thing, but grooming after he eats is great. Most likely not nauseous then - or not overly so, anyway (because of Lazlo's cancer, I am totally on top of the "is my cat nauseous" thing).
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And yes! Total success on the egg yolk! I sprinkled some fortiflora and ate it right up (though he didn't finish it all, there was still a little puddle at the bottom but I figured for a first day, that was pretty good). I figured I might give him an egg yolk every other day. Afterwards he was super hyper (staring at me with his mouth open and meowing meowing meowing but not breathing hard, just staring, and then he licks his lips). And running all over the house. He did pant a little while playing, but it seemed more out of being hyper and excited than trouble breathing. I wonder if he just missed me or if it was the egg. 

That is wonderful he loved it! I really hope that as it has for others, this helps clear up the issue. It'd be so much easier if it were hairballs, and the lecithin in the egg yolk helps! :cross: The mysteries and wondering SUCK. You know, just sayin' .....
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It's really hard for me to figure out if what he's doing is hairballs or a breathing problem. I think I got spooked with the asthma warning since so many people say that asthma is often mistaken for hairball. So now, every little cough I freak out and have to keep telling myself it's just a little cough that sounds more like a sneeze and NOT a reason to take him to the vet. I think that if he had asthma, he would be having attacks where it would be obvious he was having trouble breathing, like what he did at the beginning of December. But he's not doing that anymore and he's been off the predisolone and terbutaline since Jan 13. And if I start taking him to the vet all the time, he will never de-stress and it will likely only make it worse.

ARGH! It's so hard being a pet mommy. 

Um, yeah, know THAT one. Flowerbelle, on canned only, had a major hairball problem. I mean - every few days, and reguritating after many meals. We were always wondering about that hack... and took her to the holistic vet to see about her hairball problem. Well, x-rays revealed potential early asthma and bronchitis. Her heart looked enlarged, and she could hear a murmur (but she hears a murmur in all our cats that no other vet has ever heard. ) But they checked her blood pressure. It was REALLY high - higher than stress at being at the vet could account for. So now we not only had to treat her bronchitis, we had to explore potential cardiac issues!

Well, the bronchitis cleared up, and x-rays show no sign of asthma... cardiac ultrasound showed her murmur is mitral valve prolapse, no heart disease (thank goodness!!!), and we explore every option, but can find no reason for her high BP other than arterial scarring in her lungs from a really bad lung worm infection when she was rescued (she also lost an eye and most of her hearing to herpes. She was a mess when rescued, poor baby. ).

But she's having a weird breathing problem now... ( http://www.thecatsite.com/t/253783/opinions-please-is-flowerbelle-having-a-mild-asthma-attack ) ... that turns out is probably an issue in her throat from the way I've been pilling her...

...and sorry for the derailment, but my only point was that I can relate. :anon: :lol3:
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Thank god for this forum. It makes me feel less like a crazy person.

When I transitioned, there were four or five of us transitioning at the same time, and we constantly joked about the men in little white coats coming to collect us! No worries, hun, there's plenty of room in the padded cell for you!
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So true. The support here is phenomenal.

Yep! We have fun trying to get out of the straightjackets. :lol3:
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My cat likes egg yolk (no toppers needed), but she won't eat more than 1/3 yolk at a time. I don't know why, maybe it's too rich and sticky??? I don't give her a whole yolk anymore. I just give her some of my yolk when I'm fixing it for myself (a little less yolk is probably better for me too).

I have four that love them (but they'll pretty much eat anything), and four that I can coax them into eating 1/3 - 1/2 of one at a time. I figured the sticky thing too, and it does help my four if I add a little water to it!

 

[lilas]

Re pilling: I had to pill Sherlock for the terbutaline and I followed Dr. Pierson's advice to get the Greenie's pill pockets and wrap a bit of it around the pill and give to him as a treat. OMG is that an AWESOME trick! I looked forward to giving him his pills because it was SO easy!! It makes me sad when vets tell me I have to give my cat liquid meds or anything else not a pill.

Yay for people willing to share a padded cell with me!! Sometimes I feel like I talk about my cat too much and should shut up. But on the other hand, I can't not talk about since it's really stressful. I just wish I KNEW what was wrong, you know?! If I know what it is, I can (possibly) treat it and then he'll be all better and that'll be that!! But this wondering and guessing and ARGH! So yeah. Glad I've found you all to share my obsessive cat lady behavior.

 

 

[vball91]

Obsessive cat ladies unite! I too am so happy to have found this site. It's great to be able to talk to people who understand. My H thinks I'm way too neurotic about Aria because she's my first pet.

I know what you mean about wanting to KNOW. I have also wished that she could tell me what's wrong. But we can only do our best with what diagnostic measures we have available.

 

[ldg]

I thank goodness for TCS because my husband is just as neurotic - in fact, more !! - than I am!

 

[lilas]

So, I took a pic of my boy crouching in the bathroom. What he's been doing is eating very enthusiastically and licking his lips very happily, and then he'll groom a little bit (face and chest mostly) and then go behind the door (or in that general area) and just crouch like that. Usually he'll look down at the ground or at me as I'm getting ready for work. He'll stay there for a good 5-10 minutes and then he'll walk off... Sometimes he licks his lips (not like after he just ate where his whole mouth is open but little flickers of the tongue). Is that him being nauseous?! Is that what your cats do when they had/have hairball?

I used to have this box from the container store in the bathroom where he liked to go into and put his head over the ledge so that the ledge was cutting into his throat, and he would swallow convulsively and then do the whole coughing/hacking/swallowing/retching-thing. But I took the box away because it seemed to me he was just making himself sicker by pressing his neck/trachea on the edge of the box. When he got the suspected URI he tended to go into the box to cough and be miserable, so I started wondering if maybe he didn't associate that spot and the box with being sick. The day I took the box away is when he stopped regurgitating (though he still did the hacking thing and he still goes to the bathroom to crouch).

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• lilas
• Jan 30, 2013

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Not to be disgusting here, but have you checked his little raw poopies to see if they are full of hair

?  Believe me, we who feed raw have done that a time or two, and even posted pictures of it

It's true!)  I'm just asking because that would let you know if his hairballs are coming out the right end or not

.  Technically, if everything is working correctly, they should come out the back end and not the front end, so if his stools are full of hair, then things are working properly.  The egg yolk and/or egg yolk lecithin should keep it all "primed".  (that is as long as his calcium level stays accurate.  With my furkids, every once in awhile, I have to add some plain old ground meat to the mix because they appear to get constipated - nothing to do with hairballs, just mentioning because it's all in the same digestive tract)

I'm wondering if what Sherlock is doing is more routine than anything else, since he goes in there to watch you get ready, runs off to play.  Does he do this with every meal, or just when YOU are in there too?

 

[lilas]

Yes! I have checked. To continue being disgusting, where can I see a pic? When I checked, I broke it apart and there was a thread-type thing in the poop, which I assumed was hair but am not 100% positive was actually hair. It seemed to be hair matted together -- it did not rip apart even when I tugged it. So if there was a pic to compare it to, I could tell you if it is hair... ((>.>))

And he's doing this after every meal, whether I'm there or not. He eats and then tends to disappear, and I go to the bathroom to check on him and he's usually crouched behind the door like that (I would say about 90% of the time). Though sometimes he just gets hyper after eating and will tear off running around the house.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Laurie, you're good about finding things

  Do you remember who posted that picture of hair in the poop?  I remember Gail was involved in the discussion, but don't think it was her thread.  Darn, it's just on the edge of my brain! (and seems like the discussion always took place around whose ever thread it was's dinner time

)

Anyway, Lilas, from what you describe, that sounds like matted hair alright

  Now as far as the hunching down in the bathroom 90% of the time, that one has me stymied.  (sorry)

 

[ldg]

Yep, sounds like matted hair to me! And I'm the one that posted they hairy poop picture, and it was in TobyTyler's thread. :lol3: I'll find a link to the post. But it was a slightly unusual one - it was clearly hair. Most of them are twisted tightly as Lilas just described.

About Sherlock's behavior... I hate to say it, but it does sound like he's a little nauseous. That lip smacking/lip licking when crouched like that usually means nausea. On the other hand... it also seems to be a passing thing, as he's not there for long and is otherwise acting normally.

I'd keep feeding him egg yolks while you wait for the egg yolk lecithin. Have we chatted about slippery elm bark powder yet? Because giving him that (use 1/4 slippery elm bark powder mixed into a tablespoon or so of either boiling water or a teaspoon of George's aloe vera juice) twice a week, or every other day if needed, may help keep things moving through. It's a fiber that both soothes and coats - it helps motility, and it has anti-inflammatory (and some antioxidant) properties. :nod: I'm giving it at least twice a week to my two kitties with the worst hairball issues, and to my cancer kitty, Lazlo, who had a mass in his stomach (and bleeding ulcers), so he has ongoing tummy issues.

I would hope that after a couple of weeks with egg yolks / egg yolk lecithin, and potentially with the SEB added, that this crouching would stop, as if it is a hairball problem, the hair should be moving through.

OK, now let me go find that post.

 

[ldg]

Yeah - this isn't a good representative picture of hairy poop. :lol3: This one is pretty loose hair with a poop shell. It's usually wound more tightly than this. :nod: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250579/starting-cold-turkey/120#post_3271231

 

[lilas]

Yes, you mentioned it briefly. Is there a particular brand you use? I wonder if I can find that in a store like Whole Foods or if I should just get it online. I should give him 1/4 teaspoon or tablespoon mixed with the tablespoon of boiling water? And should I mix it with his food? How do you do it? Also, got the probiotic and digestive enzyme today! Is the enzyme supposed to have little brown bits in it (see below)? 

Kitty seems better today - He was starving when I got home and jumped on the counter and tried to eat from the can. I had to pick him up and put him down. He also is playing well, though he started panting again. I have a feeling he is either still congested (but he only pants when playing) or that's just the way he is. Who knows. I'm trying to just calm down and not take him to the vet for every little thing. He is not coughing, some sneezes, he is eating and playing and talking. So.

I've decided that if he still hasn't regurgitated tomorrow, I'll start re-introducing him to raw food on Friday. Maybe go 0.20 oz at a time and see how it goes. 

THANKS FOR ALL THIS HELP! I'm not sure what I would have done without you guys. 

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• lilas
• Jan 30, 2013

 

[ldg]

Yep, that's how it looks! :nod:

And as to the SEB, I use it the way I was instructed to by my holistic vet. That is to use 1/4 teaspoon of the powder, mix it with one tablespoon of George's aloe vera juice. Let it gel up. I often add a little bit of water after that so it's not so thick, and then I mix it with meat juice and sprinkle powdered liver over the top, but it's a lot easier if he's eating canned food to just mix it with his meal. :lol3:

The reason for the George's is it isn't organic - organic aloe vera juice is very bitter - but it has no preservatives, which I think all the other non-organic brands do. It's pretty much available everywhere (meaning US and Canada).

I don't buy a brand of SEB. I buy both the George's aloe vera juice and loose slippery elm bark powder from the local health food store. It's much, much, much, much cheaper to buy it loose, if that's an option anywhere for you.

ETA: It's very possible the digestive enzymes will help too. :nod:

 

[lilas]

Do you add meat juice to make it appetizing to the kitty? And what do you mean by meat juice, exactly (like broth?)? I'll go get all of this during the weekend when I'm not coming home at 7pm to a starving cat. 

 For now I'll add this to his food, but once I switch back to raw, you recommend I just mix it with some meat juice and sprinkle enticing smelling powder on it? I had no idea they made powdered liver... Huh. 

 

 

[ldg]

Oh - I feed prey model raw, which is chunks of meat. Hard to mix a glop into it, and the kitties that need the SEB mixture don't like it. (Of course). So when meat dethaws, there's usually some watery run-off. I use that to make it more palatable, and a topper so they'll go for it. :lol3:

Are you feeding ground raw, commercial? If so, you can just mix it into that - it may need a little water added so it's not SO thick. :nod: But if you're feeding PMR (prey model raw), then yeah, you may have to use the "water juice"/topper method. It really depends on whether he likes it or not. Some kitties love it!

 

[lilas]

I am not confident enough to feed Sherlock WPM. I'm still working on getting the confidence in the ground food I make him. But maybe one day I'll get there. I feel like I would need a whole lot of hand holding to do WPM.

On that note, I can't wait to get Sherlock back on raw food if only so his poop will stop smelling! I'd forgotten how bad the smell if on canned food (not to mention how bad the smell of canned food itself is). 

 

[lilas]

Question!! Do you sprinkle the egg yolk lecithin every day, even those when you give a whole egg yolk? And do you recommend I sprinkle 1/2 a capsule and see if that helps him? I guess I might know if it helps with the nausea... I just gave Sherlock his second yolk sprinkled with some fortiflora and he DEVOURED it! He licked the bowl clean! I am impressed.

 

[ldg]

Well, it's always best to start slow. So I'd use 1/2 a capsule every other day at first. At this point, I use 1/2 a capsule daily for 6 of the cats, and 1 full capsule daily for the two with the worst hairball problem. But yes, I give them the egg yolk lecithin capsule every day, regardless of whether they're getting egg yolk or ground with the egg yolk mixed into it. :nod:

 

[lilas]

Happy report that Sherlock has decided the idea of raw egg yolk is a WONDERFUL one. I went to crack his egg today and he came running like his tail was on fire when he heard it crack. 

 It was kinda hilarious. He refused to eat it until I had sprinkled some fortiflora on it, but then he goggled it up He's also not hanging out behind the bathroom door as much, so yay! He also seems much more energetic and alert than he's been the past few weeks. So I'm taking that as a win! 

I also got the slippery elm bark today and George's aloe vera (they only had the elm bark in capsules, but 1/4 teaspoon is about one capsule, so it's not that annoying to measure out). One tablespoon of aloe seems like a lot! But I mixed it with the canned/raw mixture and he eventually ate it all. Do you give the mixture everyday? 

 

[ldg]

:lol3: Great he loves his new treat!

For the slippery elm bark powder, I'd start it at just twice a week. :nod: Seems like he won't need more than that, actually, as he's already not spending as much time behind the door. :rub: It is starting to look more and more like the issue was hair passage... :cross: ... and that
the egg yolk / lecithin is helping!