Help, Nursing Cat, Possible Behavioral Issue, Don't Know What I'm Doing

[kochumai]

Just a quick tip - you probably already know this - the temperature of the formula is important and should be 100°. Also, it should never be heated in the microwave because of the unevenness in heat distribution that can cause mouth burns, especially on baby's tender tissues. Either gently heat on the stove, stirring constantly and checking the temperature frequently or place the bottle in hot water. Burping after feeding is important as is stimulating to pee prior to bottle feeding - kittens are especially resistant to the taste of the rubber nipple when they have a full bladder.
I had donated some Miracle Nipples to rescues last year. I heard nothing but great reviews. The original supplier offers a "mini" size for neonates.
The Miracle Nipple Collection
You are a great co-mother! Your mama kitty sounds like she was too young to be a mom herself but with your help is doing a great job.

Honestly, I just can't find a way to feed him, it's just not working at all. I haven't tried the syringe yet.
So today, his 6th day, he's weighing 122g. That's very low for the 6th day right?
He gained 8g since yesterday so thatst good because before then he was only gaining a consistent 4g everyday.
But here's the problem.

Yesterday I was near their box all day and just worked on my computer next to it, making sure that the little guy was getting food. It worked since this is the first time I've seen him gain more than 4g since he's been alive.
But I can't do that everyday, some days they'll just have to be alone with her for a large portion of the day.
So this is a concern, coupled with the fact that I just am not able to feed him myself, he only eats from her.

So do you think he'll survive given his current weight and if he only eats from her?

Here's a picture of the little guy (next to his very big brothers).

I love him so much!

 

[kochumai]

How is the little guy doing today?

He gained 8g today, it's the first time I've seen him gain more than 4g, but it could be because I was next to the box all day yesterday, making sure he ate a lot. But I can't do that everyday day. And I just am not able to feed him myself. I watched the kitenk lady videos and followed the tips but he just wasn't having it and only wants to eat from her.
I've found out that there are so many risks with feeding newborns so now I'm a bit concerned with feeding him, hoping to not do anything wrong. He doesn't do the bottle, I haven't tried a syringe yet, but I'm a little afraid of it because I've read it can be dangerous and he feels very frail.

I'm really not sure what to do about him. Do you think he has a chance of surviving if he only feeds from his mom or do you think my intervention is totally necessary. Today, his 6th day, he's 122g.

Here's a picture of him (next to his very big brothers!)

I really love him!

 

[kochumai]

He gained 8g today, it's the first time I've seen him gain more than 4g, but it could be because I was next to the box all day yesterday, making sure he ate a lot. But I can't do that everyday day. And I just am not able to feed him myself. I watched the kitenk lady videos and followed the tips but he just wasn't having it and only wants to eat from her.
I've found out that there are so many risks with feeding newborns so now I'm a bit concerned with feeding him, hoping to not do anything wrong. He doesn't do the bottle, I haven't tried a syringe yet, but I'm a little afraid of it because I've read it can be dangerous and he feels very frail.

I'm really not sure what to do about him. Do you think he has a chance of surviving if he only feeds from his mom or do you think my intervention is totally necessary. Today, his 6th day, he's 122g.

Here's a picture of him (next to his very big brothers!)

I really love him!

*Only wanted to eat from his mom.

 

[lutece]

It's great that he gained a little more. It would be good to know exactly how you helped him when you say you were "making sure that the little guy was getting food." Does that mean that you moved him onto mom, or moved bigger kittens out of the way, or...?

I don't know if he will survive without your intervention. Sometimes runt kittens survive without any intervention, and sometimes they don't.

 

[kochumai]

It's great that he gained a little more. It would be good to know exactly how you helped him when you say you were "making sure that the little guy was getting food." Does that mean that you moved him onto mom, or moved bigger kittens out of the way, or...?

I don't know if he will survive without your intervention. Sometimes runt kittens survive without any intervention, and sometimes they don't.

I tried to ensure that she spent maximum time in the box and that at the very least he was latched and securely feeding almost always. If someone tried to get him off, I protected him, but that really didn't happen often. Mainly I just made sure that the mom spent as much time in the box as possible.
And if he nodded off on the nipple, I gently put him back on it since I wanted him to keep eating. He did. I'm not sure if that's bad or not and if I should have just let him sleep. I just wanted for him to really fill his belly up as much as possible. At some points he just fell asleep and was too tired to continue. I just let him sleep at those times.

 

[lutece]

It's good that he ate more. Whatever you can do to help him eat more is better. He would also benefit from some supplementation.

You can try getting a "miracle nipple" and syringe feeding with that. That might work better than the bottle for you.

I know it is scary to intervene because you worry you will do something wrong. However, it is not complicated as long as mom is keeping him warm and taking care of his elimination needs. You don't have to do everything that you would need to do with an orphan kitten. All you need to do is warm up the goat milk or formula and get some into his tummy.

Warming up the goat milk or formula is easy. I just fill a cup with hot water and then put the bottle or syringe in the hot water until the milk is warm. Squirt a few drops on your wrist to make sure it is not extremely cold or hot. The temperature doesn't have to be exact. The bottle / syringe just needs to be clean, you don't have to sterilize everything.

 

[catsknowme]

Awwww...so precious! I recommend having him nurse off mom as much as possible since her milk is better anyway. If you can swing it, I recommend Royal Canin Mother Cat & Baby Kitten to help your queen produce lots of rich milk. I had to buy that for a cat that I adopted who was already very pregnant but no one knew it & the local vet had to cancel spay dates until after the 6 kittens were born. I also gave her esbilac goat milk kmr. She was so thin - her former owner was in hospice and no one was paying attention to the cat.
And I would try to supplement the larger babies and keep the runt on mom. He does look younger and so will need the antibodies from his mom's milk more than the sturdier kittens.
It is frustrating that the mother needs you so that she will feed the babies. But there is a good chance that after you are gone awhile and she doesn't feed, she will become engorged and will nurse the kittens to get relief. Just to be on the safe side, I would "potty" them myself, especially for urine, before leaving for an extended period.
I would keep clear, "light" Karo corn syrup and unflavored Pedialyte (store brand is fine) on hand in case anyone has a "downhill slide". If they seem weak and lethargic, rub a bit of Karo on their gums and when they perk up, give a drop of pedialyte/filtered water (50/50 ratio) every few minutes. Be sure to keep them warm: wrapped in a purrito next to a heated rice-or-cornmeal sock (cornmeal also retains heat and is softer) to keep warm is a good idea until baby is stronger again. If you want to keep the baby on your chest, a folded towel between you and the heat sock helps you stay cooler.
Thank you for the update! I know it's lots of work but our little runt, Joe, pulled through after a few scares and is now the largest of the litter - 14 lbs, long and lean!

 

[lutece]

He does look younger and so will need the antibodies from his mom's milk more than the sturdier kittens.

It's good to try to get as much of mom's milk into him as possible, but it is only because of the nutrition in the milk, not antibodies. The mother cat only produces colostrum for the first couple of days, and after the first 12-48 hours of life, kittens are no longer able to absorb antibodies from mom's milk.

 

[kochumai]

Awwww...so precious! I recommend having him nurse off mom as much as possible since her milk is better anyway. If you can swing it, I recommend Royal Canin Mother Cat & Baby Kitten to help your queen produce lots of rich milk. I had to buy that for a cat that I adopted who was already very pregnant but no one knew it & the local vet had to cancel spay dates until after the 6 kittens were born. I also gave her esbilac goat milk kmr. She was so thin - her former owner was in hospice and no one was paying attention to the cat.
And I would try to supplement the larger babies and keep the runt on mom. He does look younger and so will need the antibodies from his mom's milk more than the sturdier kittens.
It is frustrating that the mother needs you so that she will feed the babies. But there is a good chance that after you are gone awhile and she doesn't feed, she will become engorged and will nurse the kittens to get relief. Just to be on the safe side, I would "potty" them myself, especially for urine, before leaving for an extended period.
I would keep clear, "light" Karo corn syrup and unflavored Pedialyte (store brand is fine) on hand in case anyone has a "downhill slide". If they seem weak and lethargic, rub a bit of Karo on their gums and when they perk up, give a drop of pedialyte/filtered water (50/50 ratio) every few minutes. Be sure to keep them warm: wrapped in a purrito next to a heated rice-or-cornmeal sock (cornmeal also retains heat and is softer) to keep warm is a good idea until baby is stronger again. If you want to keep the baby on your chest, a folded towel between you and the heat sock helps you stay cooler.
Thank you for the update! I know it's lots of work but our little runt, Joe, pulled through after a few scares and is now the largest of the litter - 14 lbs, long and lean!

Alright, thank you very much. I've ordered the miracle nipple and syringe, have checked out the related kitten lady video, and will be giving that a go with him. Till then, I'll be making sure he gets to be with his mom as much as possible. About the Royal Canin Mother Cat & Baby, is that cat food or formula or something like that? I searched and found cat food, I'll definitely try to get some of that for her, I've actually been trying to find very nutritious food for her to eat. So far I've just been giving her kitten food, sometimes I mix cat treats in it, sometimes I give her kmr; I read that the higher caloric intake she has, the better. I don't know if the cat treats are a super "healthy" choice, but I do it for the caloric factor, if it's actually hazardous for her I'll stop. So if you or anyone else has got any other food suggestions to make her milk rich, I'd love to hear them.

 

[lutece]

Royal Canin Mother & Baby Cat is cat food designed for nursing moms and young babies just starting to eat. It's a good food, although she's probably fine with any kitten food.

 

[catsknowme]

Royal Canin Mother & Baby Cat is cat food designed for nursing moms and young babies just starting to eat. It's a good food, although she's probably fine with any kitten food.

I agree that probably most kitten foods are fine. I have seen some great results with feeding RC Mother and Baby Cat but Purina ONE kittens also have that incredibly soft fur and seem to thrive well. Some of the feral colonies that I have cared for have done well on Purina Kitten Chow and Cat & Co Kitten, too.
I think that treats are a great idea! They do "pudge" up a cat and in my experience, it's nigh unto impossible to overfeed a nursing mother, whether she be cat, dog or human.

 

[kochumai]

Oh, great! I'm glad to know I can still end up mixing the kitty treats with the food, I was hoping it would have that sort of effect. I actually use the purina one wet kitten food for her now. I sometimes just mix up some kmr formula, kitty treats, and the kitten wet food all into one disgusting, fattening thing and she seems to like it. As long as it's helping her milk be good.
I'll look into the Royal Canin food which you mentioned too.

The little guy today is one week old and he weighs about 130g. I have my hopes up for him and am trying to have him be with his mom as much as I can.

 

[catsknowme]

Thank you for the updates! Every day is a victory and an answer to prayers! I have no doubt that all that good nutrition that you are providing to MamaCat is nourishing the babies as well. I am keeping my prayers up!
Please do not hesitate to ask questions or PM any one of us here with any concerns that may arise. It's a wonderful community

 

[kochumai]

Thank you! I have him in my prayers as well, I've even asked my own mom to pray for him. He's really small and already loved a whole lot. He's like a gray little mouse.

Today, he's just about 136g, so he gained about 6g since yesterday. On the small side of gaining, and he's still quite underweight for his age, but I've got my hopes up.
Still just am trying to give him much mom mom time and when the miracle nipple is in will be trying that.

For now, it's quite time consuming, I'm just trying to get as much work done by the box as possible so I can try to get him to spend as much time as I can with her.
There is one of the kittens who is literally the opposite of the little guy, the other one is like bionic kitten!
He just turned 8 days old and weighs 236g, I even heard him purring while on the nipple and I thought that they were only supposed to do that at 3 weeks. He's the strongest and most content of them all. He's going to be a really big, happy cat!

That's him with his slightly smaller but equally happy almost twin brother from 2 days ago.

And here's my sweet little guy.

 

[lutece]

I'm glad the little guy is still hanging in there. Hope he makes it!!

 

[catsknowme]

....cuteness overload! ..... that is one big kitten and check out those belly dots

And your little guy is looking very well, too! His face looks filled out which is a very good sign. He is the same gray as my own Silver who, at this moment, is sleeping on my lap.
Your mama cat is very pretty, too. She sure is alert when your are taking pictures.

 

[kochumai]

....cuteness overload! ..... that is one big kitten and check out those belly dots

And your little guy is looking very well, too! His face looks filled out which is a very good sign. He is the same gray as my own Silver who, at this moment, is sleeping on my lap.
Your mama cat is very pretty, too. She sure is alert when your are taking pictures.

Yeah, Kaya is pretty! She's also a really good cat. She has a really good attitude, is never moody and is always a very social kitty. She was found as a stray kitten by my step brother and we've had her ever since.

Just wanted to say, the miracle nipple really is a miracle! I didn't think I would have success but praise God I have and my little dude is eating. I'm now feeding him and am going off of a guide I found online. They are 10 days old now and he weighs only about 155g, just over 5oz.
The guide says to give a 5oz kitten 38ml per day and about 6ml per feeding. So I'm striving to give him more than half of that, giving him somewhere around 28ml per day; for the rest he can get his fill with his mommy.
It's a bit of a struggle for now, sometimes he protests, but after a few moments he starts suckling. Because of that, I can't tell when he's had his fill so I decided to give him a set amount each day. Once I see him gaining decent weight then I'll decrease it to a different amount or if he's not gaining, I'll do more daily feedings. We'll get it right.
Praise God it all worked out! I feel pretty optimistic about him now, was really concerned before, but he'll be alright.

Just want to say, I definitely recommend using the mini size miracle nipple. It's what I got for him and it's perfect and had him eating, which I thought would be impossible for him to do with me.

The rest are all happy, chubby little babies.
Here's a family portrait.

 

[kochumai]

 

[talkingpeanut]

So glad to hear that everyone is doing well!

Will you be able to spay Kaya after this litter has weaned? She can go into heat at any time now, and it might be a silent one where you don't notice, so it's important that she stays 100% inside now.

 

[kochumai]

So glad to hear that everyone is doing well!

Will you be able to spay Kaya after this litter has weaned? She can go into heat at any time now, and it might be a silent one where you don't notice, so it's important that she stays 100% inside now.

Yeah, I don't want to go through this again. I've really fallen in love with the kittens and it's going to be very hard giving them away. I'm going to try my best to find the best possible homes and will be keeping the little guy for myself.

I'll definitely be working to get her spayed as soon as I can. Thanks for letting me know.