Help, Nursing Cat, Possible Behavioral Issue, Don't Know What I'm Doing

[kochumai]

Hello, my cat gave birth on the 27th. I honestly almost have no idea what I am doing, essentially, regarding this litter.
There's something happening that is concerning, I don't know if it's an actual issue or not so I want someone knowledgeable to give me some insight please.
This is her first litter and she is almost a year old but not quite.

I read that cats typically are very protective of their litters, are nervous when people are around and that this is especially true is it's their first litter. That's not the case with our cat at all. She is extremely relaxed everytime that I'm around the litter, she let's me touch them and her and do almost anything that I'd want to them and she actually seems to maybe have grown dependent on me regarding the litter.

She definitely trusts me a lot, she was dependent on my presence to even give birth and only began labor once I was up, once I put her in her box and once I could stay and be with her in there. But now, it seems like she will only go to nurse the kittens when I am around and I get her situated in her box.
We have her in a mid/large sized bathroom, her box, food and litter box are in there and we keep her closed in there and periodically let her out to roam the house. This is because we have 2 other cats, so they're kept away from the kittens.

So whenever I go in the bathroom, she's almost never in the box with them and is almost always waiting by the door to be let out. So far, the only times I know that they're nursing is when I am in the bathroom and either she decided to go in the box or I put her there. I've spent large quantities of time in the bathroom with them all so that she would stay in that box and so that the kittens are able to get food.
She will get in the box if they're crying significantly, but usually they're not really crying a lot, not enough to stress her out. So basically, I'm concerned that when we close her in there and leave her, maybe she'll feed a little, but then maybe she gets out and just sits by the door the rest of the time since that's how I've been finding her every single time I've walked in when I hadn't helped her before hand.
I've only ever seen her nurse and keep doing it if she began it with my presence before hand. And when she does it, she always stares at me with this really dependent look.

So I'm just wondering, does it sound like she's dependent on me and my presence to nurse her babies? Does that even happen?

I was around for every single part of her birthing process and in general she's practically always felt extremely close to me otherwise as well.
It almost seems like she regards me as a natural part of her motherhood and expects me to be there when she's nursing. It's like she thinks that the way it's supposed work is that she nurses if I'm around and am right next to her. I know it may sound silly, but she really is quite attached to me. I hope that in reality she's feeding them when I'm not there and is not just by the door all the time.

I thought that she was supposed to be in the box all of the time but in her case she's really not and hasn't been like that from their birthday.

I really want the little ones to be strong and healthy and have all the proper sustenance that the need.

 

[kochumai]

I wanted to add, essentially, if I stay in the bathroom with them all then she'll get in and out of the box, but she will end up feeding her babies several times.
When I'm not in there, it seems like she's just by the door all the time, either waiting for me to come or to be let out, but not with them, since anytime anyone's opened the door, that's where she's been (unless she got in the box from an earlier time that I was in the room and was still in there).

I'm concerned the little guys aren't getting enough food. I also want to know how to break this dependency, if it's an actual issue, and have her be a normal mom.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Weighing the kittens daily will tell you if they are getting enough to eat. You want to see gains of at least 6-10 grams per day. Lots of cats prefer for their human to be around.

Are you able to keep mom inside and away from intact males? Do you need help finding a low cost spay/neuter clinic in your area?

 

[lutece]

It's quite likely that she hears you walking up to the door, and gets up to greet you.

Nursing moms don't have to stay in the box all the time. Newborn kittens nurse some of the time, and then sleep a lot. It's ok if they cry a little.

I agree with talkingpeanut , the best way to know if she is nursing the babies is to weigh them once or twice daily. If they are steadily gaining weight, everything is fine.

 

[kochumai]

It's quite likely that she hears you walking up to the door, and gets up to greet you.

Nursing moms don't have to stay in the box all the time. Newborn kittens nurse some of the time, and then sleep a lot. It's ok if they cry a little.

I agree with talkingpeanut , the best way to know if she is nursing the babies is to weigh them once or twice daily. If they are steadily gaining weight, everything is fine.

There are 5. Four are gaining more than 10g day, two have gained almost 20g since yesterday.
But there is one, the smallest one, he's only gained 4g since yesterday and the same the day before yesterday.
Should I start feeling him formula off the side?
If I do, will he be less likely to feed from Mom? I want him to go to mom a lot since she's got all of the necessary things and not to grow dependent on formula.
But the little guy does have me concerned.

 

[kochumai]

Also, he is the one who is always on the teat, when the other ones go away from it, he's still on. For someone who's eating so much, why is he barely gaining weight, is it a sign he's sick?

 

[lutece]

Yes, I would supplement the littlest one if he is gaining only 4 grams per day. I wouldn't worry about him becoming dependent on formula. If he gets some extra nutrition it will help him to become stronger and then he can nurse more effectively.

What are the weights of the kittens now? How far behind is he, compared to his litter mates?

 

[kochumai]

Yes, I would supplement the littlest one if he is gaining only 4 grams per day. I wouldn't worry about him becoming dependent on formula. If he gets some extra nutrition it will help him to become stronger and then he can nurse more effectively.

What are the weights of the kittens now? How far behind is he, compared to his litter mates?

When supplementing him, do I follow the dosing instructions that are on the box exactly for him or do you recommend something else?

 

[lutece]

What type / brand of formula are you using?

For supplementing kittens that are also nursing from mom, you prepare formula the same way as you would for orphaned kittens, but you don't have to feed as frequently (unless the kitten is really doing poorly). At each feeding, he can eat as much as he wants.

 

[Furballsmom]

Maybe these will help you in addition to the great advice you're receiving

Kitten-Rescue.com

The Essentials Of Kitten Nutrition

Saving Kittens — Kitten Lady

Hand Rearing Kittens: What You Need To Know To Save A Newborn's Life

 

[kochumai]

What type / brand of formula are you using?

For supplementing kittens that are also nursing from mom, you prepare formula the same way as you would for orphaned kittens, but you don't have to feed as frequently (unless the kitten is really doing poorly). At each feeding, he can eat as much as he wants.

I am about to go and buy some formula right now, I haven't yet. I planned to get the most expensive/high quality one. I'm just going to head to the local petco/petsmart and get it. If you have any suggestions on the kind, I'd love to hear them! I'll try to do a little of research before heading out.

Thanks a lot for your input already, I do appreciate it.

Thanks a lot to everyone else as well for all that you've mentioned!

 

[ArchyCat]

There is Kitten Milk Replacement (KMR) and goat's milk. If ups buy KMR, buy the powdered form. Then you mix jest the amount you need. And the in the powder form, it won't spoil, The liquid form requires refrigeration once opened and even then is only good fora few days.

My local Pet Smart also has goat milk. Good Luck!

 

[lutece]

KMR and goat milk are both fine. If you haven't bottle fed before, watch the kitten lady videos for tips on technique.

Try not to worry. It's pretty common in a litter of that size to have a small kitten that has trouble keeping up with its litter mates. You are just providing extra nutrition to help that kitten get stronger and catch up. If the other kittens are rapidly gaining, it sounds like mom has plenty of milk and is doing a good job, so you don't need to worry about mom's behavior or her milk production.

 

[kochumai]

KMR and goat milk are both fine. If you haven't bottle fed before, watch the kitten lady videos for tips on technique.

Try not to worry. It's pretty common in a litter of that size to have a small kitten that has trouble keeping up with its litter mates. You are just providing extra nutrition to help that kitten get stronger and catch up. If the other kittens are rapidly gaining, it sounds like mom has plenty of milk and is doing a good job, so you don't need to worry about mom's behavior or her milk production.

Hey, I really need help!
I weighed the kittens again today and the small guy once again only gained 4g while the other ones gained more than 10. I bought good quality KMR yesterday and tried to feed him but he wasn't having it. He found the bottle super alien and not at all what he was used to with his mom and just didn't want to eat from it, even when some of the formula would drip on his mouth. I tried my best to follow the instructions from the resources on here and other places and i'm sure it wasn't too hot or cold.
Basically, I have a couple of questions:

The bottle set directions said to cut a small x on the nipples, I did what Kitten Lady suggested and cut a hole instead, I think maybe the hole was too big. I'll do the X next time but I'm wondering, how do I make an X on those long nipple tips? Should an X be made on those or is the X only for the standard tips and the long one should just have the tip cut off?
Will a 5 day old newborn even eat off of the standard tip? My understanding was that those are too big since the don't look at all like his mom's so I opted for the long, skinny tip instead since it resembled his mom's the most.

How do I know about the amount that I need to make sure he's getting? Like would you recommend that he gets at least a tablespoon everyday no matter what and for the rest of the sustenance to rely on his mom or something along those lines?

Are these weights ok for 5 day old kittens?


little guy: 116g
2: 194g
3: 167g
4: 174g
5: 159g



Thanks a lot for yours and everyone else's help, I really love that little guy and want him to be ok.

I'll definitely be working to make sure to get our kitty spayed after all of this.

 

[lutece]

The weights on the bigger kittens are fine. You do want to see the little guy gain more weight, but it is good that he is still gaining at least a little bit from mom every day.

Is the little guy getting pushed off the nipple a lot by the bigger ones? You can try to rotate the kittens so that the smaller kittens get some time alone with mom while the bigger ones are sleeping in a warm nest.

It can be difficult to get kittens that are nursing on mom to drink from the bottle. You can try using a syringe or dropper. Just feed slowly so they don't get too much in their mouth at once. Here is kitten lady's video on syringe feeding
Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady
She is using a "miracle nipple" which is great, but in a pinch, you can even use a syringe with no nipple on it, or a dropper. You want to use a small syringe so you can easily control the flow.

 

[kochumai]

The weights on the bigger kittens are fine. You do want to see the little guy gain more weight, but it is good that he is still gaining at least a little bit from mom every day.

Is the little guy getting pushed off the nipple a lot by the bigger ones? You can try to rotate the kittens so that the smaller kittens get some time alone with mom while the bigger ones are sleeping in a warm nest.

It can be difficult to get kittens that are nursing on mom to drink from the bottle. You can try using a syringe or dropper. Just feed slowly so they don't get too much in their mouth at once. Here is kitten lady's video on syringe feeding
Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady
She is using a "miracle nipple" which is great, but in a pinch, you can even use a syringe with no nipple on it, or a dropper. You want to use a small syringe so you can easily control the flow.

Well, it's weird. He's not typically being pushed off, the other ones tend to leave him alone and will fight for nipples amongst themselves only. He actually basically always has one of the very back nipples all to himself and the others search out nipples in other areas but don't go to the back. Sometimes they do, the back nipples seem fine and like they've got plenty of milk. When the runt latches on one of those nipples, he's not struggling but is just usually passionately guzzling food. So it doesn't seem like he has a suckling problem or that those nipples are bad.
I'd say he spends the most time on her. For someone spending so much time on her and with such a good spot, I don't understand why he's not gaining much weight. Maybe he came out much more behind and malnourished than all the other ones and is still trying to catch up.


He feels so frail in my hands while the other ones feel nice and robust.

So if I use a syringe and very slowly and carefully force feed him, do I try and make sure he gets at least 1 tablespoon a day from me while his weight is like this?

Then should I resort to it being half when he's catching up, and sequentially less?

Thanks a lot for the input once again.

 

[lutece]

He may be a bit premature compared to the others. Kittens in a litter are not always conceived at the same time.

Try to get a little extra food into him several times a day, and see if he starts to gain faster. I wouldn't worry about the exact tablespoon amount per day at this point. I do like to weigh the kitten (in grams) before and after feeding it, so I can see if it ate anything.

I would also suggest trying some goat milk. He may like it better than the KMR. Some people also combine the KMR with goat milk (instead of using water) which makes it more concentrated and nutritious. I haven't done that myself, though.

 

[RejoiceErb]

Weighing the kittens daily will tell you if they are nursing. Maybe you could try setting up a camera in the room so you can check on them without coming in. It’s very possible that when your opening the door that mommy cat gets out of the box.

 

[catsknowme]

Just a quick tip - you probably already know this - the temperature of the formula is important and should be 100°. Also, it should never be heated in the microwave because of the unevenness in heat distribution that can cause mouth burns, especially on baby's tender tissues. Either gently heat on the stove, stirring constantly and checking the temperature frequently or place the bottle in hot water. Burping after feeding is important as is stimulating to pee prior to bottle feeding - kittens are especially resistant to the taste of the rubber nipple when they have a full bladder.
I had donated some Miracle Nipples to rescues last year. I heard nothing but great reviews. The original supplier offers a "mini" size for neonates.
The Miracle Nipple Collection
You are a great co-mother! Your mama kitty sounds like she was too young to be a mom herself but with your help is doing a great job.

 

[lutece]

How is the little guy doing today?