Help! Kitty with intestinal lymphoma won't eat!

[krashballz]

He's been like this since the ER visit Thursday night. That upset him so bad.
He goes back and forth between lying on his side, relaxed & on his tummy crunched up, in the meatloaf position. That position isn't abnormal for him though, so I can't tell if he's laying that way from discomfort or just because. When he's on his side, usually he'll roll his head under and sleep. But most of the day yesterday, his head was just hanging off the side of his bed like it fell there and he left it.
I just scratched his chin and he lifted his head, something he didn't do yesterday. He also followed me to the kitchen for food. Then he ate 3/4 of what I put down for him and went back to his bed. He doesn't seem to be as dazed as yesterday, but he's still not feeling it.
I'm trying to keep in mind how well he did the other day and that even on his bad days, he's not generally uncomfortable. But it's so hard to tell...I DO know this cat, And he knows me. He knows I'll be looking for signs, and I know he's going to hide them. Ugh! I wish I could just read his mind.
iloveprincess You're so right. I've tried to learn what all the side effects of his meds are so I can watch for & distinguish them. There is not much black & white though. Most of them have side effects that are things he was experiencing before he took the medication, so I can't tell anymore. I know I'm scared to give him any of it because I don't know what's doing what. I don't even know if any of it is actually helping or just making symptoms go away temporarily.
I'm not considering anything radical, mrsgreenjeens . As pessimistic as some of my last few posts sound, I'm really still hoping for the best. I just want my baby to feel better. And it's getting harder to trust the doctors when he doesn't seem to get better for more than a day.
May aunt says I should look into alternative medicine. She had good luck with that. She sent me a cancer support kit from a holistic pet care company in New Mexico called Vitality Science. It's basically herbal ani-inflammatory/ anti-oxidants. I tried giving it to him towards the beginning of all this, but I could only get the vital lipids (a vitamin oil suspension, basically) into him because it's liquid. The other stuff says to mix with food. It says that cats will like the taste of everything in the kit...clearly they've never met my cat. He hates everything that cats are supposed to love. The vital lipids did seem to help give him some energy, but he had diarrhea so bad, I couldn't keep giving it to him. It just aggravated his tummy. So I stopped after only 2 days. I did clear this with his vet, btw. I didn't just give him stuff without asking.
Anyway, I might start looking into some natural vets around here. It's Seattle, there has to be like a million of them here.
I appreciate all of you. Your knowledge, experiences and friendship through all this is so valuable to me.

 

[krashballz]

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• krashballz
• Oct 26, 2013

This was Krash most of the day yesterday & still this morning.
Ps-His bed isn't dirty, that's catnip. My sister swears he likes it in there. I can't argue because for all I know, he does.

 

[denice]

I know of a few people who have had good luck with Vitality Science.  It might be worth a try.  I would let your vet know about it before using it though.  He probably doesn't believe in it, many conventional vets don't, but he can look at the ingredients.  Some herbs don't mix well with some medications.

 

[karen fitch]

I am sorry you are having trouble with the meds. I have a dog who has seizures and I have to give her phenobarb twice daily. I put the pills in a macrojet with some water to dissolve , make sure they are dissolved and put them in the side of her mouth to avoid aspiration.discussed with vet, he was fine with it. Have also nursed kittens back to health with food in the macrojet and just born milk in macrojet.good luck

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I know when @LDG 's Lazlo was being treated for Lymphoma, she definitely used some Chinese herbs, as well as chemo, and, happily, Lazlo is still doing great. PLUS, if I didn't already mention this, she used an Animal Communicator before starting chemo, to make sure Lazlo was up for the task.  (sorry, I know I mentioned it to someone, now can't remember who

.  Anyway, the one she used was in Colorado, I believe, and LDG is on the East Coast, which is clear evidence that you don't have to have the animal physically there).  But, being in Seattle, not only should there be many holistic Vets, there are probably some Animal Communicators as well. 

 

[krashballz]

Oh my gosh- I'm so glad you said that...I have considered trying to find an animal communicator, but thought everyone would think I'm nuts. I really believe that they can help figure out what the animal is saying. Years ago, I did some Reiki-ish energy work with Krash and since then, I really feel like we're more connected spiritually. But right now, my mind is so hazy and full of confusion & emotion, I can't seem to tap into that.
I'm going to take the cancer support kit my aunt sent me to his oncologist for her to check out. I kind of feel like she'll be ok with me trying to give it to him one more time. And now that he's eating, it might be more effective than the last time I tried.
Thank you

 

[iloveprincess]

Tigger is showing extremely similar symptoms as Krash. I had to laugh when you said his bed isn't dirty, it was simply cat nip. Tigger's bed is the same way, except he has no interest in cat nip now . I was feeling so hopeless yesterday, but Tigger seems pretty good today. So, I guess just accept that there will be good days and bad, and try not to make any snap decisions until you start noticing a steady pattern of bad days. 

Good luck with the cancer support kit, that sounds like an interesting option. I'd also be interested in hearing about your experiences with reiki or an animal communicator if you go down that route. I can't afford that myself, but am interested in alternative therapies. Good luck!

 

[krashballz]

I keep thinking back to when Krash's Dr told me that I should watch for him to stop enjoying his 3 favorite things. It's hard to pick just 3, but if I had to guess, I'd say cuddling, going out on the balcony to watch people & birds, and grooming. He's one of those cats that can't stand to be "dirty." He'd spend a major portion of his day just bathing. And then bathing again. He hasn't bathed himself in almost 3 days. Same with wanting to go outside. And tonight, I picked him up & tried to snuggle up on the couch with him and he got away like I was trying to trap him. Normally, I don't even have to invite him to sit with me. By the time I sit, he's there waiting. He used to be the loudest, most boisterous cat. He talked to EVERYBODY- The mailman, the neighbors, other animals, himself lol. He just never shut up. Now, for 3 days, he just stares, completely silent. I get a little mew out of him here and there. He looks like his spirit is just broken. He's not the cat I knew before.
I had to mix his pred with water tonight and syringe it. He's fighting the pills like he's never fought before. He growled at me. For the first time in 14 years. And he was wheezing and trying to catch his breath when I was trying to give him the pill. He was making choking sounds when there's no way I was choking him. It's a different kind of fighting now.
I just don't know what to do. I don't feel like this is just a bad day or two. He's different.
I did find an animal communicator. I may try to call her tomorrow morning. It's only $45 for a half hour session. A a broke as I am now, I could swing that. Although, I don't feel like I need her really. I just feel like I wish someone else would tell me that what I'm thinking is ok. That Krash thinks it's ok. Because that's all I really care about.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Oh dear.  Do you think he's still under the influence of the sedation, possibly?  I know it's been several days now, but with the staring at nothing, etc, it kind of sounds like it.  And I know the older they are, the longer it takes filter out of their system (at least for humans).  Is he wheezing and coughing any other time then when you are trying to give him his meds?  I really don't like the sounds of that.  What meds are you still giving him right now, and why?  I know he isn't getting the leukeran again for another 10 days or so, so what are these other meds for?  (just wondering if he could skip them without too much harm, just to give him a break)

Remember that Quality of Life Scale I linked to in my first post?  You can always refer to it again.  Gosh, I feel so helpless

.  Here he was doing SO GOOD just a couple of days ago, and now this

Is he still eating?  If so, then I don't think he's ready to give up yet

 

[krashballz]

I think the sedation is playing a small part in the way he's acting. That's why I'm trying not to be too over reactive. My problem with that is nearly every time I take him to the vet for tests & whatnot, they want to sedate him because he's easier to handle. He doesn't need this. I don't want him to be this way every other week for however much longer he makes it.
He wheezes the worst when I try to pill him. He had a sort of rattle at the end of his breaths yesterday morning, but that seems to have subsided. He's still on metronidazole 2x a day and Cerenia once a day, aside from his pred 2x a day. I haven't given him anything but pred for 2 days now. I mixed it with water and syringed it. I'm afraid that maybe I damaged his throat giving him pills? I shoot a tiny bit of water after I do the gelcap of pred just so it doesn't get stuck in his throat. I try to be careful because I know if I'm not, it can go down the wrong pipe.
He is still eating, so that's one bright spot. I asked him this morning if he was done trying, and he actually stood up, walked to the edge of his bed and put his hands on my leg, and laid down, half in bed half on my lap. And later he went and sat by the balcony door. It's cold & rainy so if he has something lung related, I don't think he should go out, but I picked him up and took him to watch birds for a minute. He seemed satisfied with that and then went back to bed.
We have an appt tomorrow morning at his regular vet. Maybe they can get x-rays of his chest without having to sedate him. The ER dr called and said he has mild anemia but nothing to freak out over, and his WBC is a little high meaning there might be a need for antibiotics. We'll see what his vet recommends in the morning.
His score is a lot lower on the quality of life scale than a few weeks ago. But it's still above 20, which is close to the bottom. I do keep going back to that. It's been one of my most valuable resources.

 

[jcat]

I really feel for you. We lost our last cat to HCM on March 1st, after well over a year of good days and bad days. There were a number of times when I thought it was the end, but my husband urged me to wait, and Jamie rallied. As long as there were far more good days than bad, the fight continued. When it really was the end, we both knew it. He just had no fight left in him. All you can really do is follow your heart and instincts. Krash could really be telling you it's time.

 

[denice]

All three of those medications are the normal ones given for an IBD flare.  I too question the need for that all that sedation.  I understand it would be needed for the IV type of chemo but not for normal exams.  Vets that are very good with cats usually only use it when absolutely necessary and of course for ferals.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well, his reactions today sound a little better than the picture I saw in my mind from your earlier post.  I used to ask my Sven the same thing and if I got a reaction like you did, I was a happy camper

.  In my own mind, I felt like he knew what I was asking, because (I think I already told you this) I always asked him when he was refusing to eat, and he would then always jump up and start eating

  That response was clear as a bell to me..."no momma, I'm not ready to go to the bridge yet!".

If memory serves,the metro is really nasty, right?  So you can't get away with hiding that in his food.  But what about the Cerenia and/or the pred?  Could you you dissolve it in the water like you did earlier and stir it into a little bit of stinky fishy cat food, let him eat that little bit, then feed him more, after you're sure he got his meds?  Are there any treats he really likes that maybe you could get away with hiding the metro in just once?  I'm thinking a slice of turkey, piece of hotdog , tiny bit of liverworst, even peanut butter or cream cheese?  Our Vet suggested all those things because Sven was impossible to pill.  I wonder if he would take it with the salmon flavored cream cheese?  Not crushed, but whole, so that maybe he would swallow the pill whole and not taste it? 

Well, anyway, I'm feeling better after your last post, and I hope you are two, since he put his little feet on your leg to let you know he still cares

If he's got some sort of infection going on right now, he probably just feels bad and then with your icky weather, etc. it's just gloomy all the way around.  Do you have those daylight spectrum lamps.  If so, turn those babies on and you should ALL huddle under them!  Get a good book and read out load to Krash (but something YOU enjoy to take your mind off his health for awhile

.)  Then tomorrow let us know how the Vet visit went.

 

[dan32]

I had been very reluctant to get Kinney x-rayed and ultrasounded, because my regular vet (a one man with assistant operation) routinely knocks them out for procedures.  Kinney was very weak at that point and I didn't trust him under anesthesia.

Later, I ended up getting both of those procedures done at the ER (big time animal hospital) and they told me they NEVER put them under for x-rays or ultrasounds due to the risk to the animal - but then they had plenty of extra hands around.

Don't forget you can get his medicines made up into flavored suspensions at the compounding pharmacy, although it sounds like you may be able to go into the compounding business yourself.

 

[denice]

Patches has never been sedated for x-rays.  Even with an ultrasound with a needle biopsy on his liver she used a local.  He has never been sedated.  He's had anesthesia of course.  He's had it 3 times, for a dental, to have a feeding tube put in and for his neuter.

 

[iloveprincess]

Okay, that just pisses me off. Tigger was having breathing problems and was extremely ill and weak when he was there for his ultrasound on Thursday. He is the sweetest, tamest cat, but they sedated him. Had they asked me if it was okay, I would have said no, and not gotten the ultrasound. Thank god he came out of it okay. They also must have cut his little nipple when they shaved his belly because it was bleeding. Grrrr

I'm so very sorry to hear about Krash. It really sounds like you are struggling with a very hard decision. I mean, anyone who is sick will stop enjoying their favorite activities, it doesn't mean it's a permanent situation. He is on a lot of meds, which makes it so hard to determine what's really going on. Maybe talk more with your vet about this?

 

[krashballz]

 
Well, his reactions today sound a little better than the picture I saw in my mind from your earlier post.  I used to ask my Sven the same thing and if I got a reaction like you did, I was a happy camper

.  In my own mind, I felt like he knew what I was asking, because (I think I already told you this) I always asked him when he was refusing to eat, and he would then always jump up and start eating

  That response was clear as a bell to me..."no momma, I'm not ready to go to the bridge yet!".

If memory serves,the metro is really nasty, right?  So you can't get away with hiding that in his food.  But what about the Cerenia and/or the pred?  Could you you dissolve it in the water like you did earlier and stir it into a little bit of stinky fishy cat food, let him eat that little bit, then feed him more, after you're sure he got his meds?  Are there any treats he really likes that maybe you could get away with hiding the metro in just once?  I'm thinking a slice of turkey, piece of hotdog , tiny bit of liverworst, even peanut butter or cream cheese?  Our Vet suggested all those things because Sven was impossible to pill.  I wonder if he would take it with the salmon flavored cream cheese?  Not crushed, but whole, so that maybe he would swallow the pill whole and not taste it? 

Well, anyway, I'm feeling better after your last post, and I hope you are two, since he put his little feet on your leg to let you know he still cares

If he's got some sort of infection going on right now, he probably just feels bad and then with your icky weather, etc. it's just gloomy all the way around.  Do you have those daylight spectrum lamps.  If so, turn those babies on and you should ALL huddle under them!  Get a good book and read out load to Krash (but something YOU enjoy to take your mind off his health for awhile

.)  Then tomorrow let us know how the Vet visit went.

I'm going to try all of those tricks in just a few minutes. Yes, I've heard as well that the Metro is really gross, so hopefully one of them will work. He does need the meds if I can get them into him without any stress.

I do feel better since he gave me some sort of reassurance this morning. He's walked over to me twice more today, almost jumped up to sit with me, then changed his mind and went back to bed. He's trying...

Quote:
LOL, No kidding right? Just now, I made a chicken broth (don't worry, no onions or garlic)/prednisolone mix that I gave him. He seemed to tolerate that a little better than just straight water/pred. I'm going to talk to his vet in the AM about calling in compounded prescriptions for ANY of his meds that can be compounded into liquid, cream, whatever. I'm done with pills. The only reason I agreed to any of these treatments is because he was doing so well with Pill Pockets. Now, he won't touch those. So I'm developing Plan B 

 
Patches has never been sedated for x-rays.  Even with an ultrasound with a needle biopsy on his liver she used a local.  He has never been sedated.  He's had anesthesia of course.  He's had it 3 times, for a dental, to have a feeding tube put in and for his neuter.

They shouldn't   have sedated him. I told them that on Thursday night. I was almost begging them not to because I know how hard it is on him. His regular vet only sedates/anesthetizes (sp?!) him when absolutely necessary, which is only for dentals. Even though he's skinny now, he's still a big kitty, and boy, does he look mean when he needs to. So a lot of vets get scared when he starts hissing and growling. But the simple fact that I begged her not to (just to draw blood and urine) should have meant something.

I am sticking with my idea that the ER Dr had no idea what she was doing the other night. She has called me everyday since then. She tells me yet another thing that might be wrong with him, then reminds me that she can't say for sure because I refused to leave him with her for 24 hr observation. In one 6 minute phone call today, she managed to remind me twice that I declined proper treatment for Krash, and tell me 3 times that it might be time for me to "consider humane euthanasia." 

  I'm sorry?  I have no doubts about the way I am caring for my cat, nor do I have any regrets about decisions I've made thus far. I don't think It's appropriate for her to be saying these things to me. Out of 5 vets that have seen Krash, not one has recommended euthanasia so far. Of course they tell me it's an option, and will one day likely come to that, but this lady is outta hand.

 

[krashballz]

Quote:

 
Okay, that just pisses me off. Tigger was having breathing problems and was extremely ill and weak when he was there for his ultrasound on Thursday. He is the sweetest, tamest cat, but they sedated him. Had they asked me if it was okay, I would have said no, and not gotten the ultrasound. Thank god he came out of it okay. They also must have cut his little nipple when they shaved his belly because it was bleeding. Grrrr

I'm so very sorry to hear about Krash. It really sounds like you are struggling with a very hard decision. I mean, anyone who is sick will stop enjoying their favorite activities, it doesn't mean it's a permanent situation. He is on a lot of meds, which makes it so hard to determine what's really going on. Maybe talk more with your vet about this?

I do have a big decision to make & I'm scared to make it. I want to be well informed before I consider anything, no matter which way I go. I plan to talk to his regular vet tomorrow and to his oncologist on Friday.

His oncologist is within the same medical group as the ER I took him to that I'm having issues with, so I'll definitely be bringing that up. Never had a problem with them before this one lady. They didn't sedate him for his ultrasound or his x-rays previously, but  she felt it was necessary to do it just for a blood draw?! They did cut his little nipple when they shaved him though. He had a scab for about a week. His hair still hasn't grown in and it's been a month now

Hope Tigger is feeling alright today

 

[iloveprincess]

Sedation for a blood sample and in his condition? That's ridiculous. Did they try a blanket? I'm sorry Krash had his little nipple cut, too. 

I really really am sorry you are dealing with this. It's excruciating, I know. I was actually online last night researching prices for house calls (to euthanize my baby). He is doing well today, so I'm going to take that as a message to hold off. I actually was desperate enough to call a radio show last night about Tigger. They told me that if he isn't resisting his meds and injections, then he is telling me he has some fight left in him. Poor Krash seems to be going through so much. I'm going through the same thing. Feel free to message me if you need to talk. 

 

[happybird]

I wish I could give you a hug.
There has been so much good advice given already, I just wanted to add one thing and it is hard to say. My dog passed away a few months ago from cancer and went downhill fast. The last three days basically consisted of me having to force his pills and food into him. Looking back, I now realize when he gave up and was ready to go, but my husband and I kept hoping he would perk up and stay with us a while longer. This is the hard part- I regret that my last bit of time with Waylan was spent force feeding him pills he hated and food he didn't want. I loved him so much and I wish I would have realized what he wanted and not done what I did because of my fear of losing him. It hurts so bad and is such a hard decision to have to make.
I guess I am saying to you that Krash will let you know when it is time. You have to decide if any treatment you provide is truly for his benefit or if it is merely prolonging the inevitable.
I am so sorry you are going through this
Of course, you know your cat better than anyone and he may not be to this point. I just don't want you to have the same regrets I have. Please know that I am praying for you both and sending vibes your way.