Help!! Beloved Cat Just Diagnosed with Pancreatitis/Kidney Failure

[iloveprincess]

How sad about Poppy . There has been so much sad news on the forum about sick kitties. I wish we never had to deal with these kinds of illnesses. 

Msgreen, I was giving Tigger 1/4 tsp twice daily, as well. It was ineffective in the past, but I may try it again. I read about slippery elm, and almost ordered it the other day, but am strapped for money right now. I usually give Tigger his fluids, daily. Every once in a while, I skip a day, just so that I'm not drowning him in fluids or if he doesn't seem dehydrated. Does your kidney kitty pee insane amounts? It is really becoming a hassle cleaning the litter box... the entire thing is pretty much one big sludge clump. 

Dan, interesting that you never noticed constipation issues with your CKD cats. I guess every cat is different. I think IBS (in humans) creates symptoms that alternate between diarrhea and constipation. I've also read that there is an emotional/stress connection to humans and IBS. I'm not sure how that compares to IBD in cats. Also, interesting about the possible thickening of the intestines, that would be good information to know. 

Holistic, I was referring to Sebastian's maintenance dosage of pred.

Okay, so something strange is happening. i have been using a smaller gauge needle when giving Tigger his fluids. I notice that he cries when I stick him with the smaller needle, when he never did before. I don't understand why when everything else should be the same, and there should be less pain with a smaller needle. Anyone else have this experience?

 

[denice]

Patches has always been prone to constipation with IBD.  He is 10 years old, started with IBD flares at 18 months, and has never had a bout of diarrhea.  She wasn't able to diagnose IBD from two ultrasounds.  Sometimes it can't even be diagnosed with a biopsy.  Patches had the types of flares that had to be treated because he couldn't keep anything down.  Giving steroids gives a false result on the biopsy because it clears up the inflammation.

Hopefully you will be able to continue to get the prednisolone.  Patches used to take 5 mg daily until the vet couldn't get it anymore.  That's why he was switched to the dexamethasone.  She has just kept him on the dex because the supply is so iffy.  The supply issues don't seem to be nationwide like they were before but more regional.  I think at the present a lot of people are having problems getting the prednisolone.  If you can still get it you might want to consider getting stocked up on it.

 

[goholistic]

Holistic, I was referring to Sebastian's maintenance dosage of pred.
Okay, so something strange is happening. i have been using a smaller gauge needle when giving Tigger his fluids. I notice that he cries when I stick him with the smaller needle, when he never did before. I don't understand why when everything else should be the same, and there should be less pain with a smaller needle. Anyone else have this experience?

Ah, okay. Right now he's on 5 mg daily of pred.

Hmm...that is weird that he is crying out when you stick him with the smaller needle. Poor guy. Do you think maybe the area is sore? Can you part his fur and look at the skin to make sure it doesn't appear red or raw? Does the needle tip seem to be more blunt perhaps? 

  I use the larger needles because it flows faster and we're done in 5 minutes. I'm sure the fluid therapy is for the CRF, too, but perhaps give him a break for a day. 

  I'm doing fluids for Sebastian every three days now (instead of every two days).

 

[maureen brad]

iLove princess. Thank you for your kind words. I absolutely identify with what you are saying. It did take what Ziggy went through for me to become so proactive. I started really researching 1 month into it but he was so far gone....I hope all the best for you and your kitty. It hurts when they are sick, I know. My cat Remy had surgery last week and I was so nervous...I also got 2 opinions before going forward with treatment. Lol, I looked up those you tube videos on the subject myself- yuck! I was thinking back and Ziggy was very constipated when he had Pancreatitis and considering the vet gave no meds in the beginning it had nothing to do with medication. I ended up squeezing some hairball gel onto his front paw. I knew he would lick it off. It did work.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

What kind of needles are you using?  I used Terumo 19 gauge.  They are the best that I know of.  Very sharp, small gauge, but liquid flows very fast because of the way they are hollowed out. 

Yes, cats on fluids pee a TON

.  After

Sven

died, I thought something must be wrong with all the other cats, because there was so little pee in the boxes

.  I even posted about it

.  We were converting all the cats to raw at the same time, and I asked if cats eating raw hardly ever peed

(I just couldn't get used to one or two pees per cat per day)  Anyway, if you are finding the litter to be a "big sludge clump", may I suggest you get at least one additional box?  That way at least it's getting spread around.  Plus Tigger doesn't have to travel so far to that box when he may be in a real hurry to go

  None of our boxes ever got to be sludge clumps though...we just made sure we scooped them morning and night, and added new litter OFTEN. 

 

[iloveprincess]

Interesting, I was not aware that there is a Pred shortage. Denice, have you tried to order your Pred online when your vet couldn't get it, or are you happy with Dex?

Maureen, how is Remy? What was the surgery for? It sounds like a stressful time. Hopefully Remy is on the mend and you are doing well. 

Holistic, do you scruff test Sebastian the days he doesn't get fluids? I would like to only give Tigger fluids every 3 days, but he is always dehydrated the next day. I think it has more to do with his kidney disease, though. 

The needles I use are Terumo 21 gauge. I tried to look at his skin for redness, but I couldn't really see it through his fur (or what I could see looked white). I have no idea what the issue is. It also takes a much longer time to give him his fluids, so the process is becoming more challenging, every time. Thanks for the tip, MsGreenJeans, I will definitely order 19 gauge next time. I don't have the money to return the box of 100 I just bought . 

Yeah, regarding the sludge, it's a combination of a small litter box, Tigger's kidney disease, and the excess fluids. I don't think the excess peeing is mostly a result of the fluids though, since the large amounts of pee happened long before I started him on fluids (what alerted me to the possibility of kidney disease). I live in a SUPER small place in the city, so I really only have the option of having 1 litter box. I keep changing litter, hoping that will help, but they all turn into sludge and stick to the sides. Any litter recommendations would be appreciated.

I have to also say that IF Tigger has IBD, I think my changing his wet food from Wellness (with guar gum and carrageenan) to Nature's Variety duck and pea (guar gaum and carrageenan-free) has also contributed to him getting better. So, I would recommend anyone that has a kitty with allergy/tummy issues, try that brand.

 

[denice]

He has done well on the dex.  The last time I checked just out of curiosity I couldn't find it online.  I know another person on this site couldn't find it.  Her vet gave her the last little bit of prednisolone that he had.

 

[goholistic]

Holistic, do you scruff test Sebastian the days he doesn't get fluids? I would like to only give Tigger fluids every 3 days, but he is always dehydrated the next day. I think it has more to do with his kidney disease, though.

I do, and he's usually fine, so I don't give him fluids any more than what the doc recommends so as not to overdo it. She wanted me to bring it down to every three days (which is essentially twice a week). She told me to increase it to every other day if he's not feeling well, and every day if he's in the middle of a full-blown flare. I think if Tigger is dehydrated, then you should do it...within reason. If the fluids have not yet absorbed from the previous session, I would hold off a day. The needles I use are 18 gauge, which are even larger. Would you be able to get a couple of 19 or 18 gauge from the vet so that you can try them before buying a whole pack?

Sebastian does pee more. For him it's a combination of the fluids and the prednisolone (which, as a side effect, increases thirst and urination). And, of course, he always pees in the same spot in the litter boxes (I have two), so by the time I get home from work, there's a large spot of sludge. The clumping litter can only clump so much if it is oversaturated. I scoop morning and night.

If there are no food allergies involved, I do think the Nature's Variety limited ingredient varieties are a good choice.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

 
Yeah, regarding the sludge, it's a combination of a small litter box, Tigger's kidney disease, and the excess fluids. I don't think the excess peeing is mostly a result of the fluids though, since the large amounts of pee happened long before I started him on fluids (what alerted me to the possibility of kidney disease). I live in a SUPER small place in the city, so I really only have the option of having 1 litter box. I keep changing litter, hoping that will help, but they all turn into sludge and stick to the sides. Any litter recommendations would be appreciated.

I don't pretend to know your living arrangement, but could you possibly get at least a larger litterbox to replace the smaller one?  One thing we did was get a large rubbermade (or whatever from Target) storage bin and cut an opening in the front and lined it with duct tape and use that as one of our litter boxes.  I was forced to do that because Tinky is a digger and throws litter everywhere!  So this box is about 18 inches high everywhere except for the opening.  And since the storage containers come in lots of different colors, and so does duct tape, you could probably match it up to your decor

  (BTW, I do NOT use the lid so it's still completely open on top)  It was a pain to cut the opening (had to use tin snips), but was well worth it.  One of our other boxes is a jumbo litter box from Petco.  It actually sits in our Master Bathtub, but since we have a separate shower, that's what we end up using.  When necessity requires it, you make do, that's my motto. 

As to litter, I have found the best for non-perfumy, clumps well, is Tidy Cat 24/7 Performance Clumping Litter.  It's in the red top tub.  Target has it on sale frequently.  I think I got a 35 lb tub for $11.99 last time.  When you first pour it out it's got a slight scent, but, thankfully, it goes away quickly.  I can't stand a perfumy cat litter

 

[dan32]

As kidney disease develops, they drink more water on their own and pee more as a result.  By the time you are giving sub-q at home, that is in addition to their CKD increased thirst.  It's funny, like Mrsgreenjeans - I had two elderly CKD cats a few years ago and the litterbox was clogged with giant clods.  Once I got three new kittens, the giant clods turned into tiny little peas.  I could hardly believe the difference.  Now as those kittens are getting older, the tiny pea clods are about the size of lemons.

I was for years a faithful TidyCat buyer and have almost 100 yellow buckets to prove it.  At some point a few years ago, TidyCat switched from a naturally mined (sandlike) clay product to an artificially created "perfectly round balls" formulation.  The clods with the new stuff was just sticky muck that stuck to the litterbox sides.  I complained bitterly to Nestle about the switch, then never bought TC again.  Having a CKD cat (let alone two) qualifies you as a kitty litter afficianado.

After defecting from TidyCat, I tried almost every kitty litter made before settling in on ExquisiCat Fragrance-Free Scoopable - a heavy dense naturally mined clay litter that clumps pretty well and doesn't travel around the house like the perfectly round balls.  Unfortunately, ExquisiCat is a brand only found at PetSmart, so I have to go there to buy it.  It is this: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12633701

I was using pink gauge 21 needles, which were easy to insert.  Even after giving sub-q extensively, I never did get my nursing degree and graduate to the thicker needles.

Who would think that Wellness, the grand-dad of high grade canned cat foods would be on the banned list from additives?

 

[iloveprincess]

Interesting about the pred shortage, I had no idea. Maybe I will try to stock up when I run out. 

Thanks very much for the feedback and replies, especially the litter recommendations. I'm glad I'm not alone with the pee sludge mess. It sounds like there are mixed reviews about Tidy Cat and one vote for ExquisiCat. I used Tidy Cat a long time ago, before Tigger had kidney problems and have never used EquisiCat, I may try to get my hands on those next time around. Tigger's litter box is currently under the bathroom sink , which is a pretty tiny space (logistically, the only place I can keep it). At first, I had a giant, deep litter box for him (without high sides on it), but I found that he was missing his mark and peeing all over the place. So, I ordered a smaller litter box with high sides and no top. I may retry the larger box, but I honestly don't know if there is much I can do. It is hard to describe the volume of pee he produces (each clump is about 6 lemon-sized clumps). I'd guesstimate that he pees about 15 ounces per day. 

The other day was a bit nerve-wracking. I thought Tigger was about to flare-up as he was displaying many of the symptoms he had prior to his original flare--eating less, acting agitated, etc. I thought I was just being paranoid, but low and behold, he ended up vomiting later that evening (the first time he vomited since starting the pred). I remember reading that digestive enzymes (I recently started him on Prozyme) can either help or harm kitties with pancreatitis. I've since stopped the Prozyme and his vomiting has ceased/he appears to be back to normal. Who knows if the Prozyme was the culprit for the vomiting or other symptoms, but I'm not going to risk it. 

I'm not saying Wellness isn't a good brand, it's better than a lot of others out there. For sensitive kitties, their food just contains some questionable ingredients. It's entirely possible that Tigger would've improved regardless of diet, with the fluids and medications. 

I think I will have to finish off this box of needles. I've tried sticking Tigger lower on his spine, which appeared to do the trick (he didn't cry when pricked lower), but he proceeded to cry the next time I tried the same method. He tolerates it well, despite the apparent pain. Once the needle is in, he purrs and seems to enjoy getting the fluids. The vet clinic charges for needles, so these will have to do for now. Dan, what is the benefit of graduating to larger needles? I assume the larger needles administer the fluids a lot faster?

Thankfully, no more scooting or blood, so I guess his anal sacs are okay 

 

 

[dan32]

I was happy with the gauge 21 needles, very fine and with the thin wall not too slow for me.  It would take about 20 min. to transfuse 100ml.  Maybe I wasn't that great of a "sticker", so thinnest was my choice.  I tried using the 18's and it was like stabbing a skewer or something.

My vet would charge for whole bags of Ringer's, charge for a line set (tubing), but his needles were free.

My dentist uses ultra-fine needles for novacaine and he is the best ever.  His stick is slow and deliberate.  That is from the receiving end - best needle giver ever.

I used to do some in the abdomen also.  When they get older, they have that saggy spot.

 

[goholistic]

The other day was a bit nerve-wracking. I thought Tigger was about to flare-up as he was displaying many of the symptoms he had prior to his original flare--eating less, acting agitated, etc. I thought I was just being paranoid, but low and behold, he ended up vomiting later that evening (the first time he vomited since starting the pred). I remember reading that digestive enzymes (I recently started him on Prozyme) can either help or harm kitties with pancreatitis. I've since stopped the Prozyme and his vomiting has ceased/he appears to be back to normal. Who knows if the Prozyme was the culprit for the vomiting or other symptoms, but I'm not going to risk it.

I know a lot of people use Prozyme and have had great success with it. I have no doubt that it is a great product, but one of the main reasons I decided to not try it was because "lactose" was the first ingredient. Even if you get the special feline version, then "rice flour" is the first ingredient. I saw these two things as irritants for Sebastian.

 
I was happy with the gauge 21 needles, very fine and with the thin wall not too slow for me.  It would take about 20 min. to transfuse 100ml.  Maybe I wasn't that great of a "sticker", so thinnest was my choice.  I tried using the 18's and it was like stabbing a skewer or something.

I do think it's all about what works best for the person and the cat. Sebastian is a laid back dude, but he starts to get antsy if it takes too long, so 20 minutes is out of the question. With the 18 gauge needles that I use, I get 100ml in him in 5 minutes.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

 
I do think it's all about what works best for the person and the cat. Sebastian is a laid back dude, but he starts to get antsy if it takes too long, so 20 minutes is out of the question. With the 18 gauge needles that I use, I get 100ml in him in 5 minutes.

I was gonna say, with the 19 gauge, it only took about 5 minutes too, for 100 to 150 mls!  Maybe she's talking about from starting to warm up the fluids and catching the cat until everything is all packed away again

 

[iloveprincess]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Thanks for the replies about needle sizes. Tigger seems to be tolerating the needles now. I think it still hurts, but he puts up with it, being the trooper that he is. 

Tigger's urine-leaking came back with a vengeance, so I decided to lay off the fluids for a few days. Although the urine-leaking did go away, he ended up projectile vomiting after his dinner one evening. I immediately started up with his fluids again and he hasn't puked since. I feel like it's always something, sigh, but I am grateful that Tigger is definitely hanging in there!

Holistic, that makes sense about the prozyme. I am not going to risk giving it to him. If anyone would like my prozyme, I would be willing to ship it to you, at your expense.

 

[lillydsh]

Put your cat on a food that is preservative, coloring agent and insecticide free. You should feed a low-protein diet. You will also want to add a B-vitamin supplement to his food.

Cats often vomit when they eat too fast.

 

[clovan]

Hi i just joined this forum. My cat Snowy has CKD, diabetes, and pancreatitis. Regarding litter, when you are dealing with that much pee every day, I have found it easier to use Yesterday's News, a compressed newspaper pellet litter. It does not clump, but the pellets puff up visibly when they soak up the urine. They are really easy to scoop out then. I usually have to scoop the front half of the box twice a day. She pees in the same spot and doesn't stir the box really.

 

[goholistic]

Thanks so much for the tip, Clovan!

We haven't heard from the OP in awhile. I hope Tigger is still doing okay. 

 

[krashballz]

I'm still in contact with Tigger's mommy. He's doing pretty well right now. He had a couple of issues over the last few weeks, but she says he's feeling pretty good now
I'm sure she'll appreciate the tip about the litter. Thanks for sharing!

 

[iloveprincess]

Thank you, Clovan, for the advice on litter! I just looked up Yesterday's News an Amazon and may try to order it next time. Does it help control odor? What about tracking in the house? I am so sorry to hear your kitty has CKD, diabetes, and pancreatitis! How long ago was your baby diagnosed? I do understand how stressful and painful it is to have to deal with these conditions. Please share any other treatments you have found to be effective and come back here for support. The emotional roller coaster can be exhausting. I am concerned Tigger might have or will have diabetes, what were some of the signs with your kitty? I gather it is difficult to distinguish between the CKD/pancreatitis/diabetes/medication symptoms since they are all so similar. Hang in there

!

Hi GoHolisitic!! How is Sebastian? Thank you for checking in on Tigger. He is hanging in there . I have gone through a lot of ups and downs with him, as he has had 2 or 3 pretty major flare ups, and recently a minor one. The previous 2 big ones, I was prepared to have to put him down, but he rallies back each and every time. I sincerely hope you and Sebastian are still kicking butt

!

Thank you, my love (Krash's mommy), for replying on my behalf. I'm so happy to see you back on the forum as you are an amazing asset to everyone here!! Have you introduced your two rugrats to everyone?