Hampton the feral cat returns after 8 months of being gone

[shadowsrescue]

So great bowel movements are happening and that they're normal. Also great that she's being a good girl about her meds. Did the vet say to give antibiotics and probiotics at the same time? I ask because it's always seemed like a waste of money to me - the antibiotics don't discriminate between good and bad bacteria, so they'll kill the probiotics off anyway. I've always got through the antibiotics and taken the probiotics to rebalance things after.

Hang in there, both of you. Hopefully things will continue to improve as Sadie gets stronger.

and

to you both.

She will be on them while taking the meds and for a few weeks after.  Yet it does make sense not to give it now.  Yet I so do not want her to have diarrhea.  I am giving meds in the morning and then at night and giving the probiotic in the afternoon.  I also have some Propectalin which is a probiotic with kaopectate in it.  I can use that in a pinch if she get diarrhea.

 

[ondine]

So glad to hear we have some poops!  And thank goodness, a diagnosis.  Once she get into her course of antibiotics, she should feel better.

@ Columbine - I always thought that, too, but have learned it is harder to start from scratch regarding replenishing the probitics.  Even just a few in her gut will help her retain a normal system.  Plus, something like 70% of her immune system is there, so every little bit helps.

 

[ldg]

She did have a bowel movement and they are all very normal.  I also have a probiotic I will start today.  Hoping the antibiotic doesn't give her diarrhea. 

...Did the vet say to give antibiotics and probiotics at the same time? I ask because it's always seemed like a waste of money to me - the antibiotics don't discriminate between good and bad bacteria, so they'll kill the probiotics off anyway. I've always got through the antibiotics and taken the probiotics to rebalance things after...

Actually, there is a yeast-based probiotic that treats antibiotic-associated diarrhea very well. It is used around the world for "traveler's diarrhea." It is used in hospitals for not just diarrhea caused by antibiotics, but it is used to treat antibiotic-resistant C. diff. it is actually the most researched "probiotic" in the world ("probiotic" is in quotes because it is a yeast, not a bacteria). And because it is a yeast, it can be given any time without regard to timing with the antibiotic. It does not colonize the gut, so it is best given 2x a day, but most cats eat it if fed in some baby food or something tasty, and it's out of the body within 36 hours once you stop it. It's called S boulardii, and you can usually find Jarrow brand in health food stores (with MOS); Renew Life has a version without MOS, also usually sold in health food stores, or Florastor (the "brand" name) is found in pretty much any big box store (Costco, Walmart, etc).

 

[ldg]

If anyone wants to know more about it: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/283161/saccharomyces-boulardii-use-for-diarrhea-and-gi-disease-incl-ibd

 

[shadowsrescue]

 

She did have a bowel movement and they are all very normal.  I also have a probiotic I will start today.  Hoping the antibiotic doesn't give her diarrhea. 

 

...Did the vet say to give antibiotics and probiotics at the same time? I ask because it's always seemed like a waste of money to me - the antibiotics don't discriminate between good and bad bacteria, so they'll kill the probiotics off anyway. I've always got through the antibiotics and taken the probiotics to rebalance things after...

Actually, there is a yeast-based probiotic that treats antibiotic-associated diarrhea very well. It is used around the world for "traveler's diarrhea." It is used in hospitals for not just diarrhea caused by antibiotics, but it is used to treat antibiotic-resistant C. diff. it is actually the most researched "probiotic" in the world ("probiotic" is in quotes because it is a yeast, not a bacteria). And because it is a yeast, it can be given any time without regard to timing with the antibiotic. It does not colonize the gut, so it is best given 2x a day, but most cats eat it if fed in some baby food or something tasty, and it's out of the body within 36 hours once you stop it. It's called S boulardii, and you can usually find Jarrow brand in health food stores (with MOS); Renew Life has a version without MOS, also usually sold in health food stores, or Florastor (the "brand" name) is found in pretty much any big box store (Costco, Walmart, etc).

Thank you so much for this.  Is it wise to use this as a preventive to diarrhea?  Also should it be used in combination with another probiotic or just alone is fine?

 

[shadowsrescue]

@LDG I am thinking of trying Nexabiotic since she doesn't have diarrhea, but I want to prevent it as well as keep other good bacteria in the gut.  Is this a good brand?

 

[ondine]

If anyone wants to know more about it: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/283161/saccharomyces-boulardii-use-for-diarrhea-and-gi-disease-incl-ibd

This is good info for us humans, too.  We eat so much processed food, our lower guts have nothing to do.  I've started a serious course of probiotics and I can really tell the difference.  That and adding more fiber, which, I know, I know - I sound like my mother.  But all these years, my mother was right! 

 

[keyes]

I spaced the two out and I would think that it's better to at least try to keep the good bacteria going.  Otherwise you'll be playing catch up after the antibiotics are done.

 

[Columbine]

ldg That info is really useful
shadowsrescue I really hope you're able to find the right combo for Sadie. I know I keep saying it, but she's so lucky to have found you :nod:

 

[msaimee]

I'm so glad she has a diagnosis!  That's very hopeful. I'm sure you're relieved that you know what's going on.

If the liquid med gets to be too much, I'd recommend you get the pills and use a pill gun. I use a pill gun to give my geriatric cat with hyperthyroidism his twice daily dose of a nasty tasting pill. I just open his mouth and shoot it down his throat, he doesn't even taste it. Not all vets sell pill guns, and pet stores generally only sell the big ones for dogs, so you might have to order one for cats online if you decide to go that route.

 

[shadowsrescue]

 
I'm so glad she has a diagnosis!  That's very hopeful. I'm sure you're relieved that you know what's going on.

If the liquid med gets to be too much, I'd recommend you get the pills and use a pill gun. I use a pill gun to give my geriatric cat with hyperthyroidism his twice daily dose of a nasty tasting pill. I just open his mouth and shoot it down his throat, he doesn't even taste it. Not all vets sell pill guns, and pet stores generally only sell the big ones for dogs, so you might have to order one for cats online if you decide to go that route.

I would be very interested in this.  Did you get yours from the vet?  Could you send me a link to something similar.  I may very well have to pill her as 21 days of crappy tasting liquid may not work.

 

[msaimee]

I got mine from my vet. Here's a pill gun from Amazon that looks similar to the one I use.

 
Since Sadie is used to being fed with a syringe, you would have an easy time using a pill gun on her. It would be a bummer to have to pay for the pills after you paid for the liquid, but it might be worth it.

 

[shadowsrescue]

 
I got mine from my vet. Here's a pill gun from Amazon that looks similar to the one I use.

 
Since Sadie is used to being fed with a syringe, you would have an easy time using a pill gun on her. It would be a bummer to have to pay for the pills after you paid for the liquid, but it might be worth it.

Thank you so much.  I ordered one to have on hand.  I have enough cats that it will come in handy with at least one of them!

 

[ldg]

Well, the Nexabiotic kind of negates the ease of use of the S boulardii IF there is antibiotic-associate diarrhea, because the dose of S boulardii is more for ongoing support rather than treating diarrhea - and the antibiotic will just kill off the other bacteria in it. I know of several people that used to prevent diarrhea in cats that they know got diarrhea from using antibiotics - and it worked. There really isn't any reason not to try it, unless Sadie doesn't like it and it's hard to get into her. For using Nexabiotic and not straight S boulardii during antibiotics, then it's best to use it like other probiotics during the antibiotic administration: give it at least 2 hours after the antibiotic.

ondine , it really is. I've been using it to fight candida - which I have due to high antibiotics use from lyme / tick bites (from trapping feral cats in NJ. :lol3: ). It really controls it. And I *also* use Nexabiotic. In fact, I rotate several types of probiotics, and use high doses of them, and I see a real difference, too. If anyone wants more info on just how important our bacteria is to our immune system, there is a thread in IMO with some great links: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292440/we-and-our-pets-are-an-ecosystem

Humans are designed to ferment fiber to promote gut bacterial growth. Cats are not. Interestingly, there's a study in cheetahs that indicates the stuff they don't digest when eating whole prey - fur, some bone and cartilage, etc - actually acts like fiber does in humans in terms of the short-chain fatty acids created in the colon. Seriously fascinating stuff for anyone interested in cat physiology and nutrition. (FYI I do feed my cats raw, and I do buy the whole ground rabbit, fur and all, from Hare Today. I don't feed whole prey, I can't afford it and my cats won't eat it).

The bottom line is that we don't really even know what are native bacteria for the human gut let alone cat guts. :lol3:

 

[shadowsrescue]

I am going to try the Nexabiotic and see how it goes.  So far no diarrhea so that's good.

Sadie's not doing very well today.  Each time she goes tot he vet she is wiped out for the day.  So yesterday she was very sleepy and very wobbly.  This morning she was still wobbly, but moving around more.  She ate well so that was good.  Yet she more wobbly than usual.  She is completely falling over.  She hasn't done this in over a week.

I was reading more about toxoplasmosis today.  It seems that once the parasite reaches the nervous system, recovery is challenging.  I am worried.  I fear that she has had this for awhile and that it may be too late.  She has been with me for 3 weeks now.  I know the medicine needs a chance to work, but I don't understand why she was better for 5 days or so and now she is back to where she was or maybe a touch worse.  The only good is that she is eating.  I am still syringe feeding 3-4x a day. 

 

[Columbine]

Hang in there. You're doing everything possible for Sadie, and she knows it. I hope and pray that she'll pull through. Come on Sadie. Keep fighting

 

[msaimee]

Such sad news. I really hope she pulls through. What a sweet little angel. Prayers to you both. 

 

[nansiludie]

Hopefully she'll be well soon.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Sadie is a bit better today.  I stopped by the vet to get more pain meds and was able to talk with the vet.  She explained that with toxo, the symptoms wax and wan and to expect good and bad days.  She does believe that many of Sadie's symptoms should get better.  The toxo test showed that her infection is most likely in the past 3-5 months so hopefully it is treatable.  It just may take her a bit longer to get better.  We are going to start the anti inflammatory meds later today.  I ordered a pill gun, thank you @MsAimee so once the mail arrives today I will give the meds. 

She will have another laser treatment tomorrow and I will be giving the B 12 injections here at home.  She also may get an anti nausea injection tomorrow if she is still not eating well.

I feel a bit better today and a bit more optimistic.  It is just so hard watching her some days. 

Thanks so much for all of the support. 

 

[Columbine]

I know too well how hard it is to care for a sick cat and watch them struggle. It's good that you were able to talk to your vet without Sadie there...Some of the most useful conversations I've had with a vet have been over the phone or when the pet in question wasn't there. Hang in there.