Fish Oil vs. Krill Oil vs. Green Lipped Mussel Oil

[goholistic]

Can we talk about this again, please?  

Krill_Oil_Comparison.jpg

• goholistic
• Nov 8, 2013

* If the serving size was 2 softgels, then I divided everything in half so that I could get a true comparison per 1 softgel. If the amount was in mcg, then I converted it to mg.

My other concern about krill oil is the warnings I see about shellfish allergies. Do I need to worry about Sebastian having a bad reaction to krill oil? He's an IBD cat and cannot have any fish.

GREEN LIPPED MUSSEL OIL

Really, the only two brands I found that provide this are Moxxor and Tripernol. I think Moxxor is a marketing gimic (sorry). I know @Carolina had tried Tripernol in the past, but there was some debate because it contained soy then. They reformulated and it now contains sunflower oil instead; not sure if that's any better. I hope she sees this and will share her experiences with Tripernol.

I'm not sure how to proceed. Any thoughts?

 

[ldg]

There is no non-industry sponsored research on green lipped mussel oil that I'm aware of. BUT.... Hare Today sells the powder. The oil is made FROM the powder. I'm wondering if Sebastion would accept the powder in his food vs the oil. It wouldn't be as concentrated, so he'd need to eat more, but if he eats it... :dk:

As to the krill oil, all I can say is that I had Flowerbelle on salmon oil for ... I don't remember how long. I saw no difference in her agility (she has deterioration of the ball joints in her hips). It took just 3 days on krill oil to see a difference, so there in my experience, there would seem to be a huge difference in bioavailability. She hates it though, so I pill her with it.

It seems a number of kitties that didn't like salmon oil did find krill oil palatable. If you try the krill oil, and he won't eat that either, you can take them so they don't go to waste.

Carolina uses the NOW krill oil now, and her IBD cats eat it just fine with no issues. I think she had to work up to the full capsule slowly though. Anything introduced too quickly gives them diarrhea.

Sunflower oil would be much better than soy. Soy - even in the oil - can have goitrogens, that are thought to contribute to hyperthyroid (though in such a small amount, I'm not sure it matters. :dk: ).

 

[goholistic]

Hmm... 

So, if I decide to try krill oil, I don't need to worry about it being a fish allergen? I guess this question could also apply to GLM, although I would think that the powder would be like powdered mussels...no?

 

[ldg]

I'm not sure I understand the question - is Sebastion allergic to fish? The green-lipped mussel POWDER may trigger an allergy, I'm not sure. But the oils typically do not, because they're fat, not protein, and it's proteins that trigger allergies when they exist.

 

[goholistic]

Sorry. Okay, let's forget about the GLM powder for now. I was worried about the krill oil and GLM oil because on the packaging it'll say, "Allergy Information: Contains Shellfish" or something of that nature. The Tripernol GLM oil states, "People who have an allergy to shellfish should not take this product." And the NOW krill oil says, "Do not use this product if you have a seafood allergy." If there are no allergy-aggravating proteins, why do they have to warn consumers that it contains an allergen? 

I have four different fish oils (anchovy, sardine, mackerel) right now, and none of them have a fish allergy warning.

I really don't know if he's allergic to fish specifically, but he's on a novel protein diet (rabbit) and can't have any other proteins. I've been avoiding anything that could be a possible trigger for a flare. (I did mentioned briefly in my other thread that Sebastian may have a protein allergy on top of everything else, but I don't know exactly to what. For awhile, he had a raised red rash on his ear flap that would come and go. Since feeding him strictly rabbit, it has disappeared completely and not returned.)

 

[carolina]

The only reason why I used Green Lipped Mussels was because Lucky and Hope would not eat fish oil, and Bugsy had horrible diarrhea on it.
It was more palatable, and the smaller way didn't give Bugsy diarrhea. I didn't feed them enough time to be able to give any feedback.... Sorry...
They are all on Krill oil (my dog is on fish oil, but I might put him on Krill as he gets older), and doing great.
For those who hated fish oil, I just introduced Krill slowly, and they all ate without an issue.
I never got any reaction from Bugsy, and trust me when I say, if there is a cat that would have a reaction, that would be Bugsy!
IMHO GoHolistic, you just have to try. You can sit around dissecting what is in each capsule, each supplement, each whatever you want to give him, but with IBD, there is no saying.
Omega 3s are beneficial, so are enzymes, so are probiotics.... Bottom line is you need to pick one that has been tried with good results and try. That's the ONLY way you will know.
Nothing, nothing you buy will be pure today. Not the air you breathe is pure, not the water you drink.
So.... You just have to take a deep breath, try it and hope for the best.
A holistic approach with a natural, raw diet, probiotics, enzymes and omega is far more gentle on his system than drugs that a vet will prescribe (and he is been given) in a blink of an eye.
So.... IMHO and sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh - time to walk the talk, act like the namesake "GoHolistic"..... You and your boy have much to gain.
IMHO the Krill oil, the probiotics... A balanced boneless raw or home cooked diet, enzymes.... This is not going to hurt your baby.
But IMHO you are wasting precious time, you really are....
If you have all these questions and you are this uncertain, please, please for your baby's sake go to a holistic vet.... He/she will guide you through it.
And remember to keep your vet posted on what you give to your baby.
I hope Sebastian has complete turn around

 

[ldg]

GH, I'm sure those warnings are there for the same reason that something with no nuts has the warning that it was manufactured in a plant that processes nuts. It's possible there are traces in the oil.

Carolina put it so very well. :rub: I understand your fear - so does Carolina. Given the fears, I would go to the vet that can hold your hand during these decisions in taking an alternative, holistic approach to whole healing.

 

[goholistic]

Thank you for clarifying the use of omega-3s in your household, Carolina. I'm glad to hear they are all doing well on krill oil.

I certainly didn't want this to turn into another "you need to get Sebastian on raw" thread, but since you brought it up...

I understand that I won't know if something works or doesn't work until I try it. That goes for every supplement, every vitamin, and any food Sebastian eats, whether it's raw or not. I'm sure you're aware that I have done extensive research and read so many case studies of cats with pancreatitis and IBD. I've read every single case study on ibdkitties.net, and a large number on the Yahoo group, other cat-specific forums, independent blogs, social media, and hundreds of comments that people leave at the bottom of individual web pages. I've privately reached out to a dozen or so TCS members whose cats have IBD. Quite honestly, in my research I have found that more people have claimed that a raw diet did not hurt OR help their IBD kitty and they would continue to have flares and remain on prescriptions meds. I understand that the internet can be skewed and people are more likely to write about their negative experiences and what didn't work than the alternative.

Every IBD case is different and there is no one cure-all for all cats. I'm so happy that Bugsy responded so well to a raw diet. But I AM going to be cautious about what I change and what I give, and I will dissect everything...for all my cats. My other cat Caesar has a history of hypercalcemia. It probably wouldn't be very smart of me to give him a supplement with added calcium, which I would have to determine by analyzing the ingredients. Does Sebastian have such sensitivities? Possibly. I'm not one to just jump right into something without first discussing it with my vet, weighting the pros and cons, benefits and risks, and taking everything into consideration. It seems I am either getting an approving pat on the back or a reprimanding slap on the wrist for this.

I am incorporating all of these things very slowly. He's on a good probiotic already, I've started him on omega-3s daily, and digestive enzymes will be next. I've already been in touch with Tracy at Hare Today and I'm setting up an appointment with the holistic vet at the end of this month when I am off from work for a week (need to be home in case he flares up from the stress). I know neither of you are happy that he is eating the Royal Canin prescription rabbit diet, but really, the canned food isn't that bad. Yes, the dry is not great, so I have him at about 70/30 (wet/dry). Chances are that we'll end up at a partial canned, partial homecooked/raw diet.

I'm sorry that I am not going as fast as you would like. I've made a promise to Sebastian and to his current vet (at her recommendation) that I would not venture out on a stressful 30-40 minute drive or make any drastic changes until he has been feeling good for at least a couple of weeks from his last flare.

Thanks, again, to you both for your support and persistence. 

 

 

[peaches08]

FWIW, all three of mine improved in 24 hours of changing their diet. I did not have a biopsy done, so IBS-D is the best diagnosis we have. The biopsy was next if the diet change didn't help.

Dumb question I suppose, but in that I haven't purchased cat food in going on 2 years I have to ask: is calcium listed in the nutrition breakdown of the canned foods you feed? I ask because they should be targeting a certain amount, just like we do with raw and home-cooked. Difference is, I can adjust the calcium for mine. I can't with canned, unless I add meat to it.

I can understand not wanting to dump a bunch of calcium on a cat with hypercalcemia, but he's going to have hypercalcemia on canned as well until the cause is determined and corrected. I'm not trying to argue raw vs prescription at all; I've been there myself and it's hard to make a decision with differing opinions. But as far as calcium goes, I wanted to put that in perspective.

As far as allergies and the warnings, that's a catch all CYA like LDG mentioned.

 

[carolina]

Well, it saddens me all you got from my post was "raw". I guess we see what we want to see. Anyways, good luck to you and Sebastian.

 

[goholistic]

Well, it saddens me all you got from my post was "raw". I guess we see what we want to see. Anyways, good luck to you and Sebastian.

That's not all I saw. I thought my reply covered everything in your post - fish vs. krill oil, dissecting everything, omega-3s, enzymes, probiotics, raw diet, seeing a holistic vet, seeing the whole picture.  

 

[ldg]

No, it's not about being disappointed he's eating Royal Canin, and I don't think any of Carolina's or my posts in discussing options for Sebastian (or any IBD kitty) are only about raw. When there seem to be no other complicating factors, and a kitty is young and the symptoms are rather straightforward, yes, trying a diet change to raw is often a first suggestion.

That is not the situation with Sebastian.

It's like a kitty with FLUTD. Get them stable traditionally, especially if it was a repeat blockage, and then pursue alternates that will manage the FLUTD, but will also support the long term health of kitty.

Sebastian has a lot going on. But all of it relates back to inflammation and a haywire immune system. I appreciate all the research you've put into it, but at times, all the research *appears* to be somewhat paralyzing. For IBD kitties, just about everything is hit or miss, and what works for some doesn't work for others. And while (thank goodness) Sebastian has stabilized on pred and antibiotics, there are plenty of kitties, Carolina's Bugsy being one of them, for whom antibiotics created more problems down the road.

So the discussion, as I saw it, wasn't about taking a hammer to "raw." That is just one potential tool in the healing arsenal.

When we rescued Chumley, he had explosive diarrhea, was gnawing himself bare, and I would probably have been more complacent about alternatives if metro and the prescription diet worked. But they didn't. And six months of experimenting with traditional treatments gained him little relief. Your Sebastian is very lucky it is helping. :heart2:

I know Carolina and I are on the same page when it comes to managing health: we'd much rather try "holistic," "natural" treatments or remedies first, if it will likely not harm our babies. I think we were both assuming you felt the same way. Right now you are controlling Sebastian's inflammation by suppressing his immune system, rather than taking any steps that actually promote healing. ETA: that's incorrect. You have been trying to address his gut flora and in this thread are exploring aspects of reducing inflammation naturally. Sorry for the inaccuracy there! ...back to the post as it was....

There is nothing *wrong* with that approach. Sometimes it is the only option. To save Tuxedo's life, we used high doses of steroids for a long time to stop his body from destroying his red blood cells.

...but all the research in the world will provide no "answer," because there is no one-size fits all answer, especially for IBD. My "bugging" you about seeing the holistic vet, which plan you have now outlined, is because I was lucky enough to find a wonderful vet additionally trained in Chinese Medicine and healing alternatives. And based on that experience, it became clear to me that Western Medicine, while it saves lives (Lazlo and Tuxedo, cases in point), it is at a loss when it comes to immune-mediated problems. If the immune system responds "as it should," e.g. bacterial infection, kill bacteria with antibiotic, great. But when the problem is the immune system itself, all Western Medicine can do is play whack-a-mole with the individual symptoms, and hopefully you get lucky and whack all the "right" moles at once.

Sometimes a kitty can be comfortable indefinitely with this method. But as part of an IBD group, for the short period I have, it has become painfully obvious that rarely is this the case.

I am not critical of people who choose to try to manage kitty IBD traditionally. But if someone is open to alternatives, and has access to a trained vet, why not at least have the option of the best of both worlds? When you've tried something and it healed your cat vs managing the symptoms of inflammation, it's pretty darn hard not to want to jump up and down and shout "try this! Try this!"

...but it's also hard to want to try something new, when you've got something working. At least for now. ...and until your earlier post here, the "next steps" weren't clear. Not that you "owe" us any explanation.

Finally, I think the sense of urgency is that IBD is a ticking time bomb. Suppressing the symptoms makes kitty feel better, definitely! But it doesn't stop the underlying problem. I don't know a holistic vet will help. I just know that there's a better chance of getting the underlying problem properly addressed with an alternate approach, only one aspect of which is diet, and hopefully the vet is also better trained and has experience with all the natural supplement options with which you are wrestling - and would be able to give advice based on Sebastian's specific condition and circumstances. :cross: :heart2:

 

[ldg]

It took me forever to write that on my phone, so it overlapped your post.

 

[carolina]

GoHolistic, my main point was, you won't know until you try. You can dissect the supplements all you want, but you will only KNOW when you try them.
Like you said yourself, every IBD cat is different, what Bugsy, or another cat reacts to might or might not mean anything to Sebastian. And until you try, you won't know.
My other point was none of those things will be harmful for him. They might not work.... And you will know. Thing with IBD is, it is a long process of trial and error. But you have to try to get somewhere.
As for the raw, sorry, I have to say I did my research too. High and low. And I don't believe for a second it doesn't make a difference.
Did I see many cases it didn't work? Suuuuure. But when I digged into it, In plenty of those cases raw was being fed with other foods, or was discontinued.
I also saw many, many cases that it worked like nothing else.
Is it a cure for all? Nope.
Is it for everyone? Nope.
I honestly believe, from the bottom of my heart, it is the best diet for a cat with IBD. But, you will only know if you try.
Do you need to try? No....
My post was really meant to be about the supplements... And in general.
Look, I have been there. I know the slow process. I know the compromised system.
I know the fear.....
I also know the trial and error process.... I know how important it is to get out of a cycle that's not working. My biggest fear with Bugsy, and I think every IBD parents biggest fear, is lymphoma.... I knew this was a likely future if we didn't find a solution for his ibd.
I am very fortunate to have found a vet who worked with me very closely on this path.... For 18 months Bugsy was on his office more than I can remember, and we spoke on the phone at least twice a week.
We tried all drugs you can imagine, at the same time he was open to trying supplements herbs, diets, whatever we thought there was a chance to work.
When drugs started affecting his liver (long term metronidazole after all he had already taken), that's when we went all natural.
I remember his words when I was using two probiotics, one human and one animal: "he won't die of a probiotics overdose, Carolina; at the worst, his diarrhea will get worst, then you take a step back".
That's why I am telling you these things. It is not to be mean.... It is not to give you a hard time...
It is just that unfortunately I have been there, and fortunately for me, I worked very very close with a vet on this.
Do I know everything? Gee.... Far from.
I do believe I know the worst that can happen from these three supplements though, and how to proceed with them. That much I know. I believe the worst that can happen with your probiotics will be you not see any result. For the Krill oil, you might have a bit of diarrhea for a few days - not likely. Because of the taste and the nature of our babies, just start slowly and watch the reactions.
And as for raw, for IBD I truly believe a boneless diet is best. I won't feed bone for Bugsy, no matter what anyone tells me, and if I were you, I wouldn't either.
Just so you know, in Bugsy's case, the reason why raw worked was because the preservatives in canned/dry food. After all the trials (we tried sooooo many foods) and judging by how fast raw worked, his vet and I went back to his files and that's what we agreed to, by process of elimination. So, for him, the only food that wouldn't cause inflammation would be raw or homemade.
Anyways.... I am glad things are looking up for Sebastian, and I hope it keeps that way.
I hope you figure all out and he has many, many years of health ahead of him. IBD is a trying disease, not only on them, but on us too. It is a long road, but there is definitely hope.
Don't give up

 

[goholistic]

Quote:

Sebastian has a lot going on. But all of it relates back to inflammation and a haywire immune system. I appreciate all the research you've put into it, but at times, all the research *appears* to be somewhat paralyzing. For IBD kitties, just about everything is hit or miss, and what works for some doesn't work for others. And while (thank goodness) Sebastian has stabilized on pred and antibiotics, there are plenty of kitties, Carolina's Bugsy being one of them, for whom antibiotics created more problems down the road.

So the discussion, as I saw it, wasn't about taking a hammer to "raw." That is just one potential tool in the healing arsenal.

I agree with everything you said here. 

When we rescued Chumley, he had explosive diarrhea, was gnawing himself bare, and I would probably have been more complacent about alternatives if metro and the prescription diet worked. But they didn't. And six months of experimenting with traditional treatments gained him little relief. Your Sebastian is very lucky it is helping.

Well, maybe that's where the big difference is. Sebastian never had diarrhea. His is all upper GI tract. Couldn't that significantly change what works and what doesn't? It is being suggested to me to try a remedy that cured a symptom in other cats that Sebastian never had. I'm not saying raw is not worth trying! Just stating the differences in cases.

I know Carolina and I are on the same page when it comes to managing health: we'd much rather try "holistic," "natural" treatments or remedies first, if it will likely not harm our babies. I think we were both assuming you felt the same way. Right now you are controlling Sebastian's inflammation by suppressing his immune system, rather than taking any steps that actually promote healing. ETA: that's incorrect. You have been trying to address his gut flora and in this thread are exploring aspects of reducing inflammation naturally. Sorry for the inaccuracy there! ...back to the post as it was....

There is nothing *wrong* with that approach. Sometimes it is the only option. To save Tuxedo's life, we used high doses of steroids for a long time to stop his body from destroying his red blood cells.

I have done many holistic remedies for my cats in the past (hence the username), but they were never for such violent GI issues, which is fairly new to me. And I thought I was taking steps to promote healing, which includes keeping him hydrated with fluids, adding a better probiotic, the s. boulardii, the omega-3s, digestive enzymes soon to come, etc. I am doing things. Why does no one see that? I feel like all people see is that I don't have him on raw, yet. ETA: Just saw your ETA! LOL. 

...but all the research in the world will provide no "answer," because there is no one-size fits all answer, especially for IBD. My "bugging" you about seeing the holistic vet, which plan you have now outlined, is because I was lucky enough to find a wonderful vet additionally trained in Chinese Medicine and healing alternatives. And based on that experience, it became clear to me that Western Medicine, while it saves lives (Lazlo and Tuxedo, cases in point), it is at a loss when it comes to immune-mediated problems. If the immune system responds "as it should," e.g. bacterial infection, kill bacteria with antibiotic, great. But when the problem is the immune system itself, all Western Medicine can do is play whack-a-mole with the individual symptoms, and hopefully you get lucky and whack all the "right" moles at once.

Sometimes a kitty can be comfortable indefinitely with this method. But as part of an IBD group, for the short period I have, it has become painfully obvious that rarely is this the case.

I am not critical of people who choose to try to manage kitty IBD traditionally. But if someone is open to alternatives, and has access to a trained vet, why not at least have the option of the best of both worlds? When you've tried something and it healed your cat vs managing the symptoms of inflammation, it's pretty darn hard not to want to jump up and down and shout "try this! Try this!"

I guess where I'm confused is...whenever did I indicate that I don't want to go down the path that you are all suggesting? Because I totally agree! And that is the direction I am headed. I'm not stalling or saying I'm going to do something that I am not. I am in contact with my vet at least once a week, and we've already discussed seeing a holistic vet. That is when she told me to not rush it. "Let Sebastian have a couple good weeks," she advised. I guess I felt I didn't need to provide that amount of detail until I had something concrete to tell you all.

I want to get him off the antibiotics. I want to incorporate some herbal or Chinese meds that may work for him. Alternative and Chinese medicine is complicated and can be dangerous, so I will not venture to do this on my own without the help of a vet who specializes in that kind of care. It would be nice if he could go off the pred, but there are a lot of IBD kitties that just need it, so we'll see.

...but it's also hard to want to try something new, when you've got something working. At least for now.

...and until your earlier post here, the "next steps" weren't clear. Not that you "owe" us any explanation.

Finally, I think the sense of urgency is that IBD is a ticking time bomb. Suppressing the symptoms makes kitty feel better, definitely! But it doesn't stop the underlying problem. I don't know a holistic vet will help. I just know that there's a better chance of getting the underlying problem properly addressed with an alternate approach, only one aspect of which is diet, and hopefully the vet is also better trained and has experience with all the natural supplement options with which you are wrestling - and would be able to give advice based on Sebastian's specific condition and circumstances.

Yes, it is difficult to venture out and make a change when what we're doing is working for now (like you said) and Sebastian is happy and feeling good. It's hard to think that any change I make could once again deprive him of that, and that he'll be sick again and in pain. I don't want that...ever. His flares are violent and scary, and his quality of life is my first priority. If that means traditional medicine, alternative medicine or a combination of both, we'll get there. Of course, I would prefer as all natural as possible, but if it turns out traditional medicine is what keeps him happy, then so be it.

Anyway, I'm glad "the plan" is now known, even if it's not in Sebastian's dedicated thread.  

I do appreciate all of you, for your advice and support. It's about time we had a little go-around. 

 

[goholistic]

Thank you, again, @Carolina.  

I think will go with a boneless diet as both you and @LDG suggested.

Do you know what specific preservatives were aggravating to Bugsy? Chemical preservatives? The canned RC rabbit is "naturally preserved" using marigold extract I believe. It's the last ingredient.

 

[goholistic]

Sorry @peaches08. I almost missed your post. Thanks for making a point.

 

[carolina]

I can't look at the ingredients right now... Hungry kitties to feed, it's late and I still need to pack to travel tomorrow am
I know we tried rc rabbit in the very beginning, as well as Venison and rc HP (dry)... Those were the ones from Royal Canin I remember trying. None of them made a difference... Aside from making him obese (HP dry).
I am not sure what chemical did it, but I find hard to believe a processed food will be 100% natural.
I suppose you can find them, but I had no such luck with Bugsy.
One thing is for sure, there was a common factor in all processed /commercial foods causing inflammation on Bugsy. We did not narrow it down to one ingredient, no, we didn't do that far. I suppose I could, but at that point for me it didn't matter.... I wasn't going to ever again feed him commercial food.
That was one certain common denominator, given the amount of foods we tried and the long road of elimination diets we had been through.
It wasn't a protein, it wasn't a starch, it wasn't a dry/fat issue, it wasn't a grain... But yet something in all those foods, as "pure" as they were, caused inflammation. And once that factor was removed, his issue was resolved immediately.

 

[ldg]

Carolina, wasn't it the can lining? The BPA? :dk:

 

[ldg]

Well, maybe that's where the big difference is. Sebastian never had diarrhea. His is all upper GI tract. Couldn't that significantly change what works and what doesn't? It is being suggested to me to try a remedy that cured a symptom in other cats that Sebastian never had. I'm not saying raw is not worth trying! Just stating the differences in cases.

Maybe I confused the subject. Chumley was diagnosed as "extremely Yin deficient," and "extremely spleen Qi deficient." I haven't suggested anything prescribed for those conditions. The only things I've suggested along the way are the safest yet most potentially potent anti-inflammatory supplements for the GI system.

Specifically, for IBD that presents as vomiting, not diarrhea, fractionally distilled aloe vera (no latex in the juice), digestive enzymes, and a diet switch to something limited ingredient and minimally processed.

Basically, I think ANY cat benefits from probiotics and an omega 3. Healthy, not healthy, vomiting, diarrhea, hyperthyroid, CRF, pancreatitis, etc.

I have done many holistic remedies for my cats in the past (hence the username), but they were never for such violent GI issues, which is fairly new to me. And I thought I was taking steps to promote healing, which includes keeping him hydrated with fluids, adding a better probiotic, the s. boulardii, the omega-3s, digestive enzymes soon to come, etc. I am doing things. Why does no one see that? I feel like all people see is that I don't have him on raw, yet. ETA: Just saw your ETA! LOL.  :lol3:

Raw for Sebastian isn't my agenda, so perhaps you're reading into the posts? :dk: I do think homemade is the way to go, but I also understand wanting him stable, and going slowly. :nod: Whether or not cooked or raw is ultimately what is best... there's a trade-off. Cooking does destroy the naturally occurring enzymes, and with the vomiting AND history with pancreatitis, raw may be the better choice. Of course, the cooking, in a sense, "pre-digests" the food, so cooking with digestive enzymes may be a better way to start, and then cook less and less over time. Again, I think a holistic vet that knows their stuff will have the best opinion.

I guess where I'm confused is...whenever did I indicate that I don't want to go down the path that you are all suggesting? Because I totally agree! And that is the direction I am headed. I'm not stalling or saying I'm going to do something that I am not. I am in contact with my vet at least once a week, and we've already discussed seeing a holistic vet. That is when she told me to not rush it. "Let Sebastian have a couple good weeks," she advised. I guess I felt I didn't need to provide that amount of detail until I had something concrete to tell you all.

And that bit of information at the end is what was missing. :lol3: I know it's a stressful trip for Sebastian. But in all honesty, I was wondering why there didn't seem to be forward movement on the holistic vet front when you have expressed it was a route you wanted to take. :heart2:

I want to get him off the antibiotics. I want to incorporate some herbal or Chinese meds that may work for him. Alternative and Chinese medicine is complicated and can be dangerous, so I will not venture to do this on my own without the help of a vet who specializes in that kind of care. It would be nice if he could go off the pred, but there are a lot of IBD kitties that just need it, so we'll see.

Exactly.

Yes, it is difficult to venture out and make a change when what we're doing is working for now (like you said) and Sebastian is happy and feeling good. It's hard to think that any change I make could once again deprive him of that, and that he'll be sick again and in pain. I don't want that...ever. His flares are violent and scary, and his quality of life is my first priority. If that means traditional medicine, alternative medicine or a combination of both, we'll get there. Of course, I would prefer as all natural as possible, but if it turns out traditional medicine is what keeps him happy, then so be it.

Another exactly. :lol3: That said, I'm seeing over and over and over again that IBD kitties often continue to have violent flares, and how to resolve them morphs. So if something (under the supervision of a vet) triggers a flare.... I personally think trying is better than not, because ultimately I would want to at least try to get at the root of the problem, and would rather there be some problems along the way than not try, and potentially face similar problems anyway, but without anything being done to potentially prevent that from happening. :heart2: :rub:

Anyway, I'm glad "the plan" is now known, even if it's not in Sebastian's dedicated thread.  

I do appreciate all of you, for your advice and support. It's about time we had a little go-around.  :high5:

:high5: :bigthumb: