Finally trapped Oskar! Next steps

[shadowsrescue]

@ShadowsRescue thank you for the encouraging words!!!!

Uszka and Oskar both don't like to go up on things, Catsby is the only one who uses vertical space. I do need to stop coddling Oskar tho. You're right. I also always sit on the ground when she's out and about to try to get her to play and redirect Usz when she has that look in her face. I just want upstairs to be fun so she keeps coming out.

On the bright side, I don't think Oskar is petrified of Uszka. Just today during tuna snack time she finished hers and put her face right into Uszka's plate and they both ate together until I removed Oskar (Uszka did not care in the least and afterwards they smelled noses until Oskar got scared, growled and ran off).

Did your boy also struggle with being out an about due to fear of your resident cats? Did that progressively get better?

With my two, they switched on who was aggressive or territorial.  It was maddening.  Yet my feral boy was very scared of so many things.  Noises in the house and noises outside set him off.  Also each time he heard my resident cat jump off the cat tree he would run up to his safe room.  At first I would go up after him to be sure he was ok.  I then realized I was making things worse.  He had to learn it was ok to run to his safe room, but he also needed to learn to come back out.  He always did.

Things did get progressively better, but they moved very slowly.  We hit a plateau at about the stage you are right now.  Things stayed that way for a few months.  Some days were good while others days were rough.  Yet I never had to revert backwards and put the new boy away.  Then we started to notice that the cats were much more calm with each other.  I still had a "hot spot" in my upstairs hall way.  It was easy to get cornered there.  I didn't have an outlet there for a feliway so daily spraying of Comfort Zone was necessary.  I also had to redirect a lot.  The "hot spot" took months to settle.  Yet every few weeks improvement was noted.  Some days when things were bad for a few days, I had to have my DH or son take over.  I became too emotional and it upset the cats.  The men were much calmer than me. 

I look back and it was a stressful time.  I so wanted them to be best buddies and then I settled for them to just live peacefully.  Now they are buddies and play and groom each other.  It is very nice to see.  My resident cat took over top cat duties and has remained top cat.  My feral boy who wanted to be top cat for awhile is now very docile and so so sweet. 

I also used an animal communicator.  She was a life saver for me.  She helped in so many ways. 

I am sure that in a few months you will look back and forget about how stressful it is and just how wonderful  your life is with 3 cats.  You are just a wonderful cat Mom!!

 

[alexisontofu]

shadowsrescue I think I found a great way to manage Uszka's tendencies to run toward/after Oskar. Simple operant conditioning (Usz gets a kibble every time Oskar walks past Usz and Usz does not go after her) to remain calm seems to be doing the trick. After only 1 day of training Oskar has become way more confident walking past Uszka and Usz has almost stopped the behavior.

Now I wonder about your experience with pacing. It's only been 2 months but Oskar still paces non stop unless I get her to play. What was it like with Marvin?

 

[shadowsrescue]

@ShadowsRescue I think I found a great way to manage Uszka's tendencies to run toward/after Oskar. Simple operant conditioning (Usz gets a kibble every time Oskar walks past Usz and Usz does not go after her) to remain calm seems to be doing the trick. After only 1 day of training Oskar has become way more confident walking past Uszka and Usz has almost stopped the behavior.

Now I wonder about your experience with pacing. It's only been 2 months but Oskar still paces non stop unless I get her to play. What was it like with Marvin?

I am so glad that you found a way to get Uszka to remain calm.  Food is often a great motivator!

Marvin was confined to his own room for quite a long time.  His pacing diminished after 2 weeks.  Yet I did have a stray I cared for last year.  She was only with me 5 weeks, but she paced non stop. 

I would have thought the pacing would have diminished by now.  Is she only pacing when you are with her?  Does she sleep or stop pacing at night?  Does she only pace when she is in the presence of the other cats?

If she is pacing non stop, you might want to check with your vet.  I would have thought that the Composure would have helped with this.  How much are you giving her each day?  Are you giving it 2x a day?

 

[alexisontofu]

I am so glad that you found a way to get Uszka to remain calm.  Food is often a great motivator!

Marvin was confined to his own room for quite a long time.  His pacing diminished after 2 weeks.  Yet I did have a stray I cared for last year.  She was only with me 5 weeks, but she paced non stop. 

I would have thought the pacing would have diminished by now.  Is she only pacing when you are with her?  Does she sleep or stop pacing at night?  Does she only pace when she is in the presence of the other cats?

If she is pacing non stop, you might want to check with your vet.  I would have thought that the Composure would have helped with this.  How much are you giving her each day?  Are you giving it 2x a day?

Oskar paces non stop. Whether the other cats are around or not. Whether I am around or not. Day and night. She basically goes from one window to the next, sits on the windowsill for a minute or so and then off to the next window. Her primary target is still the porch door where she used to come in and out of the house prior to trapping. She does stop to play at times but again only if I sit on the ground with wands/cat nip toys or string (still not playing by herself with any toys).
Two nights ago I noticed her mewoing while at the living room window (I installed cat safe screens and duck taped the frames for double suport) and realized she had a full blown conversation with Catsby's dad (a feral we named Francois because he's drop dead gorgeous). I wonder if the pacing is related to her missing Francois. I often spotted them together and she always only ate half her food and encouraged him to come onto the porch to finish her bowl.

 

[shadowsrescue]

 

I am so glad that you found a way to get Uszka to remain calm.  Food is often a great motivator!

Marvin was confined to his own room for quite a long time.  His pacing diminished after 2 weeks.  Yet I did have a stray I cared for last year.  She was only with me 5 weeks, but she paced non stop. 

I would have thought the pacing would have diminished by now.  Is she only pacing when you are with her?  Does she sleep or stop pacing at night?  Does she only pace when she is in the presence of the other cats?

If she is pacing non stop, you might want to check with your vet.  I would have thought that the Composure would have helped with this.  How much are you giving her each day?  Are you giving it 2x a day?

Oskar paces non stop. Whether the other cats are around or not. Whether I am around or not. Day and night. She basically goes from one window to the next, sits on the windowsill for a minute or so and then off to the next window. Her primary target is still the porch door where she used to come in and out of the house prior to trapping. She does stop to play at times but again only if I sit on the ground with wands/cat nip toys or string (still not playing by herself with any toys).
Two nights ago I noticed her mewoing while at the living room window (I installed cat safe screens and duck taped the frames for double suport) and realized she had a full blown conversation with Catsby's dad (a feral we named Francois because he's drop dead gorgeous). I wonder if the pacing is related to her missing Francois. I often spotted them together and she always only ate half her food and encouraged him to come onto the porch to finish her bowl.

Are you giving her enough Composure?  I would be giving her 1/2 t. 2x a day.  If the Composure isn't helping then I would either just live with it for a bit longer, not allow her access to the windows right now or contact my vet. By not allowing her access to the windows she might settle down.  Sometimes the outside scents may aggitate her.   Some vets may not understand and tell you to put her back outside.  She is doing so well inside that shouldn't be an option.  Another thought is to contact an animal communicator and see if that might help.

Could you build her any type of outdoor enclosure? 

She could be missing her buddy outside or she also could be very territorial about her space.  It's really hard to say. 

If you do take her to the vet, they may try something like prozac.  It may sedate her a bit.  Hopefully it would only be a short course.  Yet you need to be the judge whether this is something that is causing her so much angst that she cannot settle or whether you as a human find it odd or annoying. 

 

[alexisontofu]

Are you giving her enough Composure?  I would be giving her 1/2 t. 2x a day.  If the Composure isn't helping then I would either just live with it for a bit longer, not allow her access to the windows right now or contact my vet. By not allowing her access to the windows she might settle down.  Sometimes the outside scents may aggitate her.   Some vets may not understand and tell you to put her back outside.  She is doing so well inside that shouldn't be an option.  Another thought is to contact an animal communicator and see if that might help.

Could you build her any type of outdoor enclosure? 

She could be missing her buddy outside or she also could be very territorial about her space.  It's really hard to say. 

If you do take her to the vet, they may try something like prozac.  It may sedate her a bit.  Hopefully it would only be a short course.  Yet you need to be the judge whether this is something that is causing her so much angst that she cannot settle or whether you as a human find it odd or annoying. 

She's been getting 1/2tsp in the AM and PM. I think it helped with the meowing a lot but not the pacing. Regarding the Windows, even when they're closed she paces (porch door - living room - me- porch door - living room - me etc). To me it seems that she paces because she doesn't know what to do otherwise and thus wants to get out (she knows porch door is the way out) because as soon as I sit down to play, she plays and does not pace. Unfortunately an outdoor enclosure is not possible (we're renting a house but once we buy one that's definitely a goal of ours).

Where do I find an animal communicator (never heard of that before!!!) and are they expensive?

My vet did recommend Prozac, tho that's gonna be my last option.

Here is another thought: I will be moving to Wisconsin in 4 weeks for a whole year while the husband stays in MD with the cats. I have considered taking Oskar with me to allow her to adjust to life inside without having to deal with other cats. In a new place she may also not pace as much because she does not know where the actual way out is. Husband is totally against it, however and I am not sure if I should even consider taking her. As of right now, I am the ONLY thing she trusts and feels safe with. I am terrified of taking this away from her by leaving her behind.

 

[shadowsrescue]

As for the AC, they aren't cheap.  The one I use charges $90 for 30 minutes or $135 for an hour.  Her website is www.insightwithanimals.com  I have worked with her for years. 

As for moving, that is a tough one.  If your husband is not interacting with Oskar then it may be very very hard for her.  Yet if you move her and she gets used to be an only cat, you will have to do introductions all over again.  It's a very tough call.  Since she is so bonded with you, she might be best with you and it might give her a fresh start.  If you does stay with your husband, then you should really work on having him interact with her and start to bond.  Feeding is a good way to bond as is giving yummy snacks or treats.  Play time is also important. 

I would keep giving the Composure and save the Prozac for last resort.  Also since you will only be around for another month you would not be there to see how she is doing on the Prozac.

The AC I use is so helpful in getting to the root of a cats behavior, social, and mental behavior.  It is all done over the phone and you receive a recording of the session afterwards.  It is something you have to be open about.  All she needs is a picture of the cat or cats you want to communicate with. 

When I was having some problems with Marvin, I was at the end of my rope.  He was so aggressive to my resident cat.  Marvin was allowed time out of his safe room, but he was so territorial about other parts of the house.  I decided to put a litter box in my office for him.  I also used some calming lavender essential oil.  I thought I was doing everything right to help him adjust.  When I called Danielle ( the AC) she said that by having a litter box in my office, he felt like a jungle animal.  I had the litter box in a piece of furniture that had a small door for him to enter.  He said it was like a cave.  Also he said the floral scent was driving him crazy.  It all made him want to attack.  I removed it immediately and within a day, he was a different cat. 

You have so much on your plate right now.  Try to just be calm and realize that you are doing what you think is best for right now.  Even if it turns out to not work, you are making very thoughtful decisions. 

 

[alexisontofu]

shadowsrescue So out of curiosity, when Marvin stopped pacing, what did he do during his let outs?

I know the pacing is probably not a good sign for 2 months in but letting her go... I can't even bear the thought of it. She has so much potential! She lets me pick her up, cut her nails, she comes when I call her, she comes when I ask "Who wants to eat?", she is so playful when she's in the mood to play with me, she's so snuggly and loves head scratches, she comes out and says hi to strangers when we have company... Man, I wish I could book a session with Jackson Galaxy!

As for moving, I think the biggest challenge would be the actual transfer. I can't fly with her given that I would have to take her out of the carrier at TSA (I can't hold her for more than 4 seconds) and driving would be 14hrs! I mean once I'm gone, my husband will be the feeder and playmate so she will probably get used to him and start forming a bond. However, I will make him do more this month and then we will re-evaluate the situation once I'm gone for a month or so.

 

[shadowsrescue]

@ShadowsRescue So out of curiosity, when Marvin stopped pacing, what did he do during his let outs?

I know the pacing is probably not a good sign for 2 months in but letting her go... I can't even bear the thought of it. She has so much potential! She lets me pick her up, cut her nails, she comes when I call her, she comes when I ask "Who wants to eat?", she is so playful when she's in the mood to play with me, she's so snuggly and loves head scratches, she comes out and says hi to strangers when we have company... Man, I wish I could book a session with Jackson Galaxy!

As for moving, I think the biggest challenge would be the actual transfer. I can't fly with her given that I would have to take her out of the carrier at TSA (I can't hold her for more than 4 seconds) and driving would be 14hrs! I mean once I'm gone, my husband will be the feeder and playmate so she will probably get used to him and start forming a bond. However, I will make him do more this month and then we will re-evaluate the situation once I'm gone for a month or so.

During Marvin's let out time, I had him stay with me in my office so I could keep a close eye on him.  If he saw my other cat or heard him jump down, he was off in a flash.  Yet once I removed the litter box and got rid of the lavender, he was so much calmer.  He found a chair by the window and loved to sit in the sun with me. 

It is most important that your husband be interacting with Oskar now.  It will be quite hard on her if you just leave and she hasn't had much to do with your husband.  I would start having him take over all feeding and play sessions now.  You can still be around, but Oskar needs to be ok with him too.  He also should be petting (or trying to pet her).

She most definitely should not be put back outside.  Even if she is shy and scared she is so much safer inside.  It may take her a good long while to fully adjust. 

Maybe try doing some conditioning on her when she starts the pacing.  Call her over to play and offer a treat.  Just keep doing this each time she paces.  See if she can associate you calling her with getting a treat. 

 

[alexisontofu]

shadowsrescue I am happy to report that I am witnessing beautiful, tho small, progress.

Oskar now spends most of her time outside her safe room. She still sleeps down there during the day but comes upstairs every 2 hrs or so for an hour or so.

She still paces, A LOT, but she is taking longer chill breaks where she just lays down and looks around/grooms herself.

She is starting to play by herself with battery operated toys or wands that I stick into the couch (still no interest in mice, balls, etc).

The only sound she is afraid of is the front door (blender, garbage disposal, dishwasher, shower, etc she is totally ok with). Last night she even napped on the couch while my husband and I were making dinner (lots of noise).

She is starting to use vertical space to get away from Uszka when she is being chased.

image.jpeg

• alexisontofu
• Aug 7, 2016

She is still scared of Uszka but I've had several successful brief play sessions with them together on the floor across from each other. And the times when they are ok with each other seem to be increasing. Here's the whole gang together (very first picture of all of them yaaaay)

image.jpeg

• alexisontofu
• Aug 7, 2016

 

[shadowsrescue]

I am so happy!!!!  Using vertical space is so great.  I remember when Marvin first started using it!!  I imagine the pacing will continue to decrease as time goes by.

Keep giving the Composure for awhile.  I used it daily with Marvin for over 6 months.  I was able to lower the dose, but whenever I took him off, all heck broke loose. 

Forgot to mention that I just love the picture of the entire gang!!! 

 

[alexisontofu]

I am so happy!!!!  Using vertical space is so great.  I remember when Marvin first started using it!!  I imagine the pacing will continue to decrease as time goes by.

Keep giving the Composure for awhile.  I used it daily with Marvin for over 6 months.  I was able to lower the dose, but whenever I took him off, all heck broke loose. 

Forgot to mention that I just love the picture of the entire gang!!! 

So you think it's safe to continue giving the double dose?

 

[shadowsrescue]

 

I am so happy!!!!  Using vertical space is so great.  I remember when Marvin first started using it!!  I imagine the pacing will continue to decrease as time goes by.

Keep giving the Composure for awhile.  I used it daily with Marvin for over 6 months.  I was able to lower the dose, but whenever I took him off, all heck broke loose. 

Forgot to mention that I just love the picture of the entire gang!!! 

So you think it's safe to continue giving the double dose?

I believe so.  I gave the double dose in the morning and a regular dose in the evening.  I did this for many months.  You can try to make the dose a regular one and see if you notice a difference.  I would think that with you leaving soon, it will be best to keep her on it. 

Is your husband beginning to interact with her more?

 

[alexisontofu]

shadowsrescue since she's become quite good at night I'll try to give regular dose in the evening and double dose in the AM.

Oskar is definitely getting better with my husband. He works a lot versus me being home with Oskar all day so obviously there's a huge difference in opportunities. But she's letting him pet her from time to time and he takes 20min a day to play with her. When he's home he also does the feedings.

Uszka however is getting worse again. Today was especially bad. She never attacks Oskar but corners her and Oskar starts screaming, which brings out my mama bear instincts (I can't help but let out a scream, run over and move Uszka away). I know this is bad and I've even considered duck taping my mouth so that won't happen. How did things evolve with Marvin and the others? Oskar doesn't stand up for herself but is so so scared. I feel horrible. Absolutely horrible.

 

[shadowsrescue]

@ShadowsRescue since she's become quite good at night I'll try to give regular dose in the evening and double dose in the AM.

Oskar is definitely getting better with my husband. He works a lot versus me being home with Oskar all day so obviously there's a huge difference in opportunities. But she's letting him pet her from time to time and he takes 20min a day to play with her. When he's home he also does the feedings.

Uszka however is getting worse again. Today was especially bad. She never attacks Oskar but corners her and Oskar starts screaming, which brings out my mama bear instincts (I can't help but let out a scream, run over and move Uszka away). I know this is bad and I've even considered duck taping my mouth so that won't happen. How did things evolve with Marvin and the others? Oskar doesn't stand up for herself but is so so scared. I feel horrible. Absolutely horrible.

It was so hard for me not to hover and watch Marvin's every move.  Marvin was the one who was attacking my resident cat, Jake.  Jake was the dominant cat and Marvin would have none of it.  Marvin would corner Jake too.  I would get myself so upset.  I knew this wasn't helping the situation at all.  It made Jake feel so insecure when I was a nervous wreck. 

One thing that helped was for me to figure out the "hot spot".  It seemed to be the same location.  I used lots and lots of Feliway plug ins and also used Comfort Zone spray in areas where I did not have an outlet.  I had to respray daily, but it did seem to help. 
 

Jake was my tree dweller and preferred to stay up high in his cat tree most of the day.  I would listen for him to jump down as I knew Marvin would go after him.  I started redirecting Marvin immediately.  Sometimes I used a toy, but mostly I used plain cooked chicken.  This was the winner.  Each time Marvin started after Jake or even had a look in his eye, I would grab the bag of chicken and the two came running.  They started to associate each other with chicken. 

I also used time outs with Marvin.  When he would chase him up the stairs and corner him, I would take him to his safe room and close the door.  I left him there for 5 minutes.  He was then allowed out.  If he did it again, he had to stay 10-15 minutes.  If he did it a 3rd time, he was there for the rest of the evening or for at least an hour.  This too worked as Marvin by this point wanted to be out of his room as much as possible.  This may be harder for you to do with Uszka, but it also might work. 

It is very odd, as Marvin had a total change in personality.  The more I calmed, the softer he became.  Jake then started to assert himself and Marvin was very docile.  Now, Jake is 100% the dominant cat and Marvin is so very go with the flow.  He loves Jake.  They groom each other, sleep near each other and play play play.  It just took time and so much work!   But in the end it all paid off.

 

[alexisontofu]

It was so hard for me not to hover and watch Marvin's every move.  Marvin was the one who was attacking my resident cat, Jake.  Jake was the dominant cat and Marvin would have none of it.  Marvin would corner Jake too.  I would get myself so upset.  I knew this wasn't helping the situation at all.  It made Jake feel so insecure when I was a nervous wreck. 

One thing that helped was for me to figure out the "hot spot".  It seemed to be the same location.  I used lots and lots of Feliway plug ins and also used Comfort Zone spray in areas where I did not have an outlet.  I had to respray daily, but it did seem to help. 

 
Jake was my tree dweller and preferred to stay up high in his cat tree most of the day.  I would listen for him to jump down as I knew Marvin would go after him.  I started redirecting Marvin immediately.  Sometimes I used a toy, but mostly I used plain cooked chicken.  This was the winner.  Each time Marvin started after Jake or even had a look in his eye, I would grab the bag of chicken and the two came running.  They started to associate each other with chicken. 

I also used time outs with Marvin.  When he would chase him up the stairs and corner him, I would take him to his safe room and close the door.  I left him there for 5 minutes.  He was then allowed out.  If he did it again, he had to stay 10-15 minutes.  If he did it a 3rd time, he was there for the rest of the evening or for at least an hour.  This too worked as Marvin by this point wanted to be out of his room as much as possible.  This may be harder for you to do with Uszka, but it also might work. 

It is very odd, as Marvin had a total change in personality.  The more I calmed, the softer he became.  Jake then started to assert himself and Marvin was very docile.  Now, Jake is 100% the dominant cat and Marvin is so very go with the flow.  He loves Jake.  They groom each other, sleep near each other and play play play.  It just took time and so much work!   But in the end it all paid off.

It's funny you say that. My mother firmly believes that me moving away for a year may actually be a good thing because of my overcaring, overprotective nature.
She says that Oskar needs to learn to assert herself without me rescuing her constantly. I mean 90% of the time I chase after Uszka who chases after Oskar. And Oskar is starting to either hide behind me and Usz is on her Oskar hunt or after a chase she looks at me to give her to ok to come out from her hiding spot.

When she goes after Oskar I put her in time outs as well (same as you, the more offenses, the longer the time out), which seems to decrease chases for sure. We have feliway in almost any outlet that's not by a vent but it doesn't seem to help. I'll start spray now when they're out together. I have not noticed any hot spots. It's anywhere in the house.

The interesting dynamics are, however, that I don't think we have a top cat! Catsby dominates Uszka, Uszka dominates Oskar, and Oskar dominates Catsby. Uszka has NO qualities of a top cat. She is the epithamy of a scardy cat. Afraid of her own shadow and constantly on edge. Even my vet once mentioned that she may benefit from medication. I wonder if her chasing is more defensive and offensive.

 

[alexisontofu]

Hi shadowsrescue and everyone else who may have followed my journey of taking in Oskar! I thought you may be interested in an update since its been a while.

Oskar is doing very well. She does not go to her safe room at all anymore and has claimed one of our couches as her sleeping spot. I frankly don't remember the last time I saw her sleeping in her safe room. She has learned to chase a ball and it's getting easier and easier to get her to play, tho she still doesn't play by herself except with battery operated interactive toys *sigh*

She still paces, especially in the morning but we have come to just accept that and are looking at it from a different perspective. A few weeks ago I was watching my favorite show (of course I mean My Cat from Hell), and the cat had the problem of peeing everywhere and pacing from window to window like Oskar does. Turned out that the pacing was related to the cat patrolling the perimeter, as the owner was feeding strays outside. And that made me think that it's likely what's happening with Oskar. Our backyard was HER territory (she once even chased a raccoon that tried to get into the house off of the property) and she keeps patrolling it to this day.

I have seen multiple awkward attempts to play with Catsby but there's still aggression in her attempts that scare him but overall she's really ok with him. Things with Uszka are also improving. Turns out Uszka had a UTI for God knows how long (we didn't notice it because she never strained to urinate) and since we treated it, she has almost stopped chasing Oskar. It now happens maybe 2x/day and I just let it happen. Once she corners Oskar, Oskar growls louder and louder until Uszka goes away. They now even sleep on the same couch sometimes.

She has also become 100% used to all the sounds in the house and nothing scares her anymore. Even the front door. She actually now sits at the stairs all interested in seeing my husband come in and leave. And best of all, she has no stranger danger and greets guests like a regular house cat

It's crazy to think back 3 months and realize how far Oskar has come. I am so happy to have taken her in. I truly love her to death!!!!!

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• alexisontofu
• Aug 29, 2016

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• alexisontofu
• Aug 29, 2016

 

[shadowsrescue]

Thank you so much for the most wonderful update!!!  I am so happy that things are going so well. 

I know your journey is taking you elsewhere soon.  How wonderful she is doing so well now.  It must give you lots of comfort.

Keep updating.

 

[alexisontofu]

Thank you so much for the most wonderful update!!!  I am so happy that things are going so well. 

I know your journey is taking you elsewhere soon.  How wonderful she is doing so well now.  It must give you lots of comfort.

Keep updating.

Yes, I am moving away this Wednesday but I will fly home every weekend to see my babies..... And maybe my husband too HAHAHAHA (he knows I'm mostly coming home bc of the cats).

I will keep updating this post sporadically to give hope and encouragement to those who take in these beautiful creatures in hopes to offer a better life

 

[shadowsrescue]

I wish you the best in your move.  How wonderful that you can come back each weekend.  That will certainly make things easier.