Feral Or Used To Be Feral?

[vyger]

I agree that the term feral refers to being wild and so when a cat is no longer wild it is not really feral anymore. In addition kittens that might have been born outside are not feral if they have been socialized. Even if they are outside cats they are not feral if they have a relationship with people. Four of my ten current cats were born to a true feral mom and dad. Two others are the grown kittens of 2 of those four. But because I found and relocated all of the litters and had daily contact with the kittens they did not grow up wild. It's a big long story but the feral mom was the cat that came in from the cold and had her kittens where I could look after them and protect them in an enclosed entryway. She stayed wild but came and went as she wanted. I did prevent her from relocating the kittens which she wasn't that happy about but she got over it. it was the first litter of kittens that she had that actually survived. And then she had a second litter which also mostly survived. So she stayed wild but the kittens were not.
I have a feral tom that has been staying here regularly all winter now. He is truly wild. He lived on what he could catch or steal for years. This last year he decided he liked getting food everyday and then decided he liked getting petted. He is used to me now but every now and then his wild side comes out. He is very afraid of people he doesn't know. He has never been aggressive towards me but I have never given him a reason to be. Anyway, he is somewhat tamed but I have no idea how he will react if he were taken to a vet. I might get the chance to find out this spring as I am planing on taking him to a spay and neuter clinic provided he is around when it happens. He has never been in a cage or carrier and I don't think he will react to well to it. After the snow finally disappears I plan on introducing him to the idea of being caged. We will see how it goes. By the way he weighs in at about 17 pounds so if he decided to be a problem he could do some serious damage. But he is wild, tamed a bit, liking my company, but still feral.

 

[di and bob]

You can't get them used to being caged, it just makes them want to avoid it more. You will be doing him a great service if you take him in to be neutered, Toms almost always get abscesses, torn ears, lose eyes, and fight almost constantly. They leave my neutered boys alone. He will not like being caged at all, he may bloody his nose trying to get pout, you must prepare yourself for the pain in your heart, I always feel sick to my stomach. Cover the cage right away with a blanket to calm him down, and make sure the cage is marked with a BIG sign that says DO NOT HANDLE-FERAL/ WILD CAT!! and that the vet has a 'chamber' to calm them down with gas to minimize handling. You don't want someone getting bit and him put down/isolated to check for rabies. My neutered boys are all ignored by the big Toms, and are MUCH happier in the long run, Good luck and be strong!

 

[kittychick]

vyger - I'm assuming that by "getting him used to being caged" you mean getting him used to going into a carrier or live trap? I see that di and bob definitely thought that's what you meant (at first I thought you meant - used to being in a cage all of the time - like "kenneling" a dog - -I was glad that it looks like I was wrong on that!

Boy - - di and bob got the "pain in your heart" part right! I've decided the worry and stress of waiting for them to go in and trip the trip plate in a trap doesn't ever really go away - -and neither does the weird combo feeling of nerve-wracking and stomach churning combined with elation when you do "get them". And then there's the "fun" of driving them to the clinic. I just always remind myself we're doing it for the right reasons - - they don't know it, but we're saving them from a life of (as you pointed out) torn ears, abscesses, fighting for mates and territory (not to mention making babies like crazy!).

I will say though that you'll have better trapping success if you to "get him used to it" in the sense that he's not unnerved by the very presence of the live trap. Despite the fact that he's obviously developed a sense of trust with you, but it doesn't sound like he's ready to be put into and transported by cat carrier. And actually most spay neuter clinics state that they won't allow you to bring a cat in to be fixed in a carrier unless the cat's able to be handled by people other than their caretaker. Cats who are at a stage like your dear guy is (at least in the clinics I've been involved with) absolutely have to be brought in to the clinic in a live trap.

Live trapping will go alot easier and faster if you get your live-trap (our clinics rent them out for a completely refundable deposit - - and be sure to get the biggest one you can since your guy's so big!) days ahead, set it where you normally feed him, but wire it open so he can't trip the trip plate. Then put his food in the trap (and I always add a little canned mackerel so it's extra tempting to go into the trap to eat (some cats will go in and eat out of the trap the first night/day - - some take a big longer). But the idea is to get him used to going in and eating - - and going in and eating is even extra special with the mackerel. Once he's eaten in the trap a few times, then the morning of his neutering, actually set the trap with a teeny bit of mackerel. You have to actually watch the trap as you want to (as di and bob point out) - - the minute he's trapped inside, he will likely have a panic fit. Don't give in and open the trap, because once a cat's been trapped, they're so smart that they're tough to trap a second time! So have a blanket ready and the second he's trapped, run cover the trap completely. The vast portion of cats calm down completely and go quiet and still once the trap's covered.

You might want to start a new thread yourself about trapping/getting your guy fixed/after care/etc. Good luck and keep us all posted!

 

[vyger]

vyger - I'm assuming that by "getting him used to being caged" you mean getting him used to going into a carrier or live trap? I see that di and bob definitely thought that's what you meant (at first I thought you meant - used to being in a cage all of the time - like "kenneling" a dog - -I was glad that it looks like I was wrong on that!

Boy - - di and bob got the "pain in your heart" part right! I've decided the worry and stress of waiting for them to go in and trip the trip plate in a trap doesn't ever really go away - -and neither does the weird combo feeling of nerve-wracking and stomach churning combined with elation when you do "get them". And then there's the "fun" of driving them to the clinic. I just always remind myself we're doing it for the right reasons - - they don't know it, but we're saving them from a life of (as you pointed out) torn ears, abscesses, fighting for mates and territory (not to mention making babies like crazy!).

I will say though that you'll have better trapping success if you to "get him used to it" in the sense that he's not unnerved by the very presence of the live trap. Despite the fact that he's obviously developed a sense of trust with you, but it doesn't sound like he's ready to be put into and transported by cat carrier. And actually most spay neuter clinics state that they won't allow you to bring a cat in to be fixed in a carrier unless the cat's able to be handled by people other than their caretaker. Cats who are at a stage like your dear guy is (at least in the clinics I've been involved with) absolutely have to be brought in to the clinic in a live trap.

Live trapping will go alot easier and faster if you get your live-trap (our clinics rent them out for a completely refundable deposit - - and be sure to get the biggest one you can since your guy's so big!) days ahead, set it where you normally feed him, but wire it open so he can't trip the trip plate. Then put his food in the trap (and I always add a little canned mackerel so it's extra tempting to go into the trap to eat (some cats will go in and eat out of the trap the first night/day - - some take a big longer). But the idea is to get him used to going in and eating - - and going in and eating is even extra special with the mackerel. Once he's eaten in the trap a few times, then the morning of his neutering, actually set the trap with a teeny bit of mackerel. You have to actually watch the trap as you want to (as di and bob point out) - - the minute he's trapped inside, he will likely have a panic fit. Don't give in and open the trap, because once a cat's been trapped, they're so smart that they're tough to trap a second time! So have a blanket ready and the second he's trapped, run cover the trap completely. The vast portion of cats calm down completely and go quiet and still once the trap's covered.

You might want to start a new thread yourself about trapping/getting your guy fixed/after care/etc. Good luck and keep us all posted!

I don't actually need to trap Scottie. In fact all I have to do is sit down and call him over. This fall I discovered that he has a big white spot on his belly after he climbed into my lap and rolled over. But he can only take so much of getting his tummy rubbed because I think he is ticklish. We have progressed very slowly and I always introduce new things to him so he can get used to it. Everything in terms of dealing with people has been new for him. He got really scared and jumped one time because I sneezed. Now he is OK with it. So I will bring out the big carrier I have and leave it open so he can explore it. Then put him inside a few times with the door open and then try an latch the door. After that is the picking it up stage. He likely will not like that. He doesn't like riding in the wheelbarrow I use for firewood so he probably will not care for something that moves. He follows me around when I go to load up firewood. When I have a full wheelbarrow I would put him on top so he could ride back. Some of the other cats think its great fun and some don't like it at all and jump off. He jumps off so most likely he will not like riding in a carrier. I may even try loading him into the van and driving a little so he will get used to it. We will see how things go. He has no problem with being carried and actually kind of liked it when I carried him across some of the big snow drifts this winter. So trust is not an issue but being exposed to new things is sometimes.
I believe it has been close to four years now that I have been seeing him. I had a dumped cat show up, probably about 6 months old and she promptly went into heat and then 4 toms showed up and Scottie was one of them. The dumped cat was not tame ( I named her Orbit because she used to circle around me just far enough away so she was out of reach) and of course she ended up with kittens. Two of the toms ended up dead on the road, another one I never saw again and Scottie stayed around hiding from view and grabbing food when he could get it. Everytime he saw me he would run. And he would disappear for months at a time and then show up again. Very gradually he got used to me and became less afraid. I named him Scottie because I at first thought he was a Scottish fold because his ears looked folded but I couldn't get close enough to tell. Last spring and summer the fear finally faded and we made big progress. Part of it was because he had become very attached to regular food. I have several cats that like being outside and mostly stay out when the weather is good so I have dishes for them outside. So what I started doing was just sitting down when I put food out for the others. They would come and eat and get petted and Scottie sat at a distance waiting for me to leave so he could come and get some. But I just sat there, and the others ate most of what was there and when I finally left he would just get leftovers. He really wanted the food so he got a litter closer each day and finally started eating from the dish while I was still there. Anyway, he stopped being afraid and discovered he liked being petted and we progressed from there. No traps, just gradually becoming friends. He behaves really well with the rest of the cats. He did fight with Homer for a while but that has stopped and they just give each other dirty looks mostly.
From what I could tell after he let me look at his ears it appears that they have been frostbitten and it damaged the cartilage in them so he is not a Scottish fold, just a frosted kitty.
Just now, after being gone for a few days he showed up with both of his ears bleeding, one of them looking pretty bad. So likely he got into a pretty big fight. I may have to give him some antibiotics because one looks like it is swelling. Taking him to a vet isn't really an option because the closest one is 60 miles away and he most likely would not do well with the trip because he has not been introduced to that yet. But I have meds and can treat him. Bottom line is yes he needs to have his love life curtailed. So hopefully we will get that taken care of this spring.
The spay and neuter clinics they do here are not done by local vets. There is a veterinary college that sends final year students as a mobile surgical unit so they can get surgical experience. They have an instructor and a regular vet to oversee everything and they set up surgical stations and do all dogs and cats that are brought in. Several times they have set it all up on a basketball court. Some of the cats that are brought in are totally wild, never been handled right off the farms. I was there once when somebody brought in a batch of wild kittens in a box. We all suggested that they be taken care of them first because it looked like it wouldn't be long before they chewed their way out. Even the local police get involved and they pick up strays off the streets and bring them in. I always thought that would be pretty funny when Fido shows up back home with some parts missing. Anyway, I have thought about doing an article about the whole thing. Volunteers are often an important part of the process as they need people to sit with the animals as they come out of anesthesia. So it's a community effort in an area that is "in the middle of nowhere".

 

[alphakitty]

I agree that the term feral refers to being wild and so when a cat is no longer wild it is not really feral anymore. In addition kittens that might have been born outside are not feral if they have been socialized. Even if they are outside cats they are not feral if they have a relationship with people. Four of my ten current cats were born to a true feral mom and dad. Two others are the grown kittens of 2 of those four. But because I found and relocated all of the litters and had daily contact with the kittens they did not grow up wild. It's a big long story but the feral mom was the cat that came in from the cold and had her kittens where I could look after them and protect them in an enclosed entryway. She stayed wild but came and went as she wanted. I did prevent her from relocating the kittens which she wasn't that happy about but she got over it. it was the first litter of kittens that she had that actually survived. And then she had a second litter which also mostly survived. So she stayed wild but the kittens were not.
I have a feral tom that has been staying here regularly all winter now. He is truly wild. He lived on what he could catch or steal for years. This last year he decided he liked getting food everyday and then decided he liked getting petted. He is used to me now but every now and then his wild side comes out. He is very afraid of people he doesn't know. He has never been aggressive towards me but I have never given him a reason to be. Anyway, he is somewhat tamed but I have no idea how he will react if he were taken to a vet. I might get the chance to find out this spring as I am planing on taking him to a spay and neuter clinic provided he is around when it happens. He has never been in a cage or carrier and I don't think he will react to well to it. After the snow finally disappears I plan on introducing him to the idea of being caged. We will see how it goes. By the way he weighs in at about 17 pounds so if he decided to be a problem he could do some serious damage. But he is wild, tamed a bit, liking my company, but still feral.

Hah hah 17lbs, he's ah fat little kitty! Yeah, its true...authentic feral kitties can be socialized, but it takes time and....I think...a certain gene predisposition, and as my Gal says, "the feedbag"!

But I have also seen adult cats who were not social, change, they can change. I tried for many years to socialize one particular kitty. I could not get close to him. A blonde male kitty. He became seriously ill and blind. The vets prescribed incorrect medication which caused him to become blind!!! I changed vets. He often cried out, to which I always responded, sometimes just petting him, other times bringing him a syringe filled with water or tuna juice, to help ease his suffering. The day he changed and started following me around, like a puppy, I took him to a vet and had him put to sleep. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. The day he began trusting me, my first act was to put him to sleep. It was hard, its been years now and still brings tears...

But they can change with lots of love.

AlphaKitty