Early neutering UK and US

[purrpaws]

My understanding is that they will recover faster if they are younger. That seems to negate the "cruel" argument. Another reason I like early neuters is that, IMO, especially with boys, the hormones will affect some of their behaviors and beyond a certain point of (mental) development, neutering may not reverse it. For example, Prego was neutered at the HS and was already three. He has a bit of overstimulation agression. I always wonder if he had been nuetered earlier, if that would have been different. I've had him well over 3 years now, so the hormones have had plenty of time to leave his system.

I'm no expert on this, and it's just MO.

 

[tiffanyjbt]

My Duke is 7 months old and he was neutered a little over a month ago. He has overstimulation aggression issues too, but I am 99% sure it has nothing to do with me waiting to neuter him (not that I had a much of a choice) and everything to do with him being sold to me at the tender young age of 6 weeks old. I would have never neutered him at 8 weeks either, but thats because he had some health issues at the time.

Im no expert either. I'm just here to learn.

 

[mia mouse]

I think alot of the Vets out there are "old school" and don't want to change their ways. They would need to go back and learn the techniques, and then practice the techniques. Most mixed (dog and cat) practices make the majority of their money on the dogs. If you find a feline only practice with younger doctors you have a better chance of finding one that will do early S/N. The AAFP has a search tool for doctors in your area.http://www.aafponline.org/index.htm

Many Vet schools now teach early S/N as part of their regular curriculum....Tufts, U C Davis, Washington State, and TexasA&M. In fact you can order a video from U C Davis, Early Age Spay and Neutering - A practical Guide for Veterinarians. I ordered it with the hope of convincing my Vet but I ended up moving before I needed the service. I found a wonderful Vet who does the early surgery in my new home area.

As far as side effects there really aren't any. They have been studying this technique on cat and dogs for over 25 years.

Remember when it was standard Veterinary practice to wait until after the first litter to alter? The thought here was that it was better for the dog to be "fully mature". When Vets started altering before the first litter the incidence of canine mammary tumors in some breeds was reduced to zero. Times change and with that change we learn but change comes slowly because the "old school" has to be replaced by the newer generation of thinking.

 

[sims2fan]

Thanks Mia but I am located in the UK. In the US it seems like most vet neuter at 6months but there are some who do neuter early, in the UK the number of vets who do early neuters are even less. My mentor knows of some one but they are quite far from me, I will still go there if I can't find anyone closer.

 

[mia mouse]

Oh I did not notice the location, sorry

If you found a vet that would consider it you could get them the Video....oh wait you have different video there don't you? Well it wouldn't hurt to look into the video you may be able to get it transfered to DVD if you ask them?

I am surprised they have not gone to DVD I don't think you can even get videos in stores here anymore .

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsn...e2.cfm?id=1010

 

[crazyforinfo]

The Woman's Humane Society has a 2 month waiting list for neutering. We called our local vet and they said under 4 months is not an option. They prefer the cat to be 6 months or older but if need be will do it before 6 months.

 

[celestialrags]

Originally Posted by Sims2fan

I know one breeder on this site (I think celestialrags sorry if I'm wrong) does have her kittens neutered before they go to new homes. I thought that was such a great idea and since I had to call around to find breeder friendly vets I asked about early neutering, I really didn't expect that response.

Yes they are babies whether at 5weeks or 5months! Why can't people see this is a good thing?

I do alter at 12 weeks (2 pounds) so they are done before they go to their new homes. You were right. I think a couple other breeders here do as well, but the one that I know of is Familytimerags, and if she hasn't replied tp this (I just found it and haven't read all the way through yet, since there are 45 posts, LOL!) she would be the one to ask about it. She has been doing it for a while and may even have a list of vets that will do it. I have just started doing it. I have had 3 liters and only the last I had altered before they went home. So the first 2 I didn't have done first, I couldn't find one. I had a hard time finding a vet to do early altering, I had one that laughed at me and told me I wouldn't find one in maine that would. I knew some one did, I know of 2 or 3 breeders that do it, so it just took a lot patience and phone calls. I finally found one that said they did that for one breeder a ragdoll breeder even, and they would get back to me if the vet would allow me to also. They never called me so I called them and they agreed. They only early alter for me and one other breeder so I got lucky. I have been very happy with having it done and the new owners that had it done when they got my kittens were very happy with it too. Kluchetta, on this site has one from me, and I don't believe she has had any problems and was glad it was done (she may have replied sorry if she has, there were just too many posts to read through,LOL!) I would recomend doing it to any one that it is available for, find breeders that do it in your area to see who they use, and see if they can do alters for you as well. It is such a load off your mind to know your kittens aren't stuffed in a cage being a kitten factory for some BYB, it's already done, and that's one thing you won't ever have to worry about!

 

[sims2fan]

Thanks for the great advice

My mentor knows of some one, although they are quite far away from me, it worth it because as you say its one less thing to worry about. The idea of them becoming pawns in a BYB's money-making scheme is horrific. I'm just glad I got into the right group of breeders and that my mentor is brutally honest. She gave me some really good advice about a Siamese kitten I was thinking of getting with a great pedigree. She said although it was filled with champions and grand champions the health wasn't there. Winning awards is all well and good but breeding healthy kittens is more important.

 

[booktigger]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, I can't remember and no time to go through - did someone mention one of the London rescues that do early neutering? If not, they might be worth contacting in case they can let you knw the name of the vet. Shame you are so far south, I know vets in Sheffield and somewhere else in West Yorks that neuter as early as 8-12 weeks.

 

[sims2fan]

Wow thats amazing! The local shelter I fostered for doesn't neuter till six months either.

 

[celestialrags]

Originally Posted by Sims2fan

Thanks for the great advice

My mentor knows of some one, although they are quite far away from me, it worth it because as you say its one less thing to worry about. The idea of them becoming pawns in a BYB's money-making scheme is horrific. I'm just glad I got into the right group of breeders and that my mentor is brutally honest. She gave me some really good advice about a Siamese kitten I was thinking of getting with a great pedigree. She said although it was filled with champions and grand champions the health wasn't there. Winning awards is all well and good but breeding healthy kittens is more important.

My vet isn't too close, althought 45 mins or so. So I have to drive an hour and a half to drop them off and come home and wait to pick them up another hour and a half to pick them up and go home. I feel it is worth it for so many reasons, mostly the health of them. It decreases their chance of mammary cancer by some thing like 80% (I think) if the females are spayed before their first heat. I also am concerned of the new family becoming busy, putting off spaying, only to find them selves with a pregnant cat. So I really like having the alters done myself.
Breeding healthy kittens is the most important thing.
My original vet didn't do it or recomend it so when my mentor first told me I should do it I wasn't sure of it. She didn't hound me about it but wanted me to do it. I kept checking and found one, so I thought about it. Familytimerags was a big help with me deciding it really was best but, she gave all the info and studies as well as personal expiriences to show why it was though. I don't think there are any negatives to it. So I will continue to have pediatric alters done with my kittens.

Originally Posted by Sims2fan

Wow thats amazing! The local shelter I fostered for doesn't neuter till six months either.

Both shelters I worked at gives a certificate with older dogs. Any purebred they had concerns about potential people being interested in them for breeding reguardless of a contract (poodle, pug, pom, a nice young boxer of some thing) some times they would use a free alter they have with a vet and have it done first. They had a certifiacte with puppies too, and they had to be done at 6 months. Most of these vets just don't do it. A few shelters further a way may be doing young animals first, but the two I was at it is 6 months.

 

[familytimerags]

Leslye wrote: "My original vet didn't do it or recomend it so when my mentor first told me I should do it I wasn't sure of it. She didn't hound me about it but wanted me to do it. I kept checking and found one, so I thought about it. Familytimerags was a big help with me deciding it really was best but, she gave all the info and studies as well as personal expiriences to show why it was though. I don't think there are any negatives to it. So I will continue to have pediatric alters done with my kittens."

Hi Leslye,

I am glad I was of any help to encourage pediatric altering. I am even happier that you have found someone that will perform the surgery and that you found it to be an easy on your kittens. It is still my hope that many breeders and vets alike will begin to catch on to this practice for the many benefits it brings.
I remember when I was first searching for a vet to do early altering, I wasn't really sure what I would find, my mentor lived 3 hours away, but I was fully prepared to drive that if it was needed. Luckily, in the Oklahoma City metro area and small suburban cities surrounding us, there are many vets that have begun doing the early altering.
I would love to see more education for dogs placed for early altering. I have heard of shelters doing it before, and haven't heard of any issues, however, I am unaware of any studies that have been done or are being done as we speak. If there is no short or long term complications, I would love to see puppies spayed and neutered earlier as well.
It would be my hope that if early altering does catch on that we begin seeing a great decrease in the population of pets turned into shelters and rescues.
Merry Christmas to you and Celeste, and the Celestialrags Raggies from our furry and non-furry family. May many blessings come to you in 2007.

 

[tnr1]

I have heard of shelters doing it before, and haven't heard of any issues, however, I am unaware of any studies that have been done or are being done as we speak. If there is no short or long term complications, I would love to see puppies spayed and neutered earlier as well.

The rescue I volunteer with spays/neuters puppies at 8-12 weeks of age (same with kittens). We have done this for over 3 years and have not had a single dog or cat come back to our rescue as a result of an issue with the pediatric spay/neuter. It has been so wonderful to know that none of our cats or dogs will ever contribute to the overpopulation.

Katie

 

[familytimerags]

Originally Posted by TNR1

The rescue I volunteer with spays/neuters puppies at 8-12 weeks of age (same with kittens). We have done this for over 3 years and have not had a single dog or cat come back to our rescue as a result of an issue with the pediatric spay/neuter. It has been so wonderful to know that none of our cats or dogs will ever contribute to the overpopulation.

Katie

Katie,

That is amazing and wonderful, I knew your rescue did kittens, but didn't realize they did puppies as well. It is also so great to know that you have experienced this for 3 years and so far no problems reported. You work with vets that should be very commended, as well as you for helping educate others on pediatric spay and neuter.
I am also assuming the rescue has done small and large breed dogs as well? I know I have mentioned on a dog forum in the past about pediatric altering and did anger a few who mentioned that it was dangerous on large breed dogs, but gave no supporting facts. Do you know if any studies or educational links regarding altering and dogs? This is something I have searched for, but not had really any luck finding supporting articles, nor have I seen any dog breeders that support early altering.
It may be a longer process than I wish to see, but I really believe in a matter of years, the issue of pediatric altering will not be so borderline.
Katie, keep up your wonderful work with rescue, you make a tremendous difference.
Merry Christmas!!

 

[celestialrags]

I am curious why some would say it is more dangerous for a large breed dog then small breeds or cats.
Katie, your rescue does them at 8-12 weeks but does weight make a difference? My vet won't do it if they are under 2 pounds, is it the same with puppies? I thought I read some where they should be 3 or 4 pounds, is that correct? or does it make a difference? What about the toy breeds? Are they done as early or do you wait for them to be a certain weight? some of those toy breeds barely get 5 pounds as adults.

FTR, I have been looking to find a dog lately. I have missed having one so I have been checking out breeders lately, and I have found a Borzoi breeder in Texas that alters all of her pups before placing them too. I am mostly looking for cat sites or on a cat forum except lately trying to find a borzoi, so I haven't run across very many dog breeders doing it as cats, so I wonder how many do pediatric alters. I wonder if there is more dog breeders then cat breeders (since there are more breeds of dogs there fore there are more dog breeders) that do alter or if it is the other way around, more kittens done then puppies? I will have to look at dog breeders now to see if I can find as many as I have found of cat breeders that do it, I am curious now, LOL!

 

[tnr1]

Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags

Katie,

That is amazing and wonderful, I knew your rescue did kittens, but didn't realize they did puppies as well. It is also so great to know that you have experienced this for 3 years and so far no problems reported. You work with vets that should be very commended, as well as you for helping educate others on pediatric spay and neuter.
I am also assuming the rescue has done small and large breed dogs as well? I know I have mentioned on a dog forum in the past about pediatric altering and did anger a few who mentioned that it was dangerous on large breed dogs, but gave no supporting facts. Do you know if any studies or educational links regarding altering and dogs? This is something I have searched for, but not had really any luck finding supporting articles, nor have I seen any dog breeders that support early altering.
It may be a longer process than I wish to see, but I really believe in a matter of years, the issue of pediatric altering will not be so borderline.
Katie, keep up your wonderful work with rescue, you make a tremendous difference.
Merry Christmas!!

We fix all our dogs before they are adopted and they have ranged from 10 lbs to over 100 lbs. Here is what I found:

http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm

http://www.petfinder.com/journalinde...ne/2.21.19.txt

http://www.darlenearden.com/artclespay.htm

http://www.danesonline.com/earlyspayneuter.htm

 

[merrytreecats]

Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt

No. I'm still looking though. This is actually one of the problems I have with the current research. I understand the benefits of neutering, but it seems like those 'in the know' are either witholding info or just not bothering to do the research because they don't want to discourage people from altering their cats.

I found this:

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...vet/neutr.html

It's about dogs, though. I'm not sure whether the same is true of cats or not. In the past, cats were treated as small dogs by vets, but obviously there are large differences between cats and dogs.

I've found, in general, that any scientific findings that go against the current political climate are usually silenced. This goes for just about anything. You just have to dig as deep as you can and draw your own conclusions.

I have generally heard good things about early SN. My vet doesn't do it before 5 months old though.

 

[celestialrags]

Originally Posted by merrytreecats

I have generally heard good things about early SN. My vet doesn't do it before 5 months old though.

My original vet wouldn't alter before 6 months either, so I hunted and searched, now I have one that does. I will never again let a kitten of mine go to a home with out being altered previous to adoption. Too many chances of some one being tempted to "make a little money" with a neighbors 'ragdoll look alike' and selling non-papered and possibly non-purebred kittens from a kitten of mine. Or a family getting too busy and putting off spaying, to find them selves with a pregnant kitty. I am working very hard to have great quality cats and kittens with good health, personalities, lines, and having them altered, to make a good name for my cattery as a good honest reputable breeder with healthy happy kittens, I don't want my cattery name attached to kittens bred by an irresponsable person selling my cats kittens with out papers (which they would be, I with held papers until I got proof by a vet they were altered, no neuter cert no papers, so if they bred a cat of mine, they would have to sell them with out papers) I don't take any chances now, all pet kittens are altered!

 

[sims2fan]

Ok I seem to finally have found somewhere open minded, they are not the nearest vet to me, but better than not finding anything. When I spoke to the receptionist she tried to imply that BYB didn't happen in their area, I asked her to get the vets opinion on whether they would consider it. When she got back to me she said that they would do it but I should know that there is a higher risk with the anesthetic. I made an appointment on March 15th and I will take all the reports about early neutering with me for the appointment.

So fingers crossed they seem open minded!

 

[abymummy]

Well done!!!!

At least something positive!!!

Malaysia is not a country that practices early neutering either but my vet does!!!

His rules are simple...At least 1.5kg and healthy!