I'm not a breeder but my fosters get neutered at 6 weeks old mostly. I have a vet that will do them at 1 1/2 lbs. Bagheera was neutered at 14 weeks ad he pbounced back like nothing happened at all. All my other cats were neutered at 6 months or older and they had alot tougher time afterwards.
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Early neutering UK and US
- Thread starter sims2fan
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- #22
I haven't heard anything back from the vet but I will give them a call again in a few hours (its 7.30 am here).
Neither my vet nor the rescue I foster for's vet will spay earlier than 5/6 months - the rescue's vet said it was cos they didn't like operating on babies - I said that surely it is better than babies having babies and the response was like 'yeah, but'. There is another rescue near me that neuter all puppies and kittens at 8 weeks old, as they were getting too many back with babies, and they haven't had any issues in about 14 years of doing it - one of hte few they have lost was a heart condition that prob would have happened if neutered at 6 months. I personally think all cats should be neutered before leaving breeders or rescues, cos as much as contracts state it is done etc, you only have to go into the Pregnant cats forum to see just how determined some cats are.
Incidentally, I read an article when researching mammary cancer that said it was 200 times les likely if spayed before their first heat.
Incidentally, I read an article when researching mammary cancer that said it was 200 times les likely if spayed before their first heat.
I think early spay/neuter is ESSENTIAL to controlling the pet population, I just can't understand rescues/shelters letting their cats go with certificates
we all know how irresponsible the average pet owner can be in getting this taken care of.
as for the growth stunting thing, I had 3 babies, siblings, that came to me all at once, all had been altered at about 3 months I believe, one of the girls was very very tiny, the boy was about average size and the other girl, well, she is a monster
I don't think the altering has anything to do with the size, it has everything to do with the individual cat's genes, just MO
as for the growth stunting thing, I had 3 babies, siblings, that came to me all at once, all had been altered at about 3 months I believe, one of the girls was very very tiny, the boy was about average size and the other girl, well, she is a monster
I find it very interesting to read about early spay/neuter at American forums. In Sweden, where I live, you're a horrible and greedy person if you as a breeder choose to spay/neuter early. The largest cat association in Sweden actuarally wanna FORBID it's members from practising early spay/neuter. Putting a kitten through this surgery is apparently one of the worse things you can do and the only reason you do it for is in order to make money (I don't understand that equation since a spayed/neutered kitten cost more money to raise and is sold for less money than an entire kitten and we don't have huge price differences between entire and altered kittens here).
Many Swedish vets are also horrified by this practise (however, those who do their homework tend to end up as positive to it).
Many Swedish vets are also horrified by this practise (however, those who do their homework tend to end up as positive to it).
We do all of our cats at 2 pounds and have been doing this for years. There is no increased risk of ANYTHING and we haven't seen any ill-effects. Cats of all ages will have a ngative reaction anesthesia and our kittens get huge just like unaltered kittens, only they have no chance of becoming a parent. I have read studies, and I'm not sure how accurate they are, about certain large breed dogs being affected by early s/n, but cats are simply not large breed dogs. Winn Feline Foundation has carried out studies that confirm no increased risk in younger cats. In fact, it actually cut their cancer risk and decreases the recovery time.
I normally tell people to check and see if a rescue will s/n their kittens for them, but a rescue or humane society is not going to work with a breeder, unless the breeder happens to want to have the breeding cats fixed also.
I normally tell people to check and see if a rescue will s/n their kittens for them, but a rescue or humane society is not going to work with a breeder, unless the breeder happens to want to have the breeding cats fixed also.
Studies show that it actually does tend to have an effect on growth, just the opposite of what was speculated. Whatever the chemical/hormonal reaction is that inhibits the growth of the longbones is temporarily halted in cats that are altered before maturity.Originally Posted by katiemae1277
as for the growth stunting thing, I had 3 babies, siblings, that came to me all at once, all had been altered at about 3 months I believe, one of the girls was very very tiny, the boy was about average size and the other girl, well, she is a monsterI don't think the altering has anything to do with the size, it has everything to do with the individual cat's genes, just MO
What I gathered from the Winn article was that there was no significant difference between ESN and altering at 6mos. with regard risks.
I really think the attitude that SOME shelters/rescues/humane societies have towards breeders is detrimental to cat welfare in general. They should all be working together... "Can't we all... Oh nevermind!
I agree....when we are talking about responsible breeders...but there are a lot of people who call themselves breeders and are aren't responsible. Responsible Breeders and Rescues should work together towards educating the public and ending the practice the irresponsible breeding.Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt
I really think the attitude that SOME shelters/rescues/humane societies have towards breeders is detrimental to cat welfare in general. They should all be working together... "Can't we all... Oh nevermind!
Katie
I don't think our attitude is detrimental, I think it's beneficial. Our attitude is spay and neuter them all, no matter what. It could be a completely feral cat who's missing an eye and is aggressive to people or it could be a grand champion breeder pedigreed fancy pants kitty. I like to think that we're equal-opportunity s/n-ers! Our policy is that we need less cats in this world, and that means less cats from every direction. If a breeder wanted their cats fixed by us, we'd be happy to do it, but our policy on kittens is that we'll s/n kittens as long as we can also s/n the mother and/or father (assuming the people have access to the parents, which they do A LOT of the time, but think: that's fewer BYBers out there).Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt
I really think the attitude that SOME shelters/rescues/humane societies have towards breeders is detrimental to cat welfare in general. They should all be working together... "Can't we all... Oh nevermind!
But that's not what this thread is about! Sorry!
Although not stated in the Winn Report...there is an INCREASED risk of pregnancy by waiting until the kittens are 6 months of age. I know this because our rescue group used to adopt on a spay certificate that the cats would be altered by 6 months of age....we had several cats that ended up coming back pregnant prior to 6 months of age. Now that we alter at 10-12 weeks...we don't have a single cat coming back to us pregnant.
Katie
I can see how that would be the case.
As for the breeder thing, you're right about responsible breeders as well as responsible rescues and shelters. Both sides, unfortunately, have their share of 'ugly'. I got my Duke from a BYB before I knew what one was. I thought it was rediculous to spend $500-800 on a cat when I could get 'the same thing' for only $175. I've since done the best that I can to educate myself as much as possible about the cat world. And also to share what I've learned with anyone who may not know. If breeders and rescues and shelters worked together to EDUCATE pet buyers I think it would do a TON of good.
I also think that the clause that lionessrampant has at their rescue (in another thread) about fines and litigation on declawing should be extended to people who 'let' their cats get pregnant.
What we have found is that the majority of pregnancies are in fact accidental...not intentional...which is why we would rather alter the kittens ourselves and take the risk off the new owner.
Pregnancy is quite different from declawing...you cannot "accidentally" declaw a cat.
Katie
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- #34
Ok I called them back and I don't think its good news
. It was a Vettech and he doesn't think that the vet would do it. Apparently its cruel and ineffective esp with the males as the testicles would not have descended at the point. I pointed out that it was being done in the US with no problem and he ignored that repeating the stuff he said before.
He did have some good news though
, he said that I could get a contract with the buyers to make them promise to neuter the kitties. GRR I explained that yes I have heard of a contract but accidents do happen. I mean Rocket and Mica mated at five months old! I called their former vet and BEGGED (I think my crying did it in the end!) for him to get them fixed, he made an exception and neutered them both a month early. I feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall. Besides what about BYB breeders? They can fool you to get what they want
If they are neutered a BYB wouldn't even be interested. He said to call tomorrow and he would let me know, I am not holding my breath.
He did have some good news though
Radar's were descended when we first took him to the vet at about 12 weeks old
I would have liked to get Radar done a bit earlier than 6 months - I mean as an only cat who lives indoors it was not crucial in terms of risking pregnancy of another cat, but he was starting to get a little rough and aggressive, I was horribly paranoid that he would start spraying, and OMG the smell of his pee could have knocked you out from about 4 months onwards. 2 months of absolutely reeking litter trays no matter how often we cleaned them was not fun! TBH, it's no wonder some people start letting their young tomcats outside before they are neutered just for that reason alone.
But like you, finding a vet who will do it before 6 months is impossible round here.
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- #36
Rocket was 11 weeks old when we first got him and they were there. This is so frustrating...
I'll ask my mentor she said she knew vet who does early neutering but he is far from where I live. Worse comes to worse I could go their with each litter to get them done.
I'll ask my mentor she said she knew vet who does early neutering but he is far from where I live. Worse comes to worse I could go their with each litter to get them done.
Here is what the GCCF say about early neutering - they are in favour. It appears that only our vets are behind on this issue
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- #38
Yes I have read this before! This is what gets to me but they still don't seem to want to listen.
I'm thinking when I next take Rocket and Mica for their vaccinations in Jan, I will take a bunch of these articles with me, and politely ask the vet to read them and get back to me.
I'm thinking when I next take Rocket and Mica for their vaccinations in Jan, I will take a bunch of these articles with me, and politely ask the vet to read them and get back to me.
That's so sad.
I wish more vets would get on board with this, especially overseas. It actually kind of infuriates me that people have taken anthromorphizing to this point. If it's cruel to neuter them at 8 weeks, then it's cruel to neuter them at 6 months. The science is there and says early s/n is the way to go!
I agree though, that all breeders AND shelters need to do this. It also boggles my mind that shelters let pets go unaltered. Absolutely boggles my mind.
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- #40
According to a messybeast article 90% of British pet cats are neutered
http://www.messybeast.com/ukcats.htm this is pretty much consistent with the area I live in I don't know of any unneutered cats here.
The shelter I fostered Toby from does not neuter till six months either. I don't get it! Some shelters here do neuter early (Mayhew is one of them).
I found another interesting article from messybeast about early neutering:
http://www.messybeast.com/earlyneuter.htm
http://www.messybeast.com/ukcats.htm this is pretty much consistent with the area I live in I don't know of any unneutered cats here.
The shelter I fostered Toby from does not neuter till six months either. I don't get it! Some shelters here do neuter early (Mayhew is one of them).
I found another interesting article from messybeast about early neutering:
http://www.messybeast.com/earlyneuter.htm
