Dr. Pitcaim?

[cocoa cream]

Originally Posted by sharky

I get most of mine info from the meat journals and vet journals ( holistic kind).... Mostly that meat off the farm and never frozen still has all the viable enzymes but most meat at a typical grocer is frozen ... the freezing data is 50/50 saying yes and no about whether or not they are merely slowed or are in fact inactivated

So then, when you want to make meals in bulk and freeze them, that could possibly affect the enzymes...if they are inactivated by freezing? Interesting. Still, the other benefits of feeding raw are numerous, so that probably wouldn't change much for me.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by sharky

I get most of mine info from the meat journals and vet journals ( holistic kind).... Mostly that meat off the farm and never frozen still has all the viable enzymes but most meat at a typical grocer is frozen ... the freezing data is 50/50 saying yes and no about whether or not they are merely slowed or are in fact inactivated

Do you find any authoritative (scientific) information about whether raw meat contains any enzymes that are beneficial to digestion? The link referenced above claims not.

I've Googled around and can't find a single case where it is claimed that there are enzymes in raw meat that are beneficial to digestion that isn't a site that either sells enzyme supplements or else is a site that promotes raw and or "natural" eating. I can't even find one those that references a source for that "fact". Usually I can find a reference to a medical or nutrition journal at sites like those. Not in this case though. That "fact" is stated on so many sites though it's tedious to examine them all.

Originally Posted by Cocoa Cream

So then, when you want to make meals in bulk and freeze them, that could possibly affect the enzymes...if they are inactivated by freezing?

Actually she said the data is inconclusive (my added bold):

Originally Posted by sharky

the freezing data is 50/50 saying yes and no about whether or not they are merely slowed or are in fact inactivated

Now I'm questioning whether it matters. Are those enzymes good for anything, digestion or otherwise, anyway?

Originally Posted by Cocoa Cream

Still, the other benefits of feeding raw are numerous, so that probably wouldn't change much for me.

Me too. That's just one factor of many. I would like to know, if possible, what the truth is though.

 

[sharky]

Yes They do matter to a point..I will use a human example( dont just love those

).. The main reason so many humans have digestive issues is a LACK of enzymes in the meat and grains that used to be there ... I will put up a list of needed enzymes per the food they aid in digesting ... IE not many as my vet said DO NOT use any product with more than three acidopholis type strains since the cats guts naturally DO NOT have many( the only enzyme I would think would be severely lacking in a raw feed cat is cellulase ( for those feeding greens)

 

[dwmeowmix]

I've read his book, well the parts about cats anyway and found it to be excellent as far as reference material goes. He and his wife who co-writes his book with him are more into the enviroment as a whole...thing. Which is why (and he states this in his book) he uses grains in his receipes. He's worried about the environmental impact of slaughtering a high percentage of beef for pet food. I don't get it myself so I disregard his receipes but value quite a bit of the other information in his book. I went to a holistic vet for awhile and she said to me that she felt as well there was too high a percentage of grains in his receipes. I use the www.catnutrition.org receipe myself.

 

[cocoa cream]

Originally Posted by DWMeowMix

I've read his book, well the parts about cats anyway and found it to be excellent as far as reference material goes. He and his wife who co-writes his book with him are more into the enviroment as a whole...thing. Which is why (and he states this in his book) he uses grains in his receipes. He's worried about the environmental impact of slaughtering a high percentage of beef for pet food. I don't get it myself so I disregard his receipes but value quite a bit of the other information in his book. I went to a holistic vet for awhile and she said to me that she felt as well there was too high a percentage of grains in his receipes. I use the www.catnutrition.org receipe myself.

Interesting input about the environmental "twist" to his viewpoint. I probably wouldn't be able to agree with all that myself. Anyway...It sounds like alot of people use the info from catnutrition.org, huh? I just don't think I could go all raw meat like that right away. It would take alot of time for me to convince DH, for one thing. It sure would be easier if meat wasn't so expensive!

I have another question, though...I know you can't feed dry kibble and raw at the same time because of the different rates of digestion. But what about canned and raw? I hear some people saying they will feed some canned in a pinch or while transitioning to raw. Does this mean that canned and raw digest at closer to the same rate and are safe to feed together?

 

[sharky]

Different digestion rates and also the body uses different enzymes to breakdown the dry food vs the raw... this is one of the easiest arguments against raw feeding with grain( you have to cook any grain)

Raw in theory ( have read two studies that disagree but many more that agree) digests in 6-10 hours mouth to anus ... Canned is 8-12 hours ... dry 12-24 hours

 

[dwmeowmix]

Originally Posted by Cocoa Cream

Interesting input about the environmental "twist" to his viewpoint. I probably wouldn't be able to agree with all that myself. Anyway...It sounds like alot of people use the info from catnutrition.org, huh? I just don't think I could go all raw meat like that right away. It would take alot of time for me to convince DH, for one thing. It sure would be easier if meat wasn't so expensive!

I have another question, though...I know you can't feed dry kibble and raw at the same time because of the different rates of digestion. But what about canned and raw? I hear some people saying they will feed some canned in a pinch or while transitioning to raw. Does this mean that canned and raw digest at closer to the same rate and are safe to feed together?

Yeah, catnutrition.org is an extremely informative site and I find the receipe for raw food pretty well balanced as long as you follow it exactly. Meaning don't leave anything out or make substitutions if your not familiar with raw feeding.

As for the canned vs raw question, yes, PREMIUM canned food and raw are nutrient dense so they do digest at a similiar rate. As an argument for the pro-side of raw feeding to DH you could tell him that since raw food IS so nutrient dense and packed with calories that kitties are satisfied with much less so you can feed smaller servings. Because raw foods contain no fillers, your cat absorbs more of the food consumed as nutrients, so less is passed as waste. You may pay more per pound for feeding but you'll get more servings out of those pounds. Personally, I find that I spend less feeding raw than I spent on a very high quality, premium canned food. Watch for the meat sales and practice your saavy shopper skills!