Do you believe in De-clawing?

[white cat lover]

Originally Posted by just1cat

I can agree with that. I don't understand how its traumatic to a cat if the cat is sedated for a spay or neuter surgery and while the cat is asleep, the claws are removed?? Yes their paws will be sore but so is the incision area from the spay or neuter.

Now if the cat is not under anesthesia I can see where its traumatic for them. Now days, I've read where a laser is used and is a much better procedure.

Believe me, I am a huge cat lover, but I don't see where de clawing is any different from another surgery while under anesthesia, and if they are an indoor cat.

How many of you stop your cat from giving you that loving kneading because the claws are hurting you or can't play with your cat "hands on" because they scratch you?

When a cat is spayed or neutered, they don't have to try to walk afterwards.

You aren't just "declawing"....you are de-toeing.

Did you read the thread I linked to? I was in to the vets yesterday....8 kitties post-surgery were declawed. One was not(the one not declawed was standing in his cage, the rest just layed there). This one kitty was waking up....not smoothly...filpped, hit his just de-toed paw....and just screamed bloody murder.

I cannot imagine the pain those cats were in. Laying there, they hurt too much to get up.

Let me put it this way: PJ & Punky were neutered....running crazy at home the next day. The declawed kitties were still at the vet's office, laying in their cages in pain. They wouldn't go home for one more day. Then they wouldn't be able to run/jump/play for weeks....their feet hurt.

If you are really interested in another kitty & want one declawed, why not consider an adult? I've known MANY kitties to come into the humane society here...some under a year, some 2 years old...who've already been declawed.

 

[ldg]

To help you understand the issue of declaw, you do understand that because of the construction of the cat's foot it involves removing the end of the toes from the knuckle? It is like removing the ends of your toes so your nails won't grow.

Even for a person, it would be a little difficult and uncomfortable to walk around without the tips of your toes.

But imagine that you walk on only your toes. Cats walk on their toes, not the whole foot. Sometimes when they sit, they sit on the whole foot - but that first joint you see when you look at a cat's back leg is not a knee, it's an ankle!

So imagine you walk only on your toes, not your foot, and then you have the ends of your toes removed.

It causes you to walk un-naturally. So while it may appear that things have healed up and the cat is not in pain - it may not be in pain - now. The problem is that it is forced to walk un-naturally, and it often causes back pain and problems with joint pain and arthritis later in life.

While this doesn't happen to all cats, some cats express their displeasure with having their natural defenses removed by turning to biting. Others continue to pee outside of the box.

[size=+1]85% of all cats given to shelters by their owners for behavioral reasons have been declawed. That statistic says a lot about how many cats are unhappy being declawed - and show it. [/size]

So while declawing - from a guardian's perspective - may solve one problem (scratching furniture) - it often results in other, unexpected, unanticipated problems.

Also, declawing isn't always done right, and the claws can grow back into the cats' paw pads later in life. This is EXTREMELY painful for the cat, and then the surgery must be performed again. This time it takes longer to recover and the cat experiences SEVERE pain. Please see this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=155323

De-clawing is illegal in all of Europe and all of Scandinavia - in fact, it is illegal in 23 countries around the world because it is considered cruel and un-necessary.

You are entitled to your opinion. But as you point out, it is not an informed one.

As I pointed out in my earlier post in this thread - even the American Veterinary Medical Association does NOT support declawing unless it is medically necessary - and theoretically the vets that are members of the AVMA should then not support declawing unless medically necessary.

If the association of the people who perform declaws do not support declawing - why would anyone else?

Please take the time to learn more about through these links:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html/declaw_detoe.html

Thank you for loving your cats enough to spend some time learning about what declawing might do to them.

Laurie

 

[violet]

Originally Posted by cloud_shade

I had to vote "if it is needed." While I don't believe in declawing for owner convenience, there are times when it is medically necessary to remove one or more claws. I'm on a group that recently had a cat with a deformed claw. Declawing that toe was the best possible medical decision for the cat's well-being. The alternative was a constant risk of infection due to the claw growing into the pad because of the deformity.

I can completely understand this. The poor cat had a deformed claw and removing that claw was medically necessary.
Under "normal" circumstances I'm very much against declawing, I simply couldn't ever do that to a cat and I wish nobody else would either. I wish it weren't even an option for anyone. So I voted no.

 

[sharky]

slightly off topic .. but this is for those in countrys it is banned.... CAN it be done for medically nessesary reasons??

 

[jaffacake]

I voted No! Thank God it`s illegal where I live

 

[rang_27]

Originally Posted by babyharley

When we adopted Bayley from the Humane Society, he came home with a really bad infection in his paws, causing them to fall out

I took him to the vet & they did have to remove 2 of them because the infection was so bad - but it was medically necessary.

Anything past that - no way!

I tend to think if taking a claw or two medical procedures a necessary amputation. A diabetic person may have a toe amputated because it is better for their health. In my mind declawing and a ncessary amputation are two differnt things. A declawing is an unnecessary cruel action, while an amputation is performed to save or inprove the animals life.

 

[littleraven7726]

Originally Posted by saya

there are always exceptions to the rules but generally speaking...

no way.

If necessary, I believe in it. I'd rather see the cat declawed than tossed on the street. But there are usually a LOT of things to try before you end up at that point.

However, while working at a shelter a kitten who was adopted got declawed/spayed and new adopters opted to pick her up from the shelter. Right then I decided I could never do that to my own cat. Never. She left, a bouncy baby kitty. Frisking about and climbing her cage door. She came back, sore, not moving much, a completely different cat.

I often wonder if she healed ok, or was a return.

I urge people who feel they need declawed cats to adopt adults already done who are in shelters/rescues. My cats were all declawed by previous owners, but it's a sheer accident that I ended up with declawed cats. I was a student when I got Raven and Nabu, and knew I couldn't afford a neuter. So I looked for already fixed cats. Stimpy was a similar story, but he picked me. So that they are declawed, was a previous owner's preference. I sure didn't care.

We've lived in 2 places that required declawed cats, they were both big management companies out of state (one in Iowa, one in California). The area I live in now, landlords barely even care if animals are vaccinated.

I have a feeling my cats were declawed for furniture reasons, given that landlords here don't care about that. I think a couple places here require it, but again they are big management companies. And on a far end of town so I wouldn't want to live there anyway.

 

[siggav]

Voted no, probably surprises no one.

Here's my essay on declawing. It was a PM originally, I hope the recipient doesn't mind me reposting a slightly edited version here. Hey! if you read this

thanks for your decision and the intact toes of your cats!

Basically one of the worst problems that can happen with declawing is that any amputation and yes declawing is an amputation (multiple ones) is a very painful prodecure. Since cats use litterboxes it can happen that they associate the pain in their feet with the litterbox and refuse to use it. Also scratching in the litter with declawed feet is more uncomfortable than scratching with the claws. Try scratching in gravel with the knucles of your hands vs. normally with your finger tips and nails, it makes a big difference.

It happens not nearly all the time but it can and does happen and a cat that pees on beds and floors and sofas is a lot worse for any house than a cat with full claws. The cats that have developed that side effect are some of the ones that end up living out their lives in a shelter because no one wants to adopt a cat that pees and poos everywhere.

Then there's the danger of arthritis when they get old since a declawed cat spends their entire life walking in a slightly unnatural way. Their toes have been surgically altered so their balance and gait changes and this puts extra strain on their bones and ligaments which can start showing more when they get older. In addition to that some end up with a botched prodecure and the claw bed isn't removed completely and the claw grows back in inside the paw. So they'll need yet another operation.

Some have personality changes and regress a bit age wise from the trauma and become more clingy and less independent while others become aloof and stop playing as much.

My hunch is that those cats are dealing with phantom pain from the nerves that aren't there anymore.

Then some either usually fearful submissive ones or dominant alpha cats will start biting when they realise their claws aren't there. I.e their first line of defense is gone so they go straight for the bite. Others become more insecure so they overcompensate and get aggressive quickly, i.e with the "an attack is the best defence" way of thinking.

Trimming the claws is really helpful. That makes a *huge* difference when it comes to being scratched. It changes Nikita's claws from razors to well, very blunted razors. So she can run over my foot while playing and I just get a white mark in the skin that fades quickly and the skin isn't broken.

Anyway I know the declaw surgery doesn't always go wrong. Sometimes it leaves the cats just fine but it doesn't always and I wouldn't want to take the risk. Especially since really it's easy to control most of the issues anyway. Scratching posts, trimming the nails and then soft paws if trimming them isn't enough.

Now I'm raised in a country in Europe where declawing just isn't done and now living in UK where it's illegal so I confess I was completely horrified when I heard about it being done. From my point of view the claws of a cat is a part of their innnate "cat-ness" i.e like whiskers and ears and their instinct to hunt and the purr etc. So I really can't understand someone welcoming a cat into their home and then not wanting them to be a cat.

Spaying is a bit different because going in and out of heat is very hard on a female cats system (so is having kittens all the time) They can loose weight, are very unhappy and they can get a serious illness as well called Pyometra. Also spaying and neutering reduces the risk of several cancers.

It's one of the reasons responsible breeders only get a few litters out of a female cat and then spay her and place as a pet (usually when she's around 2-3 years old)

If you feel like you really want a declawed cat please adopt one already declawed from a shelter.

 

[booktigger]

The last article I read said that it wasn't actually illegal in the UK, it is just against RCVS and vets who do it for non medical reasons can be disqualified (or something to that effect), did this change with the new law last year?
Sharky, as far as I know, they can if it is for medical reasons, but our equivalent of the AVMA (I hate their stance on it, no wonder it is still done so much in the US) doesn't have declawing in their search.

 

[misskiwi67]

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Misskiwi - not sure where you are from, but there are MANY cats that are declawed that are turned into the shelter - not cause they don't match furniture, but because the cat is peeing in other places, is biting, etc. - things that were caused by declawing.

IMO if you are so against declawing, then why do you still do it? For the money? Cause it certainly does not benefit the cat in any way!

I perform declaws because veterinary medicine is first and foremost a service industry. I will set a limit on the age of cats I declaw, but will not refuse to declaw kittens. None of my cats are declawed because I'm a pro-active and educated owner, and all of my pets arrived in my home already spayed and neutered. Not everyone has this luxury, and not everyone is as wonderful an owner as the majority of persons on this website. If I could have a clinic made up solely with educated and compliant clients such as those found here, I would be in heaven.

Inappropriate urination and biting secondary to declaw are myths, and unsupported by peer reviewed research. The only reason NOT to declaw (at a proper age with proper skill and tools) is because it is an elective procedure, just like cropping and docking, which is banned in other countries for moral reasons, not due to complications.

 

[bella713]

I do not believe in declawing but I do have a declawed cat...Mario, we adopted him in September and he's 9 he was declawed long before we got him. He is declawed in the front and back

He doesn't seem to have any issues such as avoiding the litter box etc., that doesn't mean that isn't the case in some kitties. I do think he walks different than my other cats

 

[siggav]

Declawing is definately illegal in Scotland now, I'm on a mailing list with Nikita's vet and in last April they posted the news that declawing was now properly a criminal offence here.

The law is called the Prohibited Procedures Act and to quote:

Legislation recently came into place in Scotland which helps to prevent any unnecessary procedures on animals. The area which received most press attention regarded the banning of tail docking in pups but less well known was that the act also considered procedures on all domesticated species, cats included.

A prohibited procedure is defined as a procedure which involves the interference with the sensitive tissues or bone structure of an animal unless it is carried out for the purpose of the medical treatment of an animal. In order for us to be able to continue certain procedures such as neutering, the Act introduced exemptions. The exemptions for cats are ear tipping (to identify feral cats), microchipping, tattooing, vasectomy, castration and spaying.

Declawing, where the tips of the toes are amputated to remove the nails, has been an unethical procedure in the UK in recent years but this new legislation now makes it an offence in Scotland.

 

[urbantigers]

Originally Posted by booktigger

The last article I read said that it wasn't actually illegal in the UK, it is just against RCVS and vets who do it for non medical reasons can be disqualified (or something to that effect), did this change with the new law last year?

Yes, I think it did. I don't recall the exact wording in the 2006 Animal Welfare Act, and I dont think declawing specifically was mentioned, but it does say something about mutilation that is not for medical benefit being outlawed so I think declawing would be covered there. It does specify that tail docking on dogs is not included, but it doesn't mention declawing so I would assume that is included.

edited to add - the definition of mutilation (as an offence) is

a procedure which involves interference with the sensitive tissues or bone structure of the animal, otherwise than for the purpose of its medical treatment

Tail docking in dogs is mentioned as an exclusion but nothing else is, so I think that would cover declawing.

 

[bonnie1965]

Check out this link:
http://cats.about.com/od/felineanato...n/CatClaws.htm
It is a slideshow of the parts that make up a cat. Page 9 is about the claws which relates to page 8, the stretch (muscles).

Cats need claws. They came with them, they make the entire system work correctly. I find it amazing that so very many vets - who should be the most knowledgeable about this- can justify chopping off a very essential part of an animal. For no good reason, usually.

All in all, I just simply do not "get it".

Most of the world manages with cats having their claws. It really breaks my heart every time I see some North American have to explain to someone from another continent what exactly de-clawing is. Some people think we mean clipping nails. They are so shocked when told this is a common North American practice. There are actual LAWS in many countries forbidding this mutilation. It is high time we have that law as well!

I grew up with clawed cats - being poor, well we just didn't have extra money for things like that. Thank goodness. I am old and still here. No one I have ever known has died or suffered extreme duress from having a cat with claws. Amazing.

Edit: sorry, I did not read all the pages of posts before posting this response. You all are wayyyy ahead of me!

 

[bonnie1965]

For those who wanted to know:

Her is the German Animal Welfare Act:
http://www.animallaw.info/nonus/stat...tdeawa1998.htm

From Australia:
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...malCaPrA01.pdf
(pg 29)

Removal of cat’s claw
(1) A person, other than a veterinary surgeon, must not remove a cat’s
claw.
Maximum penalty—300 penalty units or 1 year’s imprisonment.
(2) A veterinary surgeon must not remove a cat’s claw unless the
surgeon reasonably considers the removal is in the interests of the cat’s
welfare.
Maximum penalty—300 penalty units or 1 year’s imprisonment.

There are more. Imagine all the years our vets would be in prison? It isn't just up to the vets. It is also a supply and demand thing. We gotta educate people so they understand what this is. So they get mad when they hear "Would you like a declaw with that?" as though the toes are nothing more than a side of fries.

 

[smokiethecat]

In my area it is hard to find a declawed cat for adoption. Almost all have
claws at the rescue leagues. I have never met a cat/heard of a cat
that has gotten declawed and then had problems with walking/litter box
problems/biting. I have a new kitten and I called 7 vets(to check spay prices) and all asked if I wanted her declawed at the same time I had her spayed. I DON'T plan
to get her declawed,but neither do I knock someone who has. I don't think
it should just be routine,but if you've tried and tried and they won't stop
tearing up the furniture,I'd rather see a cat declawed that 'put out" in any
way. Of course there are horror stories,but I truly do believe that the vast
majority of cats(if done as kittens)DON"T go on to have troubles. I have only had one cat in my life declawed. He came home and was able to walk.You
could tell his feet were sore and it lasted about two weeks..had to use a different litter for a week. After that, he was in no way,shape or form different than he was before the surgery. He runs,jumps, snags flies, catches
mice,and doesn't walk any different from any other cat. He still "scratches" at
his posts and seems to be a very happy cat. I think you(anyone) can make anything
sound worse than it really is. You can't justify an occasional horror story/botched surgery and attach it to all surgeries. Spaying and neutering....well, I have done it for all my cats,but hey,they were born with
testicles/uterus' too,but we don't object to taking those out. I dont' think
cats are miserable being intact..its a normal natural part of a cat...hey,maybe all us humans would be better off without our "parts' too(I've known some guys that would...) I understand the overpopulation thing, and I am totally FOR spaying/neutering.
My male cats usually aren't fazed by getting neutered(and who wants a spraying male??),but my females have been quite uncomfortable and in pain
from it. If a human gets her uterus removed..its considered major surgery.they might not get uterus cancer,but how many cats truelly ever
get that anyway? We can't start lopping off body parts because they MIGHT
get cancer.
So,even though I am FOR neutering/spaying and AGAINST declawing I am
not going to try to convince someone else not to. I realize that its their toes,
but all the declawed cats I've known(a lot) they all are normal cats afterwards.

 

[novemberflowers]

No. My cats use their claws all the time...to grab onto toys when they play, to scratch the scratching post stretch their whole bodies out when they wake up from a nap (looking sooooo happy and relaxed)....I wouldn't want to take away these simple pleasures, nor would I want to create behavioral problems or cause any pain that didn't need to occur or to require them to find a new way to walk....they are just supposed to have claws...it's awful that it became so socially accepted here in the US.....my cats when I was growing up were declawed and I just thought all cats were supposed to get declawed. (back then, we just hadn't learned about the negative side) And there are still so many people who just think it's normal....when I was first telling people about my new kittens several people asked when they would be old enough to be declawed

(uhhhh...never...)

eta: i think this is a neat idea: http://www.declaw.com/list.asp (someone is compiling a listing of vets who will not declaw in the US and Canada)

 

[glitch]

Yes, But IMO, and from someone whos been there, Getting them declawed is way more painful than neutering/spaying! The only two cats I ever had declawed (BooBoo & Tissy) went through ALOT of pain! I mean, I understand not thinking that its too big of a deal because humans have stuff like that done all the time but think about it, we are in the hospital with pain medication being taken care of very well. The cat who get declawed get out on the same day, pain meds is OPTIONAL and most people vote against them! There is no Dr there for the next month to make sure everything is healing okay, there is no one there to EVER check to make sure it was done properly and there are no infections! Human care is a little bit more advanced, therefore its really hard to compare the two things together!

My grandma had her toe removed a couple years ago. So theres no toe there, but guess what, it still hurts her all the time!

 

[judi]

Originally Posted by just1cat

Just curious where people stand on this issue.

How would you like your nails removed??

 

[kai bengals]

Originally Posted by Misskiwi67

I perform declaws because veterinary medicine is first and foremost a service industry. I will set a limit on the age of cats I declaw, but will not refuse to declaw kittens. None of my cats are declawed because I'm a pro-active and educated owner, and all of my pets arrived in my home already spayed and neutered. Not everyone has this luxury, and not everyone is as wonderful an owner as the majority of persons on this website. If I could have a clinic made up solely with educated and compliant clients such as those found here, I would be in heaven.

Inappropriate urination and biting secondary to declaw are myths, and unsupported by peer reviewed research. The only reason NOT to declaw (at a proper age with proper skill and tools) is because it is an elective procedure, just like cropping and docking, which is banned in other countries for moral reasons, not due to complications.

Sorry, but this is a total cop-out. You claim to be a pro-active and educated owner and so will not have your own cats declawed, but you will perform the surgery on your clients cats. Boo on you.
It should be your obligation to educate your clients and help them to be pro-active as well. You should refuse to declaw their cats, regardless of age and if you lose a customer in the process, you will gain 2 more for each one you lose when word gets out that you're running a humane and caring practice.

By the way, you can have a clinic made up solely of educated clients, you need only take the time to educate them. That's part of your responsibilty and part of what you get paid for.