Do you believe in De-clawing?

[ldg]

I clicked "no" in this poll, because the "if its needed" is simply too vague. If you have a cat and develop a bleeding disorder that medication can't help, then MAYBE kitty needs to be declawed. If the cat is having medical problems with its claws or its paws because of its claws, then MAYBE kitty needs to be declawed.

Otherwise it is mutilation plain and simple.

If you had an autistic child who constantly scratched at the walls and furniture, would you remove that child's fingertips?

The problem with declawing is the name itself. It needs to be called de-toeing, because the construction of cats' claws are such that to remove the claws, the toes must be removed at the first knuckle.

Because the U.S. isn't the kind of country that would make de-toeing illegal, the very least we can lobby for is for consumer education being REQUIRED before such surgery is performed.

It infuriates me to no end that this is the official position of the American Veterinary Medical Association:

http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/an.../declawing.asp

Declawing of domestic cats should be considered only after attempts have been made to prevent the cat from using its claws destructively or when its clawing presents a zoonotic risk for its owner(s).

The AVMA believes it is the obligation of veterinarians to provide cat owners with complete education with regard to feline onychectomy. The following points are the foundation for full understanding and disclosure regarding declawing:

* Scratching is a normal feline behavior, is a means for cats to mark their territory both visually and with scent, and is used for claw conditioning ("husk" removal) and stretching activity.
* Owners must provide suitable implements for normal scratching behavior. Examples are scratching posts, cardboard boxes, lumber or logs, and carpet or fabric remnants affixed to stationary objects. Implements should be tall or long enough to allow full stretching, and be firmly anchored to provide necessary resistance to scratching. Cats should be positively reinforced in the use of these implements.
* Appropriate claw care (consisting of trimming the claws every 1 to 2 weeks) should be provided to prevent injury or damage to household items.
* Surgical declawing is not a medically necessary procedure for the cat in most cases. While rare in occurrence, there are inherent risks and complications with any surgical procedure including, but not limited to, anesthetic complications, hemorrhage, infection, and pain. If onychectomy is performed, appropriate use of safe and effective anesthetic agents and the use of safe peri-operative analgesics for an appropriate length of time are imperative. The surgical alternative of tendonectomy is not recommended.

....and yet so many vets continue to just ask people "do you want a declaw with that spay?"

THIS is what should be illegal at a minimum.

Laurie

 

[rang_27]

Originally Posted by Areias

Not at all! I was a vet assistant for a few months and I despised declawing. The vets wanted me to push it so it would make more money for the clinic-but cleaning up those little kitty fingers-ugh. They used the dog nail clippers...the guillotine kind...and just go *snap* *snap* *snap* on the bone, disgusting.

This is part of why I could never be a vet assistant. It sounds brutal just thinking of it. I think I'd be sick if I actually heard the sound. My last cat had been 4 paw declawed because we got her when I was 12 and I had no say. Now I've got 4 with all their claws and could never do that to a cat. I would adopt one that had been declawed only if it came with other problems. For the most part I'd rather let people that insist on a declawed cat adopt one that has already been done. I'll take my kitties with all their claws. I figure it's only fair. People are big enough to hurt them, they should have some way to defend themself. My babies are so good about using the scratching posts I'm always so proud of them. Isaac is the only one who sometimes likes to paw at the kitchen chairs & the bed posts. I'll try to stop him, but could never declaw him. Frankly I love my kitties more than any thing I own.

 

[errantrogue]

Only if medically necessary.

 

[just1cat]

I've basically have had only one cat in my life (recently just passed away) and she was de-clawed in the front only. We did have her de-clawed when she was a kitten and it was not an issue. She walked around fine afterwards, and the only thing we had to do was place newspaper in her litter box for a few days.

To be honest I don't know exactly what the surgery entails, but I'm hearing more and more how its very inhumane to de claw them. I don't agree to de-claw an outdoor cat because they need them for defense.

A cat is going to be in discomfort after any surgery IMO. Surgery entails the body being cut open, thus resulting in soreness until healed. I would assume the same goes for claws being removed. I guess every cat is going to handle it differently.

I guess I'm not educated in the issue enough, but flame me if you wish. I just don't see how different it is from any other surgery. Everything heals and the discomfort goes away.

 

[areias]

Originally Posted by just1cat

I've basically have had only one cat in my life (recently just passed away) and she was de-clawed in the front only. We did have her de-clawed when she was a kitten and it was not an issue. She walked around fine afterwards, and the only thing we had to do was place newspaper in her litter box for a few days.

To be honest I don't know exactly what the surgery entails, but I'm hearing more and more how its very inhumane to de claw them. I don't agree to de-claw an outdoor cat because they need them for defense.

A cat is going to be in discomfort after any surgery IMO. Surgery entails the body being cut open, thus resulting in soreness until healed. I would assume the same goes for claws being removed. I guess every cat is going to handle it differently.

I guess I'm not educated in the issue enough, but flame me if you wish. I just don't see how different it is from any other surgery. Everything heals and the discomfort goes away.

These are pictures of a declaw:
http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/

They are graphic, so viewer descretion is advised!

 

[babyharley]

Originally Posted by twstychik

Generally I say NO unless there is a MEDICAL need for it.

When we adopted Bayley from the Humane Society, he came home with a really bad infection in his paws, causing them to fall out

I took him to the vet & they did have to remove 2 of them because the infection was so bad - but it was medically necessary.

Anything past that - no way!

 

[misskiwi67]

I perform declaw surgeries. They are not cruel at all when performed by a skilled surgeon using appropriate tools (sharp scalpel blade or laser) on an animal of the appropriate age.

Why do vets ask "do you want a declaw with that spay?" Because better done during the spay than at 3 years of age when they get new furniture!!!!

People are idiots. Client education is important, but I've seen a cat returned to the shelter because it didn't MATCH the new couch, let alone was destroying it (and she wanted to adopt a new cat of a different color!) and I would rather declaw a kitten than see it end up in a shelter, or worse yet, back in my office later in life.

I absolutely HATE declawing older animals, but will do so if required or if it will save a cat its home. I've seen insurance companies and apartment complexes that require a declaw, and in my home town, a FOUR PAW declaw is required for all cats living in daycare homes.

 

[goldenkitty45]

No, even tho my first cat was declawed (parents insisted) I do not believe cats should be declawed. I wish the US would just ban declawing like overseas does now.

Its not necessary, its inhumane, cruel and there are many other solutions to the clawing/nails problems that some people have.

I really think that most people that declaw are not aware of what really happens physically and emotionally to the cat. Maybe (like showing an ultrasound to a pregnant woman who is thinking abortion), those considering declawing should watch the real truth of a cat being done - then decide if its right or wrong.


Misskiwi - not sure where you are from, but there are MANY cats that are declawed that are turned into the shelter - not cause they don't match furniture, but because the cat is peeing in other places, is biting, etc. - things that were caused by declawing.

IMO if you are so against declawing, then why do you still do it? For the money? Cause it certainly does not benefit the cat in any way!

 

[urbantigers]

I don't find declawing acceptable under any circumstances. I'm excluding removing claws for medical reasons as I don't consider that to be what most people mean when they refer to 'declawing' (declawing for medical reasons is just like any other kind of amputation for medical reasons - if it has to be done for the cat's benefit then that's fair enough).

Originally Posted by just1cat

I just don't see how different it is from any other surgery. Everything heals and the discomfort goes away.

It's different from other surgery because it's not carried out for the benefit of the cat. It's unnecesarry surgery carried out for the owner's benefit.

I don't think there are any reasons that make declawing for non medical reasons ok. Like someone said earlier, those of us who live in countries where it is illegal manage ok. Many care homes for elderly people have a resident or visiting cat and they don't feel the need to declaw the cat. Similarly, there are people over here who may have a compromised immune system or a bleeding disorder, but if they have cats they manage without declawing them. Neither do we have a nation of children clawed to death by pet cats! If it's not an option, then you find other ways of dealing with claws if they're a problem.

 

[areias]

Originally Posted by twstychik

How is docking and cropping OK but declawing isn't? I mean, docking can't even be justified by the destruction excuse that so many use for declawing?!

Docking is done when a puppy is 2-3 days old. I've done it under instruction of the vet I worked for. They don't even cry out, they have no idea what is going on. As the owner of a pointer with a full tail-I wish she had been docked as a pup, because I've considered numerous times amputating it due to breaks and the tip of the tail sloughing off, causing a lot of bleeding.

Cropping I'm not so much "for" as much as I don't mind it-yes, it is mostly just cosmetic. It needs to be done by someone knowledgable and maintained by someone knowledgable to prevent infection and all that.

 

[just1cat]

Originally Posted by urbantigers

It's different from other surgery because it's not carried out for the benefit of the cat. It's unnecesarry surgery carried out for the owner's benefit.

I can agree with that. I don't understand how its traumatic to a cat if the cat is sedated for a spay or neuter surgery and while the cat is asleep, the claws are removed?? Yes their paws will be sore but so is the incision area from the spay or neuter.

Now if the cat is not under anesthesia I can see where its traumatic for them. Now days, I've read where a laser is used and is a much better procedure.

Believe me, I am a huge cat lover, but I don't see where de clawing is any different from another surgery while under anesthesia, and if they are an indoor cat.

How many of you stop your cat from giving you that loving kneading because the claws are hurting you or can't play with your cat "hands on" because they scratch you?

 

[sophiec]

Originally Posted by just1cat

I guess I'm not educated in the issue enough, but flame me if you wish. I just don't see how different it is from any other surgery. Everything heals and the discomfort goes away.

This post is in no way intended to be a flame, I'm just trying to get a point across.

Declawing is unnecessary. The cat was born with those claws for a reason. If, for example, a person uses their tongue to lash out and say hurtful things to someone, should that person's tongue be surgically removed? No, it shouldn't...because that's what a person does, they speak. Just the same, a cat scratches and uses their claws....it is what they do. If a person doesn't like the fact that a cat does that, then maybe they shouldn't own a cat....they should get a goldfish.

Originally Posted by just1cat

I can agree with that. I don't understand how its traumatic to a cat if the cat is sedated for a spay or neuter surgery and while the cat is asleep, the claws are removed?? Yes their paws will be sore but so is the incision area from the spay or neuter.

How many of you stop your cat from giving you that loving kneading because the claws are hurting you or can't play with your cat "hands on" because they scratch you?

A spay or neuter is ususally something the owner will do to prevent the amount of unwanted pets we have in our country today. It also helps to prevent certain illnesses and maintain a healthier lifestyle for our pets.

When my cats are "makin' biscuits" and I find it uncomfortable, I usually move their little claws to an area where the claws don't make it through my clothing. As for my hands....they always have scratches on them.

With that said.....if a declaw were medically necessary for the wellbeing of the cat, then I would probably do it then.

 

[twstychik]

Originally Posted by just1cat

Believe me, I am a huge cat lover, but I don't see where de clawing is any different from another surgery while under anesthesia, and if they are an indoor cat.

How many of you stop your cat from giving you that loving kneading because the claws are hurting you or can't play with your cat "hands on" because they scratch you?

The difference is that a speuter is beneficial to both cat and owner but in 99% of declaw cases it is NOT to the cat's benefit. If you don't know, declawing can lead to (most commonly) biting and litter box avoidance and later in life arthritis.

I have only had to stop Wickett from kneading me when he was young and still learning how to use his claws. Now that he's older he knows when to use them and when not to. He sometimes gets carried away when playing with daddy (since daddy can be rough) but he NEVER scratches me when playing. As an aside, it's probably not a good idea to use your hands as a cat toy anyway because you are teaching them it's OK to bite and scratch hands. I prefer to use hand for love and toys for playing.

 

[urbantigers]

Originally Posted by just1cat

I can agree with that. I don't understand how its traumatic to a cat if the cat is sedated for a spay or neuter surgery and while the cat is asleep, the claws are removed?? Yes their paws will be sore but so is the incision area from the spay or neuter.

Now if the cat is not under anesthesia I can see where its traumatic for them. Now days, I've read where a laser is used and is a much better procedure.

But it isn't just the trauma of the actual surgery that makes declawing wrong (although even if a cat us under anaesthesia for something else, they will still have the potential for post op discomfort in their paws if they are declawed at the same time). It's also the fact that a cat is having a body part removed along with the ability to indulge in an essential behaviour (scratching) solely for the benefit of the owner. That is, simply, unethical and disrespectful to me.

There are lots of reasons why people are opposed to declawing - the pain of the actual surgery, possible litter box avoidance afterwards etc. - but the bottom line for me is that it's just wrong to take away a cat's claws just because an owner wants to. If there is no benefit to the cat, it should not be done.

 

[EnzoLeya]

Many people declaw because of convience and that is truely sad.

I will admit that before I came to this site I believed in declawing because that's the way I was raised. I thought people with indoor cats who were not declawed were weird.

Now I have a place of my own and three cats. All of which have their claws and I have never had a problems with them scratching things up.

 

[iluvdevons]

Originally Posted by cloud_shade

I had to vote "if it is needed." While I don't believe in declawing for owner convenience, there are times when it is medically necessary to remove one or more claws. I'm on a group that recently had a cat with a deformed claw. Declawing that toe was the best possible medical decision for the cat's well-being. The alternative was a constant risk of infection due to the claw growing into the pad because of the deformity.

I do not believe in declawing other than in cases where injury, deformities, or chronic diseases affect the quality of life of a cat.

 

[just1cat]

Originally Posted by SophieC

This post is in no way intended to be a flame, I'm just trying to get a point across.

I don't take it as a flame. I'm glad this is thread is remaining civilized

My spouse and I are looking into having another cat and the de claw issue is on my mind. We have not decided yet on a rescue or a kitten someone may have.

In case we get a rescue and they are not declawed, I'm trying to educate myself on the issue. I really appreciate everyones thoughts and knowledge on the issue.

 

[twstychik]

Originally Posted by just1cat

I don't take it as a flame. I'm glad this is thread is remaining civilized

My spouse and I are looking into having another cat and the de claw issue is on my mind. We have not decided yet on a rescue or a kitten someone may have.

In case we get a rescue and they are not declawed, I'm trying to educate myself on the issue. I really appreciate everyones thoughts and knowledge on the issue.

If you want a de-clawed cat please... pretty please go rescue a cat that has already been de-clawed. Not only will you be sparing the life of a cat that otherwise might not get adopted (people want kittens not cats) you might also be sparing the paws of a kitten.

 

[katiemae1277]

ok, how bout this example of why declawing is wrong: think of how difficult it would be to walk around if the tips of all your toes were cut off...yes, it's just the tips, but imagine how that would effect the gait of your walk, and then how that might effect your back, etc, etc. Seems to me there would be a high likelihood of chronic pain there. Then consider cutting off the tips of your fingers and how you would function. True, cats don't use their paws for the same things we humans use our fingers for, but they do hold on to things, jump up places and grab on, plus many more examples. this is, in essence what a cat goes thru long term.

and as for the argument of declawing so a cat won't scratch the baby,

BTW, I grew up with clawed cats and I have all my limbs and no lasting scars, a cat's bite is much more prone to infection than a scratch. If a child grabs a cat's tail, which even under the most close supervision can happen, and the cat lashes out with his paws to "scratch" and the child does not release the tail, what do you think is the next line of defense? you guessed it, teeth

 

[sandtigress]

For me, the reason why de-clawing is not like most other surgeries is the fact that declawing can have so many negative effects further into the cat's life. Spaying/neutering is invasive, sure, but the only effects afterwards are the inability to have offspring and lower hormone levels.

Declawing, on the other hand, removes the first part of each toe. If you look at your own fingers, you'll notice that your nail beds are located on the end joint of each of your fingers. In order to make it so that your nails were no longer there, those joints would have to be physically removed.

Imagine then, that instead of your fingers, we're talking about your toes. Cats have to walk on the paws where the joints are removed. This has repercussions not just on their claws, but on the way that they walk and move for the rest of their lives. Declawing can lead to arthritis later in life due to those changes. In addition, as many have said, potty troubles can emerge as the cat finds it painful to use litterboxes on those paws. Imagine trying to walk on thousands of little particles of sand with those incisions!

Anyhow, I hope it at least somewhat illustrates why most of us feel that declawing is different than an ordinary surgery. If a surgery has to be done that's going to adversely affect an animal for the rest of its life, then the benefits should somehow outweigh the negatives, but in non-medical cases of declawing, there are no benefits to the animal, only to the human.