Do cats remember - Bad vets trip

[nacho]

Well today was a nightmare day!!

Little Nook had to go to the vets for his second booster shot.  I had been putting it off because we had been having so many issues with him being totally petrified since we brought him home. We have been making slow progress and he was finally starting to interact with us, playing and taking treats from our hands.

I felt quite confident that I would not have much trouble getting him in the cat box.....boy was I wrong!

After trying to catch him he headed back into his safe room where I finally manged to get him in the box after being scratched all over my arms and hands and being bitten. It was a totally horrific experience for him and for me.

When I arrived at the vets.....hands covered in blood....it looked as if I'd murdered something.

The vet took one look and said to leave him there so he could calm down as he looked a bit stresses out, plus I was still shaking from the experience. The lovely vet even checked me over because my hands were in a bit of a state.

He was also due to be desexed in 2 weeks time and the thought of getting him into the box again totally horrified me.

The vets called me and suggested they do the desexing today. They could do the booster at the same time and the little chap would not need to go back for another year.  By that time we would hopefully of settled down.

Well has only just woken up from his horrible day and as yet has not come out of his safe room.

My worry is will I go back to day 1 and all my hard work will of been for nothing...........will he forgive me?

Do cats remember these things?

I really had no choice he had to get the booster.

Will the desexing help calm him down?

Heidi

 

[uniqms95]

Well you can try starting all over again by leaving the box out so the cat gets used to it and putting treats inside or food and see if she would go in there. I know my cat was fine with the box at first and used to get in there as soon as I opened the door but for some reason she now fights with me too to get inside. She'll resist with all her power. I'm trying reintroducing the box currently so maybe you could try that too

 

[mani]

The desexing will certainly help with 'male' things but may not alter his nervousness.. but I could be proved wrong.

Keep him in his 'safe' place till he's ready to come out.   I know you don't like the crating thing but it really does make cats feel secure, and he needs that.

I think it's wonderful that you had him neutered as now that is out of the way and he won't need to go to the vet for some time.. you can cross that bridge when you come to it.  Right now it's a case of being with him and letting him know all is OK.  Do you sit in the room and read to him?  Play soothing music?  I know one of our advisors says harp music is very calming for cats.

I'm really pleased to hear that you have made progress with Nook... honestly, patience is a wonderful thing.  And being as calm as you can yourself.. cats pick up on our emotions and they will respond accordingly.

 

[doreet]

HI,my Cat Was a rescue Cat, and the owner told me, she didn't like to be picked up or held, because of bad experiences with the vet. So she never got over it. So I can't pick her up or hold her, she hates it. Yeah, some of them never forget!

 

[mani]

 
HI,my Cat Was a rescue Cat, and the owner told me, she didn't like to be picked up or held, because of bad experiences with the vet. So she never got over it. So I can't pick her up or hold her, she hates it. Yeah, some of them never forget!

Doreet, this is the first time you've mentioned this.. I know you took her from an elderly lady who could no longer keep her and it's wonderful you could give her a good home.  But if that is what the previous owner told you (about the vet's visit being the reason for her behaviour) I don't think you can really take it as fact - just hearsay.  Her behaviour, from what I've read about her, sounds more like early socialisation issues. 

And Nook did not have a bad experience with vets - just a normal visit to a good vet, even though Nook didn't like it much - so I'm sure it won't be at all the same.

 

 

[nacho]

Well it's been almost 2 weeks since our vets visit and things have not really improved.
Little Nook has been spending most of that time hiding out around the house.
We had friends over on Saturday and he spent the whole 6 hours with his head in a box.....really no way to spend your life it was so sad.
Then yesterday i was feeding the guinea pigs and he came to see us and even sat for a while watching. Then he went to explore the room. I don't know how it happened as i was sat on the otherside of the room but he managed to get tangled up in the sewing machine lead. Boy did he freak out! I could not even get there quick enough, there was spitting and banging andhe somehow got free. He went and hid for 2 hours then. Even food does not bring him out.
I have decided to take drastic measures so tomorrow i pick up a crate from a friend.
Can anyone help guide me through the process?
I'm aware i need to set it up in the family room with bed, food water and litter tray.
Might need to get some heavy gloves for tge handling part after last time.
I really hope this helps.
The feliway diffuser i bought did nothing at all.

 

[mani]

Hi @Nacho

I'm so sorry to hear that things haven't improved.  Whilst I've advocated the crate idea, I'm not an expert at all... I'll see if I can find someone who can be more helpful.

 

[catwoman707]

Okay so you are going to be starting from scratch unfortunately.

You don't sound happy to be owning a semi-feral teenager, and this is what you've got.

I'm sure the breeder you got him from was not interested in producing social cats to sell, which is why he is the way he is.

I feel for all of her past, present and future litters as well as the adults she has breeding

The first thing you want to do is take his carrier outside and give it a good spraydown with household cleaner such as 409 or any other, especially the inside.

Rinse well and allow it to dry.

This removes all scents he has left behind, fear and adrenaline scents linger on for a long time and you want the memory to fade.

You will want to crate him, elevate it, as this is much more comforting to a cat. Have him in a calm, quiet room, where the least amt of traffic and noise are, yet not isolated either. He needs to see you as much as possible.

You will want to talk in a soft, sweet and non threatening voice any time you are around him.

The crate needs a litterbox, and water dish opposite the box, and a soft, comfy bed.

You are not going to leave food inside, not at all. By the time he is ready to be allowed to eat on his own, he will be out of the crate and in that same room only.

All food will come from you.

He will very quickly associate nothing but good from you.

Wait until he is hungry enough to start the feeding process.

You will offer him food in your hand, and he must eat it from your hand and allow you to pet him at the same time with your other hand. If he pulls back and won't let you, you pull back the food. Period.

Leave and try again a bit later. He is not going to starve himself, trust that one!

When he is hungry enough, this will overpower his fear of being pet.

You are not going to put your hand in front of him, you will make him want to come to you.

Once you achieve this, you're on the road.

Pets should progress into full body pets, then into swiping your hand under him as if to pick him up.

Remember as soon as he pulls back, so does the food.

Once you are able to pick him up in the crate, you will progress to picking him up and holding him against you.

You will need to learn how to properly scruff him too. This allows total control over a cat if done correctly.

YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER BE SCRATCHED UP AND BIT LIKE THAT AGAIN!

That's horrible!

Imagine a pile of M&M's on a table. Try to pick up as many as possible with your left hand assuming you are right handed.

Your fingers aren't separated, they are together with only a slight gap in between or the M&M's will slide in between your fingers right? You are using your thumb and fingers to swipe as much skin at the back of the neck as possible, then drawing your hand closed. Don't pinch a small amt, use that good amt of skin in your hands as control.

If the cat, when raised up to lift starts squirming around then use the floor, while holding the scruff, push the cat towards the floor, this gives TOTAL control.

Spend as much time as possible around him, talking out loud, singing, reading, whatever.

He will become a friend to you rather than some fearful little creature, he will learn all good things from you, and trust you.

When he is ready, he can come out of his crate and into one room. The idea is to slowly give him more space rather than so much out of his safe zone.

Remember this, anytime you see his progress stall or revert, go back a couple steps, this is normal.

 

[nacho]

Thanks catwoman.

I will let you know how I get one.

You mentioned raising the crate so he has height.  Is it ok if I place it on an old table we have or is that too high?

Also I am guessing I place water in the crate - hopefully he will not knock it over or put litter in it - or is it best to do this when I feed him.

And the main question I have is how do I get him in there in the first place?? 

I was thinking of placing his food in there over 2 days so he gets comfortable with going in and out of there and then I will close the door. That's if he will go in there in the first place.

Fingers crossed.

 

[catpack]

@Nacho, I use these crate bowls which you attach to a wire dog crate. It elevates the bowl so that litter doesn't get in and the cat is less likely to spill the water.

http://www.chewy.com/dog/midwest-stainless-steel-snapy-fit/dp/50139

I order mine from Chewy.com, though I'm sure you can get them from Amazon. I use the smallest bowl (1.25 cups but, the 2 cup bowl would be ok too.

Also, I ALWAYS use pellet litter when crating. Clay/corn clumping litter is too messy IMO. (I like Blue Buffalo's pellet litter, but you can use Yesterday's News or Feline Pine as well.)

 

[catwoman707]

 
Thanks catwoman.

I will let you know how I get one.

You mentioned raising the crate so he has height.  Is it ok if I place it on an old table we have or is that too high?

Also I am guessing I place water in the crate - hopefully he will not knock it over or put litter in it - or is it best to do this when I feed him.

And the main question I have is how do I get him in there in the first place?? 

I was thinking of placing his food in there over 2 days so he gets comfortable with going in and out of there and then I will close the door. That's if he will go in there in the first place.

Fingers crossed.

No, a table is perfect height.

Always need fresh water in the crate. Use a heavy bowl, preferably one that isn't rounded underneath, a bigger base works best to prevent spilling.

He may not even have an issue with this.

Does he run or hide from you?

If so, then yes you will need to put his food in there, might even need to rig it with a string tied to the top of the door on the outer edge and run the string through the cage so you can go away but spy, and pull the door shut when you are not close. Hold it snugly and latch the door.

It also helps to cover the back half of the cage for a bit.

Also, if the cage is used/borrowed, it may have the smell of a former animal in it, in which case you will want to spray it with any household cleaner and rinse well, allow to dry.

 

[nacho]

Well, I have all the cage set up and ready to roll.

I have left the door open today while we are out so he can explore it.  He did kinda go in there yesterday to see where his large soft  pillow  had gone and his favorite play rag.

Unfortunately the table was too small for the cage so I was unable to set it up that way. 

I have risen the area where his pillow goes as it's a big cage, so hopefully that will help.

Friday is the big day!!!

Funny we were playing last night and he actually let me touch his foot which is a first.

He also sat on the top of his scratch post for about 20 mins until my partner scared him.

Actually I think he  my partner is part of problem....his is very tall and I think little Nook feels threatened by him some how.  He is warming to me but as soon as Rich comes in the room he runs and hides.

Will report back soon

 

[catwoman707]

Great!

So one thing you might need to do too once caged is have your partner do some work with him once he is secure feeling and adjusted to the cage.

 

[nacho]

Well i didn't manage to get Nook in the crate yesterday but i really need to get him in today as his behavour is getting worst.
He had a pee on our sofa last night which i am not at all happy with. It's the first time he has done this since we've had him. I can't understand as we had a great play session last night and he was totally exhausted.
My partner would have him out the door if he knew about this so i had to pretend i tipped my tea.
I really hope this crate works.

 

[nacho]

Wow he's in!!!
I've had the crate out for 2 days now and he did eat his foid in there yesterday but i did not shut the door.
I covered it on towels so it looks like a cool hidout.
He was hiding this morning after the pee saga.
All i did was close the main door to the family room and got the hoover out.....which he hates. He ran straight in there and was cowering at the back so i just closed the door. Simple! !!
Now the rehab begins!

 

[mani]

Excellent!... Patience is so much the key here.

It is wonderful that @catwoman707 is guiding you through this.

Because Nook's behaviour is very much like a stray or semi-feral, I'm going to move this thread over there.

 

 

[catwoman707]

Yes, good job!

@Mani  is right, patience is key here.

You will have this cat for life, so you will want to remember this if/when you feel anxious.

Teach him well now, and the pattern sticks always.

Good luck, let me know anytime you have questions or updates on how things are going.

You really don't want the cage sitting on the floor, it's a deterrent and will only slow progress a bit.

Up to your level is what you are aiming for.

 

[nacho]

Well he does not look happy.

He was scared to start with, then he tried to get under his bed to hide. He's been all around the cage looking for a way out and has hissed at me when i approached him.
He's currently not interested in food but i guess he will in time.
I'm guessing this is normal on day one.
Not sure we have anything here we can raise the cage with. Will have to have a think to see what we could get to raise it.
I'm also guessing he's gonna be quite noisy in there tonight.

 

[catwoman707]

Cover the back half of the cage for a few, it helps get him used to it, sort of like how a box protects them.

Anything to raise him off the floor, it's important.

Person towering over him is very intimidating. That's why he hissed when you approached.

He might not eat the first day at all, maybe even going into 2 days, but he will NOT starve himself, trust me with that, I've had countless ferals, and I mean full on ferals who I had to trap and crate to get well, and they do hold out, but not to the point of HL/fatty liver disease so if someone chimes in with that concern, it's not going to happen. Besides he is far too young for that.

ONLY food from your hand, if he really takes a while to be willing to take it, then the first couple times he does, I would hold off on the other hand petting until he gets some food in his body. Then on to that part.

Remember, don't allow him to eat from your hand while near the back of the cage, make him come towards you at the front. He will.

At night if he cries, pull the sheet over the entire cage for now. Talk to him as often as you can, tell him why you're doing this, etc.

 

[nacho]

Half way through day 2 and he still looks extremely unhappy. He has hardly moved in hours. He has that angry cat look about him and just hisses at us.
Keep trying food but he is not tge slightest bit interested at the moment he's just angry.