Dear anyone with an "Indoors Only" cat.

[fleabags mom]

It's to protect the cats from high-rise syndrome:
High-Rise Syndrome: Protect Your Cat
High-Rise Syndrome
All they have to do is see a bird or insect fly by and they're out the window and crashing to the ground.

This is my point... they are following their instincts and hunting, something they would do outside.  People on ground floors have homes with screens too? The fact that they are extra strong screens to stop kitty clawing its way out tells me that's what the cat wants  - even the makers of the products think so. That's more than jumping out chasing.

 

[mservant]

 
This is my point... they are following their instincts and hunting, something they would do outside.  People on ground floors have homes with screens too? The fact that they are extra strong screens to stop kitty clawing its way out tells me that's what the cat wants  - even the makers of the products think so. That's more than jumping out chasing.

Sorry but my boy is most likely to fall out of an open window through the following acts, none of which are to do with hunting, he is just being a cat:

• Half hour crazy running sessions from one end of apartment top the other and jumping up on to cat trees at windows either end at high speed and poor braking skills - regularly falls off top perch and falls in to window pane....
• Jumping up at the window ledge then jumping up to the middle ledge of the window, not looking what is round about or aware of whether a window might be open or not.
• Falling asleep on cat tree platforms and rolling off when he starts to wake up - like he falls off the bed, sofa and anything else he hasn't paid attention to how close to the edge he's got when dosing.

Not only are my apartment windows at that awkward height where a cat doesn't quite right itself in time, but it isn't flat ground underneath, it is a small uneven area of steps, and walls which have lovely spiked railings on them.  Any descent would almost certainly be fatal.

He shows no interest in going outside and has a very rich and happy life feeling secure in his surroundings.  He is every bit a cat, he just happens to be a cat that doesn't like going out.  My home is his, he climbs and goes everywhere he wants to, nowhere in the apartment is out of bounds, and the more natural cat behaviour he exhibits while he lives here the happier I am (short of spraying but he is a neuter male and I do not expect that of him).

I am in the UK and I have an open mind about what is best for cats: it depends on the cat, the area you live, and what your home environment has to offer.  And it is very easy to find research to support either argument.  What I have seen little research on is the benefit of the very unnatural act of taking cats out on a leash.

We should respect each other's opinions and the decisions we make on behalf of our feline companions and not draw hard and fast conclusions from short snippets of information. 

 

[jcat]

It's just difference in attitude ( quality v quantity) and circumstances. For example we do not have the wild creatures you have, like coyotes for example so there is less danger there.

And yes, people who hate cats are evil, those people and cars I would say are the greatest threat to cats in the UK. But it is seen as cruel pretty much in the whole of Europe to keep cats indoors. I don't have a problem with it on a whole, but again, I think the cat should dictate a lot of it's behaviour - it does have instincts and needs. I know some folk, my neighbour for one who's cat only goes into the garden and never further which is the cats choice. I would say tho that with me being from the UK and having the attitude I have that it seems like a lot of folk in the USA are thinking they are doing the kindest thing by keeping in the cat, but to me it seems like the cat, keeping it in together with declawing, is more like a toy than an animal or that the home is kinda like a mini zoo.

I think you'll find that more and more, the trend in Europe is also towards indoor-only cats (I live in Germany). One reason is increased urbanization and therefore fewer detached homes with gardens, but another is fear for the cat's safety when at the mercy of humans. In our county, as in most of Germany, it's perfectly legal to shoot cats that are 200 meters/656 feet (in some länder 500 meters) from the closest inhabited house in order to prevent predation. It happens, too.

Cat population density also plays a role. The more cats that are roaming a small neighborhood, the more fights and resulting injuries there are. Our last cat was large and a real fighter who didn't like other cats, so I ended up having to take him out on a lead every day to protect the neighbors' cats. Our present cat also fights with other cats, and his adoption contract stipulates that he'll be kept as an indoor-only "singleton", again to protect other cats from him. He lost his first home because he didn't get along with the other resident cat, and the shelter tried unsuccessfully for several months to get him to accept other cats. It's simply not true that all cats can be members of multi-cat households as long as introductions are done properly. Shelters are full of cats that aren't able to fit in.

 

[fleabags mom]

 
Sorry but my boy is most likely to fall out of an open window through the following acts, none of which are to do with hunting, he is just being a cat:

• Half hour crazy running sessions from one end of apartment top the other and jumping up on to cat trees at windows either end at high speed and poor braking skills - regularly falls off top perch and falls in to window pane....
• Jumping up at the window ledge then jumping up to the middle ledge of the window, not looking what is round about or aware of whether a window might be open or not.
• Falling asleep on cat tree platforms and rolling off when he starts to wake up - like he falls off the bed, sofa and anything else he hasn't paid attention to how close to the edge he's got when dosing.

Not only are my apartment windows at that awkward height where a cat doesn't quite right itself in time, but it isn't flat ground underneath, it is a small uneven area of steps, and walls which have lovely spiked railings on them.  Any descent would almost certainly be fatal.

He shows no interest in going outside and has a very rich and happy life feeling secure in his surroundings.  He is every bit a cat, he just happens to be a cat that doesn't like going out.  My home is his, he climbs and goes everywhere he wants to, nowhere in the apartment is out of bounds, and the more natural cat behaviour he exhibits while he lives here the happier I am (short of spraying but he is a neuter male and I do not expect that of him).

I am in the UK and I have an open mind about what is best for cats: it depends on the cat, the area you live, and what your home environment has to offer.  And it is very easy to find research to support either argument.  What I have seen little research on is the benefit of the very unnatural act of taking cats out on a leash.

We should respect each other's opinions and the decisions we make on behalf of our feline companions and not draw hard and fast conclusions from short snippets of information. 

a, Fair enough - you know your cat. My cat also has a bed and I open the window for him in the summer. He never falls out, not even close. We have two different cats.

b, Excellent, he's a cat that happens to not like going out. I have said all along in this that we should let the cat dictate largely to it's lifestyle, what would you have done if your cat was absolutely desperate to go out, had behaviour problems and was miserable?  I have told the story about my cat & his unhappy indoor life. I have not told anyone to stop keeping theirs in, just to listen to their cats and their needs.

c, And yes, we should respect opinions. I do not feel like I have not respected anyone else's opinion here. If this has been misunderstood then that is not my intention, I have simply told my story and raised a few points from my own experiences.  I questioned the wisdom of people presuming that if their cat has never been outside, it will not miss it. This is not true, my own cat tells me this. A view that is shared by his previous owner, although she couldn't bring herself to let him outside. She gave him to me knowing that I would.

The strongest thing I said that keeping a cat indoors & declawing it makes me feel unhappy for the cat - and it does make me feel like it is a toy, not an animal. An animal that has as much right to live the way nature intended as much as you or I.

 

[fleabags mom]

I think you'll find that more and more, the trend in Europe is also towards indoor-only cats (I live in Germany). One reason is increased urbanization and therefore fewer detached homes with gardens, but another is fear for the cat's safety when at the mercy of humans. In our county, as in most of Germany, it's perfectly legal to shoot cats that are 200 meters/656 feet (in some länder 500 meters) from the closest inhabited house in order to prevent predation. It happens, too.

Cat population density also plays a role. The more cats that are roaming a small neighborhood, the more fights and resulting injuries there are. Our last cat was large and a real fighter who didn't like other cats, so I ended up having to take him out on a lead every day to protect the neighbors' cats. Our present cat also fights with other cats, and his adoption contract stipulates that he'll be kept as an indoor-only "singleton", again to protect other cats from him. He lost his first home because he didn't get along with the other resident cat, and the shelter tried unsuccessfully for several months to get him to accept other cats. It's simply not true that all cats can be members of multi-cat households as long as introductions are done properly. Shelters are full of cats that aren't able to fit in.

But this makes perfect sense! I would keep a cat indoors too if people went around shooting them and its legal.  How on earth is that legal btw? What a shame.

 

[pocho]

Here in the States you will find a schizophrenic view of cats even from within pro cat peoples/groups. It is essential for the TNR movement to declare cats as a natural part of the environment and capable survivors. For the sake of the ferals they release. To get people at ease with them as much as squirrels or raccoons outside. But then again, also essential to call them domesticated gone wild, the fault of previous owners who left them 'homeless'. The homeless victim and offspring who roams the streets because people dont care. But not Wild like a raccoon or they would be subject to possible hunting seasons. Then of course the bird conservationist who portray them as the source of all extinction of every animal that ever existed. I could go on and on with all the different view points based in agendas...but this thread is about individual cats, individual situation/environments and the choices people have to make. I say make your choice based on what you actually observe in your cat and your environment and use your own brain. They are many scare tactics and bias 'data'. Even science can be bought. Part of the decision surely will be informed by looking at the animal and how it was created and the way it see and response to the world. Like I have said, my one cat does suffer because I have no way of offering the outside to her. It isnt easy to accept but true.

 

[fleabags mom]

Pocho, thanks for your last post, interesting. And yes, each individual cat's needs should be weighed up and environment, I totally agree. I do think it's fair to say tho that there is a trend in the USA to keep cats indoors without thinking everything through first, same as in the UK letting them out and it's interesting to read why you think it's so in the USA. The trend here in the UK is people think it is cruel to keep them indoors. Funny how being in a different country can change so much.  I guess everyone feels passionate about their views, which is wonderful, keeps us talking and thinking!  Talking & thinking changes things, like the trend of declawing in the USA. People start to question what they are doing :-)

Personally I think that we keep cats indoors for our own needs. We humans are obsessed by living as long as possible - something that is not really shared by animals. I do not think they have any concept of wanting to live to old age. I think we keep cats in to have our beloved pet with us for as long as possible. Of course this is understandable, totally and utterly understandable! But to us, not to cats and I think the cat is going to lose out in this set up unless it chooses to be an indoor cat.  Sure, can be loved, cared for and of course happy, but there will be something missing there IMO. It's their instincts, that can't change, it's the same instinct that makes them play with their owners.  If someone told me that I could live to be 130 if I never set foot outside the door again I would not want to live to be 130.

 

[pocho]

 
Pocho, thanks for your last post, interesting. And yes, each individual cat's needs should be weighed up and environment, I totally agree. I do think it's fair to say tho that there is a trend in the USA to keep cats indoors without thinking everything through first, same as in the UK letting them out and it's interesting to read why you think it's so in the USA. The trend here in the UK is people think it is cruel to keep them indoors. Funny how being in a different country can change so much.  I guess everyone feels passionate about their views, which is wonderful, keeps us talking and thinking!  Talking & thinking changes things, like the trend of declawing in the USA. People start to question what they are doing :-)

Personally I think that we keep cats indoors for our own needs. We humans are obsessed by living as long as possible - something that is not really shared by animals. I do not think they have any concept of wanting to live to old age. I think we keep cats in to have our beloved pet with us for as long as possible. Of course this is understandable, totally and utterly understandable! But to us, not to cats and I think the cat is going to lose out in this set up unless it chooses to be an indoor cat.  Sure, can be loved, cared for and of course happy, but there will be something missing there IMO. It's their instincts, that can't change, it's the same instinct that makes them play with their owners.  If someone told me that I could live to be 130 if I never set foot outside the door again I would not want to live to be 130.

I look at quality of life in similar terms. On any given night you will see me out in busy roads naked chasing cars down, why? Because its fun as hell! JUST KIDDING catsite people. 

I do believe it is a movement with agendas from many sides, some have good intentions some not so good. I believe this because you see a generational disagreement here. Older people are more likely to be fine with cats let outside. Even books before a certain date written in the U.S. will say it is cruel to keep a cat inside exclusively. I can bet what their opinion will be by the hairstyle dates...

 

[mservant]

Allthetime, I hope you managed to see your cat today, and your visit has helped you to reach some decision about whether you are going to offer her a new home.  Look forward to hearing how your 'meeting' went.

 

[laralove]

Perhaps I should feel lucky! My Oliver shows no interest whatsoever in going outside, despite being a feral rescue. He is also afraid of other animals, so I don't know that I would be able to successfully add another cat to the family. He absolutely LOVES playing with his toy mice, though only the realistic looking ones. He had very colorful toys, which he played with until I bought him this little gray mouse. Now he won't touch any toy that doesn't look real. Anyway, he'll go nuts playing with these mice, it's hilariously cute. He's also got a cat tree, but he only uses it to get up into the window. I suppose it just depends on the cat.

 

[laurag]

Funny, I've lived in the states my whole life and I am COMPLETELY unaware of the insidious "anti-cat" agenda. Good lord.

I keep my cats inside because it is safer for the cats. Cats are not tigers. They are not panthers. They are domestic animals.  It's great if you live on a 300 acre ranch with no coyotes or other predators who would disturb the bucolic heaven that cats would otherwise enjoy as the wild beasts they are. After all there's little difference between a house cat and a panther, surely.

 

[sillywabbit]

Laura G, I tend to agree. When Robin showed up on my porch, he was one of the feral menagerie living on the hill behind my then-house. I kept telling myself " No cat!!" But I knew what he was against: a busy road just a few feet away and hill people of the type who go out and shoot cats, just for target practice. Maybe in some areas cats have a chance. But not around there. Even if I fed him , kept him in a box , and got his shots and fixed , he wouldn't have lived long, or well. Not around there. After I took him in, he'd sit on the windowsill staring out at night . One day I looked. What I saw made me nauseous...garbage bags in my neighbors yard and through the night it was their dogs going through the trash, then raccoons, then their cats (including Robins mother ), then raccoons again, then some kind of rat , then possums, then dogs , other cats, raccoons. It was like they fed their animals through garbage bags. Nothing stopping a " pet" cat from being one of them. How glad I was that Robbie was safe and sound inside, far from disease, rabid raccoons, cars, and the elements.

 

[pocho]

 
Funny, I've lived in the states my whole life and I am COMPLETELY unaware of the insidious "anti-cat" agenda. Good lord.

I keep my cats inside because it is safer for the cats. Cats are not tigers. They are not panthers. They are domestic animals.  It's great if you live on a 300 acre ranch with no coyotes or other predators who would disturb the bucolic heaven that cats would otherwise enjoy as the wild beasts they are. After all there's little difference between a house cat and a panther, surely.

Footnote 1 - Modern Cats: Wild or Mild?

Is the modern domestic cat still basically a wild animal?

The proliferation of feral cat colonies demonstrates that modern domestic cats retain enough of their wild ancestry to successfully revert to the wild state and to create self-sustaining populations of wholly wild cats, identical to their domestic cousins in every way except for temperament and, over a suitable time period, a return to the wild type as human-selected traits are removed through natural selection. They remain genetically similar enough to F s silvestris/grampia and F s lybica to form fully fertile hybrids with these wild species.

This does not mean that every individual cat can revert to the wild state. Many pedigree cats have been bred into forms unsuited to the wild state - too short noses which prevent hunting, excessive fur which mats and becomes a liability, too little fur so that hypothermia is a hazard, excessive docility or skeletal deformities. Other individuals have had survival traits surgically removed i.e. declawing. In addition, the "wild state" in many areas is full of man-made hazards.

Many behaviours of pet cats are manifestations of their wild instincts e.g. scent marking, hunting toys. Many outdoor-going cats display a full range of wild behaviours e.g. hunting and marking/protecting territory. In indoor cats, instincts frustrated by close confinement can be redirected into problem behaviours which conflict with their attraction as a pet e.g. middening, attacking ankles. It is understandable that humans want to keep pet cats out of harm's way, but unless the captive environment is enriched, the cat acts out its natural instincts as best it can. Some cats retain more wild behaviours than others which is why not all cats are suited to the indoor-only life forced upon them by the human environment.

Whether we like to admit it or not, our domestic cat companions are essentially still wild at heart and in their genes and instincts; something which keeps pet behaviourists in business.

From- THE DOMESTICATION OF THE CAT
Sarah Hartwell, 2001-2012

SURELY!

 

[Anne]

Lots of great advice and an interesting discussion.

Just wanted to add a few links, for the benefit of the original question by @allthetime  -

Making Your Home and Garden Safe For Your Cat

Harness and Leash Training for Cats

Building a Cat Enclosure

Cat Enclosures

Cat Play - The Rules of the Game

These are all articles in our article section. They include ideas on keeping an indoors-only cat happy and thriving, sometimes by allowing limited/supervised access to the great outdoors.

 

[allthetime]

Wow, thankyou all for all the replies!

We met her last night and she's absolutely lovely. A tiny little girl, but a real cutie!

We brought her home and it only took an hour for her to have a pee, have a drink and have some dinner, so I'm taking that as a good sign that the move wasn't too traumatising for her!

Here she is!

Saffy.jpg

• allthetime
• Dec 9, 2013

I've taken the day off to spend time with her and make sure she settles. She spent the whole night sniffing and scenting everything, so she's pretty tired today! 

 

[mservant]

  

              

             

      TUXEDO!

She is lovely. So now you get the endless questions - how old, what name, is she spayed, have you taught her to sit yet................ 

Congratulations.  You enjoy her and love her and watch her develop as she settles in to her new furever home.

 

[fleabags mom]

She is cute!! Enjoy getting to know each other and have fun! :-)

 

[laurag]

I've taken the day off to spend time with her and make sure she settles. She spent the whole night sniffing and scenting everything, so she's pretty tired today! 

She's very cute!

 

[barbh]

She is adorable, look forward to hearing more about her and seeing more pictures as she settles in.

 

[pocho]

She is so so beautiful. Sorry about the thread, you ask a simple question and get an endless debate. Kinda funny though