CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with

[mews2much]

What pills are you having problems with.
Coco will not use pill pockets anymore because summer she bit into a Baytril.

 

[lovesmycats]

Azodyl.......

 

[mews2much]

I wrap Coco in a blanket before I give her those.
I open her moth and drop the pill as far back as I can get it then hold her moth shut so she had to swallow it.
She has spit them out on me before.
Maybe you can do it that way.

 

[thrivingpets]

Originally Posted by LovesMyCats

Her new numbers were worse.

BUN: 85
Creatinine: 4.9
Phosphorus: 11

I've been mixing FF in with her Hill's k/d wet food. I wonder if this caused the increase even though she has a phosphorus binder mixed with it.

How much Aluminum Hydroxide are you administering?

 

[pookie-poo]

Originally Posted by ThrivingPets

How much Aluminum Hydroxide are you administering?

I'm not totally convinced that she is using ALOH powder. Her vet recommended Epakitin for a phosphorus binder. The following is my response to her:

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

Yes, I believe you need to get a second opinion. Hallie has a CRITICAL serum phosphorus of 16.1 (normal is below 6.) She needs to be on an effective phosphorus binder (and in my opinion, immediately!) This is a quote from the phosphorus binder page of the CRF supply site. http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...es/binders.htm

Epakitin/Ipakitine. Ipakitine has been marketed in Europe for awhile and its twin product, Epakitin, is now being heavily marketed in the US as a "nutritional supplement." This product's active binding ingredients are calcium carbonate and chitosan. Tests have shown the calcium carbonate binders are inferior to the aluminum-based products. Several well-known CRF researchers advised that this product should not be used in cats with high normal or elevated calcium due to the risk of throwing such cats into hypercalcemia by adding calcium carbonate to their daily meds. Dr. Larry Nagode of Ohio State University Veterinary College advises that the product should not be used with cats that currently get calcitriol nor cats that may get it in the future, again because of the risk of hypercalcemia. Epatikin is being marketed directly to vets and more as a renal protectorant/preventive than as a treatment for elevated phosphorus. I've received emails from folks in Germany and Switzerland about Ipakitine being prescribed for their early CRF cats - they report it seems to have helped their cats' appetite and energy. None of these cats had elevated phosphorus. Dosage recommendation is based on weight alone (1g/5kg body weight given orally in the morning and the evening mixed with food) without regard to phosphorus levels -- this further suggests that the product is intended for cats in early CRF and/or CRF cats with phosphorus in normal bounds rather than cats with elevated phosphorus where dosage is normally adjusted based on phosphorus values.
*All red highlights are mine.*

It's great that her BUN and Creatinine have come down so well. I do think that she needs to have her electrolytes checked...now especially, since she's on Epakitin. Epakitin can cause an elevation in serum Calcium levels. Her serum Phosphorus level needs to be continually monitored, and as Pat mentioned, you need to stay on top of her serum Potassium level, and supplement when necessary. You might want to call around to other vets in your area, and ask if they are up-to-date with the latest/most current treatment regimens for CRF, and if they are comfortable treating a 'high numbers' CRF cat. Here's a link that may be able to help you find someone in your area. http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/vets/index.html

We would LOVE an update on your sweet HALLIE!!!

 

[mews2much]

Is it ok to mix the Aluminum Hydroxide with water?
I am uses the powered from Thriving Pets.
My Coco will not eat the can food at all so putting the powder is not working.
She will eat the gravy off the Royal Canin.

 

[pookie-poo]

If your cat is easy to pill, you can fill empty gelcaps (either a #3 or a #2) and give her a pill full of ALOH powder as soon as she's done eating. I used to give it this way, but now my girls will eat the canned food like normal, if the Aluminum Hydroxide gel powder is mixed well into the food.

This link tells you about empty gel caps:
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...es/gelcaps.htm

And a capsule size chart:
http://www.torpac.com/small_animal_capsule.htm

This is where I purchase mine:
http://www.capsuline.com/index.php?cPath=1_5_6

Most people use #4 and #3 gelcaps, but I also have some #2's. Anything bigger than a number 2 is probably too large for a small to average size cat.

 

[mews2much]

Thanks for the links.

 

[misskalamata]

I've been doing a little bit of research on kidney failure and how to prevent it. While reading about phosphorus binders, I wondered whether giving non-CRF cats small doses of phosphorus binders once they hit age 10-12 could possibly help prevent renal failure (or whether it would harm the cats). Is phosphorus an important nutrient for cats?

It seems that most cats aren't diagnosed as CRF until they have lost most of their kidney function...what if we could start treating them earlier, when their kidneys are just beginning to decline? I don't want to feed my cats low phosphorus food to prevent CRF if it also means low protein food. Could phosphorus binders possibly work as a preventative? (I do realize there's no 100% way to prevent CRF)

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

I've been doing a little bit of research on kidney failure and how to prevent it. While reading about phosphorus binders, I wondered whether giving non-CRF cats small doses of phosphorus binders once they hit age 10-12 could possibly help prevent renal failure (or whether it would harm the cats). Is phosphorus an important nutrient for cats?

It seems that most cats aren't diagnosed as CRF until they have lost most of their kidney function...what if we could start treating them earlier, when their kidneys are just beginning to decline? I don't want to feed my cats low phosphorus food to prevent CRF if it also means low protein food. Could phosphorus binders possibly work as a preventative? (I do realize there's no 100% way to prevent CRF)

The tests do not show CRF until approx 75% of function is gone ( realize that many live yrs healthy till about 90% is gone )

NO treating ahead will not work and likely will cause many other problems in the kitty ... I personally would not use an aluminum binder as to me it is a poison, I treated my RB Kandie with diet and supplements( whole food and jt ) for over 4 yrs after a stage 2 diagnosis ..

 

[misskalamata]

Thanks, Sharky, for correcting my ignorance

What's "jt"?

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by MissKalamata

Thanks, Sharky, for correcting my ignorance

What's "jt"?

joint...lol... my shorthand is unique

 

[pookie-poo]

On the surface, it would seem that limiting the phosphorus content of our kitty's foods, before they show signs of CRF, would be a great idea. Controlling serum phosphorus levels appears to be the best way to slow the progression of the disease, once it's been diagnosed. If only it was that simple! Phosphorus in a necessary nutrient under normal circumstances; ie: normal kidney function. The Calcium/Phosphorus ratio is directly responsible for how much circulating phosphorus is in the blood, and how much Calcium is deposited into, or leached out of the bones and teeth. It is also a vital component of cell function and energy production.

Here are a couple of links that you might find interesting, about Calcium and Phosphorus, and their functions in the body. The first is human medicine, but it applies to all living beings. The second is about Calcium/Phosphorus ratio, Calcitriol and Phosphorus.

http://www.natural-health-informatio...hosphorus.html

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...P=A&A=2622&S=2

P.S. Your question was not ignorant at all! It is very insightful, and shows that you've done some research and thought about this quite a bit! Good for you! Being proactive about our cat's health is the most important thing of all!!!

 

[mybabies]

Originally Posted by Pat

Bumping this up.

I do too! My Most Beloved precious Princess Missy was diagnosed with this a few years ago and due to having her teeth pulled (before she got CRF) to stomatitis she also refused to eat.

I was syringe feeding her and suddenly on a routine bloodtest I discovered she was slightly anemic and dehydrated and her numbers had started to climb. THEN she got sick due to too much food being syringed at one time AND to the fluids. I truly thought she was dying but my vets convince me to give her pepcid and reglan.

NOW I find Reglan can cause neurological problems and a medicine called ondansetron is better for nausea and zantac is better for acid stomach problems.

AS well as the wonderful feline_CRF_support group on yahoogroups I found the feline_CRF_INFO_ group on yahoogroups. IT is owned by the lady who has the http://www.felinecrf.org/just_diagnosed.htm website and BOTH these groups have been truly God sent in helping me with my Missy.

I would suggest you all to to the above mentioned website and read It as well as any other info you can.

PLEASE, Mods, GET THIS INFORMATION out where EVERYBODY can read it.

 

[mybabies]

Originally Posted by kittymonsters

zoe had her first bloodwork post starting calcitriol. I am very pleased.
Her bun is up, but her creatinine is down.

Bun 55
creat 2.8

so far her electrolytes are still good. Calcium ok, and phosphorus 4.4
plus her weight went from 8.7 to 9.3

An unusual thing is that she has no protein in her urine. Her s.g. Is 1.016 but her microalbumin test was 0 and her upc was 0.1

anyone else's crf kitties have no protein in their urine?

Where do i find on the blood test if there is protein in the urine?

-------------------, however his urine microalbumin is 4.8, which is not good. He just got retested tuesday with another microalbumin test and a upc ( this is 2 1/2 weeks since the first test)

had anyone caught a kitty this early? I am curious about the possible treatment protocol for him.

What is this test? I dont see it on missy"s bloodwork?

I feed homemade food and i called dr. Pierson from catinfo.org and she gave me a specialized diet for zoe that conan and the others can eat. The phosphorus content is about 0.6%. So for now i am ok there until phosphorus binders are needed.

can this food you feed be blended so it can go through a syinge? I am very interested in it.

 

[mybabies]

Originally Posted by LovesMyCats

She's been getting them, but I haven't done them myself yet. When I went to pick her up Saturday the vet had me stick her. She acted like I've never seen her do before. The vet ended up doing the fluids. I took her to the emergency vet Sunday and they did her fluids. I took her back to the vet today to get blood work done and they gave her fluids. I'm going to try tomorrow. I'm having problems with her taking her pills. I've put it in her food. Got pill pockets. I've tried putting it in her mouth and closing it and blowing on her face. She won't take it.

WHEN you do the fluids get everything perpared first. Once the needle is on the line THEN open the drip and allow some fliuids to flow out and MAKE SURE the fluids are warm - not hot but warm as they tolorate that better. THEN see if you can get your baby to lie across your lap. Put one hand in front of them and anything you can think of to keep them from moving PULL up the skin around where a saddle would be placed (and never in the same place twice in a row) and gently insert a TERUMO needle size 20 or even 21 gauge. into the tent you made of the pulled up skin. Make sure the needle is only in the skin and gently re open the valve to let the fluids flow - not too much at a time and NEVER squeeze the bag.

AS for pilling; my Kotton SCREAMS so much when I pill her (she is a Siamese!!!!) that the pills either fall out or get swallowed by accident. I sit on my knees with her in front of me facing to my right (I am right handed). I gently open her mouth and pop a buttered pill in and then blow until I see her swallow. SOIMETIMES I do find the pill has been spat out but most time it works. TRY to follow the pill with water to help it go down.

 

[mews2much]

My Coco has to have blood tests in a few weeks.
I hope her numbers are better.
She was given 5 months to live last Jan.
The fluids are so easy to do.
They are expensive though.

 

[mybabies]

Originally Posted by mews2much

My Coco has to have blood tests in a few weeks.
I hope her numbers are better.
She was given 5 months to live last Jan.
The fluids are so easy to do.
They are expensive though.

FIND a pharmacy in your city/town that will order them for you! Walgreens or Walmart or? Then get an RX from your vet for them and take it to the pharmacy.

IF Missy gets better enough for me to buy a case that is what I am going to do. I did it years ago with my late Corkie.

 

[kittymonsters]

Originally Posted by MyBabies

can this food you feed be blended so it can go through a syinge? I am very interested in it.

Hi MyBabies,

for some reason your entire post to me won't quote so I will try to answer your questions here without the original post.

For the protein in the urine that isn't on standard bloodwork, but would need a urinalysis to determine. The Microalbumin test is a specialized test to detect very small amounts of protein in the urine, however at this time there is not agreement on how useful this test is.

The other urine test is the UPC (urine protein/creatine ratio) Generally this is one is thought to be a better indicator of renal failure.

Both of these tests are run on the urine and have to be requested specifically. They each cost about $50-60 each.

My reason for being concerned over the protein in the urine is because the research I have found indicates kitties with protein wasting do worse than those without it. Also high blood pressure can cause protein loss in the urine and can cause kidney damage.

Having seen three vets I still can't get a concrete answer on all this. It is a "wait and watch" thing they say. This is because my kitties urine specific gravity is normal.

So he has protein in his urine and a just high outside of normal BUN and Creating in his bloodwork, but a normal Urine specific gravity. All very confusing!


As to the food. I use a meat grinder specifically so they have pieces to chew on. I think however you could probably use a food processor and add some extra water to make it thin enough to go through a syringe.

The biggest thing is getting the chicken itself blended down to a pate consistency.

 

[dusty's mom]

I have a somewhat related question. My cat absolutely won't eat kidney diet food. I am giving her calcitriol 2.5 ml 2x a week per vet's prescription. I have found on the net Aluminum Hydroxide Dried Gel Powder USP, Gallipot, 500 gram Jar @ $43.00. Has anyone purchased it this way, and do you know how much to mix with food?